Unlike a lot of fears about a National Media culture that obliterates the local or obliterates these other kinds of cultures someone like shepard you can see some sort of pushback and some sort of hybrid culture that wasnt necessarily going to take everything that National Cultures offered up. Host the radio industry from the start in advertising based industry. Guest there was a fair amount of skepticism around radio advertising in the 1920s hoover actually decried what advertising would do to radio and the secretary of commerce but it quickly became supported by advertising and there were educational stations and, but they did not have very powerful signals. There were a number that were quite popular specially around agricultural universities that survived but there werent all that many nonprofit stations. My colleague here at catholic will have a book on that for you host where the nbcs and the abcs fattened by these local networks . Guest i dont know if they were necessarily threatened. They saw them as obstacles essentially to what they wanted to do in terms of controlling the maximum amount of scheduled time but for example shepard was one of the founding partners. Probably as a reaction to nbc and abc and cbs but for that reason it really is a kind of mutual antipathy but except it. Mostly because the different stations tented to operate in different times when the National Networks werent offering sponsored programs and things like that. So i would not characterize them as being threatened by them. Host is it comparable to what we see with the local news today in the National News . Guest i think it kind of interesting comparison would be a company like sinclair which has a lot of local news and a lot of local stations but also syndicates its own news packages. So you have things that are appearing to be local but are also given a particular or coming from a National Organization but are given a bit of a local flavor or a local spin and the way in which television and radio as well eats up content so quickly. We are here today demonstrates the content where they can get it in the economies of scale are really important for the profitability of a local station. So that profitability in and of itself gave them a little bit of leeway. You know and this is also a story in terms of interaction of local and national. The intermediaries that made this possible. I also look at the different station Management Companies that basically sold advertising on these local stations for a National Brand and did so in ways that the National Brand didnt have distribution in an area and didnt want to buy a National Network package on that. But again like shepard these are individuals that were creating markets. They were shaping them in describing them in a way to make them appeal to the advertising agencies and the sponsors that they wanted to cultivate. So again its not as cut and dry local and national entity. There are these individuals moving between them and different ways. Host Alexander Russo for the stations politically adept . Did they get regulated differently than the National Networks . Guest yes, they did. Most of the radio regulation is locally based around the different particular stations and its the stations that have to give their program blogs to the fcc which i found actually very important because that was a record that i could trace of the different programs that they were offering because most of the stations didnt keep their own papers around. Yes in so they were regulated differently and even the National Networks, they also owned stations so that was where most of the regulation came from their activity. Host when you talk about the golden age of radio what years are you talking about . Guest we are talking about 1926 to 1953. By the end point it was pretty clear to most of the folks in the radio industry that television was going to take over in significant ways. The fame he famous when he plucked radio stars and brought them over to his network so he would have programming when they got going. And because Radio Networks were so profitable they really underwrote Television Development at that point before television was economically viable. But that howling out process was one that everyone in the radio industry we are pretty sure that the writing was on the wall in that regard. I would argue by that point the networks and the radio industry on many levels had become transforming sophia these different institutions in these different entities such that in the final chapter i look at the rise of distracted listening. In the 1930s Radio Networks really wanted to cultivate this idea of the family sitting around the radio said in the evening and everyone with would single with attention. There is a recognition by the mid1940s that many people had multiple radios. There were radios installed regularly in cars and sets the teenagers were listening to. So all of the things that would later be thought about in terms of the culture of the 1950s were operating in significant ways well before radio, Network Radio collapsed in the 1950s. Host how often has radio been announced dead or on its death bed . Guest any number of times. It will be very interesting to see. Right now we are seeing in another way in which radio has been pronounced dead but you know these are complicated processes and a certain kinds of radio mainstream popular radio, rock radio, maybe waning to some degree, spanishlanguage radio is thriving. There is a new fm issue. The fes fcc after stalling said there may be some very small local stations operating within a broadcast radio within a few miles but serving these microniches that may provide a possibility for a different kind of future programming. On the other hand likewise this is also an era of a flourishing of artistic radio programming. Things like the third coast audio festival shows like this American Life have become cultural touchstones for Youth Culture today. And its not always clear if they are being listened to on the radio or on line. Radio particular gets more listeners to its podcast that it does through its terrestrial prod cast podcast but all this suggests is that it extended radio and the idea of an audio only broadcast continue into the future. Host wended public radio, about . Guest thats that the confiscated story. I mean they were educational broadcasters which i talked about earlier that operated in the 1920s and into the 1930s. They operated in a reduced capacity into the 1950s with spectrum allocation there. They began to get bandwidth so they began to experiment but the locations where they had a lot of the places where they were located on the spectrum were in the uhf or fm spectrum so that wasnt a very popular people didnt have that kind of sets until the 1960s. He really began to have public radio become starting in the late 1960s after the creation of the public broadcasting and you had a claw stuck into a funding bill for Public Television that became a mechanism for a National Public radio network. So that began to take off starting in the late 1960s and early 1970s. There was the mpr bankruptcy in 1978 or 79 or 80 but it became well institutionalized after that point. Host what about talk radio . Guest talk radio started in the 1980s. There were around that the relaxation of the fairness doctrine where radio stations began to be less concerned that they are bided merely one point of view that they wouldnt get the fcc coming after them. Theres also a story around satellite broadcasting. You have the ability to distribute radio programs via satellite meant that the rise of the personalities like Rush Limbaugh they could syndicate their shows much more easily on a live basis where previously it was more expensive for much more difficult with the reduction of sound quality. One of the ironies is starting in the 1980s if we step back a little bit further you do have a return to certain kinds of National Radio and a certain kind of hybridized system where now we have local stations but they will use their drawing djs from different locations and pretending like they are broadcasting from a given area. I think the local public radio traffic guy actually lives in richmond and does his broadcast from there. He describes the local traffic complications in washington d. C. And kind of jumping through spaces in what makes audio broadcasting pretty interesting. Host Alexander Russo when you teach radio in your media studies classes would you want your students to take away . Guest i want them to take away the ways that the medium has transformed itself again and again, that the initial ways that radio was thought about as a pointtopoint medium or as a domain of boorish amateurs in the 1910s and 1920s and this National System of freeform radio in the late 1960s. Its just the ways in which different Media Technologies adapt themselves with different cultural contexts and different economic context and the pronouncement of any medium being better are going to be premature. We need to look at what are the different dynamics that make a medium transform itself or fail to transform itself. What are currently some of the Public Policy issues that radio stations are dealing with . I dont do all that much in policy. I do know that sort of one of the largest fights that i have seen around royalties and in fact because of the late 1930s early 1940s court case with fred waring who was a big bandleader. A certain set of mechanical royalties were not paid by radio stations where the webcasters do have to pay that and a lot of the record labels see that as a revenue stream that they are missing out on and in so doing have given the truncation of playlists to radio stations they really questioned how much does radio or to radio stations perform that promotional function under the exemption to that particular kind of world sea. So i think thats a big issue. I think the amount of debt that was taken on by the large radio chains like Clear Channel in the late 1990s following the talabani can make Telecommunications Act is really one of the big issues of today. They have to maintain a certain level of to a certain extent so we will see how they react to that. Host how many radio stations are there in the states today lacks i mean is that even a question that can be answered . Guest i dont think that the question can be answered. Do you count the lowpower ones . Do you count someone who is broadcasting and you know people are listening to an audio only stream and do we want to count that as a certain kind of radio . Host is podcasting something to watch . Is that becoming a popular medium or is it still on the outskirts . Guest i think it probably had a certain amount of its peak already in the mid2000 but i think it does serve as an interesting precursor to the popularity of Different Streaming Services and the algorithmic case culture spotify and pandora and things like that those are the areas to watch to see how and as well as things like youtube where now that no board is charting partly based upon youtube plays that has shifted a lot of the landscape of what pop music in the United States is understood as. We are talking after the grammy syndicate very much see that schism between the old card in the new i think yesterday in the attempts of the grammys to force them together and different mashups but it will be interesting to see how well they will be able to do that. Host just a taste of Alexander Russos look points on thedial golden age radio beyond the networks. Booktv is on location at catholic university. The first thing i would do is not led the largest Cable Tv Company by the second largest Cable Tv Company. That is where i would start. My job here on the Judiciary Committee is do you know at these hearings is to raise my concerns and mr. Kho and, he seems like a really smart guy. Hes a really great guy i am sure and i would say about him he earns sort of what he gets but my job was to have some tough questions. You see they have 107 lobbyists on capitol hill. They are swarming at capitol hill with lobbyists. But i have 100,000, i had 100,000 people, more than 100,000 people write me with their ejections so the first thing i would do is stop this deal. I would let not this go through. Its not up to me. Its up to the fcc and the doj. Steve booktv is on facebook and twitter. Follow us for book Industry News tv schedule updates behindthescenes look at other events and to interact with authors during Live Television programming. Here are a few of booktvs posts from the past week. Up next after words with guest host Juan Williams columnist for the hell. This week syndicated columnist cal thomas and his latest book what works, Commonsense Solutions for a stronger america. In it he argues that solving the countrys problems starts with looking at what worked in the past discarding politics and listening to voters. This program is about an hour. Host we are joined by cal thomas with your new book what works, and since solutions for stronger america. Forwarded by sean hannity. This tells you a lot about the book hell. Guest sean is a good friend of korzod harpercollins who is publishing the book thought he would dfar good person to have write the forward. I was happy he did so. Nancy pelosi was not available so i was glad to have his forward in the did a good job. Host this is intended for a conservative audience. Guest not necessarily. Solving the problems in america are not republican or democrat. We have serious challenges facing is that affects everyone regardless of their political background or persuasion. Host but if you have sean hannity i believe sean is a quite popular figure among hardline conservatives. Guest sure he is but we try to reach out in this book and actually i believe conservative ideas provide the best solutions to the problems facing America America and as i say in the book of the liberal comes up with an idea that works improves itself and lives up to its stated objectives im for it. Im for social security. Im from medicare and all these programs that were created mostly in liberal democratic but i need to look at them to see if they need to be updated for modern age and if theyre not working when he to revise them or get rid of them. Host in fact the thesis of this book and im going to come back to that idea of thesis because its one you play within the book but the idea is what works . What actually works and what do we know has worked in the past, Commonsense Solutions that come from the past and in some sense come not only from the political realm but for you from your deep faith. Guest there is a increase the essex in the new testament that says everything you have fought before and everything you do its been done before. Im not talking about living in the past. Im talking about looking to the past to see what is worked updating it as necessary and moving forward. If you go to another country for the first time you usually get a guide look to find out where the best hotels are in the best restaurants and places to be avoided. These are people who have gone before us to scope out the cities and to recommend the best places for us. We have the founders of our country who understood human nature at least as well as the preachers of their day and they created the constitution that established boundaries for governments but unlimited life, liberty for the citizens. I believe that is getting out of whack and we have exceeded those constitutional boundaries and that is why we have so many of the problems and challenges that we have today. Host in previous books you had to remind me, you werent saying disengage from public life for the Public Square but people would get that prescribe prescribe reception giving your emphasis on focusing on individual capacity and individual responsibility to look away from government area dont look for government to meet your needs, look to the individual and look to god. I think thats where it all began in the founders certainly saw power delegated from the people to the government, not government overpowering us and that is why government has grown so big and dysfunctional. I dont think theres anybody including the biggest liberal who thinks everything is working well and we had to keep pouring more money into it and grabbing government ever bigger. Thomas sowell a great writer and friend i have this card and they carried around like abdul carries the 10th amendment in his pocket. Much of the social history of the wisdom rolled over the past three decades has involved replacing what works with what sounded good. Our friend bob muckle who i cowrote this book into a column for usa today called Common Ground acknowledge is that of the social programs were begun in good faith in the Lyndon Johnson administradministr ation the socalled Great Society but he acknowledge is now that we didnt take into consideration human nature. Giving people a check and providing women with checks when they have babies out of wedlock was not only good for them it wasnt good for the country. We have moved a long way from John Kennedys admonition ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Host you believe people should remain engaged with government and politics .