I think it to a very large degree. Certainly the political aim and the notion of a country country, ive lived in washington and have been their most of my adult life and most people have a sense it has gotten toxic. But one of the reasons somebody clever increasingly living in to the icehouse that reflect their own economic or racial or cultural entity. End it makes it more difficult to find the of pragmatic middle. Frankly most americans on cable tv ortolan twitter they want to solve problems. They tend not to be the ones you find in the conversation. But the polarization has influenced our politics that is self reinforcing because the public is set up for approval ratings. That is the courage lowes negative bet the fact Debt Economic divide is growing but we are an enormous head rhode jihadist society but what makes us work this validity and ability to start at the bottom and go to the top. That is the greatness of america and the rules of the game. But the ability to start at the bottom and rise to the top is smaller today canada and most of the countries of europe. And what it goes with the society. On the upside it seems immigration has then our ace in the whole. Immigrants believe in the future immigrants stay for the future this country was built by immigrants that most of us have immigrants in our family tree. It is the case however every ways produces a backlash but if you go back to see what people said about the irish or the german war dead jews they did not say very nice things. And certainly there is a backlash. Complicated by the fact this is different that is a big policy challenge they are replenishing the work force some of the challenges that may have is solved by immigration and will continue to be the fact it makes our tapestry richer and more multicultural but it is filled with people of lots of different colors and ideology and raises. Host stake you for joining us. Guest pleasure to be here. [applause] they q for the introduction by and delighted to be here to play the role of questioner of the new book slaverys exiles and at the end we will have time for questions from the audience. It you can purchase the book outside. But sylviane wanted to start by reading a passage of the book . Guest at the end. Host okay. Then we will start. Since the term nora rudin is not widely known what is a round . The term comes from the spanish word. For those that wandered off the farm by extension it was used for runaway slaves. But its in spanish but then in french did english turns into ruin. Maroon then a term for any type of roadway. But it is reserved for the terror from jamaica and in the United States it is called the run away or the allied air. Host we think of people coming to the north or canada. You talk about communities in the south. Yes. Those that remain in the south. From the woods than the swamps. Host how did you get interested in this subject . Not many people have written about did in the United States. Guest i did not really start wanting to read a book write a book by read a book i know about them into making a hint cuba and suriname but i could not find anything. With a chapter here in their with a particular community but nothing detailed so i thought maybe there was nothing so as i started to look so i decided to write the book. Host there is vast literature of of slavery so why does this particular aspect neglected . The but the phenomenon of history white you think it has been neglected . The right and doing research maroon and i would say no virginia or carolina for louisiana and people were surprised. There were maroon their . Because when we look we think of florida because those were large communities so people think of maroon like to make an end of the idea of those large committees are the exception. Those communities were small sauternes over several months or years or one generation. So with those communities with those individuals and groups in communities in the wilderness and with that criteria a whole world that remains under their radar. Know where your the majority and then excluded a number of people. Actually the maroons of florida they were leaving in secret. Because they were not leading in the wilderness and not in secret either. Host right. You mention the brazilian example. But that is a gigantic settlement. Given they were secret as a criterium house deal find information about them . Maroons did not leave diaries and letters or publish newspapers. How did you find your sources . Guest that was a surprise because i was thinking where to run look for information with the 1600s because very early the ax mentioned maroons they dont use the term but we can see you wed where they were or what they were doing or what the maroons were wearing. Then you have treaties as well. And i also used newspapers of what they were doing or their activities. Or the runaway slaves id you can follow people including african maroons were seven of them to follow them sometimes back to the plantation where they were captured bin to the woods where they would run away again with shackles of their legs for coal. Then for example, there were trials of maroons and of the people who held them. But what i did not think of and the beginning was runaways. Although there was the sister that was eight maroons living in the woods for years it had three children there. But 2300 but the personal things the intimate things that the relationship so by a combining them. Host but did jamaica the government were authorities was there anything like that in the United States. No. No treaties of that sort but committees going there was never that situation like in jamaica. Host what type of places did these maroons communities establish themselves . Place is very far from the of plantation . What Geographic Area . I realized very early to explore and evidence king riots reflect then when i look at what is going on with a grand the ground the maroons landscape. To go have the same deals ideals. But maroons means a very large area. Sometimes it means the border of the petition but the people live with the interplant sometimes not very far but difficult to except. With the maroons landscape to go into the plantation so we have a very large opposed that the maroons used the entire southern landscape moving from one state to another. Host what role did family relations play . To live in the words are other areas . Back to see their families. That is what was very fascinating. When people run away to the north. They severed relations spending the rest of their lives they wonder if they died. One of the reasons maroons became maroons they wanted to live with their fridleys. To be free to live with their families. To be at the border but as you know, with the domestic slave trade was more problematic with people sold from virginia to alabama. What people did a strategy to keep their families together. But to run away to the woods to escape the plantation but then there was the third strategy. Man would walk back to North Carolina or maryland. At the end of the road there would stay in the woods that was the only place to be with their families near the plantation. To keep the families together. Host that is interesting and your book shows the way you describe it we should not think of a sharp or rigid distinction between maroons living away from the plantation or slaves on farms. They seem to intersect and communicates slaves living within slippery. And that continued relation with the plantation just to give you an example for the months of young woman celeste with livein the woods. She would come back that is very common. Not only to see the family but for love and comfort to and also to get food and information. And the role of the community was crucial no need to see their various they were told that there p. I. G. S. And cattle were slaughtered. So that maroons fell as part of the large landscape. It was a very crucial and closed relationship. Host fugitive slaves who escaped to the north some of them became very famous abolitionist abolitionist, speakers, of Frederick Douglass the most prominent with a few others. Candy and the abolitionists devoted a lot of attention. To the abolitionist talk about the maroons about the evils of slavery or tend to ignore them . Bet is interesting. When they mention maroons to portray them but the idea behind it is to show the evil of slavery. But at the same time black people being fooled is not what it was about. Abolitionist have the need. So with this very rarely. Host but with our image of the old self is that is falafel of slave patrols people booking for fugitives of the plantation without permission. How do these little groups of communities manage to escape being captured . That is exciting to see. Also many were captured but those that manage to retain remain. They live in those woods after emancipation. After spending 20 years in the words. And would go to the plantation several times a week. One man lives a few miles from his wife and two children. And lived there five years intel emancipation. During that time his wife and two children so they were always badgering where is the husband . So they would say i dont know and tell since the day he ran away be he would come three days a week over five years. [laughter] it is extraordinary. But that community and people do new either generally manner or either precisely where the maroons lived. But one of the way people have that foundation because when you live on that border it is a risky situation. You asked to complete the disappear in go into the environment. Others that to the was absolutely mindboggling. Said they would dig cathouses underground. There we would call them caves. Some were bigger when you see think what they needed to do these ian think of the fact that it was so important to get the children out of the system. And some never got out. Renew our parents and you think of that is heart wrenching that what they do for the children to be free is to live underground. At the same time the newspapers in the south we led the information. Even the abolitionist did not mention it. The maroons who lived underground or absence of the american consciousness. Host so we make of seen references to People Living in the caves but they were not normal caves they were underground to the word dog and it could be fairly extensive. How do you think the word maroons fits into the larger story of slavery . Is a major part or a small side issue . Is a part of a spectrum ranging from people on plantations to slaver billions . How low do you fit that into the story of what we know is continual resistance by africanamericans to slavery . It is a major part in terms of sheer number and we dont know what the numbers are by no way. But there were thousands of maroons individuals, groups individuals, groups, large communities, actually all over the south. The sheer number what to be is unique the word in the ways. But they also added a special kind of freedom. They created a nationality to life. When somebody would run away to the south or to the north from canada but they all leave the control is reduce created again with things they could do war were not allowed. They created that eternity to the south and to the north. But this idea of voluntary separation something dead is deep in the Africanamerican Community in different forms cultural, political, social, economic, or the black Power Movement so this voluntary separation we see that maroons as the precursor of ideas that run deep into the african experience. Host a lot of the information and in the book is from the colonial era. As the south gets more populated the population grows the would begins to take over by farms. Does the opportunity for that maroons did shrink as there is less area to survive away from white control . Actually did do munition deviation bet with those large communities from the 17 eighties but then you see other committees even in the 1860s with the agricultural settlements with corn a and rising and cows and p. I. G. S. So those groups continued to exist and continued to be individuals and families to the end. We can see them from 1865. Also to the south going out of the words you also see the maroons in rolling in the are of a. Host sub maroons if i of not mistaken stayed did woods and caves for a while then headed to the north in canada . Yes. For one reason or another could not go want to be maroons but then go to the north. Some examples of that what people wanted to go to the north to leave that maroons for maybe one year then find the opportunity. Host one of the area is you mentioned does not sound very hospitable the Great Dismal Swamp of virginia that they had a community it seems it is off the beaten path. There is the reason there were sold in a maroons. We dont have the numbers but in the 19th century between two and 3,000 were there. That could be greatly exaggerated but it was big. The people of good run away their. And secretly visit the small small. And others a very interesting part as well being maroons but working for the slave people. They would work on the canal in the swap. And maroons would help them. But also would is very interesting one of the things that many of them did was to trade. With the black mosfet they gather and they traded thats. One of the things that they treated traded for was guns and in munition. Ammunition. Host we will open the floor for questions but i want to allow sylviane to do a reading from the the book. Guest one of the things that needs to be mentioned maroons was not for everyone. It was difficult. People had to be very secret in order to survive in the wild and actually when it you read the interviews you see people to say they live well and eight better than we did. But there were a lot of difficulties maroons celebrated success and had disaster but in the pursuit of freedom they created new forms of life and measured themselves against a challenging and very rare. They put their lives on the of line every day. One of stories and courage and freedom one. The oppressor who could not understand the maroons and who suffered hard times. [applause] host we have time for a few questions. Please go to the microphone. My question is digest wonder about the geographical dangers to say that the children never came out from the caves . What did you mean . For example, people who would live in the cave maroons leave at night during the day they remade hidden. But for example, one man and his wife and the 15 children with complete the and the cave. They never leave. So with that interview people remembered when children got out of the cave some were have said to be almost blind. There were very shy. They did not want to be around people. So people with spent their life as a child in the cave and. Thank you for sharing part of our history that i did not know about it. I knew about it in the caribbean but not the United States and it makes me feel proud to know that we fought and struggled and survived. Think you. [applause] picking up from there, a teacher and my students are very excited to hear every talk about how excited i am. But i do have a question the relationship between the maroons and the United States with those in the caribbean. Talking about captain that his name was brought up . Was their communication . By talk about this community i have a chapter in georgia and south carolina. An interesting community because it is a committee it is why it is unique in the United States. One of the leaders we dont know where that comes from. Those african names but there was a possibility that people from the caribbean those and actually livein the caribbean for those that have arrived to talk about. Spinet what your search revealed about the community the educational system. No. Remember slaves it was against the of lot to teach slaves to read and write although they would require that any way better education was not readily available. You kept mentioning going to the cities i have a hard time imagining what they were doing what sort of agency or latitude they had. The of their question is in the areas where there were higher concentrations and how many maroons were reduce say there were in the south . The first was about the citys. Guess. That example of maroons you just were at the city. Those that would say with the Security Forces there. In new orleans going into this city at night. And then they would retreat into the words. The woods. There could be thousands at some point. But that is not something that is possible. Where geographically might have been the most . There were maroons all over. Here in new york, brooklyn, harlem, every state reno in louisiana