In the paper, but then you can say like one person was telling me that, he was telling me that the memoranda they read, that there were not a lot of mistakes in those memoranda because nobodys going to put on paper what host carefully be, yeah. Carefully. Guest but he said that once he sat down with people id say, well, you know, youd think you might want to organize geographically the nsc this way, but we tried this, and it just didnt work, and it didnt work for the following reasons. So that was particularly important to be able to have that time, that obama appointed people early enough that they could do that. But also important was the work that steve hadley did. And so they could take those memoranda which had been passed through the intelligence community, state department, and president bush. So they could take those and ask questions about them. Those were the ones that didnt have a lot of things that had been done wrong but they were willing to be very open in their discussion. Host is a definite analysis, a situation that turned out melted away. You go to a couple central points, one is the issue of trust we will get to later in the relationship that was absolutely key. On 9 11, after the terrorist attack of 9 11 it seems to me reading your book that you concluded the 9 11 tragedy fundamentally changed transitions for the aspects of it in terms of measuring the drapes and so forth. Encouraged more interaction. Guest absolutely that is so. That is true personally and institutionally. President bush talked to josh bolin and the chief of staff in december 2007. And talk to him about the best transition he could. It is important to do that. Congress also acted, demonstrated that a transition was a different time period. The 9 11 Commission Recommended people be appointed earlier, that would require security clearances being done early. The intelligence reform and terrorism prevention act of 2004 made a provision for names to be sent in for security clearances after the convention so that once the transition began they would have people clear, and that became important because we obama people took advantage of that and put in 150 to 200 names so people could start. That was critical because you dont want to have a fragile period like that extended. You want to make sure things work fast and you have your people in place and host you have a period, Just National security is fundamental and sacred as safety and security of the American People and any transition of power, the financial crisis for major consideration in the transition you write about and appropriately so. The financial meltdown occurred before the election. Tell us about that. The incoming secretary, Timothy Guyton are tim guyton are that was a critical position as well. You are planning you are planning the promises during the campaign for a couple years. All of a sudden something that was so large in september. Heart of the election, the bush people really didnt have any political muscle left. That meant the president elect had to be involved and encourage congress, to hear whatever measures they wanted. Host very controversial and difficult. Guest with the auto bailout. Host you are recounting it. An important aspect of dealing with the financial situation, the Automobile Industry had so many contractors, subcontractors. Involve millions of people. The bush people were interested in making sure the industry be stabilized as quickly as possible. They had a meeting with the obama people after thanksgiving, where they talked about an auto bailout, having a dark to handle that, and they would be willing to appoint a person that they wanted. At that time, which was before the inauguration. The obama people decided not to take advantage of that. Host we heard the expression at one time. Off of that bit. Guest the president elect all of a sudden is a swift change from campaigning to governing, having to figure out to take that offer of the bailout and took the same route president roosevelt had when Herbert Hoover was involved. He didnt you buy into somebody elses problem. Host to close the chapter in terms of the financial challenges, your conclusion was during the transition, because of this level of cooperation, your conclusion is the transition helped move through that period in a more positive way than otherwise might have been the case. Guest that is true in so many ways. The appointment process or general procedures. Host lets move to president bush to capitalize your themes, to start early and stay open. Tell us a little bit how and why president bush focused so much on this transition as early as december 2007. Guest in one way it was comfortable for him. He had clay johnson working as his chief of staff, in june of 99, had him thinking separately about transition and wanted him to talk to the jim bakers and George Shultzes and get some understanding how transitions work and also think about recruitment or personnel. Planning ahead with something was natural to him. He was very affected by the wars and the need to not just for president obama or the presidency itself, which you have in your hands, that institution remains strong and that is one of the reasons he started early. Josh bolton, wanted him to handle it. He could come to him, get his approval and banking on something. And involved in the financial crisis, he was juggling all those things, did a lot of the work. And dealt with the executive director for the obama transition, christopher lou. The legislative affairs assistant for senator obama, and lost one together. He had the full confidence, and many issues on a daily basis after the election about people going into departments and gathering information, the two of them were able to dispose of them. Host chief of staff josh bolton, breakfast meeting, former chief of staff and the meeting organized, breakfast organized to give counsel to rahm emanuel, the incoming chief of staff and before that had the opportunity to sit in on a couple sessions chief bolton organized with andy card and a couple others in the Bush White House reflecting what you are saying and we will get to john podesta in the Obama Administration but i recall that vividly, Vice President cheney, chief of staff made the statement, to keep an eye on your Vice President. Guest the mark of Vice President cheney, not just to himself, referring to his experience. Host you make a good point. Dont think that was taken but your interpretation is to divide one. Vice president cheney went on for serious advice as we tried to. It is interesting when president bush began this process, the next president of the United States really started with chief of staff bolton, clay johnson, longtime confident and friends who i have great regard and respect for. The reaction was different than some might have fought between the Obama Campaign and his advisers, and john mccains people, tell us about that. They reflect personalities. Guest with obama, a change of party transition, so in a change of party transition you want to change personnel quickly, have your executive orders lined up, memoranda that are going to change as these guidelines hit the ground running so there is a lot to do right at the beginning to demonstrate there is a new sheriff in town and we are doing business differently. With john mccain, the same party transition so you are not going to be as anxious about changing personnel quickly. And legislative initiatives, you would give that some time. One of the things in their minds, putting in names which he did not for security clearances is he had people and 150 to 200. There is not a lot of difference. And the committee in the senate for appointees of his and security clearances. I think he felt he had the bones of a staff to come in. A same party transition has a helpfulness and friendliness to it this morning, going to make it a lot easier. For example, when Vice President bush follows ronald reagan, when there were vacancies at the end of the administration, the 2 important positions for treasury and attorney general and the education secretary, the three of them left, you had vacancies there, reagan appointed brady, a very good friend of George Hw Bush and Richard Thornburg for attorney general, and he kept all of them and two of them with the administration. Host a positive transition, seamless transmission benefits the city as well as incoming president and it is fair to say you make a point, burnish is the reputation and you did your homework and talked in the white house. Is that part of president bushs motivation . Guest it certainly could have been. Republicans tend to focus on management and bush is focused on management when a managing transition early when he came in, it was natural for him to do it going out particularly with the wars. You dont have a lot of persuasion, ability to persuade congress to do something, not spending a lot of time there and spent a lot of time on the road traveling. It is natural to be thinking about a wrap up of the administration and useful to become a narrative of what youre administration accomplished, how it all fits together particularly with the president s vision. Some people will look at the presidency in part, individual action, this gives you an opportunity to pull it together and that was something reagan did that worked to his benefit and eisenhower did it. I study white house communication. Host we will ask about that later. The press secretary for eisenhower, in his office he performed the jobs of 60 people and one of the memos that he wrote to him, to deal with the last year, he should travel, a man of peace, and travel around the world and that got interrupted by the you 2 and the trouble that resulted with the soviet union after that. Have a theme for your presidency and for eisenhower, having a seat for your whole life, his presidency becomes a man of peace. It is useful for everybody including the president and for his legacy to have a wrap up and the kind of memo steve hadley did were important too for all of this goes into a president ial library and gives people a sense of what you were thinking. It is a positive way to end your presidency because you can get around again to the notion of the presidency as an institution and how did you handle it . Host you make some points in terms of transition after 9 11. That changed the perspective and the fact that president bush was a two term president not running for reelection. We knew it would be a transition and his Vice President was not seeking office. Those are very different dynamics. You also, lets take a step back, you mentioned president eisenhower. President truman was the father of this transition, focused on the need for this transition but in terms of the fundamental tenets you make about the bush and obama teams of trust, relations might have been less trusting or frosty between president truman and incoming president Dwight Eisenhower. Guest they were. And trumans case, one of the things that happened is president s are affected by things that happen to them before. They then want to deal with that situation and truman came in as Vice President , january 20th in roosevelts eyes on april 12th and during that time period he did not learn about a lot that was going on, and it was wartime, the development of the atomic bomb, he was very scarred by that, didnt want it to happen. When he made his decision and announced it at the Jefferson Jackson day dinner that he was not going to run again he could have run but he decided not to run and talked to roger jones, the head of the bureau, the budget and talked to him about preparing for a transition and how he wanted to pull together budget information and making program information. That unit which is the office of management and budget was the heart of a government operation, had the kind of information a president would want to pull together for a professor. He was very interested, one of the things he decided to do, i will read to you, president truman and eisenhowers own words. Please go right ahead blues our viewers would enjoy it. Guest truman being truman. He decided what he would like to do is bring them into the white house, bring the candidates in. You had both candidates, advice stevenson for the democrats, Dwight Eisenhower for the republicans, nominated by the time of the letter eisenhower sent to both on august 13, 19 host truman did. Guest truman said in his letter i will have general smith and the special Intelligence Agency give you a complete briefing on the foreign situation and after that they were going to have more things. He also said he indicated to eisenhower that the cia would provide a briefing from the world situation on a weekly basis which eisenhower did take. Then he said in his letter we will have lunch with the cabinet and after that if you like i will have my entire staff report to you on the situation in the white house and in that way host a generous offer. Guest on what takes place. Eisenhower wrote him back turning him down. In my current position as standardbearer of the Republican Party and other americans who want to bring about a change in the national government. Host in case you missed my point. Guest it is my view to remain free to analyze publicly the policies of the present Administration Whenever it appears to be proper and in the countrys interest. I believe our communication to be those known to allAmerican People. Consequently it would be unwise and result in confusion in the public mind, to attend the meeting in the white house to which you invited me. Truman was not very happy and sometimes what he did was handwrote letters. And hand written, he put it in the mailbox when he was doing host communication today. Guest not going to the chief of staff. Host picking up on your point. Extremely sorry with a bunch of improvable. And a bad mistake and hoping it wont injure the public. Host vintage harry truman response, should have moved forward. This is a fundamental point, eisenhower was skeptical, reluctant to engage with a democratic president , transition of the presidency and one of the hallmarks that you wonderscore about this being a bubble in your view, the you had a sitting two term republican president transitioning with a democratic president who is critical of the Bush Administration and had a level of trust established and equally important. Host joel kaplan is a deputy, talked about how he thought it was an excellent statement about the transition, they were able, they got beat up for a couple years. At the same time host so striking, what is so important, the value of the timing of the book we have such a partisan atmosphere, and optimistic book in that sense, you transcend that, and what is essential for the protection of the presidency. A couple points we want to get to, john podesta assumed the leadership of the Transition Group from president elect obama. The chief of staff to president clinton, seen those inner workings and understood it. You characterize john styles corporate and emphasize having separate track of the transition. Guest his operation was different, early operations, what he needed to do, setting things up, and people go into the department and agency to review programs, budgets, personnel. Host relatively detailed. Guest you have to pick people who have been there before so that they know what to look for but he said things up in a way using a template that all the review teams were to use. They had hugely large review teams on a problem, people may want to get their own information and make a report. He was able to have a disciplined operation. Talked through carefully at the beginning what kind of information they wanted. I asked him about that process and how he maintained this fund and went back to being staff secretary. When you were chief of staff. And he learned there the importance of detail. When putting together the Agency Review team, the policy teams and also the leadership part, 679 people. It was a disciplined operation and didnt hear any problems arising from it. Host it is fair to say and most people would agree their political persuasion, political operative, we saw that in this instance. Now usually it is handled with dispatch and chief bolton is a consequent professional. And linked together easily. You talk about unsung heroes. This is an important part of people in the government cooperating, so essential. Tell us about that because it gets overlooked. Guest there is a lot that has to be done in the government itself before the transition begins. So for example the General Services administration identifying the office space that is going to be used with the office space is identified for the coming transition and then they have to talk with representatives of both sides about how they are going to put their offices together, however they want to put it together and then they have to talk to them about computers, security and how they are planning on doing that. Then you have the office of government ethics dealing with the Financial Disclosure requirements that came from host we built on it. Guest Financial Disclosure, they need to talk about candidates, representatives about what kind of disclosure it is because a lot of people know they have to reveal all their stocks and get rid of many of them. They need to know beforehand the transition teams do. Then you have the people, career staff who are trying to prepare for a change. They are following what is going on in a campaign. Sometimes one of the things that happens, they might follow campaign pronouncements of a candidate and what programs they want or should want and figure out how much of that can cost so they can have that information ready for them and that is something various operations, roger jones did that for the 52 election. Clay johnson, a close friend of president bush, had a sense of management. He and the bush had gone to high school together, they met at high school and both went to yale, both took business.