And well rap up at 11 30 eastern with paul kengor and his book, 11 principles of a ray garre kin. Reagan conservative. Coming up next, jack devine, coauthor of good hunting, talks about his 32year career with the Central Intelligence agency. He headed up the cias efforts to arm the mujahideen in afghanistan and was involved in the iran contra affair. He also helped to track down fbi mole robert hanson. This event was hosted by the association of former intelligence officers. Its just over an hour. Good afternoon, everybody. For those of you who have not purchased the book, you need to go out and buy the book. For those of you who already have a book in your possession, you need to turn to the photographs. [laughter] and find a wonderful photo of jack devine, a much younger, slimmer, longerhaired jack devine undercover in santiago, chile. Not for the inhouse audience, but for the athome audience, i am going to read just a little bit from the handbill so those at home can follow along with us. Many consider jack devine to be one of the legendary spymasters of our time. He was in chile when [inaudible] fell. He ran Charlie Wilsons war in afghanistan. He had far much to do with iran contra for his own taste, and he actually tried to stop it at one point. He caught Pablo Escobar in colombia. He tried to warn george tenet that there was a bullet coming back at him for iraq. In 1986 he walked into our director, bill casey, and said we had a tremendous breakthrough yesterday, we deployed the stinger missell, and we shot down three helicopters. Casey responded, jack, this changes it all, doesnt it . Mr. Devine is a 32year career officer with the cia. He began in the 1960s. He has a brand new book out called good hunting an american spymasters story, which is on sale today, and hell be glad to sign questions after todays session. Hell also take q a. Jack devine was already an established Field Operations officer when i joined cia, and if you can keep a secret, ill share a little bit of history with this small, intimate room. [laughter] jack devibe was the kind of devine was the kind of Clandestine Service officer that i wanted to be when i grew up. Please join me in welcoming jack devine. [applause] what jim really meant to say at the end of that is he wanted to be like me because of that picture. [laughter] and those of you that have gone to see american hustle, they are plaid pants. I had long hair and a moustache. And i could have easily at that point in time played in the role of american hustle. By design i didnt put the color picture, but jim thought they were pretty fashionable at the time. And i believe peter sort of tormented me once saying do you still have the pants for the museum . [laughter] you cant tell a book by its cover. And this isnt because of vanity. I love the cover of the book. And if you look at it, one of my employees took the book home and showed it to her young daughter, and she said, well, mommy, i thought he was a nice man. [laughter] and with a book you have to have some fun, and there are some private jokes in here. The picture with the pants is funny because ive often heard how can you be a spy at 65 . We wont put the weight in, but at 65. Those of you, and theres a lot of practitioners in here, and its wonderful to see them all. Its not about what you look like or your size, you get it done when the invisible spaces exist. So that was sort of a private joke. But the picture has some roots that go back in my career, and as i said, i always thought i was a pretty affable person. One day when i was in a Central American sort of country because i cant say which country but the ambassador was going up the elevator with tom [inaudible] former chief of station this south vietnam, last one out. And tom said to the ambassador, you know, i want to send devibe out for that it is task devit for that task, and he said you dont mean that big, sinisterlooking guy . [laughter] so i went home and i mentioned this to my wife, and i said, you wont believe what the ambassador said. Big, sinisterlooking guy. She said, well, jack, if i walked in and saw your face and didnt know you in your office, id turn around and walk out. [laughter] so i went to a fellow thats in this room, and i believe he has his back to me because i asked him to, i didnt want to look him in the eye. And i said, jerry [laughter] you know, what do you think . He said, well, jack, did you ever see how you make a point . [laughter] so, however, what it really gets to in a way is the roleplaying that operators undertake in their mission. And if you fast forward when i was running Latin America Division in the 199092 period, as you remember, president clinton wanted to remove the dictators in haiti. And tony lake was a director, and sandy berg was deputy director. So they called me down and said, look, we want you to go down and tell the dictator to get out of town. Now, this speaks to my iq. I thought it was great idea. [laughter] theres the chief down there, however, and ill add a little note on him. So i went down, and the office had to report to the police of chief at the time. Id gone out to the voodoo doctor and put some powder on him, and he came because he was fearful. God knows why. But the, when i went down, he came to the chiefs house. It was just the three of us, and there was water. He wouldnt touch the water. And then for those of you that engaged in poisoning, you realize that pumpkin soup is one of of the best things to disguise poison in. In comes the maid with pumpkin soup. [laughter] so i thought he was going to die on the spot. Now, when you get instructions from the white house on your script its and it was in this case now, you say this, and he will say that. Then you say this, and he says ive never been in an operational meeting where you can script it that way. And im irish. So when i went down to the room, i decided bad jack has to show up. So he was seated there, and i said, look, i want to tell you a story that a latin friend of mine told me. And the latin friend said, you know, you are like that train you americans are like the train roaring down the track, and were the latins in the middle of the track, and we see you coming, and we puff out our chest. We say, bring it on. And theres a very important lesson if youre working in latin america. So i thought that was just the right poetic thing to lean across and say you do not want to be that rooster. Now, i thought i made my point, but it wasnt tonys script, and they didnt leave even though i had a large bag beside the menacing message. A week later jimmy carter was at the table negotiating with the general, and they were not budging. And he received a message from the president of the United States saying you should leave the meeting. And he kept jawboning. And we were ready. The cia was ready with its covert action capabilities, and the planes were off, taking off from the runway in florida, and a spotter notified the negotiators, and they folded on the spot. And the dictator, the chief of police specifically, went to florida. Where else would you go if youre a dictator and youre on the run . He got on the radio, and he said, oh, they sent this menacing guy down who threaten today kill me, my wife and my chirp. Now, i promise you i never said anything about the wife and children. [laughter] so what rhyme getting what im getting at is there is a role to play. I did a piece for homeland, a promotional piece. You know youve arrived in new york, and it was this that 30second piece at the back of a cab. One of the questions was how much covert action not covert action, how much is operational work like an actor . And i never thought about the question. But it is true. When you deal with foreign governments and foreign liaisons and youre dealing with assets and agents, you really do need to act. You have to be a good one. If you get beyond well, we should stick with the cover. It took me two years, again an iq issue, to come up with two words good hunting. I dont want need to explain it to people in the room, but its a very old adage used by operators. The first thing i see it noted in history is in kiplings jungle book. But if you look to some of the classic world war ii black and white movies where theyre organizing the partisan, and there was one, frankly, i named it before i saw this, they were breaking up the meeting. The parting [inaudible] was good hunting. I know i have signed cables, i dont know how many, but certainly more than a few where theres a certain point in an operation or youre doing something you say, good hunting. And i thought that captured a key part of the business, whether its hunting for a source of information or hunting for can si or hunting for bin laden or hunting for pablos copar be, its a escobar, its a key part of our business. If you go inside, and mike montgomery, every time i see him we arm wrestle. Hes got the strongest handshake in the u. S. Federal government. He looked at another picture, and it was a picture of me in the jump tower during the training so the book starts at the training but i tried to personalize it a little bit because if you didnt, when you went through the training, the operational training, then you did the paramilitary training. And if you were pre postworld war ii, you had to jump out of a plane. By 6ed it was optional. I was married with kids, two weeks off after all of this . I got it, im outta here. So i said to my wife, you know, i think im just going to go to the beach. I love the beach. She said, well, youre going to miss all that camaraderie. I said, yeah, i like them a lot, ill probably like them as time goes by theres a few here today but i said i think im going to enjoy the beach. And then i went to the farm, to the bar, and there was a colonel there. He said, jack, its better than sex. And i thought, well, okay, this is getting interesting. Then i took a second look at him, and i thought, look, hes missing a boat here. [laughter] so finally when i applied for different officers, and i didnt know better, i actually thought covert action took place in the covert action staff, so i put that down not knowing. And i went in and [inaudible] was the head of it. There was parachuting memorabilia. And i walked in, and he said, jack, have you jumped yet . Its the greatest thing a man can do. And i said, no, but im looking forward to it. [laughter] so not for camaraderie, but for careerism, i would jump out of a plane. I did that five times, and i will assure you, the colonel had it absolutely wrong. [laughter] but, and i didnt excel in demolitions either. Chris is here, and i dont know if you remember, we were down at the demolition training, and they literally came out with an instructor was missing a couple of figures and scarred as heck. He says, you know, its dangerous dealing with weapons. I got it, you dont have to speak any more. But then you blow up poles and detonating chords, and they burn at a certain rate. I dont remember the rate, but and so they would have six or seven poles, and i always thought to myself, add a couple more inches to give yourself a little more time. So pole one would go, policy two, four, five and then mine would go. They really didnt think it was as funny as i did. And in my file somewhere it says this man should not be allowed near explosives. [laughter] in 1986 i was responsible for more explosives than anybody in the history of the agency, so theres not necessarily a direct link there. But the last thing, if i can laugh at myself, was the brush pass. And today with electronics no one thinks about a physical brush pass. But i was in irving cantors district, and we had to [laughter] make a i had a beautiful location. It was wonderful. You couldnt see it from any angle, so i had my hand ready, it was going to to be the slight of hand. The instructor walked by and didnt put his hand out. So i was livid when i got to the bottom of the steps. I am a gentleman, but i did engage in a really gross hand signal. [laughter] now, not to worry too much about it, when i get back to camp that night, they said, oh, we have a treat, and the treat is for the first time we videoed the brush passes today. And needless to say, mine was the first one. But i retained that skill, and i was in amsterdam with my wife two years ago, and the waiter was being particularly solicitous. We had a little more wine, so i gave him the 20 euro pass. I mean, any new yorker would be proud of the handoff. But you know your wife. You look across, you know something is fundamentally wrong. Its that halfsmirk, halfsmile that really means trouble. And she said, what did you do . I said, i did a brush pats pass. She brush pass. She said, yeah, but he wasnt our waiter. [laughter] anyway, things got quite serious after that. It was great fun, and i feel nostalgic today because so many folks are here from my past. I ended up the very first assignment in chile, it was the most fortunate experience from an operational point of view. There were two places in the world that were high priority. One was vietnam, the other was chile. And the reason chile was so important was that the nixon nixon himself and Henry Kissinger felt that in the cold war so many of our children and grandchild have, you know, talked about the cold war. Its really talking about the [inaudible] so nixon viewed it as a red [inaudible] chile supporting a socialistturnedfar left latin mesh be caught in the sand witch and sandwich. He was elected with a plurality, but he was elected in a very democratic country that had a democratic history for many years. So an instruction went from the white house to the agency to the field station chief. Whos long dead, and i would like to mention he was great operator. European officer in many ways. And he wrote back a cable saying it cant be done. We dont have the infrastructure, theres not enough popular support, and its going to be very messy. And the response came back, give it a good college try. And it was put in government language, but that was it. And they did. They gave it their best shot. And i would, and it ended in disaster. There was a rogue group, not tied to the cia, that tried to kidnap the commander of the armed forces and killed him in the process, and the entire country turned in favor of i have yenty. And the, well, there are a couple lessons, but i think i want to make a key point right here. Many people confused the chile coup that took place in 73 with that misadventure. The next cable that came said cease and desist, you will not plot with the military. And that stayed in vogue until through the entire administration. In 1973 in september, actually in june there was a minicoup. A few highly intoxicated tank drivers pulled up in front of the palace, the commander in chief talked them back. Our analysis in the agency was, clearly, the military stood behind the constitution and would not overthrow. And that was june. Late june. And what happened, and we found out only later that it was at that moment that the chilean military went back and started to plot because it wasnt about the constitution, it wasnt about the economic policies, it was they were afraid that they were losing the discipline of the military ranks and that they were going to take charge of the coup, and it wouldnt be a junior coup. And that was when it began in earnest. As circumstances would have it. I received the first as circumstances would have it, i received the first report that first notified the u. S. Government that the chilean government was going to be overthrown. And it was three days before. And i didnt want even receive it personally i didnt even receive it personally. The call went to my wife who knew this asset who said im at the airport, and im leaving. Therell be a coup on september 11th, tell jack. And i was drug out of a restaurant to get that message. That was the first time. Three days before we learned. And then there was a second report, and at that point we had sent a message, and the rest of the show you though story you know. Pin they pinochet came to power. What surprised everybody, all the opposition parties, we contributed and i personally went out and worked newspapers and Political Parties and my friends to support the opposition. But that is quite different. Did we contribute to the environment . Yes. What was the weight of it . I would say in my analysis the government really fell of its own Economic Conditions and its policies, and my expectation, frankly, is that if wed got on the an election, that he would have lost, and we might have had a different outto come. When outcome. When pinochet came to power, we were just not expecting the opposition to stay. It was a democratic country, theyd bring order, and then thered be an election. You couldnt find anybody that would tell you theyd be around for 19 years. And then the human rights violations, which were huge, and that surprised etch. Took us a everyone. Took us a while to find out about it s. And when we did, the relationship chilled with pinochet. When i was getting ready to leave, the chief said, jack, what do you think . Write a memo. Im an add advocate of covert action. Remember, i had the long hair and the pants, and i said, well, we ought to use covert action and get rid of pinochet. So that was where my mind was x i dont think i was alone on that. So i think in the world out there theres a view that we were strong supporters of the military government. Just isnt true. Foreign affairs magazine, which comes out next week, takes the chile chapter and reduces it to half the distance to fit the length of their articles. And its title. Titled what really happened in four different places, and chiles one of them. Its such a hot button even today that it surprises me. I got ahead of myself in a way because this book isnt about the heavy into the espionage part. You cant really write about it because so many of the agents, you know, you cant write about agents. This is about the action. And for those not audiences like this, but, you know, over the years people get confused between covert and clandestine. And we all know that covert is the james bond, never meet an agent, never take a report, never do an accounting. And then the espionage is the George Smiley plodding along, getting his agent, handling it as so there are the two different types. This is the action part. And not only do i believe its an essential part, i believe its going to be and should be a major role of state craft. The stimulus for the book came because of another author, and we are not going to mention him because we to not want to promote his book [laughter] but when tim wrote his book saying that, you know, the agency was a rogue element and that covert action never works, i was inspired, and thats the nice word, to see if we couldnt come up and point out that actually cias made up of a lot of very fine people and that action not only works, but it needs to be applied. Somewhere at the end im sure someone will have questions about where we are today. But that is one of the key themes in the book. On james on sean connery and covert action, i was in an undisclosed country. Dont google