At the Bigger Picture of health, and that means the health and well being of authors, because while it may not be that their best strategy is maximum enforcement. We need people to create content. We need authors. We need entrepreneurs, and we need a very robust Public Domain. We need to be able to access that information that is created out there, these creations of the mind. I guess thats really the three Interest Groups that are interest in copyright. Authors, entrepreneurs, a 21st century version of the print press, and the Public Domain. When i look at the hearings that are being held in congress today, its very easy for the authors, the songwriters, the photographers to find their voice in congress. If you are a successful entrepreneur, you know, google gets to talk to congress. Mark zuckerberg and call of obama as he did earlier this month. They get heard. The voice that is hardest to get out into the general discourse is the voice of the Public Domain. I would like to see people from the humanities, anthropologists, historians, economists, scientists, biologists, people, a very robust discussion about what copyrights mean for people and what they mean for us in our society. I think we might need a new vocabulary. I dont think the word property quite covers the interaction of rights and liberties and goal of the copyright act. I think we have to be very careful about making our intellectual property intellect much about property. Im going to close with two thoughts. I think you may have read in the press about the loss of that was brought by the faulkner a state naming woody allen for the movie midnight in paris. Owen wilson in that movie paraphrases, very famously, he said the past is not dead. Its not even past. And woody allen was sued for Copyright Infringement based on his use of that snippet. I can see where the faulkner estate would come up with the idea that they would be able to claim some kind of Copyright Infringement on the basis of that usage, little samplings of music have to be licensed. Everything that appears in a motion picture, the pictures on the wall, the Product Placement is not just about selling goods. Its also about making sure that you have the right to publicly display everything you see up on the screen in the cinema. Everything is licensed. So i can see where they would have the idea that taking a snippet out of the faulkner book also ought to be licensed. Fortunately, the judge, but you should judge said no, that was fair use by woody allen. And i think that case illustrates that if we give absolute control over literary property to authors, it really amounts to censorship, censorship that is just as pernicious as those dark days in great britain, you know, you were deciding who got to print books based on whether their protestant or catholic, support the curtains or the loyalists. It just doesnt make any sense. And i think its particularly appropriate puritans. To end on that note of the Tennessee Williams festival because if theres one thing about Tennessee Williams worker, and that is, the notion of censoring language i think would have been analogous became. This is a man who had such facility with words. And its not just a string of words that come out of its like hearing poetry. But its also how powerful you can manipulate a single word. All i have to do is say stella. You know what i mean. All i have to do is say mendacity, and you know what i mean. One word. So i think words are important. I think authors are important. I think copyrights are important, and help the other literary festivals will also Start Talking about this, because the issues, its about to us all. And i thank you for your time. [applause] i think we have a few minutes for questions. Always the horrifying part of do you think its time to divide types of media up . So that we dont end up with copyright laws [inaudible] what do you think about ebooks . If i go buy a hard copy, its mine. If i buy an ebook, im sort of getting them [inaudible] the question is whether not we should have a set of different roles based on the type of media, and what do i think about Digital Rights management. I think that one of the things that people, the scholars are writing about is whether or not we need to set up different rules based on the type of working questions. I think that is vitally important. I think its a helpful direction, because what works in a music marketplace, not talking about sampling snippets of music. If thats the way the music marketplace wants to operate, thats great, but maybe in a literary cinematic storytelling marketplace we want to be able to say that the past is not dead and not worry about getting a lawsuit. I think that is certainly one of the areas where scholars are looking very hard. The other thing thats telling about Digital Rights management is, part of the story we didnt know is how powerful technologists, how powerful that the voice, the entrepreneurs have about what happens in the field of intellectual property. The libraries and archives are limping along under a 1950 1976 version of fair use rights. But every time a satellite provider, cable company, cable wasnt around in 1976 either. Digital Music Distribution when, when technologists want the law to be changed and updated and refreshed, they go to congress and for better or worse Congress Amends the statute, the copyright act. I think its been amended 35 times since 1976. Not once, you know, we really updated what rules applied to educational institutions. Certainly poor libraries are just dying under this very archaic system. One of the things that technologists got was something called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and it was passed i think in 1998 or 99. Its about 15 years old, and it did two things. It protected the Internet Service provider. If you followed certain rules you would be in a safe harbor. So if the user goes on facebook or interest and post in french and content, facebook isnt going to be responsible. Youtube is not going to be responsible to the Internet Service provider is not responsible. So long as they have set up a procedure for takedown notice. So btcr song, your photograph, your work of bush without your permission in an inferential man on a website, you contact the Internet Service provider and you say this is an infringement, take it down. If they take it down, theres like a Response Period and all those, formalities that are followed, but that shields the Internet Service provider from liability. If you are the blogger, if youre a lawyer standing of giving a talk about copyright, youve got to worry about the rights of management a good thing. Internet Service Providers have been taken care of. The second thing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act did was it made it illegal to tinker with Digital Rights management. With things like with the ebooks where all you do, you are licensing access to the digital media. The person can protect that median and say that you cant lend it. If you try and use it in a way that is not authorized, i can take it back from you. And this is something that, that was a very fundamental change because once you buy a book, theres something called the for sale doctrine. Once you buy a copy of a work, a book, a work. I can lend it. I can do anything i want with it. I can, the old blockbuster, i can release these things. Its my work. My copy, i own it. With digital copies on a Digital Rights regime, all of a sudden my ownership of that copy doesnt give me as much right. Honestly i think that will be talked about. I understand why Digital Rights management makes sense, but i dont think it was properly calibrated to say, you know, let us protect the entrepreneur who made all this digitization possible, not that entrepreneurs working in the Public Domain, leaders, people who want to share information, and thats important. And i think it may have been, that was one of the things i had in my mind when i said the entrepreneurs are well represented. Authors are well represented, but we really do need to think about that Public Domain and all that that represents. Any more questions . I have a question. If you send a document to an agent or a publisher, especially one that is not well known, is it more dangerous for someone to grab your work now, or [inaudible] i dont think anyone, you know, i dont really think theres a danger in sending a manuscript to an agent. Theres no incentive for the agent to steal. Is also, you know, its an easy problem to remedy, and somebody would steal in a circumstance like that would absolutely be in bad faith. They deserve all the copyright penalties and lawsuits you can bring down on them. And you really dont see people bringing claims about forwarding emails and things like that. Its just the notion that weve got a set of rules that would violate every single day of our lives, and that just doesnt make sense. Because the threat is out there. The chances that somebody would complain about an image in a presentation at a book, literary festival, our small. But the consequences are dire. Litigation is expensive. And why, you know, why have the uncertainty . It affects what we do. And its a form of censorship. The pathetic thing is that anybody with a smart phone can google steam punk star trek and see exactly and talk about but i cant put it up here. That doesnt make sense, so thanks. Thank you so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] visit booktv. Org to watch any of the programs you see here online. Type the author or book title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search. You can share anything you see on booktv. Org easily bite licking share on upper left side of the page and selecting the format. Booktv streams live online for 48 hours every weekend top nonfiction books and authors. Booktv. Org. Alvin townley recounts the imprisonment of american soldiers in hanoi during the vietnam war next on booktv. He highlights the 11 men who were singled out by the North Vietnamese as leaders of resistance movement. He reports that these men, dubbed the alcatraz eleven, were placed in solitary cells where they face repeated physical and mental torture. This is about 45 minutes. Well, good morning and welcome to all of you. Today, for our discovery saturday series, we have a special guest, and author who has written four books, and hes going to discuss the latest of those four books. I have it in my hands entitled defiant the pows who endured vietnams most infamous prison, the women who fought for them, and the one who never returned. Hes going to tell us about his book, and then he is going to answer some questions and then hell be available to autograph copies of the book if you would like. Now, we are privileged in the course of his presentation to also have some of the pows that are mentioned in the book with us here today. We have ross terri was sitting right over here, sir. We have Ralph Gaither who is sitting over here, and we have scotty moore can. Where is Scotty Morgan . Right over here. Are there any others . Yes, sir. Bob flynn. Any others . Listen, gentlemen [applause] let me tell you two things by way of introduction of our author. His name is alvin townley, but i was given a copy of this book about a week ago. And i thought well, okay, if im going to introduce alpha and, but i do see what this book is all about. Ive read several other accounts by stockdale and others, relative to the pow experience in vietnam, and i have had extensive conversations with apple stockdale over the course of time both as a mentor and as an advisor in the Navy War College and i had the privilege of going through the hanoi hilton while i was still on active duty and seeing as it is today which is basically a tourist attraction. So i thought i probably ought to read it. The way im going to do this is im going to read an early chapter, im going to read a middle chapter and then im going to read the last chapter. That doesnt work. It doesnt work. It is a great book. Its written in a very captive, capturing narrative style. Its the kind of book that takes you up and absolutely embraces you with the human spirit and our ability to adapt and the heroic measures that were taken by those that were captured and held for extended periods of time. But im not going to do about it and im not going to read the book im going to let the author do that for you. And without further ado, folks, alvin townley. Its an honor to have him here with us. [applause] thanks, general. What the general didnt tell you, hes a marine corps general in what he didnt tell you was the reason is only going to read three chapters is thats all a marine can do. [laughter] any marines in the audience by the way . Anybody who stands up for the core . One, two, three. Firsfirst of all i want to sit t an honor it is to be here in the blue angel atriums speaking under for skyhawks which is a unique experience. Im thrilled to have for former pows, former convicts in the audience with us. Everywhere i ago i think the pows like to make sure that one or two folks in the audience keep me honest. So if i mess up you guys let me know. I want everybody to imagine for one second that youre a Lieutenant Commander bob shoemaker, 30 years old, you have a wife and a newborn son at home. You were the top of your class at u. S. Naval academy. You were a finalist in the poll asked about program. You are a Navy Fighter Pilot and for those of you who know navy who you know navy fighter cause, you think youre the finest in the world. You fly, was, navy anyone from the air force your . All right. Sorry, gentlemen. Might be a rough morning for y you. You are 30 and you are flying these machines, all of these jet machines around you. So you think the you can control the uncontrollable because basically strapping into an f6 or f8 is like stopping on to a rocket. Nobody can control that. You have the confidence to think that you can. You in complete control of the world. Its february 9, 1965, the first day of the air war against North Vietnam. Your 100 miles off the coast of North Vietnam on the uss coral see. February 9. All those character traits, all that confidence, thats who you are. This is bob shumaker on february 11, 2 days later. Being captured by the North Vietnamese in a flooded field somewhere in North Vietnam. In 15 seconds, bob shumaker went from being in complete control of his world, completely sure that nobody in the entire country of North Vietnam could shoot him and his f8 consider down. Theres no way. Thats what happened. He gets hit. He was going to try to say mayday, mayday and evasive got out the syllable may and realized itd go ahead and punch out he would never finish his medication discipline wouldve been in the ground. He popped out, ejected under 1000 feet. He thinks his chute opened at about 35 feet, maybe 50 feet. In training he learned to do multipoint landing. You disperse the impact of landing out several different body parts. You roll. Is a visited a one point landing. Right on his rear end. He fractured his back and there he was in North Vietnam without his aircraft, without his weapon, without his squad took him without his aircraft carrier, without all those things that made him the worlds best Fighter Pilot. So you said you thinking about his situation and the first thought that came to his head was and what should i do next or how much going to get out of this. Actually back a couple weeks before he deployed. Life insurance salesman had come by his house offering to sell life insurance. He declined comment on the ground in North Vietnam he wished he bought more. So that began his stint in captivity. He was taken captive ever 11, 1965. This really wasnt that big of a problem because the war was just beginning and we were at the United States of america. There was no way that the United States was going to leave what of the best Fighter Pilots in North Vietnam as a pow. Bobbitt figured he would be home by christmas. Will, that was 1965. He was there all 1965. He was there all 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969. We have a new president. 1970. The United States begins withdrawing troops from North Vietnam or from South Vietnam rather. And they begin wondering, is america going to lead us . We are withdrawing our troops. The war is not over. Whats going to happen to us . 1971, 1972. The pows did not come home until 1973. For bob shumaker, if youre still imagine your bob shumaker, that meant that you were in prison for eight years. Eight years where you didnt know if youre going to get home ever. But you made it through the. You were there with a bunch of other guys in 1965. These guys who you are with were state wrestling champions, air force guys will appreciate one of the folks was a former u. S. Air force thunderbird pilot. They were fathers. They were husbands. They were sons, and they all ended up in the prison. North in these would take them up to hanoi and at some of you did was here today can tell you, it wasnt a very pleasant journey. But it all came together at hoa lo president was built in the late 1800s by the