Arabia degenerated the bosnian campaign in the balkans were still dealing with the demons of this the al qaeda ideology from essentially what coal states or countries were doing. It is a verifiable bids people say isis cancer money from the saudis but they dont have to take this home please. He was killed but before that he become so self sufficient by running oilwells kidnapping or cuban trafficking or extortion so rich the osama bin on an ast there of a subsidiary for the lot and i dont think anyone truly knows how much theyre making but theyre making millions of dollars every day and every month the board to read they take a charge taxes this is what they want people and cities and towns it is the village of a thousand people every member has to pay taxes that doesnt count what is get off the top. So we could say our allies are not doing enough but they are part of the coalition theyre dropping bombs there using the former spiritual mentors in order to do that so one of the ways they made some much money is repeated governments paid hundreds of millions of dollars in ransom money the country has denied that they do this and they are hopping mad. One more question. Recently decided to keep forces in afghanistan are they interested . Theyre fighting a the taliban. When you have chaos the extremists will rise to a top takeover because they have better discipline with a more coherent narrative narrative, they kill anyone in their way because they dont care about being killed. We did it get to where they are palestine, libya, yemen they have a significant bridge in the Sinai Peninsula and theyre not like iraq and syria an elegy to think there toppling hold governments but they have a presence for sure this is one of the reasons were not pulling out of afghanistan. Eight you very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] no, they have their own sovereign land, sovereign state which is bigger than britain, there are no their own territory. So they are very, very selfsufficient, very independent, nobody can kick them out unless you send troops on the ground and so on. Thats the three major character. Islamic state from alqaeda, theres another one that we can refer to which is social media, you know, they are not dependent on the mainstream media. All the corners of the words and they can communicate with their people, and their enemies without any intervention, without anybody to med mediate e in the middle of the process, thats why its actually very, very sophisticated. If we talk more about it its not dependent on one man, its not a oneman show because it is decentralized leadership. Cnn, cbs, bbc, but when it comes, he is not like that. He appears once on the screen and we havent seen him since. So its very huge Organization Behind him. So thats what the alqaeda from that it seems to me to be remarkable that when ever a leader or commander of Islamic State is eliminated, theres another commander to take place. There seems to be backup in the leadership the way there was not so much in alqaeda. Definitely. When i say muslim state is decentralized, you know, i mean, its not a oneman show. Theres a collective leadership. And this is the real leadership. He is not actually the man who the running the show. If we go back to the root of the Islamic State, you know, it is actually eminent of Saddam Hussein republican god army and security forces. Security organizations. It is it is a real state if you look at it. The structure of this, they have a cabinet, they have a police force, they have administrations, water, health, electricity. So i dont believe those socall ed they are not running this state. The hard core of this state very highly experienced people and so they managed to run it perfectly well until now. This is actually f you look at it, it is most stable, most secure than the other states around them. It is more secure and theres more law and order if you compare it with the Syrian Government or the syrian state or the iraqi state, yemen is in the middle east. Libya. Thats why those people actually running the show and they are perfectly well. We tend to forget that now. We tend to forget at the very beginning former officers in the iraqi army and former senior members were an important part of the Islamic State preliminary organization in iraq, are any of those people still around, are there still former iraqi officers . Yes. But before before we go into details, if you want to understand the Islamic State there are about six or seven keywords, the first one is human humiliation. Its extremely important. Frustration. More than 70 million unemployed people. So we have 60 of our population under the age of 27. So you have millions of young people without any future. So frustration is extremely important. And then underestimation, when i say underestimation t problem is the outside world. When i say underestimate, they never paid attention how it was growing and getting stronger and stronger and nobody paid attention. Underestimation is extremely important, the last and the other is good government. We dont have good government. Corrupt government. We dont have democracy, human rights. The lack of good governments is also extremely important. And then the other is foreign intervention. The problem we are facing in the middle east between now and then theres foreign intervention. We have seen in in iraq, we have seen in libya, we have seen it in yemen or another, we are seeing now in syria. The foreign intervention, military intervention in particular always creates, they have plan a but they dont have plan b. We know what happened in iraq. Iraq was a stable government whether we like it or not. But it was a state but now you have a country which is so usually when you intervene by military means you create a vacuum. Who is going to fill this vacuum over the radical Islamic Organization like alqaeda, like Islamic State, and all these countries. The last thing thats extremely important is the social media. Now the middle east is controlled by the social media with internet, the facebook. So this kind of there are actually playing to the hands of the terrorist organizations and also of the young frustrated people. So, you know, these keywords are extremely important to understand that how its going to emerge. I believe the biggest mistake was made on the middle east when the american invaded and occupied iraq. What happens, First American ruler of iraq. He bestowed and the problem is dump millions of those soldiers, those kernels on the street with nothing to do. Humiliation. The seed of the Islamic State now. The way the Islamic State has been sophisticated in choosing leaders for different parts, for different territories that the state rules and so Islamic State has appointed iraqis to be the governors of iraqi territories and syrians to be the governors of the syrian territories, but now as time goes by, fighters have locked to the organization through many parts of the world, you think there are attentions inside the organization within the sir apes and iraqis on one side and the fighters on the other. Actually the conflict is not there yet. Maybe theres sensibilities between different nationalities or getting together, working together in the Islamic State. But until now, you know, the hard core of the Islamic State is iraqi one. You know, you can see it and mainly, mainly from saudi arabia. They are not the decision maker. They can carry out certain orders, executions, for example. We have groups and each group has its own specialty. The largest, for example, the saudi, one, they are in charge of that side of the organization about five to six thousand of them, they are cueing to go and blow themselves up. This is the most dangerous one. Gentlemen jihadi that execute people. He was there in massachusetts there and he was graduated from university. So each part, each group has the definition which is different. Maybe in the coming future, we could have some split in this organization, but, you know, we have to remember that the legacy of alqaeda and osama ben laden made to keep alqaeda united. Yemen, egyptian, syrian, iraqi, saudi, despite that when you have a very strong from the top, i believe, you try to keep it united as long as you can and this is the case for the time being. You devout space to a remarkable treatis that appeared on line. Might possibly been written by an egyptian islamist. As i read your summary, the face seems to lie right there expelling nonmuslims from the area from a particular territory. So the period of savagery seems a little bit like what they used to call dictatorship in historical terms. How is it that everyday brut alty like we see in the Islamic State might prepare the ground for a harmoniuos society . Thats a very good question. Savagery is the manual of the Islamic State. Jihadi movement in 2003, they actually concentrated on the savagery chapter and what he wants to say, look, we have to create anarchy and when the region is passing through this, this is our time to take over, to control this savagery and use it to maximum, what he means by that, he means we should actually go and attack societies and when we create this anarchy, it is the best environment for us. And if you look at what is happening now at france, for example, its a very good example of the savagery to kill max muim of the dead. They use it for two reasons, first to terrorize their enemies to give fear among them. Always a state of fear and worries. Thats what happened because savage, brutal organization killing everybody in their way. So this actually ahead of them so the people run away. This is one thing. They use savagery as recruitment. Fighters all over the world. They want to say we are very strong and we are going to prevail and we actually those people who are against us who are nonbeliever and nonmuslim according to their definition. You can see. When they send eight men to paris, they were killing simply because they want to pass this message and they created the fear. If you are in europe now, you will see this fear everywhere in airports and train stations. Also the other point is to destroy the economy. If you know that they started when alone actually fighter opened fire and killed 40 people, 40 tourists, now they are trying to repeat the same. The french Government Income from tourism is more than 70 billion. They went to paris. The jewel, crown is tourism. They managed to down that russian airplane, against the most soughtafter resort. They know what they are doing. Its not coincidence. No. They actually organize their act very well and savagery is very important chapter of their ideology of their manual. It has become a hotly debated question, at least here in the United States to what extent the Islamic State epitamizes, is there anything important thats part of the ideology of this group . What would you think about that . Actually, you know, if you go to that literature of the Islamic State, you will find it is a revival of scholar who actually started in 18th century, beginning of 18th century as he called the puritan islam. The government try today dump this and the clear image because it came a burden on the shoulder of the saudi royal family. Islam state decided actually they are repeating the same steps and legacy. For example, when together they send their troops and they committed massacres there. There are imitating the same group and thats why there are they have very attractive in saudi arabia. 92 in saudi arabia are sympathetic of the Islamic State, you know, ideology. They are very attractive. Asked scholars to answer those people because its not a security solution, but has to be , ideoligal, none of the scholars responded to his call. They know that, this kind of doctrine is deeply rooted and the saudi. So ideology of the Islamic State. Your book makes a very strong case for that. As i was reading your book, it seemed to me that there also seem to be influences of deliberation party that begins in palestine. Do you see any evidence of that kind of thinking as well . Yes, definitely. It was established in palestine during the british mandate of palestine. It is there. It was not actually ideology is a peaceful one. They dont actually adopt military actions, they never, all the rhetoric. When it comes to the Islamic State, no, they have some part of the ideologies there, some teaching there, but the hard core of the Islamic State ideology actually adopt violence, terrorism, terrorize the enemy. Thats what they did when they actually they massacred thousands and thousands of people there. Ideology is they are crazy, islam the hard core of the ideology. The most important thing and thats why they are very brutal, very violent, very actually terrorizing people in a way or another and so i believe is the doctrine. And your book certainly does show the close connections between saudi arabia and between Islamic State and other of the militant islamic movement. You say part comes from the rulers of saudi arabia considered themselves to be the leaders of all muslims. I must say i was surprised by that. What grounds to do you have for saying that the leaders of saudi arabia think of leaders of muslims . Look at them. Thats absolutely clear. Located in saudi arabia, the leader of saudi arabia consider himself or start to call himself the custodian of shrines. The people, the muslim people will take it seriously or not, this is a completely different question. What they consider themselves is something and what the people call them is completely. I believe that saudi royal family is less, and less popular than they used to be. They always aligned themselves with the west. They take the american side. They help the american of when q and they are sending sophisticated war planes so i believe their image as not as pure as they want it to be. Their image is very shaky because of intervention with yemen and intervention supporting brotherhoods and animosity with bigger states in the middle states, like egypt, for example, syria, like iraq and because also of the division which is now taking place and the muslim between sunni. Now, they are representing one side of islam which is the sunni islam. They cannot say they are the leader of the muslim. It was my impression that saudi arabia was opposed to the muslim brothers and was a rival of them in egypt and in syria, do you not see it that way . It used to be that way. But now if you look at it, when i say a sunni triangle, turkey, saudi arabia and qatar. This actually as huge force against the shia and actually adopting now because the president of turkey is presenting himself as as present caliphate. They are united now in one alliance and this actually supporting Muslim Brotherhood and this creates and other governments that consider Muslim Brotherhoods force of actually instability on the region itself. True for the Syrian Muslim brothers as well. Yes, exactly. Saudi arabia when they were they were suppressed, but after that the relation because Muslim Brotherhoods decided to establish themselves strongly in the saudi society. They pose a threat to the royal family. So thats why saudi and the later stages they were scared of them because they are very well organized. They have some sort of international leadership. It was frightening so they decided to dump them, to fight them. They are adapting them in iraq and syria. I have one more question but i know the audience is interesting in posing questions as well. Perhaps they can think about the question and prepare to come to the microphone as i ask you one more thing z i think one might argue that the movement is trying to protect the Muslim Community from attack and to protect the muslim from interference and intervention like the western armed forces. What would you say about that tension . You know, when we look at the ideology, doctrine, different from alqaeda, alqaeda wanted to take revenge from the american and crusader as they put it. When it comes to Islamic State,y, they want to take revenge but major is to expand. Thats what happens. They actually manage by the way, symbolic, has the historian meaning for them. Why . Because used to be temporary or summer resort of, you know, caliphate, one of the upperside wellknown. They didnt chose to be capital. But because they consider also external should be medina. Its extremely important to them how they look at history and read it very well and try to apply it. So first, you know, to conquer lands, consolidate and expand on the surrounding, so i believe now so this change of ideology or strategy is extremely important. Is they were against alqaeda taking revenge. Look, we want to be we want to concentrate on the region, establishing the state and after that, you know, when we establish the state we will look at other things, but seems now the way its contained and part of syria, part of iraq maybe they decide it is the time also to use terrorism and it seems, it seems, it is a huge turning strategic turn in their legacy. Do you think its broadly been contained . Now, there are not expanding, at least, but we have to remember that its only two years. They were conquered actually the Kurdish Police in northern iraq. We have to remember also biggest iraqi refineries so, they start to lose some of their territories. Maybe this could explain why they decided to actually send the fighters to the west to paris in particular. Very thoughtful, i agree with you. So there will be questions from the audience and ive been asked to repeat the questions for purposes of skype just to be sure. So please. Thank you very much. Can you hear that question . No. Ill try to repeat it. I want to ask him to focus on saudi arabia and the United States. Saudi arabia for the last 60, 5 years or so has been very close ally of the United States, primarily based on our need for