Hairdressing, training program. Host she is a young mother. Guess who she is a young mom, beautiful little girl. Every stretch she is doing quite well but there were some very rough patches. Host blaher . Guest blair is more difficult to talk about. Blair was a student who reminded me the most of myself, very precocious kid. She was a stephen king fan at first and began talking about stephen king. Her grandmother raised her said her vision was that blair would become a lawyer and she certainly have those talents. Blair dropped out of school and she dropped out in ninth grade. She couldnt finish high school and she ended up trying and trying to go back and get her ged and wasnt able to do that. Currently the last i checked in with her she was working the night cleaning job in an Office Building so Something Like a big urban Office Building cleaning at night on the night shift. Host mariah . Guest mariah got married, divorced, had another relationship and had two lovely children, finished high school. His trying to go back to college and become a nurses assistant. Has not quite gotten there yet. Left her partner. Its now a single mom raising these two beautiful children and she is doing pretty well. Host elizabeth . Guest elizabeth has struggled as well. Elizabeth has a very young child. She had a baby a little over a year ago and has a fiance, a steady partner. She en masse finished high school, did not pass one section a for science tests. Her Science High School test and because of that was not allowed to finish high school. Because of that shes a dropout. Host any plans to go back at this point . Guest i would love to go back and as soon as possible. I would love to go back at least once a year and im hoping to go back in the fall and visit cincinnati. Im very busy. Ive run a nonprofit and i for Research Position at duke so im pretty busy but i try to keep up and try to visit as much as i can and try to stay in touch with the seven girls. Host very quickly shannon, and alicia, what are they doing today . And are they still in cincinnati . Guest alicia is the one who is left cincinnati and she got married to an american servicemen, a soldier in the army. They moved away from cincinnati and she has a child. She is married and has her first child and shannon and jessica are both again struggled to finish high school and were not quite able to finish. Shannon did not finish high school. She became pregnant in high school and had a baby that died soon after birth and was born premature. After that point began distancing herself from school and began to kind of fallback and dropped out of high school. Jessica dropped out as well but has gone back and gotten her ged and further College Studies and as i think engaged to be married. Those girls are doing well in the context of their communiti communities. I know they wouldnt be seen by a duke context would not be seen as having gone far with a professional careers but have done extremely well given what they were up against which is and neighborhood of severe poverty and a serious drug problem. None of the seven girls have touched drugs. I think thats a huge thing in their favor that they have not gone the way of durham moms. They said to themselves, we want Something Better for our lives. We dont want to go there and they didnt. Host Deborah Hicks where do you think you are successful and where do you think you would do things differently . Guest i think we were very successful. We havent an intimacy and a super successful class. We had seven girls attaching themselves to school loving the schoolwide experience at a teacher. I think the biggest challenge i faced was just about the time that my class finished i had to leave to come back to my home state and eyes found by nonprofit that i was thinking about bounding. The biggest difficulty was with not being able to finish the class. That is why when i founded my program page i made sure we were serving girls in middle school when they are the most liberal and trying to find who they are and what they want to be in li life. That is something i learned from cincinnati that i brought back to me in north carolina. Host if people arent just in a nonprofit what is the web site . Guest its carolina page. Org, all one word. Host page. Guest page just what the page of the book in its partnership for appalachian education. You can go to a stories page. The page web site and watch digital stories, here is their voices and learn about their lives. We would love for people to check out the web site and make these amazing appalachian girls. Host when you go back there, when you involve these local girls are you treated with suspicion as a harvard dogooder in a sense . Guest in the mountains in Madison County where page is located we have from here as im not from here is. I am kind of set the stage both day from here and they not from here. I rent an Old Farmhouse in the Community CalledSpring Creek Farms and farmers out of Madison County. When im there in the farmhouse im up from here and when i go to the page program where we have for this program for appalachian girls im kind of enough from here. I dont sound like an appalachian girl anymore. I have become more of a a professor in the researcher had that kind of thing. Part of it is always safe from here and it doesnt leave you. You are always in the way the same girl that you were when you were a child. Host we have been talking with author educational scholar Deborah Hicks about her book the road out a teachers odyssey in poor america. I always knew that the bohemian lifestyle and i decided to take it because whether s. Evolution or not, i dont think it is, it helped my concentration. It stopped me from being bored, stuffed other people from being boring to some extent. It would keep me awake and prolong the conversation to enhance the if i was honest, what i do it again the answer is probably yes hoping to get away with the whole thing. Its not very nice for my children to hear that sounds irresponsible. If i say yeah i do that all again to you but the truth is would it be hypocritical and to say know i would never touch the stuff again if i knew because everyone knows. The soviet system in Eastern Europe contained the seeds of its own destruction. Many of the problems we saw at the end began at the very beginning. I spoke already about the attempt to control all institutions and control all parts of the economy and political and social life. One of the problems is when he do that and try to control everything then you create opposition and potential dissidents everywhere. If you tell all artists they have to paint the same land one artist says no i dont want to paint that way want to paint another way you just made them into a political dissident. If you want to subsidize housing in this country and want to talk about it and in the populace agrees that is something we should subsidize then put it on the Balance Sheet and make it clear and make it evident to make everybody aware of how much its costing. When you deliver it to these thirdparty Enterprises Fannie mae and freddie mac, when you deliver the subsidy through Public Company with private shareholders and executives who can extract a lot of that subsidy for themselves, that is not a very good way of subsidizing homeownership. Law professor and author Glenn Reynolds argues americans you to look alternative for the public and Higher Education systems. His book is the new school how the Information Age will save American Education from itself. From the harvard club of new york city, this is 40 minutes. Thank you very much. One small correction to what john said. 10,000 pages from a link is not bad but i discovered it enjoyable triple or quadruple the number to go to the link so long as it contains the word movies. This is the internet after all. Ive never been able to do that with one of johns post but maybe youll be inspired now to offer something. My take on education in america and its Higher Education and k12 education comes from her statements. Maybe i should call its timesl timeslot. If something cannot go on forever it and frequently compressed even by herb stein later on something can go on forever it wont. What cant go on forever . If you look at Higher Education right now we see a lot of stuff that can go on forever but the big thing that can go on forever is this divergence between what people make when they could out of college and what it cost to go to college. Ever since the 70s which coincidentally is about the time the government got into the business of subsidizing tuition and other expenses we had a growth in tuition and fees that has been more than doubled the rate of growth in family incomes. That means people made up the difference with dead debt being a form of federally subsidizing guaranteed Student Loans. Back before the housing bubble people would sometimes take out a homeequity loan to to finance Junior College but while that probably still goes on theres a lot less of it because theres less homeequity. So what does that mean . It means when you graduate from college you all a lot of money. When you graduate from college and you owe a lot of money you need a job that pays a lot of money to pay it off. Heres the problem. There are so many of those jobs. Not as many as there used to be. Youth unemployment is dreadful. The youth misery index which is a new compilation somebody came up with just today that combines unemployment rates under 29 and student loan balances and it set a record high. I think thats actually a moderately useful metric. Use it all the time. In fact i was on tv a couple of nights ago talking about the book and when the sound man was coming over and disconnecting my microphone he said you were telling the story of my life. I owe 110,000 in Student Loans and im working 70 hours a week to try to get them paid off. And thats if you have a job. When i was in law school at a friend friend who is paying his way through law school and Student Loans and he borrowed more money than he needed to and he said i think of it as a law student of robbing a beer. Yeah, sort of. Yale law school was cheap back then in comparison to now in salaries were lower but not much lower as Yale Law School is more expensive. I see this with my own law students. You see people graduating with a lot of Student Loan Debt and getting good jobs that pay a lot and still being strapped. Its easy to graduate with sixfigure debt. The highest debt load for student i have personally known was 400,000 which i stress to add was not accrued at the university of Tennessee College of law where i teach but rather a pricey private undergraduate and graduate institutions attended prior to law school. When you get out 400,000 it doesnt matter how much you make in a job that pays the salaries of brutal burden. The Federal Reserve recently did a study of the impact of student debt and they found students are putting off marriage, putting off car purchases putting off home purchases and all sorts of things we normally think of is as the kind of thing young and middleaged adults do because they cant afford it. You can buy a car when you are making a big car payment and a former student loan payments. You can buy a house when youre already carrying a marriage on your back, im sorry, a mortgage on your back. [laughter] you cant get married as i was about to say when you can afford to buy a house or a car. Thats part of the problem and that is retarding the lives of people and retarding the economy and society as a whole and its something that cant go on forever. So it wont and in fact there there are already science that is starting to not go on forever which is to say colleges this year in particular are starting to see bioresistance. People are thinking very hard about whether they really want to spend 50 or 60,000 a year and up. Every time people find out what the tuition as they say i cant believe how expensive it is compared to five years ago or last year. They are not seeing it as a goodbye especially if its financed by debt. Right now a lot of colleges are dealing with this sub rosa price discrimination. Its just price discrimination. They figure out how much they possibly can afford to pay and thats the price for you because i really like you. You are seeing some schools having their Credit Rating downgraded by mideast. You are seeing enrollments drop acrosstheboard and lots of schools and within colleges you are seeing humanities. The New York Times had a piece on this recently. Humanities departments are in happy because theyre losing their prestige and theyre losing their majors in a row is because especially women dont want to major in humanities because they are concerned about a job and make it out. That has eternal ramifications within universities where budgets are set based on how many students take your classes. So i think they can go on forever and i think it wont. So what happens next . There are lots of things people can do. One thing we might see is people not going to college. 40 of College Graduates wind up in jobs they could have gotten without a College Degree. Whats the difference between a starbucks barista and a starbucks barista who went to college . Student loan debt. Which barista would you rather be . Im not sure i got it right but when donald trump was in financial trouble he pointed at some homeless guy lying in the gutter and he said see this guy he is 500 million more than me because hes not broken in debt. Thats pretty much a lesson for some College Graduates. In todays world while getting ahead is probably harder than its ever been just getting by is probably easier than its ever been between video games internet and hookup culture who Needs College . Many of the things people used to think they have to exert themselves and make a life for themselves to enjoy our available more easily and i will leave it at that. One thing you may see his exit and there are some evidence that men in particular are less likely to go to college as i dont see it as sufficiently rewarding. I will leave that to the exper experts. Another possibility is cheaper alternatives. We are seeing growth in some of that already too. One of them is on line education and theres a lot of that going on. Its now no longer just the university of phoenix and a few other forprofit schools. Georgia tech is offering a masters in Computer Science on line as provost says is a fullservice degree. Everybody is as good as the regular masters except its super cheap. Kind of appealing. Another thing we are saying that i would like to see more of than i think we will is certification in place of a diploma. Im not as convinced as an article in the Harvard Business review today who says its the end of degree. I do think certificates of actual ability and the people who think that her colleges because the Higher Education establishment is getting behind thirdparty establishment that their degrees mean something. Another thing that is starting to happen is the price of apprenticeship. I thought it was a sad article in the washington post. It was about people who have gone to college and couldnt get jobs going back to trade schools to learn how to be electricians and plumbers and things like that. Theres nothing sad about being an electrician or plumber. I was talking to one of my fellow law professors about the exploitation of the working class and his response was i might find that persuasive if i hadnt seen my electricians house. [laughter] being an electrician is good work and theres no reason why a smart person cant be an electrician. The story said the sad thing for these people was they had gone to college and went up their debt before becoming plumbers and intrusions. They would have been much better off if they skip the College Stage entirely but according to the article Guidance Counselors and high school to want to tell smart people their trade. Smart people make better electricians. I dont know if its so bad and electricians make good money. People in Skilled Trades often make more than people make with pas in the coming years one huge advantage of these handson jobs is that you cant be outsourced to bangalore. Back in the 90s we heard stuff from Robert Reisch and michael lind about the growing hegemony of the symbolic knowledge workers and how they would run the world. Heres the problem with being a knowledge worker. When your knowledge worker you are in competition with every smart person on the planet thanks to the internet. When you are a toilet fix or you are only in competition with people within a 15 to 30 minute drive. Thats a Real Advantage so i think those kinds of things might be better. Other possible alternatives, one thing i think the whole model of education as we have pursued it recently is probably obsolete where things change rapidly in people with a long time. The old model got her of education upfront upfront go to high school and college and you are set for life. You go cruising with down lifess highway driving on the education you pontin before. Thats not so valid now because people change a lot. People change careers a lot and some careers of people used to have go away. Theres a sad story of my law firm about a guy who came up for partner and