2014,k rasmussen, since has been the leader of the National Counterterrorism center, previously welcome to to white house as advisor the president on National Security. Both gentlemen leave agencies that were born out of the 9 11 commission report. I wonder if you could give us a perspective, 15 years removed. How do you see the role of your agencies as the evil . Thanks, evan. It is great to be here, thanks to events one. We were created in 2006 as a result of reforms recommended. The full range of problems could be tackled. In doing that, it meant looking at legal problems anyway whether it was department of defense, fbi, cia, nsa, that we viewed the problem as one that was intelligence driven, meaning we would look at what the intelligence showed the threat was. Our solutions should be tailored against that threat to disrupt it. A full range of legal tools to make sure that analysts and viewssionals had the full of what the intelligence picture was. Once they showed what the threat was that the operators, Law Enforcement professionals had the full range of legal tools at disrupting it. In terms of where we are, we gotten very good at applying that model against the terrorist threat. The idea is said together almost every day in the National Security council and youll have a terrorist group, and we will each go around the table with all of the different authorities and expertise and say how do we make their lives more difficult . How do we disrupt before they have a chance to do an attack . We look at some of the a sex test some of the success we had when it came to seven security threats. Over the last several years, we reorganized to do things like to handle thatrs which is on the classified side, methods. On the other hand, learn about the specific laws that apply to computer hacking. Those trained prosecutors back out to all 94 u. S. Attorney officers u. S. Attorneys officers. What washall share formally on the intelligence side. Does not necessarily lead to criminal prosecution, but having these lawyers look at what the intelligence shows what the threat is, we can start getting created creative at increasing the cost of it. You defense one for allowing me to join you. Last year, we had a chance to look back and celebrate our 10 year anniversary. In ctc was created out of the 9 11 experience, specifically out of recommendations offered by the 9 11 commission. Onorporated into 10 years , looking where we are, the fundamental weakness in our system that the intelligence form intelligence reform act was made to address, we can look at the progress we have made in making sure all of the information and intelligence information that is available to the government is brought together in one place, understood and assessed and analyzed did analyze. That is not to say weve got across every hurdle or adjust every vulnerability, but i feel very good that the systemic at thells that we faced time of 9 11 have been addressed successfully. I will say Going Forward as we look toward the information we are done with today, the challenges are still there. In some ways growing. Ctc comets at in across the Intelligence Community from every Intelligence Community partner that we have contributes personnel my analysts have access to the information as was designed. Recently, where finding and we are finding relevant information exists in the nonclassified world. Nctc willreatly for be finding new and powerful ways to open source information. Information that is out there for anybody to look at. It is out there is such volume that looking at it with a degree of analysis and rigor that you would want, it is a challenge. One of the things that happened this weekend is a Russian Airliner crashed and one of the first things we heard is a claim theymbers of isis claiming were responsible for bring down this airplane. Is there anything you can tell us what you have seen that could shed some light on this . I have seen the claims that isolate did make about carrying out action that brought down the Russian Airliner. At this point we have nothing that we have seen to corroborate. ,oull notice at this point because it is an unfolding picture. We reached up, and try to collect as much affirmation as we can. One of the interesting cases that you have been responsible for recently is the tell the audience about it and why it was groundbreaking for the justice department. Up let me be , the defendant will have the right to defend himself. This is a groundbreaking case, it is the first of its kind. An first time we have seen individual charged with hacking and with providing Material Support to a terrorist group. It is particularly important because it shows the complexity of the new threat that we face. Why one of the key lessons post 9 11 is to make sure we get better sharing within the government. Parisi went and hacked into a u. S. Company. Over 100,000 names, Social Security numbers, etc. From the point of the view from the point of view of the they try to kick him off the system, what he did was threaten them. Hackers who extort and said if you kick me off, if you do not and let500 from bitcoin me back onto your system, im going to release names and identifiers anyway that embarrasses you. It looks like a classic cyber case. Would not have known on the backend that this individual was providing and in touch with a terrorist group in cereal group in syria. Thats providing that name included identifying information about military personnel to the terrorist group that was crawling through the data and focusing on those military personnel or others, posting it through twitter, through u. S. Providers anyway that called upon people all over the world kill the individuals who whose personal identifying information they posted. To provide information to a british guy who is in iraq is syria and then projections back into the United States using u. S. Technology and free services, twitter and others to call on these people to be killed. On forcefully this will not be the last using this type of threat. How easy was it to figure out where this was coming from . We were not doing the investigation and attribution and bringing all of the not just figuring out exactly who did it and how. This is an example of the fact that we can do that. Wegh you may not cannot put you behind the keyboard, we can. He is arrested by the malaysians, pending extradition pursuant to u. S. Criminal process. We were able to Work Together and use information, whether it was elected by intelligence Intelligence Community and Law Enforcement. One of the people he is alleged to have been in touch ofh is a hacker by the name jennie hussein, one of the most prolific recruiters for isis on the internet. E was killed in a u. S. Strike how did that relate to your case . How does that affect your case echo case . In terms of our case, it is alleged in the complaint that he passes information over to g a hussein. Iswhat i would say evan Janine Hussein proved to be one of those individuals taking advantage of modern Technology Tools not only to engage in activities that you described but with the purposes of identifying individuals inside the United States, inside countries all around the world, who might sympathize or affiliate with isil and carry out attacks locally in the name of this terrorist Group Operating in syria and iraq. Communicating with a set of extremists around the world and trying to instigate, trigger violent activity against individuals here in the United States and other places around the world. That is a new paradigm in terms of the terrorist model. Difficultt much more for Law Enforcement and intelligence to get into the middle of the conversation, to interrupt that potential threat, as opposed to the classic kind where youst threat were dealing with a clandestine cell. We as an Intelligence Community had many opportunities to get inside of those can indications and figure out what was going on. When you are talking about something as simple over social media, a cup it becomes a much more daunting task. We are seeing the effect here in the United States. It is putting a lot of pressure on the fbi. We have had over the last 18 months 70 cases brought that are linked to the foreign terrorist fighters. This year alone we are up over 10 cases linked to individuals for isil to call upon them. It may be hard to travel overseas so killing someone at home. Of those cases, the fbi director says we have investigations open in all 50 states. Were brought terminal cases and 25 different jurisdictions. We have not seen a terrorist threat like this before. Of the cases we brought as well we are seeing a change in the demographic. Over 50 of the cases are 25 and under. One third are 21 and under. Ats a direct result least in the United States, where not seeing the threat driven by a demographic or in the or ethnicity. Almost in every case, a tie to social media. Because of the people use social media, i think that his wife we are seeing our cases i think that is why we are seeing our cases turn younger and never. The death of Janine Hussein. We heard on the fbi director in congress, testifying that the number of isis recruits coming from the United States is down dramatically. We are having nine a month. Now he said six over the past three months. I wonder if you think it is related to the fact that hussein is no longer talk to people by social media trying to lure them to his site. I will be more cautious in drawing the conclusion than you were. There is no doubt we have seen some slowing of the pace at which americans are discovered to be trying to travel to iraq in syria to join into the conflict. A samplergue it is size. I like to see day like that persists over a years time before i would maybe feel like the trend has reversed itself. I would also hesitate to put too much on one individual. While we certainly looked at hussein as a someone with a very unique set of skills, someone who brought unique energy in the way to which he was reaching out to people. In no way what i want to suggest he was one of a kind or that isil does not have other individuals who can reach into this country or our western partner countries and have the same kind of affect. I ask my analysts often is there a natural ceiling that we here in the United States . I dont think we know the answer yet. The particular pathogen that isil seems to represent seems to have injected that is a published weve been doing with throughout since 9 11. It is been given new energy since i sold. The fbi director is onto something. I want to see those trends persist. The vast majority of those thewn violence vast majority of those homegrown ce attacks by isis you continue to find individuals who are attracted to other terrorist groups, other forms of terrorist ideology. Isil has injected new life into that community. In part, because of their message. The unique way in which they are able to communicate their message. The changes we have seen in the last few months has been a deal whereby the United States is able to use an air base in turkey to be up to carry out some of the antiisis operations. Also an agreement for turkey to do more to try and counter the number of westerners traveling to syria and iraq. Turning the entrance to russia into this conflict. Can you tell us whether you have seen any change in the number of westerners who are being lowered across the border there to fight . Im going to fall back on the too early to tell at the bottom line answer. We often have lagging indicators. We get information that will tell you about what someone did six months ago or a year ago. That helped to fill out the picture on how many fighters made their way to erect or syria to iraq or syria. We have seen signs of increased capability and will by the government of turkey to interdict those lines of fighters looking to get into the conflicts own. We are doing everything we can to provide support in whatever way we can, intelligent support, providing advice. Our turkish partners certainly understand this is a problem that they face to. Turkey has had themselves experience attacks from isil. I think we have a shared interest. We need to deepen and broaden that cooperation to make sure we get even more out of them. Have you seen anything change in the flow of cases that are being brought to your office . Tell. Early to as i said the biggest trend we have seen this year now up over 10 would be the individuals who are radicalized by someone overseas, often through social media. The attempt to carry out the attack here in the United States. Disrupting them through the criminal justice system. And noted to see this threat or changed, it is going to be and all tools approach, meaning a applying you can give these terrorist a safe haven overseas to plot and plan. Whether its the United States or our partners overseas, we need to keep pressing them overseas, otherwise we will be playing defense here inside the United States. Giving the nature of this threat, we will reach out to those who are providing the social media platform for terrorists where terrorists are exploded. Theres reasons why our kids are on them, playing on them. At the same time, we know they are being exploited by terrorists. Targeting and having success targeting young people, including children with their radicalizing message. We need to call upon those to provide the platforms and are experts on them to help us keep those platforms from being exploited by terrorists. Times you havef testified in congress about the opaqueness of data coming out of syria and concern about refugees. People who might try to do us harm, either because they have a passport that allows them to come here with less screening. How would that change in the past year or so echo youre so . When you look back 16 or 18 , we were starting from an intelligence deficit. The drawdown of our presence in iraq certainly shrunk the size of our intelligence collection apparatus, both the broader Intelligence Community and the downsized dod presents led to a less complete picture in iraq. Certainly the picture we enjoyed all through to thousands when we were heavily engaged on the groundwork, you add to that syria, the chaotic wartime environment. The fact we had to close our embassy and drawdown our presence there. It meant we were starting from a big hole in terms of an intelligence picture than we would typically want to be in. But the Intelligence Community, we have a lot of resources. We spent a lot of time over the last year trying to identify opportunities to enhance collections to give ourselves a better picture. If you think about some of the other conflict zones where we have had Great Success from conducting counterterrorist operations, we did so there after spending several years building an intelligence Capability Network to begin to pay off over time. In a rack in syria, and iraq in syria we are much more in the impose that on my components. Was a great deal of concern that something might happen this summer. I want to know how that was reflected . I will start. People a collection of from across the Intelligence Community who focus on counterterrorism. We are not operation. We are not out in the field surveilling suspects or carrying out interviews. What we are doing is dealing with a flood of information. Informationflood of specific isotope linked individuals who are reaching into the homeland to try and identify people who hold extremist views, who hold views very much like what i Still Believes in sync them to carry out violence violent acts insight the United States. Model that wea were looking at the first time. Resources to our be up to follow all of the different bits of information. Lifting up out of all of the potential social media interactions between individuals. Where do you have individuals who are simply consuming extremist material . And where do you have individuals looking to plot and plan . On our end with the prosecutors, we had secure videoconferences with individuals from the fbi, nctc and prosecuted prosecutors in the field to prepare them for what we see coming. Intelligence committee the Intelligence Community did a good job of that meant having prosecutors in the intelligence lawyers work 20 47 to obtain the information in a way that we could use it. The criminal court system, and or workingeant with District Court judges throughout the country to bring case after case and an unprecedented fashion and make. Ure we were available that the fbi and local lawenforcement would need to disrupt the threat. Has that pays gone down . It is too early to tell. Down going to spike and go slightly over the years. You have seen spikes like this before . We have never seen if you look over the 18 months. Od link tos peri the ultimate arrest of headley who was involved with mumbai. In terms of having this many individuals who are not necessarily connected to each other, but instead are getting radicalized. We have not seen Something Like this before. In terms of having this many defendants who are this young, going into the criminal system, we have not seen it before. Going back to where we were created. Necessary. We need to work as hard as we can to prevent the loss of innocent lives. We are lacking to be prosecuting our way out of this problem. Maintain the pace to prevent the attacks. Onalso need to work longterm solution to keep this from being a successful tack it. To keep terrorists overseas from being able to directly contact 17year