Visit the booktv. Org to watch any other programs you see here online. Type the author or book not in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search big you can also share anything you see on booktv. Org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. Booktv streams live on line 48 hours every weekend with the top nonfiction books and authors. Booktv. Org. Historian mark perry recounts the military career of general Douglas Macarthur. He reports that macarthur, appointed commander of u. S. Army forces in the far east by president Franklin Roosevelt, was equally reviled and respected. This is about 50 minutes. Thank you, doug. And to offer been there. Thanks to the National Archives for inviting me in holding this event. Im going to talk about Douglas Macarthur who served twice as army chief of staff, received the japanese surrender in tokyo bay, was one of the most decorated soldiers of world war i, he won the medal of honor, was called a brilliant by Winston Churchill and is arguably the most disliked and even reviled figure in American Military history. Theres the rub. Theres the challenge for a biographer. How do you square the circle . How do you understand a man who was at one moment so disliked, and believe me, in talks ive given on macarthur, ive been attacked on his record, how do you square the idea that this bombastic and egotistical, prejudiced, narrowminded man was also, i think, one of the most brilliant military leaders in our history . How do you do it . It comes down to two words to explain it. Harry truman. The president of the United States who relieved him, dismissed him, fired him, however you want to put it, the brought them back to the United States. He was a great hero, standing ovation in the u. S. Congress, and then as macarthur himself put it, faded away like every old soldier. In a recent, very unofficial opinion poll, macarthur was listed as our worst military leader, ahead of, get this, benedict arnold, the trader. So when i begi began this book d to try to figure out how to present these contradictions in a very complex character. And i decided to do it by doing what historians dont normally do. Instead of casting the main shadow forward as to how we understand him now, i cast his shadow back. And if you cast macarthurs shadow back, if you see them as he most recently was going as a humiliated commander relieved by the president , then you begin to look for all of the complaints about macarthur that truman found in his previous history. And even look at any historical figure long enough, and if you look for the bad things in his character and his career, you will find them. What if, i asked myself in writing this book, what if were to looking at macarthur without the shadow of korea . What it would look at macarthur as having ended his career on board the uss missouri taking the japanese surrender . What if korea had not happened . How would we view him . And in shaping his outlook on macarthur, i compared them with another president , not harry truman, and contrasted them with another president , not harry truman but Franklin Roosevelt. Roosevelt and macarthur were old political enemies. Roosevelt loved the navy. Macarthur hated the navy. Roosevelt was a progressive politician. Macarthur was most comfortable in the hoover administration. Roosevelt shaped the policy approach governing america that took into account those who have the least and needed the most help. Macarthur believed everyone could lift themselves up by their bootstraps. There were no two different men in American History that serve at the same time, and yet oddly and strangely, while they were political enemies they became weary, but good friends. Roosevelt decided when he became president despite macarthurs reputation, to keep macarthur on as army chief of staff. In my previous talks, a man stopped me and said, you know, i dont like macarthur but i really like your title. So i thought that i would explain then where i got the title the most dangerous man in america as a way to explain the rooseveltmacarthur relationship. Remember the 19th or two in the midst of a terrible depression, a group of world war i veterans organized this is national and came to washington to lobby for the early payment of the world war i bonus. This was the bonus army. They camped out and they lobbied the congress very peaceful. They set up a camp, brought their families. These were the families that were the poorest of the poor. We have to remember the Great Depression, unemployment was at 23 . Macarthur, hoover was president. Hoover was the army chief of staff and ever several months of this campout, hoover decided that the best thing to do would be to disperse as quietly but as effectively as possible the bonus army. There have been some incidents with the bonus army and the washington police, so the sector of war call the macarthur and said why dont you get some troops together and escort this bonus army out of town . It was a catastrophe. Macarthur returned to his quarters, put on a full dress uniform, went with his aide, Dwight Eisenhower, had clashes with the bonus army and dispersed them violently. One child died in the melee, was a succeeded and macarthur was roundly criticized for his actions, or as Dwight Eisenhower and said, i told the son of a not to go down there. And when roosevelt was nominated as president returned to new york, headlines at the end of july blared the news of what macarthur had done. Now, roosevelt as nominee of the Democratic Party have put together a group of people at the time recalled the brains trust, but they became the brain trust. One of the leading people of this was an economist by the name of doug well. If you want to study a great unknown american, read about the life of well, the columbia economist when roosevelt was still running for the presidency he went to a close associate and said we are 23 unemployment, no one knows what to do, i need to talk to somebody who will tell me why we in the Great Depression. He said, ive got just the answer in his name is tugwell. Introduced him, an economist at columbia. A day after the bonus march, roosevelt was sitting with tugwell in the Governors Mansion in albany. Roosevelt would like to tugwell, just as a footnote. Roosevelt said can become were in the Great Depression. He said sure. Im not even sure now whether we are in the Great Depression, but tugwell new and roosevelt said whats the reason . He said, the farmers are growing the wheat our standing in the bread line. Rosso thought from it and said thats too. Why is that . Tugwell said were overproducing. The price of wheat is too low. Thats why we are in the Great Depression but roosevelt said thats great. What do we do . Tugwell said, price supports. Which is where we get price supports. And roosevelt tugwell is a genius. Roosevelt brought them into the administration. On the day after th the bonus mh it was sitting in the Governors Mansion in albany with tugwell when the phone rang, governor roosevelt, huey long is on the line and wants to talk. The louisiana demagogue who have helped roosevelt get nominated. Roosevelt rolled his eyes and said, all right, ill take the colbert you look at tugwell and said stay here. Depicted the phone and he said yes . How are you doing . And huey long said what you mean what am i doing . What the hell you doing . Youre the nominee of the Democratic Party, sitting up there in new york with all the fat cats. You should be out campaigning. Roosevelt said no, no. , everything will be okay. Not time to stand up for his campaign get a weapon of time to do this. We wanted money. Money . Ousley how to raise money. If you do down here in louisiana is the thing around with the fat cats things would be okay. Roosevelt mediated, the conversation went on for a while. Finally, roosevelt hung up. Tugwell looked at him and said, huey long, the most dangerous man in america. And roosevelt said no, huey long isnt the most dangerous man in america. The most dangerous man in america is Douglas Macarthur. And tugwell thought about this, a couple days later, came back to Roosevelt Roosevelt and said did i hear you right . Did you see Douglas Macarthur is the most dangerous man in america . Roosevelt said thats right. Tugwell said, why do you think that . He said listen, were in the middle of the Great Depression. Weve got bread lines, people are new to writing, the label labor troubles in ohio. No one knows how to get out of it. In times of depression comes trouble. The American People always look for the man on the white horse. Maybe cant bring us economic growth, but he can bring us a little stability. And Douglas Macarthur is that man. And tugwell said, what are we going to do . He said were going to tame those men and were going to make them useful to us. And this book, a little cheeky, is about how roosevelt aimed macarthur in his administration by keeping them on not only as army chief of staff but by giving them responsibilities for running his primary domestic political programs, including the conversation core, and then how in world war ii macarthur used roosevelt to meet his personal goal, which was to return to the philippines Unemployment Rate the philippines where his family had a long history, and which was in effect macarthurs second home. So the most dangerous man in america, i see cheeky, the most dangerous man in america explains Douglas Macarthur, and it doesnt because he wasnt the most dangerous man in america, but he was, as i claim, our greatest strategist. I will have one thing q a is always far more better than hearing me talk to we will get to your questions. I make the claim that macarthur was a brilliant strategist on the basis of his conduct in world war ii, which was amazing. We have to remember where america was within the japanese attacked us on december 7 to we were the 19th Largest Military in the world, just ahead of portugal. The year before the outbreak of world war ii the u. S. Congress had approved beginning the draft by one vote. When macarthur was assigned to the philippines to help build their army, his request for rifles to arm that army was denied. Because members of congress and the interior department believed that army the filipinos would simply provoked the japanese. Who would remain peaceful if we didnt poke them. Thats where we were here and macarthur was surprised. America was surprised on december 7 and we were not prepared for war. If you studied closely the history of world war ii you had to come to the conclusion as i have, it took the United States one year to 18 months to really get inside the battle tempo of our enemies between the germans and the japanese. It took macarthur a full year to get back in the beginning the Third Largest island in the world and he did with to National Guard units. The 32nd division and the 40th National Guard division at a texas. The only two he had for the first year of the war because there wasnt anybody else. He had 57 bombers in the philippines at clark field and the japanese had thousands. For the first year of world war ii, the United States was flat on its back fighting with the british in europe, except we were fighting, fighting a vote against the japanese in world war ii. And yet inside of three years, macarthur conquered the guinea, the admiralty islands, placed above all the japanese fortress under cities, returned to the philippines, landed at luzon and finally accepted a surrender in 1945. Controversial, bombastic, narrowminded. I still claim, with the possible exception of ulysses s. Grant, Douglas Macarthur is our greatest soldier. And this is a book about his legacy. Im happy to accept your questions and try to answer them. [applause] the claim has been made that it was not necessary to invade the philippines to get back to japan and macarthur, the claim has been made that was just to satisfy macarthurs ego. Could you address that . Assuming im right. Youre right, partly. It was also to get Franklin Roosevelt reelected in 1944. But, but, but the navy had always argued that the correct way to defeat the japanese was through a naval the offensive through the Central Pacific and not the South Pacific which was macarthurs area of responsibility. And that the pacific was the navys war and that macarthurs campaigns were an afterthought. And that the way to japan was through not the philippines which would be a bloody campaign, but where the Army Air Corps couldnt mount bombers on japan. In 1944, this debate was underway and roosevelt had a meeting with his admiral, which avenue the United States would go in. And Admiral Halsey who was not at the conference, one month later reported that it was wide open. That decent fighters over to be blocked quickly and more quickly than the navy could go. This is what made the difference. If you studied nemitz, halsey and navy admirals, youll find that in 1944 that actually agreed with the macarthurs proposal that we attacked through the philippines. Much to the chagrin and outright anger of the then chief of Naval Operations who hated macarthur. And didnt want to go and who ranked americas enemies germany and the u. S. Army. And so i think roosevelt during his 1944 campaign would always find macarthurs fight in the philippines. Macarthur was a known republic. Whitehaven criticizing and not letting was macarthur . There he is, a good republican fighting the fight in the philippines. He slaughtered thomas dewey in the election. Macarthur allowed that to happen, allowed him to be used. This is a political book about u. S. Military. This is about the lyrical battles of macarthur and roosevelt. Its not the most important thing that happened in world war ii. Organizing and shaping the american response and identifying the commanders and getting used industry going is really the story of world war ii. Thats the real story of world war ii and thats what i think. Its a good question, thank you. You mentioned he didnt get along with king but most of that i think about macarthur i think of them as being a very effective use of naval forces, especially comes to inchon. Given that he was so effective with the navy, was there anything other than team that made him at odds with the navy . He seems to have braced the use of the navy whenever he could. He did, youre right but it took him a while. When he was army chief of staff in the 1930s he always had to contend with the navy over the budget. And the navys plan for that was a very contentious fight because there wasnt much of a pie to be cut up. So the navy and the army spent a lot of time just kind of sitting spitting at each other over the budget. And in world war ii the navy basically said, the whole point of the Pacific Campaign is that the navy is going to win the pacific to the army gets europe and were going to send our carriers into the Central Pacific and user u. S. Marine corps. This was real animus, and macarthur carried us into world war ii and they suggested a move is warships from the things from the philippines. So macarthur had this animus. And then king appointed kincaid to lead macarthurs navy, 1943 i believe. And kincaid was a very effective officer with macarthur. One of the incidents i recount in the book, he brings them onto his command ship during a battle and have looks at in as the ship opened fire on a japanese held island and he said, from that moment on, macarthur was more royal than the king. He shook his head. He couldnt believe the firepower that the navy brought to the pacific. And he became an advocate for the navy and by the end of the work he became an advocate for the end of interservice rivalry and interservice budget fights and said that the navy, Army Competition is an obstacle to a quick victory. So macarthur at least recognize the problems between the service rivalries. Im wondering if in your research you have read now future, now exsenator webbs historical novel the interested general . More about japan, but aint it it had the premise that macarthur chose to impress one woman he loved when he first come with either west point and was there, you know, theres a scene where he meets her and says i brought this all two years to doorstep, or something. Was that troop . No. But theres no historical evidence your it makes a good novel. Its not good history. I agree with that, okay. Palsy who advocated the invasion of lazy im sorry, macarthur did have mistresses prior to his marriage who were an investment to them, including a Young Filipina woman he kept in town and gave when his army chief of staff, and the reporters, a reporter found out about her and was about to publish the facts of this liaison. And macarthur sent eisenhower to find her and secretive her away. And macarthur kind of a blocked on his personal, gave her 35,000, hush money for her to be quiet about the affair. He wasnt married yet. The admiral said he should just let it come. Everyone is having an affair in washington. But macarthur, they speculated what his mother, what macarthurs mother, pinky, thought about it. Thats why so macarthur is not without his personal blemishes but theres a suggestion that he launched the philippine invitation to impress a woman. Or that he chose that area. Yeah, or that he chose that area. It was the original thinking, his original thinking was he would go right into luzon. The joint chiefs of staff said you go into the southernmost island. It was chosen because you could launch bombers therefore the note campaign and as i said it was really the navys idea. You mentioned that the u. S. Was surprised by war with japan, but if you go to the Pearl Harbor Museum exhibit and to go into the japanese and other your site and then they present the japanese side, the japanese were competing for resources and what they believed to be there spirit of us. The u. S. Was the leading implement other. Diplomatic relations were breaking down. Japanese were making war against different regional areas including china where the u. S. Chose not to actively intervene. It appeared everything was heading towards war. Why would it be said the u. S. Wasnt surprised eventually by war with Japan Steel Works not everyone was surprised. Franklin roosevelt, todays before the pearl harbor, he said the japanese are going to a tactic probably on monday which would be december 8. He thought that the japanese would strike south, take over the philippines, indonesia, singapore. But pearl harbor was a real shock. That they could project their forces that far, that early. Was a surprise. When macarthur heard about it he was in the philippines it was december 8 in the philippines when its december 7, 1941, pearl harbor. He said they have attacked pearl harbor, thats our strongest point. So i correct myself. Not everyone was surprised, but that the japanese to take pearl harbor was a surprise to the second thing about the japanese surprise was that they had a kind of military capabilities that they did. You study the combat logs or what happened in the philippines and pearl harbor, those days, the thing that strikes you as a shock american militant commanders at how fast the pace of the war was. World war i was a hard, entrenched, slogging, brutal, bloody conflict. World war ii wasnt. Fast and uprise maneuver. That shocked, thats what shocked the United States. And it took, ive met in the book and i say in the book, able to macarthur si six or seven months into to american commanders six or seven months to kind of get inside the temple of the war. I would add that this. One officer approached macarthur, and this was by no means unusual, after december 8 and he said, you know, those fighter planes arent flown by japanese. Theyre flown by the germans. Why would you say that . Everyone knows asians cant operate complex machinery. We just, just werent ready. And we got our butts kicked for a year because we werent ready and we had to get up to speed. That was the surprise. With a surprise they attacked us or was it just that they projected their forces so effectively that far to why . I think it was the latter and not the former. I would add there is a thing in American History i call the progress of outfield. I think im probably to the left of anyone in this room politically, but what i call the progressive fallacy, and ive been thinking about a lot, especially reactions to my book. One gentleman said to me the other day, he said you know, macarthur bears the ultimate responsibility for all those deaths at clark field on december 8 when he was surprised. No. The ultimate responsibility for the death of the americans on december 8 is with which the japanese. They killed the americans, not macarthur. 9 11, we didnt, after 9 11, its not a surprise considering our actions. I just, i reject it. We put an embargo on japan in the 1930s because they invaded china. They killed 1 million chinese in a year. They expanded their in part because as you point out quite rightly, they thought they needed a surplus goods and this was their sphere of influence. Well, it wasnt. And we made him a good offer. Most favored nation status. We would guarantee the Oil Shipments but they had to get out of china. Their response was pearl harbor. And it was, it was a terrible mistake on their part. People ask me what was the turning point of world war ii, and i say stalingrad in europe. The russian, the Red Army Victory in europe. The turning point in the pacific was pearl harbor. Because of all of the dumb decisions in human history, that has to rank in the top 10. The japanese couldnt possibly win that war. And their best hope was that we would somehow say, we would rather not fight it. Go ahead, you can have asia and we will do with the germans but anyone knows anything about the United States knows that wasnt going to happen. The cost to japan was, not just an empire, but millions of men, women and children. A terrible mistake. Can you tell us when macarthur became aware of the power and potential influence to the atom bomb . And then how that influenced his strategies for the conclusion of the land and army portion of world war ii . He was placed in charge of, after a contentious debate in washington, he was put in charge of the planning for the invasion of japan and name as commander of the allied Ground Forces in that campaign, operation downfall which had two parts. The invasion of the southernmost island of japan, and the invasion of the flat plane around tokyo and the capture of the japanese capital. And in the midst of this planning, i came across a document that said that macarthur had told his chief planners to continue their Detailed Planning for a very complex invasion, which wouldve been bigger than normandy. To continue the planning, but do not do it too quickly. Because he had been told a day prior, two days prior to the dropping o of the atomic bomb on hiroshima, he had been briefed by person that came to washington that Nuclear Device and atom bomb would be dropped on hiroshima. And that was the reason for him telling his chief of staff, go ahead with your planning, a japan is going to surrender. He thought that the atom bomb was the reason they surrendered. I think later historians have quite rightly pointed out that what really scared japan was that their homeland, that it would be better to surrender to the americans than to the russians. They didnt want the red army occupying their homeland, and that they better seek peace as quickly as possible before the russians got engaged. And i think that history, historys judgment is accurate. Spent a still a little vague on when he learned about it the day before. A commander did not know thae thumb of the project and no. Ive come across no evidence that he knew about it at all. You know, it is, when i think about this now and the result of your question is rather surprising that he was surprised by. Maybe a 10th of it through the army grapevine, but it seems unlikely to me, it was a pretty wellkept secret. Although the idea that there might be an atomic bomb, it was not generally come was generally known. After the bomb was dropped, he and patton had very similar reaction. You remember from george c. Scotts depiction of patent. In fact, george c. Scott is patent. If you havent seen patton you can tune into the bromwich outside thereof shall be on the iway until the end of the godfather part three. Patents reaction to the atomic bomb was well, thats it for us good soldiers. No more glory for us. Macarthur said something very similar. He said, the hero of the next war is going to be a lieutenant who pushes a button. The days of guys like me are over. He told that to a reporter at the time. Turns out that neither patton nor macarthur were right about that, sadly. Good, but that was his beef. What was his reaction to treatment desegregating the army . Can you talk about his civil rights record . He didnt have one. I have never, i have never you know, ive asked myself the question many times. You know, i dont come he didnt have a civil rights record. Ive not found anything that macarthur said or did any personal prejudice based on race, ethnicity, or nationality. He was uncomfortable during world war ii, even though he adopted at the time calling japanese jobs. He cringed when japs. It wasnt the way he thought about the world. He spent time in japan. He spent time in asia. He made no comment at all on the desegregation of the u. S. Army, which occurred in time for korea. I find it unimaginable that he would believe that some national or ethnic groups are not as good fighters as any other. He knew that not to be true. Yet seen enough of wars to know that that was nonsense. His prejudice was against the navy. He hated the navy. He grew to accept the navy and to embrace the navy, but this was a military man who was consumed by military topics almost solely. People who say, he was a real threat for the presidency, and roosevelt feared that macarthur would run for the presidency. That may be. Certainly roosevelt made an effort to make sure that if macarthur ever ran for the presidency, he would be embarrassed. In preparation for perspective 1944 campaign. Roosevelt had his aides gather a car for statement a passive possible japanese attack for use against him in a macarthur campaign. Which would embarrass macarthur but i found instead he macarthurs character, an extensive and detailed, amazing thing about macarthur is he spent no time that i can discern, on subjects about what a president might should be considering about, the budget, taxes, how to run a government. He didnt care and he didnt know. So i tend to lessen, i tend to play down his political skills, which were minimal, and to play up to his military skills. But to answer your question is directed as i can, i have come across no personal prejudice in any of his papers. Nor did he oppose the desegregation of the army. Could you comment on the role of carlos in helping mccarville Pashtun Macarthur we take the philippines . Macarthur led the philippines, and come but we should understand his point of view. His father had served as commander in the philippines and he served there as a commander and he was a man who would claim that better than any american he understood philippine society. Which may be true but the bar is awfully low. He knew the upper crust of the philippine society. Carlos romulo who was really a phenomenal wordsmith and thinker, political thinker who was with macarthur and would go through macarthurs speech is answered remember this and reread this. And was a defender of macarthur. Macarthur accepted a lot of money from the president of the philippine of the commonwealth of time, and has been criticized ever since for accepting the money as a personal gift. And it was Carlos Romulo who said no, no, no. This is philippine politics, not my area of expertise, but he said, if you accepted a gift from us them basically Carlos Romulo said, we all you. And when you say youre going to return, we will believe you because theres the check right there. I think it was a little bit more than that. Macarthur loved the philippines, and when the war ended, he basically defended the philippine political leaders who had worked with the japanese. And was highly criticized for that and macarthur said, listen, somebodys got to run this country. And if we were to prosecute every filipino who cooperated with the japanese we would be prosecuting all of them so we will let some of this go. The same did not happen on china. The occupation of the philippines were very rest rough for the filipinos. The president of the filipinos, the philippines was invaded, argued with roosevelt that the philippines should just declare their neutrality from being overrun. In other words, turned her back on the United States. Macarthur would have nothing to do with it, neither would Carlos Romulo. So thats my nonexpert answer. How well did the macarthur know any philippine language . And the premise of emperors general that the japanese engaged and, a Brilliant Campaign to persuade macarthur to keep the emperor, how much is the premise of what come in webbs novel realistic . The japanese did raise a campaign to keep the emperor. One of the stipulations in a controversial stipulation in their agreement to surrender, which was roosevelts formulation for the surrender of germany and japan was unconditional surrender. And the japanese put a condition on their surrender, which was, became controversial in washington. Truman debated it, and that was to keep the emperor. And so rather than a full unconditional surrender, the surrender of japans army, navy, air force and country was conditioned on keeping the emperor. And macarthur, clear to me, understood this perfectly. My book is not on the occupation of japan by the u. S. , but i will say this and am absolutely convinced instead he macarthurs life, career, that this very conservative man who is surrounded by a group of a staff of flatterers and real conservatives who later became advisor to francisco franco, that is very conservative man was not a liberal, despite the fact that he said weve got to labor unions and womens rights in japan. Everyone says how could this conservative man do this . Because it works here. Move bars in japan, baseball on japan, strip joints in japan. This was macarthurs view. If people around the world which is emulate us come that they would be okay. And you know, he can be a fun read, but that was his view and pretty much ready. Did he ever attend to [inaudible] number learns the philippine language. Now, he learned enough to kind of barely get along, but he didnt need it because the philippine political elites spoke english and still do. Youre not going to talk to anybody else. So far as i know man was not a master of languages. He says that in about where america was at the time of pearl harbor, that our greatest expert in the military. Marshall was i at least he knows about the japanese. He never spoke the language, but he did know about the japanese empire freezer generals were they were there tendencies were. She really did at the japanese military. But as far as being an expert on asia, as i said previous, the virus produced. The buyer is very low. You mention macarthurs father was the commander in the philippines. Just reading the bully pulp to, it says William Howard taft was appointed governor that he had macarthur didnt get along. Im wondering if thats the reason Arthur Macarthur never make commanding general at germany. At his reason. Macarthurs greatgrandfather, for the record kiva is a wisconsin judge was called criminal of the army. He led the charge of a wisconsin regiment at Missionary Ridge during the civil war with the cry on wisconsin, which is where we get wisconsin. His father, batman done, macarthurs father was a general in the United States irony and they celebrated highly to read a general. But his view of how to philippine insurrection managed the looking was different than the civilian approach to the philippines. William howard taft was governor general of the philippines and said we dont need to be enemies. Are the filipinos are my little brown brothers, to which arthur soldiers would chant, they may be brothers of William Harvard taft, the mayor brother sydney. It really poisoned arthurs relationship civilian leaders and batteries altered that, he was disliked by the secretary of war you have to believe some of arthurs difficulties with civilian
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