Circulating. 10 minutes before we begin to wrap a. My name is [inaudible] washington d. C. Whats missing on discussions is the fact that islamists have nothing to offer except for sharia law and muslims are fed up with the sharia law. The other point is theres a new new generation of arabs that face the people. I wrote an article about this, who are very different than their fathers and grandfathers. Which we should be focusing on. Can make it to a question . Something we should be focusing on. Our democracy by islamist ideology. What shall we do about the threat to democracy the case arabs are going to sort their problems out. This is the first time theyre focusing on their own homegrown problems gloominess and israelis and other people. What should we do about the ideology that is focusing on destruction of democracies . Would anybody like to take out one . It begins by recognizing what it is. A couple of years ago before these Tahrir Square movement, there is a prominent article about my son brother had. The term moderate is a separate term because to us it means someone like ice. But in reality, all it defines as the position in a given political context. There were moderate. Overseer was a moderate not be, that he raised stilling. There shades of brothers and shades of islamists into public good or the brotherhood to the moderate next to less extreme selassie. As far as anyone in this room is concerned, these people are extreme. We need to have some kind of understanding of who these groups are and how an debacle of their values are to our own. So that is. 1. 2 is something bob said in his remarks, which is some that we need to respect who they are. Respect is to understand the gravity of what theyre about. They are not about in its current delivery of social services. They are about virtue. The fundamental political distinction going all the way back to the greeks is the question of are you a virtuebased society of very freedom they society with . Islamic republic in iran, the new government in egypt. All of them organize political life on the basis of what they believe is virtue. It is a Totalitarian Society because it dictates your scope of action in life. It dictates fundamental moral choices about who to marry and whatever, all kinds of stuff. Thats another way in which we need to understand and that also leads to some deeper appreciation of how you go about tackling this. Very briefly, we should distinguish the term liberalism from democracy. Democracy is simply a process. You had an election. He took a bow for their own enslavement and often do. People forget this. They think world for freedom. Im sorry, but theres a constituency that is per submission. This is a site goes fact of life that is not fully appreciated. In the west. So how do you go about it . To distinguish between democracy and liberalism and you try as best you can to promote the spirit of liberalism, even if it is procedurally at the expense of the brotherhood. Your response to that . Im listening to this discussion which i enjoy thoroughly, but my mind as to how we do this. And i would throw home one point that im trying to stress here that i may agree or disagree with some of the things said. The problem in washington is you look at the democracy, freedom and liberal promotion mechanisms we have. Theyre actually not as nimble as they need to be. I look at benghazi and answers questions about the talking points, but the bigger policy deployed when he set up is how do we influence the next faith . Ambassador Chris Stevens who is killed to honor his memory. Redeemer people speaking arabic to understand the types of different Political Forces we could work with and as we actually need to kill. Right now the washington debate isnt about that. Its a little intellectual, narrow in focus, getting the facts straight is important. But were not well poised on egypt and other countries in the region and collectively to have the role in shaping it. Felix must thought from daily paper. Thank you, gentlemen. And they said very much enjoy the cultural debate. I hesitantly stepped into the family feud. If i can make two very quick points. What i thought was missing, especially deadly to your firm broth and brett perhaps is this path leads us down a road that would not be to democracy. But what is the alternative path . Research to try to run a dictatorship and aligning the United States the tyranny of the region and that didnt work. I like to hear more about that. My second point is when we talk about the islamists come over using a very broad brush here because there are many different types of islamists and are certainly hezbollah shares fared better with the muslim brotherhood. Watching how things go in egypt and egypt is mentioned quite a bit because its role in the region and the weight that carries. Somebody who considers themselves a sec other liberal, im not too upset about the way things are going in egypt. Im not too upset about facing millions of angry egyptians in the street. I take note may come to power and all of a sudden a treaty with israel is not their number one priority. But theyre not banning alcohol and nightclubs for the sake of the economy. When we talk about islamists, we have to take note that some islamists are different than others and some will naturally have today more pragmatic affair in a position of power. Ill stop there. Rob, do you want to kick that went off . I have a couple thoughts. This is also connected to another slippery ice pick to the argument. If on the one hand if on the one hand people islamists it will people of faith, everyone on the other side are liberals. I dont believe i ever use that term in anything i say. The opposite of islamists is not islamists. Theres a huge spectrum of people who will run into the streets because they are like the kia network, not at what their life is going to be like under islamists will. They go from radical communists on one hand to western oriented liberals on the other. And indeed, many people of faith, millions of people of faith. Five times a day, praying the psalms as opposed to many people who are the ham and cheese eating muslims. They are all fair. I see the natural audience is. Its everyone has a posted a totalitarian agenda of the muslim brotherhood. And due to your. This is where the friendly debate between my partner and i disagree, but a truly free and Fair Elections where theres a level Playing Field and institutions of government work, not islamists will try it. In answer to brians operational suggestion operational question brian hunt about what you do. Very simple answer. During the cold work on the cold war, say afghanistan repeated price. We bit the bullet. The cold war was a top priority and we arent the islamists to defeat our number one enemy. Yes they were very negative result, but the goal was the end of the cold war and we want and the soviet union is gone. Today i dont mind giving money to communists and leftists and socialists and hoping none because im not worried about the return of the cold war. Im not worried about leftists coming to power. My god, that should be the biggest challenge we face. We should not be indifferent to the outcome in egypt in countries across the middle east. We can both play a role in ensuring a level Playing Field in assisting those who we have an outcome in their success. We can do both. They are not antithetical and that should be what our agenda is in this country. Okay, a few addon comments. I would agree with a lot of what rob said. I basically believe in almost everybodys business and i certainly believe in unleashing the agency, even though it doesnt want to be unleashed to support covertly because i think i dont think anybody will openly take our money, but covertly supporting liberals and the motley crew that rob mentioned. Great, im all for it. There was much cash as you can find that we can get out of washington, give it to them, hope they organize, hope they win. The odds of them winning aporia. Turkey had free elections and theyre lots of liberals, corrupt and all the rest. The subplots of them everywhere. More secularist muslims than any place else in the lawsuit and they lost again in the boston free election. So go ahead and do it. By all means come in the United States should use the bully pulpit, support liberals come to support of faith who are not islamists amongst the muslims. But be prepared you can do that and theyre still going to lose. You have to islamism in power in assisting you have to have the great debates with them in power. Very briefly. Im of two minds about supporting liberals because when you go to places like cairo and a noninmate liberals, they tend to be nauseating. The idea of liberalism is what they read in a gnome chomsky book. [laughter] so theres a real question and i think reuel is right. You could throw a lot of money at buying Laptop Computers for the Young Liberal Society of alexandria and vicious money down the train. Im always struck i remember having meeting with deputy head of the brotherhood six or seven years ago and he turned out he had a decree from the university of missouri and obviously morrissey has a degree from northridge there you go, most of the iranian leadership, most of the early iranian leadership had decreased from american universities. The problem we face is quite uneventful and theres no easy solution, which is that in effect we in the west have been trashing the good name of liberalism and pushing out a bogus garbage liberalism, which has been readily received and divided by students from the middle east coming to american universities and up this stuff and going back and starting a revolution. Africa booty. [inaudible] iranian revolution comes for me to fix these and 70s on western universe these. This is a very fundamental problem, but its worth recognizing that until someone is actually liberalism as we define it is what you find in government and the federalist papers and John Stuart Mill in tocqueville, mostly guys im afraid. Thats what liberalism is. And you can start constructing an idea that can compete with islamism because islamism basically says we stand for justice. Every islamist parties for Justice Development party or just his freedom party. How do you actually how do you offer a competing liberalization in the arab world that can stand up against that . I dont think throw money at it or have some program or some covert action. We need to approach the issue in some sense philosophically. The reality is a spirit that we can do except hopefully protect the interests we currently have in the region. Or we can dig for the next 30 or 40 years about how you create cadres of liberals who may some day when their country. I grew up in mexico very briefly. Mexico is this backward authoritarian authoritarian face abuses or president s, Lopez Portillo and then you could guys like saverio in college around. Where do they come from . They have a phd from the university of chicago. Thats how it happened. It was like 10 guys. I miss 10 people, educate them and maybe some good will come 20 years down the road. You know you mentioned the justice component of a lot of islamist parties. Theres an argument that can be made that this is response to the corruption of these u. S. Sponsored regimes and in the case of gaza, which he mentioned was a very serious component. Any thoughts on how to combat that were placed in the right direction . For the record, i am against corruption. I just wanted to clear that up. Yes, look, it goes back to the point i thought i made in my remarks that islamists didnt win. Im not islamists lost, whether they were the former corrupt regimes or divisions among the nonislamist parties today, they lose. They lose they screwing up the delivery of services. In this by being so corrupt. They lose and islamists are there like theyve been for 80 years, waiting to take advantage of whatever opportunity through violence or nonviolence. We didnt even discuss their relationship with violence and nonviolence, which is a very important issue. And they are there like vultures to reap the benefit of these regimes. We can build then we can help them healthy alternatives built better. Thank you good we have a question in the far corner over there. Yes, Greg Askin Delia at the center for national policy. Thank you for the debate. My point here is theres a suggestion that panelists that once islamists come to power via the ballot box they wont give up our work going to have sort of renewed dictatorship types in the middle east. But the events in egypt over the past few weeks suggests that you have a new politicized class of people who are not going to take that. So i agree with one of the previous questioner said in some respects this is quite healthy that you are going to have these deep debates and divisions within the arab world with the muslim world and people are not going to accept dictatorships like they have in the past. This underrated the panelists could comment on that. Thank you. The point i was trying to stress on my comments on each of them report we put out about managing change in egypt by these multiple centers of power that didnt exist under mubarak. They are out of the opening competing through institutions and other things. This is an early stage of the game. As rob cited, the last president ial election results, theres this desire for centers of power. The task here in washington and its going to be difficult to convince her u. S. Government to change the way its done for 30 years because the Strategic Security imperatives that drive decisionmaking. Some of that is necessary, but how do you actually play the right will engage in here . Not naively giving money to liberal groups and things like this in not having a strategy. I do believe this is a significant test inside egypt. My prediction where rob and i may disagree is that its going to force islamic Political Parties, least honest to change their ideology. If the system remains open, if theres a big debate, i dont see it going backwards in terms of the diversity and as large as it is as hard for me to imagine that going backwards. Okay, we are going to move to her Closing Remarks and go in reverse order. See you can have two minutes here to make your final plea to convince this audience against the motion. At them in 1979, Jeane Kirkpatrick were an influential article of dictatorships and double standards in which he argued but is now a case the paley of neocon position i find myself attracted to. The United States is better served supporting if necessary, not always, but its necessary secular authoritarian regimes against totalitarian alternatives. Totalitarian alternatives then as now often can come to power by means of democratic or populist movements. But just because they come to power that way doesnt mean they govern that way. I think that is a distinction worth keeping alive in our minds today. I thought to imagine now that the political space, these terms the political space has been open for new forms of competition. Ohlone. The french revolution. Jim woolsey set up at the first time. Start with the tennis court. Youre not entering the terrorist stage. Lets pray for thermidor because we are now seeing a process of the process of totalitarianism coming into too many middle eastern middle eastern countries. Its important to recognize that for what it is. Its important to see who these guys are. Its important not to deceive ourselves that they come in all kinds of the rainbow of food shades. They dont. Its black, gray or very, very dark blue. So i would urge people to think about. One last point because the nights on political philosophy. We need to learn about lock in the, but comes out of the debate about this guy called Robert Filner argues for monarchy. Monarchy is looking better and better in the middle east. It is one country that seems to have figured it out so far as morocco and maybe that should be a model for other places as well. Thank you, brett. Ryan. And basic army for the proposition is an argument for reality of the opening your eyes and see where we are today two years into these uprisings in these changes. In a region of the roach is narrowly focused on the middle east, which has about 20 countries, you have seen political change but at least the leadership enforced. In two of those countries the same Islamist Forces come to power through the ballot box. Two other islamist Political Parties as some sort of more marginal role in libya. Were at the start of a process and i think our response from washington has been sort of philosophical intellectual, but not very operational. I think this process is moving forward. You look at the demographic social economic pressures these societies face. Of these countries, political as i make forces will come to power. They will face competition from other nonIslamist Forces. Politics are becoming much more complicated than what worries me the most in washington and capitol hill is we ourselves dont have a functional political discourse about her own issues, the love how do we respond in clear strategic ways to these events of the region. The region is in for a longer period of time and change the Central Eastern europe based. I also think america played an Important Role should play a role in this. Write your voice has been largely muted by her tunnel visions, by someway we can do this in our government and outside of government falsified. The main argument is it is upon us and more is coming. More changes coming. Some of that likud Islamist Forces will need to figure out how to best use their power to shape and influence. Thank you very much. Im to run. Extra bonus points if you can wait that hamon cheese eating islamist line america. A couple of closing points. First, we can collectively maybe ill just say myself, generally with project a certain bigotry of low expect nations on muslims in the Arab Cultural world, which is those of us who are various religious faiths here know the extent to which we practice our faith in how faithful we are to this or that religious prescription. Do we know that we fall pretty darn sure, but we think muslims, theyll pray five times a day. It never touched a scotch. Every commandment that is in islam