Good evening everyone and i am thrilled to welcome you to tonight Virtual Program americas constitutional conversation. I am grateful this evening for sponsoring the program tonight. So thank you y for your great partnership. Just before i introduce our speakers and went to recognize and think the New York Historical trustees joining us this evening. And executive committee and one of tonight speakers who will be joining us momentarily on the virtual stage and with the chairmans counsel we are very grateful toof each and every one of you especially during this challenging time. Welcome back to our stage lot of Political Science at Yale University before joining faculty with the associate Justice Stephen breyer for the first circuit. Also a visiting adjunct professor americas constitutional conversation and joining us as moderator is richard were kaiser senior fellow and Senior Editor at the National Review. The history of the exceptional idea and the man who made the Supreme Court with the 2004 exhibition and i was delighted to be able to work with him and president george w. Bush awarded him the metal and a white house ceremony. We have allotted one hour and 15 minutes we have disabled the chat function so please remember to use the q and a the speakers will get to as many questions as time allows now im happy to turn our virtuall stage over to tonight speakers. Thank you. Thank you for joining us its always a pleasure and honor to be at the New York Historical society to be here with professor because he is dear old friend and has been for years. He has written this terrific book the words that made us constitutional conversation. Your book covers a lot of things you would expect to be covered in such a book talk about the federalist papers and the Constitutional Convention bad a lot of the real richness of the book its a less expected and maybe a little surprising. I want to start with two words from your title and your subtitle. I want to start with words and conversations which maybe isnt the first thing that people would think of when i think of the constitution and its history and its development. What conversation are you talking about and who are the people in it . What kind of things are they saying . We begin in the new world and talking to each other in newspapers especially but in letters and facetoface conversations. They talk themselves into becoming americans. They begin to realize whether they are in massachusetts are down in virginia or in other colonies and my story begins with 1760. They begin to understand what they have in common with each other. They are talking to britain initially and they see themselves beginning in my story as british subjects in the new world. People on the middle were looking at both sides, and newspaper of journalists, they are indispensable to this project. They are talking initially on what will become the declaration of independence, and then eventually they have talked themselves into becoming visibly americans. One nation, indivisible, not the constitution. And they do it ethically through political cartoons, words and pictures, some very highest polluting stuff. And that includes an inclusive and robust and uninhibited wideopen distinctly american experience. Cemented freeforall. We are so we are talking about more than just a big name. And you do cover them. You cover the people on the president ial placemat and that is the cast of characters that is much bigger than that. Yes, it is, for example in at number one in see number one, he is a pretty big name, but he is not a household name. And he is new englands Patrick Henry and it was Patrick Henry before there was Patrick Henry. And i tell the story than that chapter of three people who are going to be significant over the next 16 years and one of them is skeptical that he actually is the most common loyalist by 1775 and whats stunning is that most people dont really know his name or his story. Hes going to become the royal governor and he is americanborn and if you had asked someone as late as 1770 or so definitely 1775 which of these two favorite boston were smart people would end up supporting american independence and who would end up siding with the kingdom of Benjamin Franklin, both of them boston boys really smart, people would have maybe said franklin, his illegitimate son is the governor of new jersey and hutchinson will side with the with his fellow new englanders. So lots of people that are more obscure, but i think hudson in particular because i want my audience knew there was another side even to the American Revolution. If he were alive today and what does it mean that all . He is mitt romney, he is sober and he believes in hierarchy and his country is written and he loves his hometown with his boston area, that he had been born 20 years earlier he would not have been picking between them, but he does and so i do try to widen the cast of characters beyond the first four credits in this and of course jefferson, madison, franklin and harrison. Smack you also mentioned Benjamin Franklin. The way it almost selzer conversation, images are involved. Can you tell us about this great cartoon that franklin generates very early on in the conversation. Yes, so he sets a gene genius and he invents a lightning rod and social institutions in the first Secular University and hes also someone that invents the worlds first real political cartoon and its not from britain and its a very democratic culture. And it is the picture of a snake that is cut up into pieces and he has a slogan. It is the first viral means in which we could say hash tag join. The colleagues after Work Together with the mother country to deceive the french in the early stages what would become the french and indian war. And im very same page, he is a newspaper madman. If he were alive today he might be rupert murdoch. There is a picture of a snake and in effect hes also telling his audience about a young 22yearold military officer from virginia who bravely is confronting the french named George Washington and he is going to get the name and references to age 22. So if that car care, it is so simple, its not just art. It is easy to replicate. And a cartoon that is upanddown the continent, starting the coffee it which is kind of like three tweeted today. Journalists printers dont really pay a lot more content yet. They are not paying those that scribble like you and me. The publishing proceedings of local assemblies, grand jury pronouncements, judicial opinions, also republish essays appear elsewhere. If you are reprinted from philadelphia or boston or london and this is an image that goes viral, 10 years later they are against london, where the economies joined together, and then 10 years after that it has a rebirth. He hibernates and then he reawakens. He is like a phoenix. And in 177040 has been with the Continental Congress which involves joining against princeton, and the eventually it is a single that federalist argument for the constitution. We have to hang together, otherwise britain is going to cut us to pieces. It is a geostrategic argument and, my god, franklin is seeing a version of that, a more british version of that, as early his earliest 1754 he puts it in the double picture that ordinary people can understand, and three simple words that make a powerful and political argument. Join or die. He is imagining its just how many characters. Its instagram, it is amazing. It is snapchat. He couldve said could have said a lot more, but hes smart enough to stop his ahead. Obviously we want to get back to George Washington. And i think this is one of the most striking point that you have made, which is the American Constitutional Development of conversation is not just entirely within our own forces, its also the impact, over and over again, made by the world. So talk to us more about that. What is our position in the world have to do with thoughts about how we govern ourselves . We are protected by oceans. We are, if we join together, if we dont, were going to have 10 borders between south carolina, north carolina, georgia and georgia and maryland and pennsylvania, the masondixon line and so on and so forth and so the genius of this and eventually washington and hamilton, the Atlantic Ocean will be an amazing moat that will protect us if only reunite, the way that you can actually help lay off against each other in divide and conquer in that fashion, we have the policy for the west, making it an american Domain International domain and not just virginias backyard or pennsylvanias territory or connecticut on what becomes a piece of it. And so the western carteret and so yes, americans as early as 1754, franklin and washington are beginning to see the possibility that we are a world at war. And the constitution comes out of the revolution that is a part of, a large or global struggle. And so our audiences are very impressive, very sophisticated, historically, and of course, if you ask one of the First World War start, they would say it started in 19 oh team in the baltic. But no, it started in 1754 in americas backcountry when a young officer named George Washington got involved in confrontation between the two great superpowers of the world. France and england. Eventually, that have been in 1754, in a thing called the albany congress, it is going to become the worlds first global war. Suck in the two great powers come in the two greatest powers and other european powers get involved in this war, which we call the french and indian war, it has been involved on multiple oceans, multiple continents in the new world and the old world simultaneously, its going to culminate in a mass of redrawing of the global map and it will move from the french into the british and no conflict in World History before, new and old, multiple oceanic struggle, it is the First World War and at the same time it is generating that world war, a world conversation because they can move trips more quickly than ever and in both of them are being bred in philadelphia and youre beginning to have a genuine world conversation about constitutional First Principles like what should be the rules for the empire. In britain having one candidate as well for this really expensive or they are going to start imposing taxes and that includes paying for that paying for that war and that is eventually going to be leading to the American Revolution and even though they are really sophisticated, it is one part of a larger global struggle. They have to defend farflung colonies in india and africa and that includes every american, even saying that we are part of a larger world struggle and that includes 30 million french and the birds as well. Commanding the American Army and then an annex decade we will become the first president and you talked to him as a constitutional thinker and this might strike some people is a little bit odd, we know that hes a great man, we think of him as a great general, obviously, we think of him as a great executive and he didnt write the declaration of independence, he was at the Constitutional Convention and yet you identified a very important constitutional situation. So what is his contribution to this conversation. He is the indispensable man. Without him there is no constitution which is remotely like the one that he has. So taking this conversation and hes not a great scribbler. Hes not a big talker or agreed writer and hes a very good listener and he brings people who disagree and he listens to his advisers and actually he does a good job generating words, but he doesnt write pamphlets or our beds, he writes letters to people, he is a wonderful correspondent. And they are giving him intelligence, information, from all parts of america. Whats happening in lafayette, in france, he writes more and receives more letters than just about anywhere else in our audience can confirm this by looking at the national archives, which is free to everyone and word searchable. And so he is a wonderful listener, he is unanimously elected president , even if people vote against the constitution. He is unanimously reelected in part because hes trying to listen to everyone and unify the country and hold it together. Now, substantively moving from this where he listens to everyone and he is sober, and john adams as well, he is not always the worlds best listener. You might think that jefferson is great that he is so ideological that he cant hear what he doesnt want to hear. Does that sound familiar . We have that problem today and im on press that washington that doesnt have strong ideological commitments is like okay, lets get to the facts, i want to hear both sides carefully and ill make up my mind. So jefferson is not the best listener and john adams is not the world best listener and in some of these people are better at projected, but now the union. Just like franklin he understands this join or die appears in may 1754 on the same page, actually a to the young officer George Washington and this is Benjamin Franklin talking about him at age 22. He understands from a Military Point of view and that unless the colonies in together, they are done for. So its big, he is a continental. And who is at his right hand throughout the American Revolution . Basically pretty early on as Alexander Hamilton. To borrow a phrase, Alexander Hamilton american. Not just about massachusetts the way the john adams may be, he doesnt have a single loyalty to any one state, he comes from abroad and he loves america as a whole and the key idea is join or die National Security and not what washington is advocating in the early 1780s they will become the first, which is far more influential than anything that madison wrote and it is a geostrategic argument because all together and we have to get rid of this and so they have the 30 Million People that they need to persuade, they need to have in this strong individual union and they are different kingdom, very clean, getting involved and that is not conducive to living and washingtons first draft, he has an army on the continent and he gives it up and he doesnt make himself king or emperor, he could have. But he understands liberty and union are one and inseparable. And that includes and the big idea and hes a southerner that understands more than spent time in the west. The embodiment of the American Union and so washington is the embodiment of america. Another veteran that you also linked. That is also John Marshall that we have learned about in your book, what is his role in the conversation. I encourage you to write a book about lincoln. And lincolns relationship to the founding and i love that book. The founders is in the title. And the last founder. And he dies in 1836 and so he is the last founder and he is continuing to have an impact into the 1830s were hamilton, and so franklin died in 1790 and washington dies in 1799 and hamilton is still in 1804 and famously they are going to die on july july 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence. So throughout all of this martial is vindicating martial vision. The great nationalist, sharing the continental us flag of George Washington, under whom he fought at valley forge and if the viewer at valley forge with washington and hamilton, you understand that we need to support the troops if we do not we are dead and adams wasnt there, they dont feel it in their bones. It is immense respect for washington and there is immense respect for hamilton with his brilliant lawyer and marshall uses him and his legal ideas about the bank and many other things. One other thing that he does as he is a National Speaker and a good listener and i talked about relationships between the founders, so jefferson and madison team up. And adams makes enemies, he is a loner, he teams up only with abigail, but then, you know, he is in a feud with hamilton, even though hamilton was trying to help him in various ways, and he starts off friendly, but then they become, you know, rivals and so its important. Jefferson and madison team up, hamilton and Washington Team up and marshall finds a team. And the team works particularly well when they combine more than south and in particular massachusetts and virginia. Okay . So marshall is virginia and think about all the other ones, virginia and massachusetts, rhetorically the first president and Vice President are going to be George Washington and john adams and so did jefferson and adams is Vice President and eldredge is another massachusetts guy and so the answer your question is if the last founder, he strengthens the judiciary, he is a washington man, continental is, and he finds a partner from another region and together they make a very Impressive Team just as washington and hamilton do and just as madison and jefferson do. I think its fair to say. If we are not exactly members of the federalist party, we are sympathetic to it. But its a very good word for thomas jefferson. I agree with what you said and after all, he is who he is. So what d