Or 70 years as an activist and her involvement in the Civil Rights Movement. This is just under an hour. Cspan Dorothy Height, who got you to write a memoir . Guest so many people for a long time have been after me to write my story. But really, it was dr. Camille cosby who finally sat me down with some people and said, this is something that you really should do. And then my good friend, maya angelou, who has such a distinguished career, when i talked to her about it, she said to me, well she helped me to get a sense of telling my story, or telling the story that ive been a part of. Cspan what do you thinks the most important part of this story . Guest it may well be the the role that i have and the opportunities that i have had as a woman, as a black person growing up in the United States, and as one who really, from my teenage days, have been a part of organizations and active had an active life. And i have been in touch with so many people, and really have had the opportunity to work on five continents and meet people of all kinds of backgrounds. And i think it may well be that its in sharing something of what so many people have given to me. Cspan now, i know its not a secret because its in the book that youre 91 years old. Guest i am 91. I was 91 in march. Cspan are you still active . Guest very active. Cspan what do you do on a daytoday basis . Guest well, i go to work every day. I am the chair and president emerita of the National Council of negro women, and we initiated two or three years ago a process of transition and activity, so ive been a part of it. But im pretty active not only in the National Council of negro women, im chair of the Leadership Conference on civil rights and had an active role in civil rights. Cspan i want to ask you about some of the people that you mention in the book. When was the first time you met Martin Luther king . Guest i first met Martin Luther king, he was 15 years old. He had come to Morehouse College at a time when to become a student at Morehouse College without graduating from high school because it was part of the gifted program. And i was in atlanta for the ywca of the United States, and i was director of training. And my white colleagues would stay in the hotel, but i couldnt. And that gave me, really, the opportunity to stay with dr. And mrs. Benjamin mays. He was the president of morehouse, and he his wife invited me to come home early one evening to meet what she said was she said, i want you to meet bennies favorite student. And it turned out to be Martin Luther king, jr. Cspan what year would that have been . Guest that was 1945. Cspan what do you remember about him at age 15 . Guest i remember i remember what an experience it was to sit and around dinner and then after dinner to just hear him think like any 15yearold would do about what he wanted to do and what he wanted to be, whether he wanted to go into ministry or medicine or law. And you know, one of the things that struck me so mightily was i knew that i was in the presence of an unusual person, not only because he was gifted but because of, really, the nature of even the conversation. And then 10 years later, when rosa parks refused to give up her seat, he was my leader, in 1955. It was a tremendous experience. Cspan now, theres a picture in your book were going to get it on camera here from a famous day in 1963. Guest yes. Cspan you got to look carefully, but youre right there in the middle. Tell us what that pictures all about. Guest well, that picture really represents several things. It was being a part of what i think was one of the greatest experiences in america, and not only for me but for everyone. But it also is a reminder to me that Martin Luther king, jr. , made a great speech, and that was an unusual occasion. But also, i was one of the women, along with mrs. King and mrs. Abernathy, seated on the platform, but you know, we tried very hard to get the opportunity to have a woman speak. And byron reston, who was the executive for the program, said, of course, there were women members of all of the organizations the unions, the churches, all of the different organizations which were represented. And so women were represented. It was hard to convince him, and we didnt convince him, that while we were pleased to hear their male heads, but we wanted not me but any woman. And we had a whole long list of who could speak and have a voice of a woman. But one of the things ill never forget is that the only voice we could hear of a woman that day was Mahalia Jackson singing the national anthem. But the women nevertheless we took our seats, but i dont think that would ever happen again. Cspan what what was the import talk to someone whos 20 years old today and tell them the importance of 1963 and that march. What did anything change after that . Guest there was a spirit. There was a sense of righteous indignation. There was a coming together as i have never seen. And i think that any young person at that time had to have a feel that they were witnessing a moment in america that was a america at its best. And it was a it was a kind of experience that brought together people of all races, all ages, male and female, all denominations. But there was a sense of unity. And i think thats that was the heart of that day, and i think it was only as years have gone by that we see that we lost that drive. The climate has changed. Cspan how many white people were there . Guest oh, many. Many. The representation was just phenomenal. Cspan what was the purpose of the march . Guest well, it was really a march for jobs and freedom. You know, a. Philip randolph, who called the march, had called one during the roosevelt administration, but president roosevelt issued executive order 8802. And so his march that march never was realized. But this time, a. Philip randolph called for the march, and it was for jobs and freedom the first call really helped to get the principle of fair Employment Practices moving, but this time, it was an effort to really speak up for jobs and for equality of opportunity. Cspan i want to read you a sentence couple sentences from your book. You say, ive often thought about those words and you were i dont even remember who you were quoting, but you say, as i look back at that period now. Guest louder cspan . I can see that for all of the quiet work that was done, it took direct action through the marches and the selmas and the more militant acts on the problem to bring about real changes. Guest yes. Cspan so are you saying here that without the militant actions, you wouldnt have gotten the changes. Guest no, because i thin for a long time, we put a lot of attention on dealing with prejudice and bigotry and building race relations, interracial groups. But it was we i think they came to the realization that we were not dealing so much with interpersonal relations. And i think this is where the Civil Rights Movement moved us, to the realization that we had to change a whole system that was based in segregation. And it took giving evidence of the way in which segregation worked not only to the people who suffer but to the whole community, direct nonviolent action to highlight, to really focus attention on the reality of segregation and discrimination. Cspan you grew up in what town . Guest in a little town called rankin. It was a borough of pittsburgh, a tiny little town, population of about 7,800 people, and largely an outpost of the farm born. It was an interesting little community. Cspan what were your parents doing at the time . Guest my father was a building contractor. And while i had been born in richmond, he was among those who in 1916 felt that there were better opportunities in northern communities, and so he chose and the family moved to rankin. My mother was a nurse, and in fact, she was the head of nurses at a hospital in richmond, virginia, a black hospital. My father was very fortunate because he could find work. In fact, he employed people. He was selfemployed all his life. But my mother, being a nurse, was not able to work in any hospital, nor was there a nurses registry that would take a negro at that time. Cspan you say in your book, early on, that you were not aware of prejudice until you were about 12 years old. Guest well, id had a little experience with it in that one of my little neighbors, who i loved very much, told me one day that she couldnt hold hands and go up the hill or down the hill with me as we went to school, as we had always done, because she found that i was a nigger. So that was one of that was my first shock. But i think i lived also with the realization of my mothers feelings about not being able to get the kind of job that she wanted. Cspan but you when you got into girl scouts and. Guest no, the ywca. Cspan im sorry, the ywca but the whole business that the Swimming Pool and the ywca in rankin versus the ywca in pittsburgh. Guest i had been i was as i said, rankin was kind of a mission center, and some women from the ywca had come out there and organized. And i was i had joined. I was chosen, actually, as one of the three girls to be on a poster emphasizing mind, body and spirit. And we had our little white blouses and blue middies, you know, blue ties and middies on. And so i eagerly gathered up some friends, and we went downtown, too a 45minute streetcar ride to downtown, to chatham street, to the ywca, because we thought, well, since were girl reserves they were called then we just wanted to swim. And when we got there, the person at the desk said, well, im sorry. You cannot swim. Well, i had not heard any such thing before, but i said to my little friends, well, let us ask for the executive. So we went in and she did see us. And then the executive said to us, she said, well, i realize that you are girl reserves and youd like to swim, but we do not cannot you cannot i cannot break the rules of the ywca and have you swim in this pool. And that was my First Experience of protesting against that discrimination. Cspan how long did it take before a black person could swim in a pool in pittsburgh . Guest i dont know. But one of the things that i feel was significant for me was that that pool was that the ywca later changed its policy. But i dont know how long that particular association took, but it proved to be later one of the most significant, in terms of the inclusion of women of all races. Cspan now, in high school, was what kind of a high school was it . Was it mixed . Guest yes. There were very few black students in our high school. As a matter of fact, as i looked back later, i realized that it was a kind of survival of the fittest because while we were few, for three years, the black students graduated first, second and third in the classes. So that and i its an interesting thing because we had such a Good Relationship among students in the schools, and we were and then i was on almost every kind of the debating society, the basketball team, different activities. But that the reality was that only those i think the best students made it. And years later, i went back for a reunion of the students of the school, and they honored the first principal, and they honored me as a graduate. And i realized then, when i saw where we had come from, some 39 states, and people with a lot of backgrounds, what a rich experience i had had growing up in that community with people of with such wide diversity, where in the high school, race was not a factor. Cspan you tell the story about the speech contest and going to harrisburg. Guest yes. I participated in a number of things, and my english teacher encouraged me to enter the impromptu speech contest. Now, thats a kind of activity in which you have to be prepared on a wide range of subjects, and then you draw your number and you make your speech. You dont and my principal and my latin teacher, who was also my coach, drove to harrisburg because i had been the winner in our county and in our area. And when we got there, we went to the hotel, and the principal went in first, and then he sent for the teacher, who had been sitting with me. And she came back and she said, i just dont know what to say, she said, because they didnt know you were a negro. Well, as we were getting to go, and they were going to drive, my mother said to me, as she had a new dress that shed had made for me to make this speech, she said, dorothy, no matter what happens, keep yourself together you just keep yourself together and it was as if i could hear those words as the teacher was talking to me. And i said, thats all right. If you she said, but you have to make your speech, and you have to have some dinner and you have to get dressed. And i said, but if theres a delicatessen, i can get something and make a sandwich and get some milk and graham crackers. And i can take my dress to the place, and i would dress in the ladies room. So thats what we did. And i was very interested that that night, as i drew my number i was no. 17, and there were 17 contestants. It was in the Carnegie Hall of harrisburg, state capital. I drew the number, of course, with no advantage because you only know what youre going to speak the same 10 minutes everybody has the same 10 minutes to prepare. Youre notified that your turn is next 10 minutes beforehand. But i drew the briand peace compact, and as i made my little speech, i pointed out that briand said the league of nations could not produce peace, but the league of nations was an instrument to be used by people, but peace would come in the hearts of men when peace when men really wanted peace, they would have peace. And i used that and i used that moment as an illustration, i said. The message of peace had come some 2,000 years ago, but if you remember, the parents of this child were turned away at the inn, like my parents like my principal and my teacher and i had been turned away. And i won the first prize with the unanimous vote of the judges. And the only black person in the room besides me was the janitor who had helped me find the Drinking Water when i was getting dressed. Cspan now, this is the north. Guest this is the north. This is pennsylvania, the great state of keystone state. Cspan now, at that time, you would have been how old . Guest i was 14. Cspan and that would have been in about. Guest in 1926. Cspan in 26 . Guest no, it was 1927. Cspan in 27. Guest i guess i was 15. Cspan did was were you well aware, at that point, that you couldnt stay in certain hotels, couldnt swim in some Swimming Pools and. Guest no, i this was a First Experience for me. In fact, this would have been almost the first time that i had traveled that distance, and id usually gone with my parents to places where we you know, that were where we lived with people. I had never gone to a hotel. Cspan well, then then the Columbia University story. And what year did you go to columbia, or try to go to columbia . Guest yes. I graduated from Rankin High School in 1929, and i had at that time, i loved the sciences, and i had a brother who recommended to me Barnard College. And i applied. My principal, teachers and all gave me good marks, good letters. Then i went and took the exams, and i was later informed that i had been accepted. But when i went in on the to take the what the placement test, when i went to do that, dean gildersleeve was so reluctant to talk with me, and i got so nervous because my train had been a little late, and i had thought that maybe i that was a factor. But finally, she said, i havent rushed to talk to you because, really, i didnt realize you were a negro. And she said, you know, we have two colored students already. Belle tobias and fiora joseph were the two. And she said, so that we could not take another until the fall because belle tobias will be leaving. Well, that was a very low moment for me. And i today, as i hear people talk about quotas, i react to quotas and i know what a quota can do. And after she said all this, i just was about to give up, but my sister, with whom i was living, after a few days followed my brothers second advice. He said, try nyu. We went to nyu. And as i was talking to dean ruth schafer, a few minutes before the close of registration, she asked me if i had a diploma. And i said no. She said, well, have you applied to nyu . And i said no. And she looked at me as if she was so puzzled as to why would i still be trying to enter if i hadnt applied. And my sister whispered to me, and she said, dorothy, show her your letter from Barnard College accepting you. So i showed her the letter. And ill never forget, she took the letter, she looked at it, and she said, a girl that makes these kind of grades doesnt need an application. And she accepted me. Cspan what kind of grades had you made in high school . Guest i was an a student. Cspan straight a . And then what kind of a student were you in college . Guest straight a. Cspan back to barnard for a moment. Why would you have a quota of only two at the time, you were called negroes of two black people . Why would they have that kind of a quota . Guest i dont know. But you know, at that time, that was i guess that was considered forwardlooking because there were some schools who wouldnt have accepted you at all. But you know, an interesting thing about it is that later on, both barnard and nyu gave me their highest honors. And at Barnard College, they do not give an honorary degree, they give a medal. And they awarded it to me. And you know, one of the reasons its hard really and i say to people you cant get bitter about what happens to you. You have to keep working. And one of the things that certainly said to me that thered been a change and. Cspan so what year did you graduate from nyu . Guest i graduated from nyu well, i went there in 1929 on an elks scholarship that i had won from an elks oratorical contest on the constitution of the United States. And my parents were older parents because i had come late in the lives of both of them. And i was very concerned. So i established myself, and i was able to do my bachelors degree in three years and my masters degree the fourth year with that scholarship. And mind you, that scholarship was great then. It was 1,000 a year. It was a thousanddollar scholarship th