The one that ended his presidency when it did surface because they did do a cover up. How to that 18. 5 minute gap happened. It is pretty clear from the expert panel that there was an intentional situation. And i decided to put an appendix who had access, the fact that there were five to nine who intentionally erase the content. It occurs on a tape on june 20, 1972 which is his first day back in the office. It is his first conversation after the arrest. And i think it is very flexible. Its something because of the timing of when this comes up that again shows his defense that he knew nothing about until march 21 is alive. But it is ironic that more conversations that same week occurred, this happened to be one and he had to flush it out and that is when they decided to erase it. I also included everyone who had access to that tape at that time and it runs with some people that are wellknown, some that are still alive. When was the taping system and play in the white house . No, it wasnt. The reason that it goes in is pretty basic. He had a system in the white house and his staff took regular notes and wrote this up before and then afterwards what happened, focusing on anything to tell anybody that was in there with the decision was and then he would have a contemporaneous record of it so a person can go out of the office when he had a number of staff in that system broke down pretty quickly what happens next is not covered in the tapes and this was the killer, if you will. Johnson had a switch that he could control and nixon if he was in the room the recording equipment comes on. And camp david is was activated as well. And that is the taping system that is key to the voice were key to the locator system. And so it only plays if he is in the room. In other words of the cleaning crew is in the oval office talking while they are cleaning, it will not start the taping system because it leaves the president there with his locator button. Even al haig later became his chief of staff had no idea it was voice activated system and didnt learn about it until they had told about it by alex butterfield. And that was actually in response to my testimony in which was recorded. When did you leave the white house . I left with ehrlichman on april 30. I was very open with my colleagues and the fact that this isnt going to work in april of 1973 he removes all of us. And so its very interesting to you can tell how frightened he is because he doesnt want anyone to turn on him. And at that point i have never talked about the president present to my lawyer or the prosecutors or anyone else. I didnt know if it was pillaged. We havent worked that out yet. I started this process to find out how he could make a mix out of the presidency. That was the driving force. And he is not as coupler and as sharp as we thought he was and he leaves evidence that is conspicuous. And im wondering how many areas of his presidency when people and students and scholars go through they are wednesday where else to does this apply. Was he useless about his staff. And maybe some of these other of competence are really the result of the staff so he kind of take charge of it and its a mess. What was it like to work in the white house when he listened to the tapes and a lot of conspiracies in a lot of different groups working. I knew a little bit about that in the Johnson White house. There was a unique feature that was somewhat fatal and what it was a need to know white house if you were working on something you were for britain to talk about it. Kennedy very quickly, the numbers are on the screen if you would like to participate. The callin program went john dean. Check out our numbers they are divided by time zones. When did the white house the watergate hearings have been when were you testifying and what happened to you after that . The watergate hearings started in may of 1973. I dont testify until june 25. Im an early witness and i have been cooperating with the committee. They knew the general areas of my testimony. They had no idea that i would bring in some of my testimony a 60,000 word document. And i never wouldve made it 50,000 words. It wouldve been closer to 6000 words. Nevertheless i ended up spending the entire day reading it in a monotone to keep my voice. And also i dont want to emphasize anything more than the others and so i said im just going to put it out there. So my first day was eight hours of reading and the next four days was question and answer. Then what happens. Very quickly, and i apologize to our viewers. Much did it cost you financially to go through that . I have never really try to figure it out. I hired a lawyer, and he was fair. Fair. I was in a position where i could afford it. So it was and also i had a lawyer i had a next line lawyer and he insisted we do it his way or no way and he for a long time pushed for immunity and it turned out to be a smart move. It delayed things, gave me time to prepare testimony, gave us time to see how things were going to shake out and ultimately when it came down to what the government could or could not do with me they would have had great difficulty prosecuting me because of the immunity. Immunity. I have the case that oliver north would later have where it was clear the court said you cannot said you cannot have it both ways. You cant have somebody testify under immunity and then turn around and prosecute them. It has to be one of the other. I have been informally immunized by the prosecutors formally by the senate and as my lawyer said it will take them years to even figure out they cant do it if they want to litigated. I didnt start down this road to beat the rap. I will take responsibility for whatever ive done. I wish you and your good lawyering that gives me the options. So that sorted itself out. Of what were you convicted and what was the penalty . I pled guilty to conspiracy to obstruct justice which is the only offense i know. I was originally sentenced to two to four years. I testified in the trial of ehrlichman and others, and others and it looks pretty clear that the judge was trying to make it look like i would get the strict sentence. I i was in the Witness Protection Program for a year and a half. I dont actually go to jail or prison. I am in the safe house and and every day they bring me into the Prosecutors Office it is not exactly a hard time. Time. I eat in restaurants and sleep in this place at night and that i i picked up the next morning by the marshals my socalled incarceration lasts 120 120 days and the judge says time served. You have been patient. Very patient, since 1963 when john kennedy was assassinated. Just trying to get to the bottom. I hope you i hope you dont cut me off. Am i still on the air . We are listening. Go ahead. Be quick. Thank you for mentioning oliver north. All the way from John Kennedys assassination i i dont know if you have seen the new photos of george bush senior and dealey plaza on the day kennedy was assassinated, through watergate when george bush senior asked nixon to resign through iran contra when george bush senior. Ronald where are you going with all of this . Go ahead and wrapup. I want to compliment john dean for having the guts to say any of this because so many people have been killed their books about how many people have killed. A lot going on there. We are goin lose i would be amazed but their were hundreds of people. Host how do conspiracy theories connecting dots that may or may not have been a part how does that begin . Guest some of the most aggressive conspiracy theories are pushed what i call conspiracy. Entrepreneurs who write books about them, sell books about them, always fatally flawed because the conspiracy theorist does not want all of the hard information. There is never an answer. If you if you show them at true fact they will invent a false fact to replace it. It is a sad information defined a set situation because they have too much currency simplistic answers to complex problems, distort history, and not healthy for the body politic. Pushed primarily by conspiracy entrepreneurs. Host jack in providence, rhode island on book tv with john dean. Caller good afternoon. Lets be candid. The media hated nixon in particular the Washington Post. The Roosevelt Administration corrupted. Loaded with communists. I would like to get into watergate. Tell watergate. Tell me about this lady, the lady from asia. The helped him with the South Vietnamese negotiating concerning the paris peace talks. Host thank you very much. Guest he makes is a lot of things. I have no expertise. I have nothing in the material i looked at the behavior being some how a back channel to make a deal with nixon promising South Vietnam a better deal than lyndon johnson. A lot of hot air and conspiracy theories. Host mark felt became known. Guest not really for this reason. The conversation in this book where i have gone over to talk to henry peterson. Told me that he was leaking. General counsel from one of the major news organizations Time Magazine was Getting Better information or the Washington Post has been worried about the fact they might be getting involved in obstruction of justice printing false stuff to tell me that he was leaking. He said, i have not talked to the attorney general, but he should have it at the white house. House. I gave a full report, so nixon knew about it. It was true. Abcawun next call for john dean comes from jonathan in california. Hello. Caller hello. If he had not leaked information, what the coverup had succeeded and president makes and gone on to finish his second term . Guest i do not think so. Inside information really very broad. A couple of good books about him. There is one called week. He really wants the job of director. The old hoover cronies help him with this. I do not think this would have made a lot of difference. While he while he is aggravating the situation and has an fbi that at times is out of control and leaking information that makes it apparent that the acting director does not have control in the big picture i do not think it changes anything. Host michael. Caller good afternoon. When you testified i was 12. For one thing i remember is when you told people that youve hoped that it did not prevent young people from becoming active in politics. Well, i did and and have been ever since, and i wanted to ask you what has happened to john dean since watergate in your personal career as well as anything in politics . Guest i had i had a successful career in business in california where i lived. I was able to retire at 60 years of age. I i am now on my eighth book since retirement. I write columns, do a fair amount of lecturing and am active in politics through the perspective of a commentator. A commentator. Host how could nixon have survived it . Guest very easy. Truths. The people who later should have gone day one. He does not learn about the breakin until march 17 when i tell him. He he should have been told that and have the options. But he just could not do it. He adopted the coverup and took it for granted. You can here him. He is not active in it but approves every action of the coverup until he gets deeply active. The end of the first coverup and then the coverup of the coverup. Host terry in indiana on book tv. Caller years ago i heard i believe it was John Ehrlichman claimed that he was providing information to the democratic party. Did you hear anything about that . Guest never heard that. Never did. Host to diary entries have come out recently. Have have you had a chance to peruse . Guest not new entries. He did a new version of the diary. He would dictate these things. I listened to a number of atoms. I was listening to all of them. It is sort of a flat voice where he is often in a car a car or Something Like that being driven home in dictating the days events. He was very disciplined and detailed. It is a wonderful document that was buried for years. Years. I doubt watergate would have sorted itself out if he had not buried this. So it was lost for years. Just before he passed away he started working on it, cleaning it up did not delete anything but making sure people understood how it worked and cleaning it up. It is a valuable document. It is great to understand something not clear from the tapes. Host when you were sitting in the oval office and told her was a cancer growing around his presidency, what was that like . Guest i remember feeling conflicted. Someone said hunt is demanding 120,000 or he we will talk about things he did on march 19. 19th. Before that i had just started dealing with nixon february, february 27. I am taking his temperature and he is taking mine. I am not sure how much he knows and he is pushing me to write a bogus report harder and harder. I. I say, this man really needs to understand as graphic terms what is happening and why it is happening, and it is criminal. I i did not mince words with him. The surprise to me is that makes and reacts the way he does not respond when i tell him that someone is committing perjury that we should not be committing perjury. I tell him these people we will cost 1 million, which is about five and a half five and a half today, and he says, i know where we can get that. Perjury is a tough rap to prove. We are not going to worry about that. I am surprised at his reaction. The next event in the sequence that occurred when james mcclure, one of the men arrested during watergate released a letter saying there had been perjury at trial and he jumped into watergate with both feet which forces nixon to take action. Sending the defendants up to congress. They will get get 30 or 40 year sentences for a bungled burglary. He put the hammer to them. Those events for snakes and to deal the situation and bring it to ahead host who was the judge and how did he get the case . Guest he was the chief judge of the United StatesDistrict Court for the district of columbia. He got the case, while it normally would come up in rotation, he picked this for himself. He may have gotten the original breakin trial for those who were arrested in watergate through the normal system and as chief judge taken the option to stay with the successor trial. He became as knowledgeable as any judge. He he is a republican and takes on the president of the United States no question about it. He pushes the limits as a Federal District judge with some of his actions example 40 year sentences for breakin. That pushes the fifth amendment right a long way. So he so he does not necessarily get the hall of fame for being a good judge. He gets a lot of credit for pushing this to a conclusion because of his actions. Host do people under 50 no who you are . Guest we have talked about this. Before i do the lectures the class i do it in the instructor says, call your call your parents or grandparents and see if you should attend this lecture. And they all show up. Host here is john deans latest book the nixon defense what he knew and when he knew it. You you are watching book tv on t1. T1 bringing you book tv each night and prime time. Time. Authors of books about the presidency of Richard Nixon. And now from washington dcs politics and prose bookstore Elizabeth Drew talks about her book originally published in 1965 covering the dissolution of the next and administration from september 1973 until august 1974. This is about an hour. They were lovely. It is lovely to be back here. First time since my last bovi it is lovely to be back here. First time since my last book. Always welcoming to me. I have to tell you, publishers and authors scratch and crawl. Place. But they always say you are on to me and it is lovely. Brad and melissa have carried on the tradition that carl began with the energy and all of you coming tonight is a testimony to the job they do and the reverence for books that we all share. Richard nixon is a hard man to let go of. I remember as a child in black and white fuzzy television seeing this odd man on the ticket for Vice President and there was a problem of him taking money from a secret fund. He was talking about his daughters dog and i thought he is interesting. He never stopped being interesting. Richard nixon was never boring. He was probably as interesting in his afterpresidency as he was during his presidency. I chronicle in the book the beginning with sparrow agnew being in trouble and i had said to my editor at the new yorker the very justly legendary william sean who said what are you thinking of writing next and i said i have a feeling we will change Vice President s and president s within the year. This was a wild thought at the time. And so we agreed i would write a journal, not a diary, but watch the events and talk about them, we didnt know where it was going. As he said at the time we dont know how to change Vice President s. We dont know how to change Vice President s, we didnt know how to impeach a president , we didnt know how to get another president , it was all kind of made up as we went along. And one of the most distressing things now is the loose way in which the word impeachment is tossed around. And i may not get to this but if there was such a thing the way nixon was almost impeached because the model coming from the center and being bipartisan. The country could accept it because it was arrived at in a very fair way. So Richard Nixon had no choice but to resign finally. He held out and held out but the republican senators went to see him and didnt want to conduct a trial. They wanted to get it over with and wanted jerry ford in there before the election. So he got on the helicopter to go to the western ranch house, retire and never be heard from again so we thought. Well, that is not my nixon. When he got to california he was understandablely deeply depressed. He worked for decades to get to the highest place anybody in the country politically can get to and it all went smash. He kind of knew in his head he did a fair amount to bring it on. But he always believed people were out to get him. This was what brought about his downfall. He could not tell the difference between opponents and enemies. And this was a big problem for him. But he was depressed and not well and had something from a trip to the middle east. But he wasnt going to give up. He saw himself as being treated lesser and lower than others. He was poor. His family was dysfunctional which wasnt a word then but this was a dysfunctional family. He had been looked down on as a kid, he was awkward, he read a lot, wasnt poplar and n