The predator drone. Also books about Vladimir Putins russia, border security, the collection and use of personal data and much more. And for more information on this weekends 48hour television schedule, visit us online at booktv. Org. Art critic Robert Hughes appeared on booknotes in 1997 to talk about his book, american vises. In the book, mr. Hughes analyzed the associations between American Culture and the art its produced. This is about an hour. Cspan Robert Hughes, in the new yorker piece on ama, theres a quote from barbara rose that says in september 1970 bob was wearing love beads, a transparent linen shirt, a yellow wide whale corduroy suit and a black leather coat with nailheads on the back that spelled out this is not a coat, she says. What is that . Guest i was carrying the coat, i was not wearing it, when i came through u. S. Customs. That was when i first came to United States well, when i came to the United States to try out for time. It wasnt my first visit to the United States, but it was the one that caused all the trouble. Cspan why were you coming here for Time Magazine . Guest because theyd asked me to come and try out. They were looking for an art critic, and in some moment of aberration, they got me. It was purely accidental, as all things are. There was a book that id just brought out called heaven and hell in western art. And it sold about three and a half copies in the United States, and very luckily for me one of those copies found itself to the thenmanaging editor of time who said, well, lets try this fellow. And through a rather protracted business, they ran me to work in london, and my marriage was cracking up and all things favored a retreat from england, so i thought id go and see what it was like in the states. Of course, i thought i was going to stay for two years. So anyway, barbara met me at the airport, and there i was with. What she didnt mention was id come from italy, and i had all these bags with an herbal mixture which id gotten in florence. And i was going to give them to friends as presents, and the guy who was going through my bags and saw these plastic bags full of this herbal mixture sitting on top, and his eyes lit up, and he said whats that stuff . I said its potpourri. He said, what . I said, potpourri. Po [laughter] be so i nearly didnt make it into the United States. Cspan 27 years later, this has been in bookstores for a couple of months. What is it . Guest this . Its a book. Its called american visions which my editor subtitled the epic history of art in america. Its a book vastly expanded from a Television Series i did for pbs and for the bbc. And it is basically, i suppose, a kind of opinionated history of american art. Cspan and theres this which is a special of time requests magazine. Guest its not a condensation of the book, that had to be written again from scratch. I wrote the whole issue, something ive never tried before. But its amazing what the prospect of hanging can do. Cspan the Television Series is over, or at least its run on public television. Guest yeah. Cspan and youve, the books been in the bookstores for a couple months, the magazine is out. How do you feel . Guest intentionally relieved and very like going fishing. Its a wringout, you know, a project like this. The whole thing took me four years, and i was more or less on the road promoting it. And the, there was no be rest for the ungodly. And im just glad its over, and im glad it came out well. Cspan theres also a lot of copy thats been written about you. Guest oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Well, not during the whole period. You know, i crashed at the end of the series. I mean, it wasnt a fatal crash, but i woke up one morning, and i thought, yikes, life is devoid of meaning and horrible in all respects. I mean, i dont know whether youve suffered from this, but, yeah, its a medical problem. Suddenly grow horns and a tail. I must say my wife rather felt as though she was dealing with a little creature, an alien sometimes. But, no, no kidding, it was bad. And it was caused by overwork, you know, with all the trials, of course, that go back into childhood. But anyway, i sort of woke up and realized, well, ive got to write this damn book, ive got to write 200 and something thousand words of copy in the next nine months. So i had to put myself more or less on military discipline, you know, get up at 4 00 every morning and have my tea. I was too wired up to have coffee which, you know, was a nuisance, but there it was. And write 121500 words a day. And do four miles a day on the treadmill if possible. And just bang it through. Because if the series comes out and you dont have a book there, obviously, its not the best business practice. No, it was, it was very hard. Cspan whats it feel like when you get depression . Guest it feels terrible. You know, the luckily, if youve just got one thing to concentrate on, you can concentrate on that. If i hadnt had the book the write, i would have been in big trouble. The, you feel as though your life is essentially without meaning, you know, the stuff that youve done is not going to last and that the, how can i put it, it deprives you of pleasure in the company of others. It makes you sort of selfenclosed without being successfully introspective. And its an altogether miserable business. So what i did was i, you know, did what i would never have contemplated it normally, finally at the age of 57 i went to a shrink. But, you see, good catholic boys dont go to shrinks. What they do is they go to confession, and that sort of gets rid of the, of the, you know, the one part of it without actually sorting anything out. So i went to see a shrink, i took drugs, i, you know, and ive got to say it all helped a lot. The shrink was a fellow fisherman, and it was a little difficult to sort out whether we were discussing, you know, fly fishing for striped bass and deeper problems, but we did in the end. Cspan when was this picture taken . Guest about two month ago. Cspan where is it . Guest its in my loft. The bear and spartan missing appearance of the loft is not a matter of set dressing. The book shelves, you see, are empty. Im moving all my books out in order to rebuild the loft. Cspan where is the loft . Guest on the corner of prince and west broadway in soho in new york. Cspan how long have you lived there . Guest since 1970, 71. Yeah, thats right, 1971. I moved to new york in 1970. I stayed in the Chelsea Hotel for a few months and somebody said to me actually, it was barbara, the person that we referred to earlier said to me, you know, if you want cheap, large space, then there are these really cheap, big warehouses down in this unnamed part of new york. A lot of artists were living there, i went and got one. Cspan and when i read about this painting, one of the i guess it may not be new, but it was new to me, you talked about the artist being a closet homosexual. Guest yes. Cspan is that well known . Guest i think its well known. Grant wood. I mean, whether he was a practicing gay, i have absolutely no idea. I mean, he was a man of pictorially very refined tastes, and he had a, i mean, far from being the sturdy son of the midwestern soil, i mean, he was, n. , born in iowa, true, and he lived there a good deal of his life. But the big influences on him were 15th century flemish portrait painting with its very high finish and intense concentration of craft, and it is said his mothers china. And periodically grant wood could be prevailed on, yes, there i am in front of the house in american gothic. Its a fake house which has been built closer to grant woods [inaudible] but sometimes he would be prevailed upon to put on a pair of blue bib overalls and, you know, sort of stand in close proximity to a tree so as to look like a farmer. But that was all part of the promotion. [laughter] of american regionalism in the 30s. Cspan what does can it mean that so many Different Companies have used this grant wood painting for their own advertising . Guest it means that its the american mona lisa. Now, the fame of a painting is a really mysterious thing. Nobody really knows whether mona lisa got famous, although i have some theories. This one became fantastically famous. I think in part through its ambiguity. I mean, first of all, its a very, very memorable image, one which strikes deep into peoples ancestral memory or what they would like it to be. There he is, the stern puritan father holding up the pitchfork be, defending the virtue of his not very alluring daughter. And the it is humorous and at the same time its hard to be sure whether hes, whether wood was praising that kind of midwestern rectitude or not. So People Project on it. That comes from a painting by gilbert stuart, the socalled no, not the [inaudible] stuart got to paint washington three times. This is derived from the unfinished picture, and, of course, its on the american dollar bill. Thats the canonical image of george washington. Cspan what do you think of americans putting this painting on the dollar bill . Guest i think its a good idea. Its not a reproduction of the painting, but it is a version of. There it is, yes, thats washington. And as you can see, its reversed by the engraving, you know, in that one hes facing to his guest you tie the president up indefinitely with painting ops. And so there was a real demand for effigies of washington. Also served by people like the [inaudible] i mean, i think it was rafael no, it wasnt rafael. Oh, my god, im getting confused. Charles wilson peel was the father who founded this dynasty of artists, and one of his sons specialized in portraits of washington just like his dad had. And there are hundreds of them all over the United States. And, but, of course, this is an age before mechanical reproduction, and here we have copley, certainly the greatest american portraitist of the 18th century, and this is, again, its an iconical image of paul revere, you know, the intelligent, skeptical, determined american craftsman citizen. Its one of the archetypal portraits of a skilled american. Cspan you can see there this actual painting was on the cover of David Hackett fishers book of paul revere. Guest thats right. Cspan and they pointed out what hes got his happened around, you can see the reflection of guest you can see the reflection of the window which is behind the artist. And that burning spot on the silver teapot that revere has just finished making is a reflection of the window and, of course, thats the light source for all the light in the picture. Cspan whats so special about this particular artist, Jonathan Singleton copley . Guest a lot of things, but i would say the thing that is most special was, well, he was the first resident american to really make a rather grand style out of what was actually rather liney and plain and, you know, came out of the new england tradition. He couldnt at first attain the sort of grace notes of 8th century 18th century english Portrait Church but with that extremely craftsmanlike approach of his, he produced something which i think was more valuable, sort of completely sober, unflatter, all the moles and warts and whims in place, you know . And, you know, he was the first Great American empire cyst which, i might add, this guy that were looking at now, john trumble, was not. I mean, trumble yearned to be a history painter. The problem with being a history painter in the 1820s was that americans then as now were less interested in their own past than in their a own future. Theres a very interesting letter from, i think, adam mr. Trumble madison to mr. Trumble on this subject saying i see no interest in the public around us in the commemoration of the events of the revolution. If this was when the negotiation was going on for the four pictures which now decorate the rotunda of the capitol here in washington. Already americans, in other words, were complaining about the selective amnesia of their citizenry. Cspan how do you do all this . Guest how do i do it . Cspan yeah. Guest how do you remember all this, how do you guest man, ive been over the ears in it for the last five years. [laughter] you know, i mean, my main problem is going to be clearing the stuff out of my hand in order to get on with the book on goya. Cspan but when we see you in your least exciting moment, what are you doing . How did you compile all of this information and get to be such an expert . Guest ive been an art critic working in america for 27 years. Inevitably, some stuff rubs off. But im extremely curious about america in the way that foreigners are. Im not a citizen. Im a australian, but nevertheless, im whats called an alien resident, you know . One of them. Cspan you going to stay that way . Guest yeah. Cspan why . Guest yeah. My wifes american. They cant take that green card away from me, not now. I havent said anything bad about clinton in this book, you know . [laughter] no, im going to stay that way because beyond a certain age, and im 58, the leopard has difficulty changing his spots. I mean, for instance, im interested in politics, but the only country in which i can be politically active is australia. And it would seem sort of ridiculous to abandon my australian citizenship when my family has been active there for so long. I mean, im not coming from somewhere in order to completely remake myself. You know . Cspan your family, what, you had a brother that was attorney general . Guest my brother tom, yeah, during the vietnam years. He was attorney general at the same time, actually, that mitchell was the attorney general here. He met mitchell. You know, he was given a trip over here to find out more and better ways of dumping on vietnam protesters, and hes horrified by mitchell because tom is a true conservative and not an egregious schemer like mitchell. Anyway [laughter] there was, no, i mean, our lot have been pretty much embroiled in australian politics since the 1900s, the early 1900s. And, you know, theres a Family History there that im proud of and would not wish to renege on. Cspan go back to my original question, how do you do all this in in other words, where do you work . Guest i work at home. I have a house on Shelter Island and a barn. Upstairs in the barn is a writing room, downstairs is my wood shop. When i run out of paragraphs, i go down and absent mindedly cut a few dovetails. I didnt get the [inaudible] once during the whole year. I didnt catch a blue fish. I caught a couple of bass on fly, that was it. But anyway, i have my art library there. Half of the top floor of the barn is books, half is writing room. I get up early in the morning and, you know, i do what you do, i work. And i find it excellent for concentration. Its a little frustrating because, you know, unlike other parts of eastern long island, theres absolutely no social life of any description which is actually quite a good thing. I mean, all those hot shot agents with their big tort linney salads are afraid of the water, and so they dont come across on the ferry. [laughter] and also, you know, if youre at some utterly boring dinner party, you can jump up, or my wife can jump up with a strecken expression on her stricken expression on her face and say its 9 00, the last ferry believes at 9 45, im terribly sorry, samantha, we have to go. Look, the biggest lesson about work i ever had because when i was in my 20s, i thought it was done by inspiration. It was from Allan Moorhead and was my surrogate father as a writer. And he did this thing which i found utterly incomprehensible. It seemed so strange. He would i get up at 6 00 in the morning, and at seven hed be up the hill at back of his place in italy, and he would stay there until 3 1 00. He 11 he wouldnt take telephone calls, he wouldnt do anything like that. And surprise, surprise, at the end of the morning hed usually have 700 words. Cspan some points you have an exceptional memory. Guest i think its beginning to decay a bit under the influence of age and booze. No, i have a very good memory. When i was a boy and was at jesuit school, they would make you memorize huge chunks of stuff. But i had a some people found this onerous. I found it delightful. I mean, i can still im not going to do it, but i can still quote from numerous shakespearean tragedies. I could recite you the wasteland by heart, if you like. But im not going to. [laughter] weve got Better Things to do. Cspan now, this is interestingly enough in the magazine version which this is, the Time Magazine special, the pictures, its a lot bigger. Guest yes, it is. Cspan in the book. Guest yes. Cspan by the way, what is this . Guest that is a painting painted in the 18 t 0s called memories of 1865 by John Frederick peter who was a magic realist who, whose paintings actually were quite popular in america. One of the interesting things about peter is that he has this exceptionally nostalgic kind of coding, you know . Its called memories of 65 because thats the year lincoln was assassinated. And theres this old rusty bowie knife which was one of his studio props picked up on a civil war battlefield, and its hanging over the image of lincoln like the sword over damocles, and the deliberation of the thing is shown by that card which reads something of the house which was a common kind of card used, i think, in table settings at the time, and it originally read head of the house, so the knife is figuratively cutting off the held, and its an illusion to the assassination of the president. Cspan what do you think of art around lincoln . Just lincoln in general. Is there a lot of it guest theres a tremendous amount of photography. Lincoln was the first president whose image was really, really ramified by photography. But thats, of course, theres a popular demand. He was the first president in the age of photography who really was regarded as popular, you know, in an almost demmegod like way at least for northerners. But official paintings of lincoln are, for the most part, pretty dull. You know, as american or any other official portrait tends to be. Its the photographs that we remember him by. Cspan now this is on the cover one we see all the time, the american flag, but its guest by jasper jones. Cspan when was this done . Guest 1955, and what a stir it caused then. Strangely enough cspan whysome. Guest well, because, you know, it caused a big stir in the art world because people couldnt be sure if they were looking at a flag or an image of