Many highways and streets and especially in this country as well, you know . Phillips 66 has become as familiar to many people out here as a coke bottle. Its that iconic in the minds of many motorists. Well frank got his start in the oil business in a sort of convoluted way. He was actually, he was not from oklahoma. He was actually born on the nebraska frontier out in the loop valley. His father was a civil war veteran, fought in the union army, and his parents moved out into nebraska territory. And thats where he was born in 1874. And they came back short will have a that shortly after that the phillips, to their home country in southwestern iowa. And thats where frank grew up. So he had those basically midwestern roots. Came from a big family, big family, many brothers and sisters. He was the oldest and he was the dominant sibling by far. His ambition was strong but it wasnt necessarily pointed towards the oil business because there was no oil business to speak of when he was a young, of course, when he was a boy. It was just beginning back in pennsylvania and ohio and new york. This was the fledgling days of oil and, hence gasoline. He wanted to be a barber. He saw the town barber wearing beautiful striped pants and a morning coat, and he looked like a million bucks, and hed open his barbershop, and he just thought that was splendid. So he decided to become a barber. So he left iowa and made a big circle a swath through the west midwest, northwest. And he did all kinds of things. Including barbering. He was learning how to barber. And he barbered in, of all places when you think of it today, aspen, colorado. Aspen, colorado, was not a chic, fancy place in the mountains back then. It was a rough and tumble town. But he barbered there he barbered in mining camps and lumber camps up through the ranchlands out on the frontier, up in the wilds. And then he came home to iowa. And he decided to set up a shop. And before long he owned all the barbershops in town. By the time he was 22, he owned those barbershops and he became quite successful. He insisted that the barbers who worked for him dressed to the nines, that they carry with them sensen to give to their customers, that they splash on some bay rum in the morning that they all Carry Business cards. And he also showed his first flash of salesmanshippen when he invented when he invented a hour tonic a hair restorative called mountain sage. And the principal ingredient was rain water because phillips noticed that out in the iowa hog pens the big old boar hogs had this big bristle of hair and he was out there watching hem watching them one day in a rainstorm. So he thought this rain water might be good with a little bit of a wink so he bottled this stuff and sold it and made an amazing amount of money. But the kicker is he was bald totally bald. So its the proverbial selling ice cream to eskimos. I mean if this man in his early 20s could sell hair restorative to people in big numbers and he was bald you knew he had the makings of success all about him. He was also smart enough to marry the town bankers daughter, john gibsons daughter Jane Phillips who became Jane Phillips. And his fatherinlaw mentored him, taught him banking business, the bond business. Frank phillips went out in the countryside with a horse and buggy selling bonds. He became very successful but he had itchy feet. He had all those all those phillips boys had what i call gypsy feet. They liked to keep on the move. So he came down here into old indian territory, you know . Oklahoma didnt become a state until 1907. This was indian territory. Came down here early 1900s because a methodist missionary said theres oil down there, and this place is booming. And he came down and sniffed around and said looks good. So he got his second oldest brother, l. E. Phillips the initials l. E. , lee eldest phillips, to come down here and today started in banking and then they went into wildcatting independents just going out drilling for oil. And it built from there. You know, first of all frank wasnt born into a dirt poor family. I guess we would call them today a middle class family, if there was such a thing back then, but as close to it. But they were, they were by no means people with great wealth. So what he made, he had to make on his own. And thats true of all of these people who got involved in the oil business. So when he and l. E. Set up this banking business, they had to make it a total success. And they did. And, in fact, theres a funny story. L. E. Phillips, who was not at all like his brother, l. E. Wasnt as daring, as forthcoming, as personal as frank personable as frank. L. E. Would never have thought about selling hair restorative. But frank was a risk taker. And one day in their bank in bartingsville, oklahoma, a young man came in with cowboy boots and a hat and sat down and he was looked like a cherokee cowboy. And he said i want to, i want to borrow some money. I want to hire some money. Thats what theyd say. And they said well, how much do you want . He said 500. And they did some paperwork, he said, well whats your collateral going to be . He said, thats collateral . Whats collateral . L. E. Tried to explain to him what collateral is but he didnt quite understand it, and he was about to leave, and l. E. Was nervous didnt want to lose a customer, so he went over and talked to frank and said guy wants to borrow some money and he doesnt have any collateral, and frank looked at him and said, hell be all right, lend him the money. He lent him the money. The next day l. E. Found out that the young man was henry starr, kin by marriage to belle starr the outlaw queen. And henry starr was considered one of the best bank robbers in indian territory. Hed robbed more banks sometimes hed rob two banks in a day. And here l. E. Was just panicked. And by god request henry starr paid by god, henry starr paid that loan back promptly, even beforegood. Frank said see, i told you you cant go wrong loaning to outlaws and oilmen, theres little difference between the two. So the rumor got around through the indian territory and the greater oil patch that the phillips boys had these banks, that bank robbers banked all the other banks and did their banking with the phillips, which probably was true. But that was a grub state, getting that banking going. From there, they could finance going out and drilling for oil. But they did that for quite a while and had small oil companies, and they found one found another. They named them for their mother, theyd name them for relatives, and they did very well. That doesnt mean that they didnt sometimes drill a dry hole. Every oilmans drilled dry holes. And sometimes you drill so many youre just about to give up, and that happened to frank a few times. But he said just try one more, and theyd do it and it would hit. But by 1917 frank and l. E. Decided the its time to start decided the its time to start a Proper Company a Big Petroleum company. And in 1917 is when they actually founded phillips petroleum. They owned a big office in new york they opened a big office in new york, and by 1927 they were refining their own oil. And thats when the phillips 66 shields and the retail gasoline went out, and all these Little Cottage buildings with little pitched roofs started showing up across the land. Frank always stayed on the boards of banks, but he, he gave up banking he weaned off of banking fairly early on and just devoted his time and his energy to first, those wildcat oil finds, and then eventually to his company. You know people for years tried to get him to move his company out of oklahoma. They said you dont want to be down here in oklahoma, youve got that new york office. Why dont you move your headquarters to new york or to chicago or to st. Louis, and he said not on your life. Im going to stay right here in oklahoma. He said if i can get a man out to my ranch, i can close a deal like that. Because he discovered that a lot of people were like he was. You know . If youd crack open franks chest, youd pull out the heart of a 10yearold boy. So he would get these bigtime investors, Board Members bankers, all these stuffed shirts, hed put them on pullman, private pullman cars bring them into oklahoma. Theyd get off and theyd have on these great suits and spats and carrying canes and hats and all this and very selfimportant. And to meet them at the station would be people like henry wells who was a retired bank robber, a cowboy bank robber. And they would, theyd have these stagecoaches pick these guys up and then drive them out motto some hotel not to some hotel in tulsa or one of the hotels in finish take them out to willow rock, take them to the ranch. And on the way out to the ranch guess what would happen . Hed have some outlaws with bandannas on ride their ponies right over a ridge, and theyd stop the stagecoaches, and theyd rob em and theyd take all these mens wallets and their watches every bit of their jewelry generally terrorize them a bit then theyd ride off, and these people were, you know, dumb founded. Can you imagine some guy from philadelphia or boston or new york stagecoaches would pull up to the lodge and frank would be standing there with a cigar waiting for them and theyd come in, and there was his japanese valet. Really always with frank. Hed pour them a drink, and they were looking around and there on the other table would be all their wallets and jewelry laid out. And frank would just be sitting there laughing. And hed theyd look at him, and hed have a big glass of milk and say this is buffalo milk. This ises what keeps you going this is what keeps you going out here. And from then on those guys got rid of those clothes, and theyd put on some levis, and hed give them outfits to wear, and for days theyd play cowboy. Theyd go out shooting theyd go out, you know talking to the indians. And at night theyd sit up there on the little mezzanine in the lodge playing poker. And frank would close the deals. The thing that was theres so many things about Frank Phillips that were unusual. He was a really dichotomy. I mean, i know this man just about as well as anyone but i could never figure him out. He was like mercury. I could never get him quicksilver. First of all, he was such a contradiction, a total contradiction. He could be as predictable as christmas and then turn right around and do something totally unpredictable. Here was a guy that had such a profound impact on the internal combustion engine, and he never knew how to drive a car. Never drove a car. Here was a man who would fire you for the least breach of ethics in a new york second and then probably hire you back at the end of the day. And along with that little moral code, this seemingly straight shooter loved outlaws. He liked to be with outlaws. But these are the kind of things that drove Frank Phillips. So you see what i mean by dichotomy and by not really being able to get ahold of him. But i got ahold of him enough. I dont think i really wanted to to get ahold of him all the way. I kind of liked that aspect of franks life. Frank phillips passed away in 1950. And he died in Atlantic City a gamblers town. Thats where he passed. And they brought his body back here to oklahoma and carried him out to the ranch and put him into a mausoleum dug in the hill where his lady jane, where his wife was buried. And frank left in his will ive been in that mausoleum a few times. Its a beautiful greek sort of design with tiles mosaic. And his orders were lets aircondition the mausoleum, i want a telephone in there and lee all my leave all my fishing gear. Because he said someday you guys are going to be at one of my ponds fishing catching my bass, and im going to come down there and tap you on the shoulder and wet my line right next to you. I dont know if thats ever happened yet or not, but thats the way it was of done. Some years ago phillips merged with another old rival of theirs conoco oil, which was located in ponka city oklahoma across the to sage prairie. Now you have conocophillips. You still have the phillips 66 brand and name. There are still phillips offices in all of these cities, and you still see the phillips 66 signs, theyre still pumping gas. But its not the same. Like so many businesses, now we have people with mbas and proper education and not quite as colorful a little more predictable. Great folks, but theyre not quite like those old oilmen were. While in tulsa, we spoke to Jami Fullerton whose book advertisings war on terrorism recounts an Advertising Campaign in arab country cans run by the u. S. State department shortly after the september 11 attacks. I decided to become a teacher because i enjoyed talking to kids, working with the children more than anything. My name is [inaudible] im a schoolteacher in the Public School in the United States of america. I wear aha jeff in the classroom where i teach. Children ask me a lot of questions. I have never had any child that thought it was weird or anything like that. They like the fact both them and their parents, that theyre introduced to another culture. I was born in lebanon, in beirut lebanon. I came to the United States in 84. Islam and the United States in the United States can be followed just as well as i can follow in my village where i was raised. The shared values initiative was a program that the state department launched right after 9 11. Charlotte bierce, who was a former advertising executive, had been invited to washington by koh loan paul coe loan powell and she was sworn in as the secretary of state for Public Diplomacy and public affairs, im thinking late 2002. And she put together this initiative that she called the shared values initiative, and the objective was to, basically, win hearts and minds in the middle east and the arab world. So the initiative was some might call it a propaganda campaign. She was an advertising person and she believed that she could use media and particularly Television Ads to tell folks that, first of all, even though you know, 9 11 happened, were not at war with islam. Theres a lot of things that we have in common, americans and muslims. In my neighborhood all the nonmuslims, i see that they care a lot about their childrens education just as much as i do and about family values. My neighbors have always been supportive truly. I didnt quite see any prejudice anywhere in my neighborhood after september 11th. Thats getting the kids to understand that most important we should work on our similarities rather than our differences. There were three shared values that she found through her research; faith, family and education. And so she took those values and built a Campaign Around them. The core of the campaign were these 90second mini documentaries is what the state department called them. The if you saw them, you would basically say they were commercials. And they were commercials in that they ran on the panarab satellite and on broadcast televisioning in five television in five different arab countries. And so in that way our government paid for these, this messaging to go out to the arab and muslim world. And, to of and, of course it sounded like a good idea to charlotte because she had been paid from the advertising world, and she knew the power of mediated messaging mediaaided messaging but it was very much criticized in washington, and the sense was that it didnt work and charlotte resigned, and then we went into the war with iraq. So how i became interested was there was all criticism, but nobody seemed to have any research to answer the question you know did advertising work in this case . Right after 9 11, of course, nine days after 9 11 president bush said to the american people, you know, why do they hate us . And i think everybody was asking that question, you know . Why do they hate us . And so there was a, there was an awareness on the part of the u. S. Government that we needed to do some image restoration okay . And thats what the state department does. I mean, this wasnt really new in a lot of ways. This is Public Diplomacy. And Public Diplomacy involves winning hearts and minds and telling americas story abroad. And so in the course of that, after 9 11 there was this great urgency to reach out to people in other countries just the regular people. Not government to government, but people to people and say hey, you know, we should all be getting along, you know . There were five spots that they produced and they were testimonials about muslimamericans. So, for example one was a baker in toledo who was originally from libya. And it was they just followed him in the course of his day, and they showed his family and how he ran his pickly and his bakery and sold food from his country and all of his american customers. And then it was a shot of the Islamic School where his children attended. And it also showed their family life and their religious life, i how they were free to pray and worship in america and how there were very little prejudice against muslims in america. About a 15 million taxpayerfunded campaign which really, if you think about international branding campaigns, was very little money. And i i do, i believe that all the money wasnt even spent because it was cut short. Well, there was ooh negative reaction there was a negative reaction many washington. The best way to put it is i think one of the congressmen said you cant sell america like you sell cocacola. Just this idea of using advertising in association with the United States just almost seemed vulgar to many people. But, actually, if you look back in the history of Public Diplomacy, you know there have been many times that weve used popular culture, mass media to, you know, make a point about america. I think part of it was a culture clash, you know . You bring somebody from madison avenue to foggy bottom and there was this automatic culture clash. The media wasnt very kind to her either. They criticized her. And her the folks that worked at the state department really were not well trained in how Communication Works and how its measured and so when folks like Richard Boucher would have to talk to the press, he wasnt very he just wasnt very good at explaining, well yes, its working. Well, how do you know . He wasnt able to interpret that research very well. So i think it was just a combination of things. And i also think that Charlotte Beers wasnt used to having to answer questions like that, you know . She knew what she was doing and didnt expect, i dont think, all the criticism coming from all sides. They tried to make it much more of a political issue. In other words, its inappropriate to use with advertising, this looks like propaganda. The, you know, who is this woman from the the advertising world . She has no business here she doesnt understand the suttties subtleties of politics, and it really was a culture clash. Im still not quite sure because im very much an outsider, and i dont always understand why washington doesnt reach beyond its boundaries and access specialists in areas beyond washington d. C. So im still learning. And im sure there are a lot of, a lot of good reasons. And if someone were here from the state department, they could inform me of that. But as an outsider, as a researcher, sort of as an objective observer who is certainly informed about communications, i was a little surprised at how harsh they treated her and the program in general. Well, when you ask me about, you know how does advertising work in Public Diplomacy, thats where, you know i become very unpopular because most people would say the two things should have nothing to do with each other. But if you think about advertising and how much we learn from advertising, lets think about, you know, only you can stop forest fires. Or click it or ticket. I mean, think about all the Public Service announcement campaigns that have taught us some very good behaviors. And so is if you think about advertising in that way why shouldnt in very select situations the u. S. Government use paid controlled messaging to get across a message, a favorable message about the United States . The great thing about advertising is that you can control the message. And because it is paid media you know that it runs. And, of course, the downside is you reach, you reach a lot of people, its very efficientment some of those people efficient. Some of those people dont care. Some of those people are not in your market. But with certain messaging i think its very appropriate. In addition to a lot of other things that need to be going on. Yes, i think other countries do use paid media at times. And it works a bit different the media world is quite different than it was ten years ago, and its other forms of advertising and pub publicity that you might consider including social media now. But this is related to a concept called nation branding, and there are a lot of countries in the United States not so much but a lot of countries who have very organized Advertising Campaigns to promote their country. And they use advertising all the time. In one way think about tour itch. To the extent tour itch. To the extent that theres a National Tourism board which the u. S. Didnt have until just recently tourism advertising in a way helps people learn about a country, you know . Maybe youve never been to australia, but you sort of know what australias about because youve seen ads about australia, or youve seen movies about australia. So you have to think of it sort of in the Bigger Picture about how much we learn from the media and how it creates pictures in our mind about places and an image about places. And so in that way its all very much connected. During booktvs recent visit to tulsa we toured the oklahoma writers exhibit which takes a look at 60 prominent authors ask their connection to the sooner state and their connection to sooner state. From across the country comes one of the greatest [inaudible] a human revealing story that ininstantly became the most successful novel the grapes of wrath. There are lots of stereotypes of oklahoma that come from some very powerful images. First of all the grapes of wrath. When i was growing up, that was the one book my father would not allow me to read. I could read anything no matter how salacious, as long as it wasnt the grapes of wrath, because he felt it defamed oklahoma. So many stereotypes about oklahoma emanate from that book. Thats not to say there wasnt a dust bowl in oklahoma but were not a dust bowl now and were not a dust bowl forever. So that was the prevailing image. And then we on the heels of the book, we had this powerful john ford film with all the images of the mess her rising, black and white images of the dust blowing. And so, of course, they have lingered with people. Of of course people see oklahoma in black and white. And totally opposite end of that, we had the movie musical oklahoma exclamation point the place where corn grows as high asen elephants eye. Thats not true either. So oklahoma writers i think, have had the extra challenge of reclaiming the oklahoma landscape and oklahoma people from stereotypes that were not all people that use bad grammar that were not all people that you know, live in, you know little shacks and struggle against the dust. But, essentially thats the case for all oklahoma writers. Were telling our story, were reclaiming our landscape and showing what is here. Theres some dust, yes, but theres so many other things as well. The oklahoma writers exhibit is a vision of mine to help make oklahomans more aware of their literary heritage. So many people see all these lists where oklahoma is way down at the bottom of the running when it comes to literacy of the rung when it comes to literacy competency and certain other academic skills, and yet we have this rich literary history. And so the exhibit is a way to make us more aware of that. And its just the beginning, ive got to tell you. We have 60 authors featured. We could go ahead and feature 600. So thats my goal. So were a little bit behind with just the 60. We had the exhibit at several different venues and we did this in conjunction with Oklahoma History center, but several different venues so that these writers are part of our lives and several different locations, several different activities embrace these writers and bring them into our scope. They become a part of our everyday life instead of just being books on a shelf that we might forget sometime. This is part of our multivenue exhibit. Oklahoma writers a literary tableau. Of this particular station is at the Tulsa Historical Society and museum. This is my favorite quote from the entire exhibit i violated history in telling the truth, by the great historian angie [inaudible] what a story hers is the fact that this woman from marshall, oklahoma had the courage to tell the truth about the indian land deaths that were a disgrace to oklahoma but, nevertheless needed to be told. Very interesting in her later years she said ive said some of the most awful things about oklahomas politicians but no one seemed to hold it against me. And i just think thats extraordinary. And then, of course, John Hope Franklin telling the story of the greenwood race riots and some of the prejudices that have happened and occurred in oklahoma. So when we look at Oklahoma History, we see that its a matter of going back and collecting history revisionist history is our real history in many cases in oklahoma. When it was oni Toni Morrison came to oklahoma to do research, one of the things she said that struck her about the state was the fact that it was much more lush than she had expected. A lot of times its interesting the people that have written about oklahoma have actually caused us to change course in our history. Jim lehrer wrote a really funny satire about oklahoma politics bemoaning the fact that there wasnt a crown on the home capital. So if you look at the picture here, you can see that, sure enough, we have a dome now. And many people credit jim with getting that kick started. Exhibited consist of the narrative about various writers. We divided it by genre because oklahoma has extraordinary genres like journalists memoirists historians, literary novelists, playwrights so its divided into genres. But beyond that we also have some personal artifacts just so people can understand that these writers arent some faraway literary figures, they were real people with real needs. For example, we have some of s. E. Hintons artifacts on display. Shes, of course, created the genre of young adult literature. When she was just 16 years old, she wrote the outsiders. Now, the amazing irony to that is she got a d in her creative writing class on the outsiders. But we have her writing helmet. She riding helmet. She loves to ride horses. She also collects bronze frogs, so we have her and she names her frogs. That gives you an inside look at her. Another artifact we have, pulitzer winner tracy letts was asked if he was disappointed that he didnt get an oscar nomination for his screen adaptation of august osage county, and he said no, you know, the only award i ever wanted to win was the pinewooder derby trophy. Pinewood derby trophy. And this is a way to know these authors on a perm level and to understand that their work was very personal to them, that a it was their heart they were writing, their commitment to oklahoma and that they made sacrifices in order to fulfill their artistic dreams. Were at the home of the arts and Humanities Council in tulsa, and were looking at some the writers featured here. First of all western writers. I love this quote from louie la more, he said adventure is just a row hasnt you can name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it but its hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place. And i think that was true for many of these writers. These writers, i think are great examples of defying stereotype. Elmore leonard, the great mystery writer, also the Great Western writer who came from oklahoma, he was so proud of his oklahoma roots. Lived in Oklahoma City briefly but one of his novels was serialized in the New York Times, and it was set partially in the luxurious mayo hotel in tulsa. Well, when the first illustrations came out for elmore to look at, the illustrations said the mayo motel, and it wasnt depicted in all of its grandeur. So he said, no, this is a luxurious hotel, you need to show it for what it is and all thats grand about it. Oklahoma has had its struggles with womens rights. Women couldnt serve on juries in oklahoma until 1952. But women have learned to work around that in many ways. One woman who came from new york to oklahoma was Helen Churchill and helen was trying to get divorced in new york and that wasnt working. Her husband was very powerful there. So she came to oklahoma territory to establish residence and to actually get a divorce. Now, while she was here she wrote the first novel that at least people think this is first novel that was written about oklahoma territory called oklahoma romance. I love the way the New York Times describes the book as a love story complicated with a land claim. And, believe me, a lot of things were complicated with land claims. And then we have a rich history of memoirists. We claim the author of [inaudible] who went to school at the university of oklahoma. And the time she was here reminds us that many people have visited our state and carried it with them. She still has very fond feelings for oklahoma. And then, of course the wonderful satirist sarah vow and one of my favorite essays is what i see when i look at the face of the 20 bill. And shes recalling a road trip commemorating the trail of tears, because her own journey of selfdiscovery. Of course, were very proud, were talking about womens rights a moment ago, the principal chief of the Cherokee Nation who wrote her memoir, who fought so hard for womens rights. She made the statement once that when she just assumed the role of principal chief because the chief had to resign to accept another position that people were find with that. It wasnt until she ran in her own right as a woman that she was challenged to a agree. To a degree. Weve talked about oklahoma writers, we also are so grateful who have embraced our state. Author cliffton tolbert author of once upon a time when we were colored, is one of our most memorable authors. Hes from mississippi originally but he says when he came to oklahoma, he actually discovered his voice. And now, and i think this is wonderful, hes not only writing about his mississippi homeland, but hes writing it and exploring oklahomas history. He and his son marshall, whos a los angeles filmmaker are doing a documentary about the 1921 greenwood race riot. And then our journalists. Weve had some wonderful journalists from oklahoma. I love we all love the classic line from paul harvey, now you know the rest of the story. But, of course, will rogers. So movie people when they a think of will rogers remember him from his wonderful movies. I mean hes the only person i ever have heard of who could actually rope a mouse, but he could. He used a little, tiny rope to rope the mouse, but what we need to remind ourself and what our exhibit items point to is that he was a very dedicated a very dedicated, working journalist. And he was also a very serious man. Sometimes he used the folksiness that hes so known for to address serious subjects. For example, his radio address bacon, beans and limousines, is a timely statement about the inequities of poverty thats forever lasting. Bill moyers is from oklahoma. Think of all the great things hes done. Thats extraordinary. And then the twotime pulitzer winner anthony shah did, who gave his life in the course of covering stories about war. Well, first of all, i want people outside of oklahoma to know that we are a literate state, that we are a state that produced an extraordinary number of incredible writers. People that have, you know written groundbreaking books. I mean, Ralph Ellisons invisible man, for goodness sakes, on the list of 100 best books of the 20th century. Ive also mentioned susie hinton created the genre of young adults, we had pulitzer winners like tracy letts and John Barryman that have made International Impact with their work. So i want to make people more aware of that. But i want oklahomaenns to be able to embrace their own heritage. We need in oklahoma to celebrate and embrace all these wonderful writers that have given voice to us and helped us emerge from the stereotypes. Youre watching booktv on cspan2. This weekend were visiting tulsa, oklahoma, with the help of our local cable partner cox communications. Next we visit professor najwa raouda of Oklahoma State universitytulsa, author of the feminine voice of islam which looks at the challenges that come with being a muslim woman this the United States. In the United States. Muslims in america are in the millions, and we dont know much about muslim let alone muslim woman. So this is a segment of society that we really want to understand because we are misunderstood. The media or what we know about muslim woman is what we know [inaudible] you know oppressed. But when you come to know their stories from their voices, its a different story. I could only choose ten muslim women, and there were lebanon syria, egypt jordan india cyprus iraq and iran. Iran is the one that is very important. The one from iran, for example, had never thought that she would come to america. She was, she was studying here, then got married to an american. It was interesting that before she got married she asked him to become a muslim himself. Which he did. But all her life she wanted a connectioning with god. A connection with god. Because shes a muslim the quran is in arabic, and she didnt know arabic. So her grandmother would keep on telling her if you love god, you have to talk to him in arabic, so you have to study arabic. And she failed all the time. So she thought i guess i still want Spiritual Connection with god. So she started going to church, and then she trained to become a christian, and she now i found a voice, now i can speak to him in english. [laughter] so you know something . This is america has freed her. America has opened the door for her. This would have never happened was she to be in this iran. Was she to be in iran. So this is a new freedom. We dont think muslim women have feminism which they do have feminism which is different because it is cultural and objective are different from our understanding in western feminism. So its very interesting, their stories. The one as i was telling you about, from united arab emirates. A student very bright, she won a scholarship to osu, and to finish her masters degree, she came here and she wore the veil. She come from a very educated family harvard oxford, everybody in her family highly educated. And when i told her, well now you have finished your masters degree, why dont you take a couple of years and finish your doctorate degree, she said no its time for me to go home and trust my parents to arrange marriage. This is time for me to get married, start a family, and then ill come back and finish my doctorate degree. Amazing, the threat of arranged marriages, because in that Society People dont socialize, men and women. They dont go out they dont live together theyre not supposed to. So they have trust for their families to choose somebody who really fits in the family, who really is very much like her and is accepted. And they, she was telling me that both of them wanted to have children, the groom and the bride, will have to make the marriage work because it has been the decision of the family and they have done a good job. So its very interesting. The misconception and misunderstanding is that women are oppressed and it is us and the west that have to free them and help them get their freedom. Its not so. So many of them are participants and it was interesting, the lady from damascus has never worn the veil in damascus none of her family. She came to america and her husband didnt ask her to do this, it was just [inaudible] attire that was muslim. And when her kids became 14 years old or something, she wore a veil. She chose to. And it was interesting how she explained it to me. She said i go out now, no, i dont want people just to be attracted to my beauty or look at me as an object. I go home and my kids are quieter than before. They know that i have [inaudible] with prayers, i have a culture to keep, and that im sort of religious. So she said even my husband became quiet. He is now talking to a religious woman. He can ask her [inaudible] and she said i have both peace in the house. And shes happy with that. Shes happy with that. Very interesting. The veil has been an eshoo from the time of the an issue from colonization. Its something they believed they wanted the whole world to believe that its a sign of oppression, its a sign of having woman it is not so. It may be so in some societies but not all over the world. We see them in canada, we see them in pakistan. These people are choosing the veil as sometimes as a statement, sometimes as an identity sometimes because they want to have peace, sometimes because they dont want to objectify themselves, i dont want to deal with you just respect me as a coworker or a student, etc. Not as the beautiful one. So of course theres a whole bunch of people who are opposed to them but Something Like 2 . And when we see hem in europe, the people see them in europe, the people who wear the whole thing, the burka thats 2 of the society. This is what we see. We have also the negative thing about veil because its become associated with islam and now when you listen to the news, we have all this problem with islam in the world. Whether its in libya in iraq now with isis with alnusra, all over the world, so this is something that we need to deal with and, you know, try to liberate them from. When i talk about this book, my intention was to bridge this gap of fear and ignorance. Once you know their stories, you feel that they are like you, like anybody else. They have aspiration for their kids, they have success. And when i really work on this, i believe in womens power. They can communicate. They have the love, they have the understanding. I believe that they are the core of the family and the society and the world. So strengthening the woman, understanding, hearing their voices hearing their story, it will give you an opportunity to feel that they are like you and not fear them. If you fear them, you make them them versus us which is very very wrong. Thats what happened in europe. They ice hate them. You have to do your best to integrate them. So when i finish writing the interviews, my professor asked me to give a solution. I said, okay, the thing is that i propose a curriculum written for woman by woman to teach woman and help them in betterment. Because they do have the intention to become better in society. And once they are in the society, they are a part of it and they call it home, its your home as much as it is my home. So this is my curriculum that i have proposed. Unfortunately, i never had the time to start on the curriculum but i think it would be very much worth it and educate women and help them with all aspects of being integrated into western society. This weekend booktv is in tulsa, oklahoma, with the help of our local cable partner cox communications. Next, we visit with Oklahoma State University Professor or stacy tackies whose book terrorism tv, becomes the ways popular entertainment has dealt with terrorism following the events of september 11th. Terrorism really started to be portrayed on television actually, in the 1980s. We actually had an initial war on terrorism during the reagan years, particularly in relationship to some of the bombings that were happening over in lebanon and libya and places like that. And kidnappings were big. Not just the iranian hostage situation, but actually kidnappings of journalists, and they were held for ransom and this was an obsession at the time. So technically, you know, theres this fresh war in terror first war on terrorism in the 80s. Terrorism the way we think about it today, it starts with 9 11. On 9 11 the scope of the disaster was such that it seemed to require a different kind of response. And so its at that moment that our culture becomes really obsessed with terrorism and arguably inflates the threat of terrorism well beyond what was necessary at the time. This new mentality manifested itself on television initially, you know im mostly concerned with entertainment television, though i do talk a little bit about news and it initially manifests in news reports in part because theyre covering officials, and officials are talking about it. And, you know whenever our politicians are talking about something, thats what tends to show up on our news. But it does trickle into our entertainment programs in a variety of ways even before 9 11, but particularly after 9 11. And its largely the line that these shows take on terrorism is largely dictated by our politicians. So initially many of the programs are fairly supportive of the wars on terror and the turn to war after 9 11. They pretty well follow along with the depiction of 9 11 as an unprecedented historical event and portray it as such. So, you know, it tracks pretty closely along with what the official opinion is regarding this incident initially. Now, that change as as the wars go on. To give you an example of how our understanding of terrorism it predates 9 11 a little bit three of these the most famous of these spy programs were actually conceived and planned to air well before 9 11 happened right . So you have three; alias, 24 and the agency all which premiere in 2001. Which means the planning for these shows predated 9 11. So theres already a source. Alqaedas on the agenda. Its not as if we didnt know about them, we just did not know they could pull off something of the scope of 9 11. After 9 11 shows like the west wing start to tackle more Foreign Policy issues than they had previously. West wing was a show about the white house and the behindthescenes operations at the white house for people who dont know. And initially, they dealt with things Like School Funding and how do you take a poll and what is the era and why should we have it or not, right . Is these are all very domestic concerns. After 9 11 it becomes much more about Foreign Policy. There are episodes where the president has to decide whether to bomb a middle eastern and nameless well, its not nameless, its a madeup name, middle eastern country in retaliation for an assassination attempt. And things like this. So those are some of the shows, particularly post9 11 we get this explosion of spy programs. So its not just the three that i mentioned, but there are things like tnts the grid, showtime has a show called sleeper cell which does really well, theres a terrible one on abc could threat matrix which doesnt last very long, but its clearly drawing directly out of Bush Administration discourse. They have this report called the threat matrix which the president was read into every morning. This is a show that was playing off that idea. And as you can probably guess given the name, you know, it was fairly terrorists are evil theres no excuse for them and theyre in league with drug dealers. All criminals sort of got lumped into the category of terrorists, and they were all bad, and the good guys all win. It was pretty simplistic and thats why it didnt last very long argue arguably but thats a good example of post9 11 our interor townment is tracking along with the prominent discourse. The programming started to shift a little bit because i believe that the wars started to not go the way that we had hoped. And Public Opinion starts to become more divided over whether these wars are sustainable, whether they were ever legitimate in the first place in the case of the iraq war in particular. There was a lot of debate about why we were there, right . Saddam hussein had nothing to do with 9 11, why did we attack him . And why did we leave osama bin laden, effectively, why did we abandon the hunt for him . So theres this split within the Public Opinion and coupled with the lack of success of these early programs, i think that leads to a little bit edgier production. And then you also have, you know Cultural Industries may be all about the bottom line, but you still have people within those industries who are smart people and who want to create programs that address can things theyre concerned with in a smart way. They want to do a good job. And so some of those producers were able to create programs that, with a little more moral complexity. Often these are located not on Network Television, but on premium cable. So cleaner cells a good sleeper cells a good example of this. It has a black muslim hero and i dont think you could do on Network Television even today i dont think you could do it on Network Television. You certainly do it, you know, in 2004 2003 or 4 when this show initially aired. Showtime works under a different economic model. They dont have to please advertisers, they dont have to get big ratings in order to have a success or to define success. Success for them is simply how many subscriptions do we get. Do we maintain our subscriptions . And if we do, then thats considered a success. If we get critical acclaim out of our programs, thats considered successful because it draws attention to the network and it increases subscriptions. So working under that model the producers of sleeper quell are able to sleeper cell are able to get away with more complexity because they dont have to cater to popular tastes and to advertisers who are always a little reluctant to deal with controversy, you know . Controversy submits audiences and it splits audiences, and it might drive people away from the products placed in those shows. But on showtime thats not a concern. I hope that they take away from my book that this was not a simplistic exercise in the government prop p begantizing propagandizing to people. That is not the message i want people to talk. There are a lot of complicated factors in there. The industry the industry had its own motive for doing these things which sometimes jibed with the Bush Administrations motives, but at others times were die diametrically opposed to the administrations interests. And i try to look at both those texass that are relative texts that are relatively supportive of the official line on 9 11 and on the wars on terror and also at those which existed everywhere as well which were trying to complicate those discourses. And arguably, on in entertainment television, as frivolous as we like to think it is, we were having some of the most interesting, complex discussions about terrorism, about u. S. Foreign policy about how these things should play out, way more interesting than what was happening on the sunday news talk shows right . Which were dominated by the politicians from washington. All of whom were with rare exception, on the same page as far as our response to 9 11. So, you know, we were really having these much more interesting discussions on shows like west wing, or i talk a lot about Science Fiction programs toward the end of the book and shows like battlestar grabbingty ca galactica and jericho, both of which imagined these possible futures where u. S. Citizens were placed under occupation, and we had to think about, okay, if you had to live under these conditions conditions that we were imposing in iraq onto the iraqi people if you yourself had to live under these conditions, how would you feel about it . What would you be willing to do in order to resist, you know . So fascinating stuff. And thats, you know, what i hope people take away is that this is really a complex moment in Television History with a whole range of opinions being expressed, a place where we were airing all of these possibilities and debating them and thinking them through. The 5 minutes about the book. This book is really about reading. Ostensibly it is about reading the work of Nicholson Baker but really it is a book about reading. I say that because you havent even heard about Nicholson Baker, you might be saying to yourself how could i read a book about Nicholson Baker how would that make any sense to me at all . The truth is if you havent read Nicholson Baker or even heard of him, even if youre hearing of him for the first time tonight, you may be the perfect reader for this book because when this book begins i hadnt read Nicholson Baker either. As you can probably imagine theres a story very and the story is this. Some time ago i started to get interested in how we write about literature. I was worried about how we write about literature because it seems really strange. We grow up crating stories when we are very young. We absolutely crave and love stories. Mom, please tell me another story before i go to sleep at night. We go to school and we start getting interested, introduced to the study of literature and that includes we get taught how to think about literature and how to write about it. Something happens there. That love and passion emotions we associate with reading, frustrations of reading, a anger at reading, the sadness, poignancy, arousal, all of the emotions we come to associate with reading kind of get cut out and we are not supposed to include those things when we write about literature. We are not even supposed to conclude ourselves. We get to school cutting into high school and early in college and suddenly in writing about literature we are supposed to argue, be persuasive, you are not allowed to include yourself and i started thinking about that, i set out to find what i thought of as a Better Writing about reading and what i hoped to find was that there would be stories about literature so rather than arguments about literature what you would have would be the story of your relationship with an author or a book and it turns out there is plenty of that out there. It is not the way literary criticism works. It is not the way you get taught how to think about literature but the truth is for many years going back 150 years, way back to people like Matthew Arnold and john ruskin and on through to people like henry james and Virginia Woolf and d. H. Lawrence and Frank Oconnor and cynthia, the people who are writing today like rebecca need and if you know these names you know they are describing a century of progress and doing it in this passionate way, i thought of these as a creative criticism, literary relationships stories, they were the story of your relationship with an author rather than argument about them. In looking at all of that, what i found was that there was a hole, no one had ever done no one had ever done no one had ever done this story of a relationship from its moment of conception, from that moment when you first hear of a writer and say to yourself i need to read that person, i need to seek out that person, find their work in this strange no one had ever done that because we all go through that dozens of times or hundreds of times were constantly hearing of writers and saying to ourselves maybe we should seek out that persons work it is very ordinary yet no one had ever told that story. And so that was in the back of my mind, something i wanted to do. As i started executing small blacks of creative criticism and many litter relationship essays and books and thinking i might want to do this some day but not necessarily due to write about and that was when i heard of Nicholson Baker and it was strange because when i first thought of him i realize i have already heard of him, somehow he had crept into my mind and he was an author whose name i knew but i couldnt remember the first time i had heard this name and the literary world sort of looks like this constantly getting inundated with names and we dont even process fact the we are lodging them away in our minds waiting for other connections and so forth. I realized i even knew something about Nicholson Baker, and i knew that he had written this book called you and i. End it is a literary relationships story so it was strange that i hadnt read you and i because i was interested in all these stories and i knew it was about his relationship with john updike and it was peculiar and why havent i read this book . I ordered it and had it around the house, then something happened. All of this meeting i had done all these literary relationship as a is that i had read i put together. I wound up teaching a class and used them for the essays into a book that proposed a better kind of writing about reading and that anthology was called the story about the story and tim has worked published in 2009. Looking back, you and i was really the kind of book i should have been looking to include on that anthology but i didnt because i hadnt read it. What happens is my anthology was published and two are three months later, Nicholson Baker published a book and i learned the name of the book and two months after i published my anthology he published the an ecologist. And i thought that means something, that was so strange as to appear almost like faith and this is something really central to our reading live, this is a book about reading and not just about Nicholson Baker. When we are sifting through all these writers we have heard of and trying to decide who or what to read next we look for those books that bear on us that seem to have something to do with us. That is how we choose them. As soon as baker published the book the and colleges, it seemed like he had a whole lot to do with me. That is when i started writing about him. I tried to figure out how to sell the idea for a book and tell the story in the book, this is the kind of book in which it tells the story of its own creation and Nonfiction Book proposals lease status syllabi proposal so i had to come up with a book proposal or Business Plan for the book that essentially said there is this author that probably a lot of people havent heard of, kind of a writers writer, many people who have read Nicholson Baker but he is not a household name in any way. I want to write a book about him but i havent met him either randy is going to be great. That was my plan and that was the book proposal went if ever you need a solution to your crisis of faith about the state of publishing and the world, simon and schuster went with me on this plan and they went ahead and bought this, they took the speculative ride with me and it was fantastic. That is why i say it is not about strictly reading Nicholson Baker that is what i go on to do, it is more about the whole process of how we choose the writers we choose and why we do that and how fat works. From there, the book does sort of chronicle the experience, i wanted to tell the story of a litter relationship from the moment of conception when you first hear the writer, all the way to when you have Read Everything they have done. That is what i did but is not just that. I will read just the first sentence of the book because it says a couple important things and it is really quick. The book begins what seems odd now is that i found law at the same time i forgot how to law books. That establishes a few things. First there are two stories, a story of two relationships and the first disney discovering and falling in love with the work of Nicholson Baker so as to save myself from the crisis of having lost the love of literature. The other is the story of my partnering. In addition to chronicling the experience of reading baker telling the story of my partner and i as we live in st. Paul or moved to oklahoma for a vacation in paris for a while and eventually when we go together to main where i encountered Nicholson Baker and talk to him for awhile and you might say to yourself can you do that in a book about literature . That does go back to that basic tension between the way literary criticism tends to work and this idea of creative criticism or literary relationships stories. Frost once said that what we remember most about a book is where we were when we read it and i thought that was an interesting quote. He said that in his essay on reading which interestingly enough is about the world of criticism, he said this it is really true. If you think back on the books you have read you might find you made an association between the book and where you were or who you were what your life predicament was at that time. So again it seems odd that this thing that happens in you practically biologically, something you register without realizing you are registering gets cut out of what you are allowed to write about your experience of books so i wanted to do at and that is how this bookworks. It tells these two stories. The story of my reading baker and the story of my relationship with my partner and how those two love stories twined together and become connected to one another and what this illustrates the way that our reading lives are not separate from the lives we live while we are reading. The context of ourselves is the most important context the we read from. We shouldnt cut that out when we write about literature. What i actually wound up reading baker, it turned out my suspicion that he would be good for this project was spot on and thank god it was. What it turned out i hated his work . It would have been terrible. It turned out to be perfect for a lot of different ways. Just touched on bakers fascination with the impact of the digital revolution on the literary world. That is something we have all got in the back of our minds and something i was thinking about, something that got me thinking about how we write about literature in the first place because it seems to me that literature is under threat not story telling, but books, the object of the book does seem to be suffering some what. Theres a lot to say about that and we can debate that if you want in the questions but that was one of the things i am thinking about and baker was interesting, his career from the earliest stages was touching on that. Something not a lot of people know. The mezzanine was written entirely on a computer, bakers first novel was written entirely on one of the Earliest Computers from the mid 80s. There are earlier computers and there are some scifi writers or thriller writers who were writing on screens before baker was but it is fair to say that the mezzanine, bakers novel, pivotal book for him and his career was the first literary novel of note to have been composed entirely on screen. It is not to say that bakers concern for this was only as an enthusiast for the digital revolution. Egypt site himself fully to that and later on he wrote a book about libraries called doublesfold. He was thinking about what was happening, how technology was impacting the world of books and the way the processes of miniatures asian and digitization were impacting libraries and what they were doing with their holdings, what they thought of as their job, and miniatures asian had a bizarre history stretching back to the shrinking of battle plans to the size of things you can strap on the leg of a pigeons the you can communicate your plans across distances or whatever and digitization had a similar history in the intelligence community. They could document this, the way this enabled libraries to deemphasized the importance of keeping and holding books as part of their mission so libraries turning toward more Information Science idea rather than a keeper of books ids of baker was concerned about the impact of the digital revolution on books in addition to being an enthusiasts of it so he was interesting in that way. He is also interesting for a whole other set of books he has written which i loosely called his sex books. These are house of holes house of holes to give you an idea, the subtitle is a book of raunch. They are thinly veiled literary pornography or maybe even not thinly veiled, maybe not veiled at all. But that was fascinating to me because it was something i was thinking about in the sense that i suspected that these books were metaphors, that there has been for out long long time on metaphor that reading books offers us the kind of intimacy that has no better analog than physical intimacy. You get very close to another person. You have a private encounter with that other person. Two people together and the reading experience, something beautiful is created out of nothing. That metaphor is late and there. And of course since i was twinings is together with the story of my own relationship, to falling in love and being with someone for a while at thes and downs of that relationship and thinking of all of that has a metaphor for our reading lives and recognizing baker was perfect for this because he was writing about this all along and what was interesting about that was no one had seen that in his work or not in a very enthusiastic way. If you havent heard of Nicholson Baker at all you can be forgiven but if you know one thing about baker you may know that his first book of literary pornography, rocks, was the book Monica Lewinsky gifted to bill clinton. Given what played out as a result of that affair it may be safe to say that it is one of the more influential books in history. He was perfect for that because with those books were really about was this meeting as intimacy metaphor. Once i started to read them for that they were everywhere and that became something i could explore in the context of a book that wasnt just a novel but a book about a novel that was a story, it was a kind of criticism but was a criticism in which i could tell the story and employ the same metaphors. And last, baker once said something i thought was fascinating. He said a few years ago, after i started this project, he gave his paris review interview. Paris review interviews said the interview of records you pears review decides to interview you. In his paris review interview he said that he tries to write and filmable books. I thought who does that these days . I was trying to write a book that was about defending the idea of the book as an important cultural artifact. I mentioned storytelling earlier. Storytelling is interesting because it is such a broad umbrella of possibility. You have tv, you have film you have drama and you have things like musicals and operas. These are all forms of storytelling and the advent of ebooks hasnt really threatened storytelling at all. Storytelling scenes like it is poised to not only survive the digital tsunami it will serve that tsunami and do just fine. But books are a different thing and it wasnt clear to me, i say this in the book, i dont think it is clear that books are not going to wind up as a deceleration in storytelling fall from the epic poem to saw hollywood epic. Who is out there working to defend the idea of the book, the importance of the book, who is out there saying the book is an important version or medium of storytelling. Nicholson baker is fair. That was one of the things recognized, theyre not in no way we can put batch into this. No Nicholson Baker book has been turned into a film. A really bad british romantic comedy that borrow ideas, for the most part no one has even tried to because he can because they cant and they cant because baker was more or less trying to prevent them from being able to do that. Saying i want to write a book that absolutely must be a book. Cant be anything but a boat and that is the way we defend books as an object as an important cultural artifacts. That brings me back to why this book isnt really about Nicholson Baker. It is about beating his work. He becomes a kind of representative of all writers. I may be using him as a symbol in my book saying we are all living through this digital era were all living in the time when books seem to need to compete with lots of different kinds of media baker turns out by accident to be the perfect writer to look at, to ask what is the writers job these days . What should a writer be doing to ensure that books survive . He became a representative to me of all writers and i hope what the book winds up being about is not baker per se but please that, not that you all go read things by baker and public that would be great that you did that the you go and find some writer find some writer region exhaustive lee, read their books, john just wait for the movie, that is very much what i want this book to be, a plea to recognize maybe something is not as good as it could be we are a little under threat and there is a solution right there you just read it. I will leave it at that, there are some questions right here. There is a microphone behind you. We need to pitch. In Chronological Order why did you make that decision . I set out to, started with you and i, we had a line in hand. It appeared when i learned the and fallen just was published and i had just published my anthology, it was right next to me so i could reach over and pick up and start reading. I did try to go back and read him in order but that broke down after a while. I didnt worry much about it. You very rarely, pickup with the writers work unless they are riding their first book when you have to be alive and write when you happen to be looking for the next thing to read. More often way more often, we step in mid stride and in a way that might even be better because i talk about this at one point in the book, one of the pleasures of the reading life, one of the and remarked upon pleasures of the reading life is when we read a writers later books we go back to their earlier books and see, reverse the way they thinking evolves. Kind of an out of time quality to it so i started out, i will read them in order experience his books the way he did, then i outgrew that and realized one of the benefits of books one of the benefits of being able to preserve stories in some permanent form and be able to consult them is you can go in some other order and experienced in another way. Yes . Can you talk about the word literary arousal and how is that different from literary romance or something to that effect . I am curious why you chose the word arousal . Seems like there is significant there other than romance. I guess what i think is when we think about our reaction to books, longest is a better metaphor than law ove. I talk about teaching and as a teacher your job is to rouse your students attention, but you got to be careful because you cant arouse them. And of course that is a kind of silly in the context of teaching literature because so much of literature contains taboo subjects. Createive writing is just sort of a step from procreative writing. When proof describes literature as an incitement i think its just a tiny hitch step from an excitement. And when [inaudible] writes a loves discourse, its, you know, hes talking about loving books, and hes getting pretty bawdy in that book too. And thats, of course just a very small hitch step from a lovers intercourse. So i think this metaphor is everywhere we look. And i guess i wanted to find a way to talk about something that might seem dry otherwise which is that i think that were thinking better when were reading than at any other time in our lives, that we are more intelligent while were in the act of reading. We are triggered. We are made better by the act of reading. And it kicks us out of the to to have por or a nonreading existence. And we make associations, we draw imagely in our minds in a way that we dont when were not reading. We are aroused as we read. And, of course, thats just a hitch step from arousal. And simply recognizing that its that kind of a process is something that i think weve kind of forgotten, you know . You hear a lot of people joke about it, you know occasionally, but i wanted to take that metaphor as far as it could be taken. And i do in the book. And i would tell you more about that, but [laughter] you know literature is that place where you talk about the things you cannot or will not talk about in any other precinct of human discourse, including live readings and television. What else . Yes, sir. So because you havent read Nicholson Baker [inaudible] if you could go back and read anyone, would you change . [inaudible] where would you start . Who would you pick . Well, you know no. I think he turned out to be perfect choice, you know . And the experience of the book you know, it was once written in a literary relationship essay about a relationship with joseph conrad. He wrote that we read to discover what we already know and his thoughts not really done there but i had that as kind of an anthem when i was writing book. And the truth was that i found so much of myself in baker. Everywhere i looked. Every time i turned around, there was some new connection between him and me. And i felt indicted by him, i felt included with him. And so he was the perfect writer for me. But which was not to say that he would necessarily be the perfect writer more you or for anyone else. So i say toward the end of the book that the purpose of this book is not to find, not to suggest that you read nicholson bake we are, but you find the writer that will be Nicholson Baker for you. And, to of course nepals not done with that statement. You read to find out what you already know, you know, we read to explore the streams of our own thought, right . We sail up the headwaters of our own thought to find that lake, that reservoir of thinking that makes us who we are. But thats not the whole story, because youve got to go the other way too, right . You have to go beyond what you already know and really explore the author on their own terms for the news that they have to give you. And baker certainly had that for me. And it was, he was the perfect writer for me to go on that journey. Thank you all very much. Thank you, everybody. [applause] for more information on booktvs recent visit to tulsa, oklahoma, and the many other cities visited by our local content vehicles go to cspan. Org localcontent. The name of the book is pain a political history. The author, princeton University Professor keith wailoo. How do you write a political history of pain . Guest thats a wonderful question. So my background is as a historian of medicine and ive always been perplexed by the fact that we have such a hard time treating people in chronic pain in america. That is to say, debates about whether too much medication promotes drugging addiction how to drug addiction, how to measure pain is something thats not easy. But what i realized when i started to do the research on why this medicine has been controversial is how it intersects with deep and divisive issues in american society. About how you measure pain. How do you decide whos in pain and whos not. The story really becomes high hi politicized highly politicized way before today, it becomes politicized in the 50s when we establish b a disability provision in social security
vimarsana.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.