Policy. And would include religious cultural and political concerns. Not to mention the economic concerns. Policy for the decades now that economic concerns should be secondary. That protection of health should be primary. That need not be in contradiction to or in competition with religious practice. Be science advice should not about religious practice. It should not have bias of any sort. When i say it should be the starting point, i mean lets first understand how things are and then decide what to do. Host diane is calling from texas on our democratic line. Caller hello, good morning. Mr. Holt has answered some of my questions. Several of us are retired people, but we joined the union of concerned scientists, and it almost seems like we are just whistling in the breeze. If the epa advisory committees functioning and not. Im just wondering, is there any hope that this will turn around in the near future . Guest of course there is for several reasons. This is a great country. We have gone through tough times , but time and again, the people who are the ultimate source of power in this country have gotten things back on track. The second point is over the long run, the evidence wins. Ive always told politicians and public officials, base your comments and your actions as best you can on the evidence because in the long run, that is going to outlast ideology. That will outlast opinion and wishful thinking. Make isr point i would that there are many that are becoming much more active in the defense of the conditions under which science can thrive and benefit people. I am really quite hopeful. I think the march for science is an interesting example of People Public toneed to go defend the conditions under which science can thrive and help people. Rush holt, the ceo of the American Association for the advancement of science. To find out more about that organization, thank you so much for joining us. Up next in our weekly spotlight on magazine segment, we are joined by Pratik Chougule, the american conservative of the american conservative to discuss his piece on how the u. S. Education system has left highly intellectual children and their parents behind. We will be right back. This weekend on American History tv on cspan3, tonight at 10 00 eastern on real america, a 50yearold cbs broadcast with new york senator Robert Kennedy and california governor ronald reagan, taking questions from students in london. In england, there is a movement against the termination. Would you like to comment on this and the countries may learn from americas experience. We are dealing with a heritage of what of what hundred 50 years of beginning on behaving unjustly to minority groups and we had just begun to recognize it and now we are starting to deal with it. At 8 00 on lectures in history, brian taylor on the military strategy and Political Goals of emancipation during the civil war. The idea that a president in the event of a secession a war over slavery and rebellion of the Southern States might have the authority to emancipate slaves as a military measure predates the civil war. Its not a new idea. It is articulated by John Quincy Adams on a number of occasions. Eastern, at 6 45 p. M. Talking about the first u. S. Congresss 1790 debate on slavery and race. Any a series of petitions that generated this heated debate, antislavery activists and the Pennsylvania Abolition Society but fourth a vision of a new nation that imagined a racially inclusive republic, where the basic rights of enslaved africans were respected. Eighth, letters exchanged between Abraham Lincoln and his friend joshua speed. For them to talk about their everlasting love for each other was normal and encouraged, to be expressive about intimacy and connection and even love and i think that is the way to see this relationship. As long as the boundary against sexuality was absolutely maintained. For our complete American History tv schedule, go to cspan. Org. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies. It is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Continues. On journal host joining us now is Pratik Chougule, the executive editor of the american conservative. He is here as part of our spotlight on magazine series, for an article he wrote about how the u. S. Education system has left highly intellectual children and their parents behind. Thank you so much for joining us. Guest thank you for having me. Host lets start by talking about what are some of the biggest factors in the u. S. For not cultivating gifted children . Guest what are the big issues that the academic winners the research is not very well understood. If you look at the totality of the research on high iq children in the 1920s to the present, what you find is that intelligence can be measured and it has a great deal of Predictive Value in trying to forecast to in our society has potential to achieve great things later on. That is an insight that we have not taken advantage of. Host lets talk about some of the characteristics of gifted children as you outlined. You say the inherent at least some of their cognitive edge, they may lose iq points through various environmental input. They have iqs that can be cultivated and channeled through environmental nourishment. They tend to be overrepresented in certain ethnic and racial male. And predominantly talk more about the characteristics of gifted children and how that affects the kind of education they were they receive. Guest gifted children are not representatives of American Society in any meaningful way. If you look demographically and look at their emotional profile, it is quite different, not only from other children, but in their demeanor and so forth. They are different in terms of the kind of children and most adults. One of the reasons why we are so foreign,t is they are they are so off from what we consider normal in children is a creates a level of discomfort and how to deal with them. Host so the other characteristics listed is a liar behavior, a limited ability to engage with their peers, and unique emotional vulnerabilities and are significantly more likely to achieve professional success. Identifypeople do to gifted children that may be able to fit their more their Educational Needs . Guest tests of cognitive intelligence are controversial, but if you look at the academic literature, there is consensus that iq tests really work. Did you identify real talent and they have Predictive Value. One of the other things that are done to identify high iq children is gifted the sat is administered when they are in seventh and eighth grade and there is a category of children who are able to perform quite highly on that test, far higher than the american the average american highschooler is able to do. If you look at the children who perform well on the sat in middle school, they usually end up having successful careers. Host we are joined by Pratik Chougule, the executive editor of the american conservative. He is here as part of our spotlight on magazine series, talking about his piece about the u. S. Education system and how it has left intellectual children and their parents behind. Democrats can call 202 7488000. Republicans, 202 7488001. Independents, 202 7488002. Parent of a gifted child, we encourage you to call into this conversation as well. Howarticle you wrote is america has turned against smart kids. Is that the way you see this, do you see the Education System as turning against intelligent children . Guest i do, and i dont think this is a new development. There has been an extraordinary degree of ambivalence toward high iq children which has bordered on hostility. I talk about why that is. I think the arguments are largely political in nature. It should be a knowledge that many of the researchers in the 1920s and 30s who were interested in cultivating high iq children were believers in eugenics. I think today, one of the reasons why American Society has turned against high iq children what began as an effort to promote equality of opportunity has morphed into a broader zeal, where American Society is oriented around leveling the playing field, but also ensuring we have certainly certain equality of opportunity. The presence of talented and gifted children with any ability that is above and beyond what is found in American Society does pose a challenge to those who are primarily concerned with social justice. Host one passage from your article says rather than ,nvesting in high iq children American Society has moved in the opposite direction, and education establishment seduced by a military and zeal and a antiof antiintellectual American Culture has turned the very idea of investing in our most intelligent kids into a sort of heresy and uncouth department from a conventional wisdom that has hardened since the 1930s. Can you talk about what you meant that by that . Guest the educational system is not responsive to high iq children. I was surprised at how few schools exist that cater to this demographic. Many parents of these children are actually forced when they are seeking opportunities, basically to work entirely on their own in the private sector, whether it is through private tutors or coaches or whatever else. It is easy to complain about the educational system, but my argument is that the system that we have is a reflection of who we are as a culture and who we are as a people. I think if you look at the american nation and one of the Cultural Values that unite us as people, i think the reality is that there is a strong tendency toward antiintellectualism that works against high iq children and their parents. Host nikki is calling in from florida on our democratic line. 202 7488000 good morning caller good morning, how are you . Host im well. Guest i have a caller i have a suggestion in picking out who these high iq children are. We overlook struggling readers in early grades. These often turn into dyslexic children and dyslexic children are known to be high iq children. I have worked for 45 years with dyslexia. Students whoveral have been at risk for being asked to leave the academic sector because of how troublesome they were, and yet wind up taking sats in high school and getting 4 wrong on the entire test. They are really in children but we lose them by second or third grade and they are not getting the support they need. I think its important for us to look at who makes up our ceos and great leaders. So many of these people have a history of dyslexia. I think if we look into that area, we would find more children being overlooked. Guest an interesting point. One of the things i found in doing the research is that many children who are endowed with extraordinary potential are often misunderstood and labeled as having behavioral issues or other problems that can be dealt with in ways that dont require medication. They simply require a certain amount of special attention and they can go on to achieve great things. I think the caller is absolutely right. If you look at the most prominent people in our society many of them were could have been identified as gifted children when they were younger. It is an important point. Host can you talk about the issue that how race plays a role in this . You say there has been a focus on equality in the Education System that has taken away from this focus on gifted children. Is there comes in there could is there some concern that there is the idea that minorities do not perform in this gifted way and that they are catering to the wrong students . Guest if you look at American Society in any example of gifted or intelligent children, there are racial and disparities. Indianin the piece that americans and northeast asians tend to be overrepresented. That reality produces a certain degree of angst. The reality is if we had an Education System that was oriented around cultivating human talent delete talent aite talent, they would be disproportionate ands we are talking to Pratik Chougule, of the american the executive editor of the american urban about his piece on gifted children as part of our spotlight on magazines. Democrats can call 202 7488000. Republicans, 202 7488001. Independents, 202 7488002. We encourage parents and educators to join the conversation as well. Patricia is calling from kansas on our independent line. Caller good morning. Ask what hasto happened to the education thatculum for teachers changed between the time i was in grade school, in the 50s and 60s and the time that my daughter was in school in the 90s, because we used to have quite a bit of competitiveness in the classroom and it was encouraged and by the time she got to school, it was all helping others. It was more like a group learning situation. Quite a maths students, yet when she got into fourth grade, and was asked as a high math student to help those reallyrdly knew any, a it really dimmed her enthusiasm for learning. Im wondering what has happened in the educational system between the 60s and the 90s. Guest the 50s or an interesting time in this respect real\afterre was a came to the 4gime after the nazi regime came to four there was a degree of angst about whether or not we were keeping up with the soviet in math and science. Beginning in the 60s and continuing to the present day, there was another back lash related to the civil rights movement. Another thing that happened, which is the feminist movement. The impact that had was that it had a profound impact on who was really filling the ranks of Public School teachers. If you look in the 1950s before any of the barriers to womens professional opportunities were lifted, many of the brightest women in our society became great school teachers. That changed by the time you get to the 90s. One of the realities that gifted children face and their parents as well is that the unfortunate reality is that gifted children tend to be cognitively superior to many other teachers, but they also come from a different socioeconomic demographic and that makes it challenging for teachers to be able to relate to high iq children and their parents. Host another passage from your pieces whether or not the control our society, the preponderance of the evidence suggests that gifted children are endowed with unusual potential that manifest in adult eminence. Although gifted children do inherit certain genetic advantages, their overall life becomes cognizant to the degree to which they are nourished and protected from environmental hazards. What did you mean by that . Guest there is no question that some degree of intelligence in children is hereditary or genetic. Thekly, i dont know statistic and i am agnostic on the subject. One of the things that becomes clear is it is much easier to if we were serious about looking at what are the factors that affect iq and doing whatever we , i think that alone would produce Better Outcomes for society across the board. Host james is calling in South Carolina on our democrat line. Caller i just wanted to say that this man is right on. Our country got to the point where we wanted to dumb people down and say there is something wrong with them instead of enhancing them and putting them where they can do the best job. If you have a high intelligence, good. If you need to sweep the floors in the office building, then thats as far as you can go. We got him with this thing where everybody is equal and everyone thinks their child is a genius but we are not all geniuses. Guest one of the realities the caller touched on and it is what began as highminded egalitarianism has morphed into shaming and downright hostility toward high iq children and their parents. It is an interesting question why part of it may be jealousy. Part of it may be a lack of understanding and a certain degree of resentment that people feel when parents or others point out that their children may be endowed with a certain level of intelligence that may not be accessible to other people. One of the things i found in reading the memoirs and other testimonies of parents of gifted children is the degree to which they feel at odds with culture and are often looked down upon. It is challenging and at times dramatic traumatic. Host talking about environmental hazards that gifted children should be protected from. What environmental hazards do you mean . Guest there are a number of environmental factors that are correlated with diminishing iq. Watching tv for extended periods of time diminishes cognitive function. One of the things i found is Corporal Punishment is related to declines in iq and other cognitive functions. I think that maybe some of these differences we see within American Society may be related to the way that parents discipline their children. There is a difference between how educated parents tend to do some of their children, namely that they dont rely on Corporal Punishment, which is very different from lower socioeconomic populations and also certain regions of the country. Host kirk is calling from leave mine, from our independent line. You are on with Pratik Chougule. Caller thank you for taking my call. My assessment of this situation is that our hierarchy of priorities is completely skewed. If as a society we had our act together, so to speak, we would put education at the very top of the list of priorities. This issue with losing the top students is another byproduct of s situation where we have we pay athletes these colossal teacherswe paid virtually less than minimum wage when you factor in all the hours that they plugin on a weekly basis. Been a very disconcerting issue for me. It is one thing i think if we can take a fundamental reassessment of our priorities in a