Renewed criticism in the wake of the baltimore highprofile incidents. Were asking our viewers to weigh in on broken windows policing. Is it effective . Why or why not . For those who think it is not effective, a special line this morning for Law Enforcement. You can catch up with us on social media twitter, facebook or email us at journal cspan. Org. Talking about broken windows policing, best known for its implantation in new york city. It is a concept were Police Crackdown on petty crimes like a dualism and unruly behavior on vandalism and unruly behavior to keep larger crimes from happening. We will be talking more about it over the course of war to five minutes. 45 minutes. Do you think it is effective . That line for Law Enforcement broken windows policing is the subject of this npr story. More debate over broken windows policing. Police departments across the country are under pressure to rethink their most aggressive tactics. The story notes it is not just flashpoints like ferguson and baltimore. The new York Police Department is on the defensive about its longstanding approach known as rocha and windows policing broken windows policing. It has been copied all over the country but now critics in new york say broken windows needs fixing. Detractors say mostly poor or people of color are ticketed for quality of life crimes like riding a bike on the sidewalk, inking on the street, jumping a subway turnstile or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Broken windows policing is the topic. Several commentary pieces from individuals over the last week in light of the incidence of unrest in baltimore. Michael goodwins piece, he proves the need for broken windows policing. He writes that baltimore should be a wakeup call. Handcuffing the cops ultimately leads to more Violent Crime and not less and ands up with the National Guard in the streets like a war zone. He goes on to note that what america is witnessing is what happens every day in neighborhoods under police. Violence spirals out of control and doesnt stop until someone stops it. We want to hear from our viewers on this concept of broken windows policing. It is known for a time in baltimore as zerotolerance policing. The former governor and mayor former governor of maryland who used to be mayor of baltimore. Gabriel is up first in laurel maryland. Caller my idea is [indiscernible] when i get there, that is crazy. The attitude of whoever has the guns has the power is the boss is also increasing the problem. It does not change anything. It only creates enmity between the police force and the populace. The best thing to do is to understand the people. They are supposed to be like leaders. I dont know if the police force teaches how to be a team member and how to be a leader. You cannot get anything done [inaudible] host for those who think rocha and window policing is not effective, broken window policing is not effective. Caller i had an experience in 1988. I was only 20 years old. I was smoking a joint and this cop came and beat me up. Broke my jaw. I kept thinking, why are you beating me up . For smoking weed . I have stopped since then but they took me to jail and locked me up for five months. They were saying you will do 20 years for distribution. This officer told me i sold him drugs. Lying. They threatened me so much i had to plead guilty. I pled guilty to something i didnt even do. It had a negative impact on my life for the past 20 years. They had me plead guilty to distribution. I was so scared that they would the prosecutor told me if you fire us we go to court. The judge will throw the book at you. I think the corruption is not even about race. It is the attitude from the police. Once i have a gun and i have a badge i can do what the hell i want. Host comments on our Facebook Page as well if you want to follow the conversation. Facebook. Com cspan. Stephen writes that zerotolerance policing, broken windows policing helped clean up new york city times square. It was a combat zone until this was implemented. Democrats for liberty rights in places like new york city, it has led to stop and frisk which disproportionately targets minorities. President obama talked about trust in the Police Department in his appearance last night on the David Letterman show. Here is a bit. President obama for far too long, for decades, a situation where too many communities do not have a relationship of trust with the police. If you have a handful of police not doing the right thing that makes the job tougher for the others. It creates an environment in the community where they feel that rather than being protected and served, they are the targets of arbitrary arrests or stops. Our job has to be to rebuild trust. We put forward a Task Force Made of Police Officers, it also young activists protesting, they came up with terrific recommendations about collecting data on what happens when there is a shooting involving police. What are we doing in terms of things like body cameras . There are practical concrete things we can do to make the system work better. This is something i reminded people of the other day this is not just a policing problem. What you have are pockets of poverty and lack of opportunity lack of education, all across the country. Too often, we ignore those pockets until something happens. Then we act surprised. The tv cameras come in. We put the Police Officers in a tough spot where we say, just contain the problem. So if Young African american men are being shot, but it is not affecting us, we will paper that over. Host that was president obama on cbss late show, today Loretta Lynch is scheduled to go to baltimore. She will be meeting with city officials, members of congress and faith and community leaders. She will be joined by the head of the Civil Rights Division along with director of the office of policing services. He has been on this program talking about that Justice Department program. This morning for the next halfhour we are talking about this concept of broken windows policing. Jim says it is effective. Caller good morning from beautiful new castle, delaware. It works. Look at the murder rates in new york city. There were weeks where there was nobody killing anybody. Since the riots in baltimore we have had eight deaths and 15 shootings because people feel the cops are backing off. You cannot let people put graffiti up cannot let them litter or urinate on the side of the building. Things like that have to stop. It is the little crimes that turned into a crimes. When people feel like they can get away with these little injustices, they feel like they can get away with bigger crimes. Most of the problem if you ask the cops is because of the drug trade. It is your identity politics this summer and i think the cops should just stay on these arrowheads and tell them, you have to act right or you will get in trouble. Host the police chief in washington d. C. Had an interview with fred hiatt of the Washington Post and she talked about why she didnt think zerotolerance policing would work today. I want to redo what she said and get your thoughts. She said, what we forget his neighborhoods with the most crime are also the neighborhoods with the most victims and most witnesses. If you storm and with zero tolerance you turn all of the victims and witnesses against you. What you think about her thoughts . I think that people who do not trust the police probably have a reason not to trust the police. Lets play identity politics. You have the best people and the criminals and the people who are not criminals. If you have nothing to worry about in the record, why would you not cooperate. Most of these people in new york who they were arresting with zero tolerance were repeat offenders already. They dont what i go back to jail but havent learned that you have to act right if you are from new york or whatever. Host speaking of new york city. Tom rob leslie is a columnist for Staten Island live and he has a piece. Not the time to back away from broken windows. He writes in that peace that the effectiveness of the broken windows strategy is obvious to anyone who is live in this city for the last 40 years maybe others have to learn the hard way. I dont remember new york of the 1970s or 1980s. Maybe they need to see what happens when criminals feel bolder about breaking the law. Vincent in new york city, brooklyn, new york. Youre on the washington journal. Caller thank you for taking my call. I am a member of the coalition against broken windows. Mr. Braxton is the grandfather of the philosophy. Host the police chief, for those who do not know who he is. Caller commissioner bratton. He is the grandfather of that philosophy. In his mind, he justifies that position of oppression and victimization of the citizens. When he talks about crime reduction, he conveniently avoids fax that are critical to crime reduction. He is advocating for a policy that proves to the an attack on cultural norms and is a basis for the state Supreme Courts finding that it is unconstitutional. The unequal application for sun black and brown people and the working poor. It is not the responsibility of the Police Commissioner to make laws but only to enforce them. Some of the things that he incidentally leaves out about crime, and most the people who lived educated by the fact, the reduction of drug use and crack epidemic that happened during the late 70s and 80s and into the 90s is that the direct effect of crime reduction. The three decades affirm the parallel between drug use and crime. Any Law Enforcement officer worth their oath will confirm it takes a Community Working with the police to truly reduce crime. Host what is the coalition against broken windows . Caller it is a litany of community organizations, people educators, civic Organizations CommunityBoard Members divergent groups helping to reduce violence. Somehow, all of those methodologies to reduce crime are being ignored and we are looking for the police to solve social problems. Police are not designed to solve social problems. The triggers that drive crime are no jobs, Mental Health issues homelessness those are the triggers that drive crime for the socalled quality of life that mr. Bratton and the mayor are advocating for. People from Staten Island and people in those areas, they do not have those challenges and cannot relate. They were to draw an opinion that is ludicrous. Host vincent in brooklyn, new york in this debate over broken windows policing has picked up in light of recent highprofile police runins. We want to hear from our viewers on this concept of broken windows policing. If youre interested in where the term comes from, the economist talks a bit on this in a piece they wrote on it earlier this year. It refers to an observation made in the early 80s by a criminologist and james wilson a social scientists that when a buildings windows are open and unrepaired the rest of the windows will soon broken as well. An unrepaired window is a symbol that no one cares so breaking or windows costs nothing. They found in environments where disorderly behavior goes unchecked, or prostitutes visibly ply their trade against passersby, more serious crime flourishes. The theory is supported by a number of randomized experiments. Researchers at the university in the netherlands found people were twice as likely to steal an envelope filled with money if it was sticking out of a mailbox covered in graffiti. What this means is when police keep streets order line orderly and punish small crimes, people will behave in orderly ways. Alice is up next in st. Petersburg, florida. On the line for those who think it is effective. Caller it is effective but at what cost . At the cost of civil rights of my fellow citizens. This sundays st. Petersburg tribune had an interview of the outgoing chief of police in tampa where they most recently exposed that eight out of 10 bicycle tickets are given to black people and that the majority of the tickets were written in black neighborhoods. If you look at the map, the wealthy neighborhoods that have one traffic citation am a that citation went to a black person. It is for civil rights. I am fed up with it. My parents dont feel it. The outgoing chief of police doesnt even feel it. She talks in her interview and it glared at me about cops having bad days. If they think they can come up with better ideas and change tactics it is a tactic to over police black people. They cannot breathe. If we keep just looking at black communities and thinking we have to fix it, look in the mirror white people. Look in the mirror america. Stop the war on poor people. Legalize marijuana, lift the economy, give us jobs. It is awful. If you are not into a good job right now you are a poor person. There is nothing in between. There is no letter to climb up. I have worked my entire life and i see this day in and day out. Host what do you do in st. Petersburg florida . Caller i am getting ready to go back to israel tomorrow because i cannot get health care. I am disabled. I cannot get obamacare because i do not make enough money. They did not expand medicaid in florida. I dont have young children. Even though i am disabled i cannot get to a doctor who will say you are disabled. I am leaving the country to get a colonoscopy because i have polyps. I thought i could get obamacare. I voted for him twice. I think health care is the number one issue. I think we need to indict the criminal justice system. Our leaders need to be taught. They dont care about thus. They think corporations are people. My fellow citizens have been suffering my entire life. When i think of the idea of that boy a young man, younger than my son, inc. Treated like that on the street and killed by the police in the van. I know what they did to him. White people in our society as a whole cannot look at this and think we need to fix ourselves and stop thinking about fixing the people and black communities it is a lie. Host we are talking about this concept of row can windows policing broken windows policing. What are your thoughts, if you think it is effective 202 7488001. And at 202 7488002 we would especially like to hear the thoughts of Law Enforcement personnel. For the next 20 minutes or so here on code the washington journal. Lydia has been waiting on that line. Good morning. I am actually one of those people who has been working on Police Accountability in texas and minnesota. I have lived here in minnesota since 1988. I grew up in the suburbs. Then i moved to the innercity. I live in code dallas texas and houston. What people do not get in the suburbs is what it is like to get live when the police are constantly harassing you. White people, have you ever been asked to show proof of purchase of a bicycle you are on . I bet you havent. This is one of the broken windows policies for black people. Here in minneapolis we have a local ordinance against lurking. 99 of the people arrested on this are black men. Lurking is a vague excuse to arrest somebody. I know of africanamericans who have been harassed because they are sitting on their own porch on a hot summer night. I myself have experienced this in small ways in houston and alice. Dallas. I was vaguely harassed for being on the street at 9 00 because the prop cops thought i might be a prostitute and i was coming home from my job with a buttondown shirt and loafers. I would say i am walking down the street by myself coming home from work that i was a woman alone on the street. This happen for years. When i was a young woman in my 20s. When i was married to a latino man we were regularly ask where are you going and what are you doing . Or i was asked if the guy was harassing me. People should also understand as a crime victim, ive been told when i was mugged and my arm was almost broken, well, what do you expect. Look at the neighborhood you live in. Nothing was done. People have to understand this constant lowlevel harassment, it does not help crime. What it does is alienate the community from Law Enforcement. This is part of why people do not want to cooperate. Host i want to get some Law Enforcement perspective on some of those comments from lydia. Ray is on the line for members of Law Enforcement and coclinton, pennsylvania. In clinton, pennsylvania. Caller if you take new york i never heard the term, when dinkins was in, crime was rampant. Later on, over the next seven or eight years when the other mayor took over, crime was reduced. You ask anybody in new york, he did an effective job. When you let the lowlevel crime go, it far out numbers murders arent robberies armed robberies and so forth. What else are you supposed to do . In my career at least a dozen times when i pulled lack people over for a Traffic Violation one of the first things that comes over is you are pulling me over because i am black. No i pulled you over because you ran the stop sign or you were speeding. I didnt know what you were colored. Or that is a white mans lot. I didnt know speeding was a white man law. This is the attitude in the black community today. That they want left alone. We can do these little oddball crimes like in ferguson. That is a daily occurrence. . Take something off the shelf and you push somebody around. That is not a crime to them. That is borrowing cigars. Host let me ask you about the issue of trust that some of our callers have brought up. That kathy in washington d. C. Alluded to and coher interview on the topic in her interview on the topic. To overly enforce some of these lowlevel crimes that alienate potential witnesses and victims that could talk to them about larger crimes. Caller from working with black Police Officers from these areas, like pittsburgh, i can tell you this. It is not mistrust and cothe police. In the police. When you have a victim, they will not come forward. They will end up dead if it is a major crime. The people who testified for the cop, if they were black, they will not release those names. Those thugs in tha