Game over, you lose. Look, i understand the political virtue of making that argument. Its always good to convince those who disagree with you to just give up their beliefs. Sometimes those of us on this side of the aisle oblige by doing so. But its not an argument that has any basis in the constitution. Is obamacare currently the loft land . Of course. Its passed into law, some statute books. No one on this side of the aisle is arguing that its not. Were arguing that it shouldnt be. Thats a very different thing than saying its not. And congress has the power of the purse. Congress has the power ill finish this point and then im happy to yield for a question. Congress has the power to appropriate and theres no obligation for congress to appropriate, to fund a law that isnt working. That evidence and experience that what the American People are experiencing has demonstrated it isnt working. And so the house of representatives in voting to deFund Obamacare while funding the rest of government is fulfilling its constitutional function and if this body took up that same gantlet, kept government funded, never shut down government, funded every aspect of government except obamacare because it isnt working and hurting the American People we would be hurting the people. I think the senator from virginia rose for a question. Ill be happy to yield for a question without yielding the floor. Mr. Kaine i ask the senator to yield for a series of questions, first comments you made earlier about helpful reforms that could be made to the Health Care System, and second, your comments about the need for members of this body to live to their live to their constituents. Being in the chair and hearing you, i couldnt resist but follow up on those two items. On the issue of reform, i understood one of your points to be that a helpful reform might be for congress to take up and potentially eliminate the current prohibition of purchasing insurance across state lines. Is that did i hear that correctly . Mr. Cruz yes, that is correct. Im happy to yield for seakd question without yielding the floor. Mr. Kaine in addition i understood and i agreed with a comment you made about potential reforms even the whole notion of health care provided through employers is a little bit of a historical anomaly, that came up in the aftermath of world war ii. I wasnt sure if you were suggesting that as part of the Health Care Reform you would want to alter that norm of employers providing at least some Health Care Provision for their employees. Mr. Cruz i thank you for that question. What i was suggesting is we should do disoarm that tax reform that encourages policies to be personal and portable. Right now federal laws heavily favor employerprovided Health Insurance and that creates some real failures in the market where when someone loses their job they lose their Health Insurance. We would be better serving i believe our constituents if Health Insurance became like Car Insurance that went with you regardless of what job you were in. Mr. Kaine you engaged in a colloquy with the senator from illinois about a provision i wanted to follow up on. Prior to the passage of the Affordable Care act it was lawful and, in fact, common for Insurance Companies to turn down individuals for insurance because of preexisting health conditions. I dont think but i want to make sure about this, i dont think you were arguing we should go back to that day and that we should go back to a status quo where children would be turned down for Health Insurance because of preexisting health care conditions. Mr. Cruz i thank you for that question. Let me point out that preexisting conditions and the individual mandate of obamacare are integrally connected. The way the Health Insurance market works let me take an example that doesnt deal with Health Insurance. Lets talk about Fire Insurance. Fire insurance, i spoke both our homes have Fire Insurance. Imagine if congress were to pass a law that says fire Insurance Companies cannot take into account preexisting conditions such as whether the home has already burned down in a fire. Now, if that were the law, would any rational person would do, you and i would cancel our Fire Insurance policies because our house hasnt burned down and if it did, we could buy a Fire Insurance policy and say please pay for my house. Now, under that rule the whole insurance regime collapses because the basis of insurance is you get people whose homes havent burned down to pay relatively small premiums to create a pool of cap tal that capital, we dont know who, put in money and premiums there will be a pool to pay for whichever unlucky soul faces their home burning down. The Health Insurance market works quite similarly which is the rule is simply anyone regardless of their medical condition, any Insurance Company has to cover them no matter what, the incentive is the same as with Fire Insurance if you and i are healthy, its, frankly, irrational to get Health Insurance if the rule is if i get sick iraq get Health Insurance and they have to cover me. What you end up with is insurance who consists only of people who have sicknesses, who have grave diseases and that bankrupts every insurance plan. If you have a mandate that country take into account whether someone is already sick before giving them insurance, it means the Health Insurance companies dough go out of business and what it leads to is what majority leader reid has argued for, it leads ultimately to single payer government insurance. Mr. Kaine does the Affordable Care act require conditions at the same rate across the board . Mr. Cruz it restricts the terms at which the terms are given. Mr. Kaine you are opposed to the provision in the Affordable Care act that requires Health Insurance companies to write insurance to individuals within those limitations regardless of preexisting conditions . Mr. Cruz i will answer your question but want to finish the explanation. Thats the reason why obamacare includes the individual mandate. To use the fire example again, it would be the equivalent of if youre saying you got to issue a fire policy to anyone regardless of whether their house has already burned down or not, it would be the equivalent of saying everyone who has a house has to buy a policy. Because thats the only way you prevent the Insurance Market from being bankrupted. So the individual mandate, the reason why obamacare says were forcing everyone to buy insurance whether you want to or not, is because of the preexisting condition. Lch, my listen, my view on preexisting conditions is we ought to reform the market to deal with that problem. I dont think obamacare is the right solution. I think obamacare is the wrong solution. I think we ought to defund it now and ultimately ought to repeal it on its entirety. On preexisting conditions ill point out number one if you are have an issue, there have been issues with Insurance Companies acting in bad faith, dropping someone when they get sick. And i think there the legal system should work to prevent that. If youve purchased insurance, paid your premiums, your company should not be dropping you when you become sick and theres a vital role for state insurance regulators to be involved and for our contract and tort system, the legal system, to be involved there. And i think if we move towards changing the federal tax laws to make Health Insurance policies portable, personal, it will go a long, long way to solving the problem of preexisting conditions. Im not maintaining it will solve it in every instance 100 of the time. Its very difficult to come up with a federal rule that will address 100 of the inequitable circumstances you could come up with and if you tried to, the unintended consequences can be staggering. Obamacare was justified in terms of wanting to provide insurance for those without insurance. Listen, id like to see those without insurance get Health Insurance. Id like to see a competitive market where lowcost catastrophic policies were attractive to people and they chose to purchase it. But, you know, one of the best ways for someone to get Health Insurance is for them to get a good job, for them to actually start making money, have some disposable income, start climbing the economic ladder and the unintended consequence of obamacare is its ended its ended up hammering Economic Growth, hammering Small Businesses and so a lot of the people that the law was trying to help have been made worse off. Mr. Kaine senator, if i could, a reform in your view that might encompass a different solution for the preexisting condition or an ending of the ban on interstate purchasing of insurance, if we get through this week and were into next week and obamacare hasnt been defunded and we have funded Government Operations going forward, you could introduce a reform bill proposing to do just those things, couldnt you . Mr. Cruz i thank the senator for that question. I could and i will confess our policy team is working on a number of Health Insurance reform affirmative policies. Now, i will confess and for some reason were kind of going with the home fire analogies so lets stick with it right now. There are some in the course of Health Care Matters argue that the heavy focus of those of us who are opposed to obamacare should be whats the alternative, that that should be the heavy focus and listen, i absolutely think the Health Care System needs reforms to change real problems in it. Im a strong believer in that. But an analogy ive used before is if your home is on fire, you pout the fire first. Before building an addition to the house. Likewise with obamacare, i think obamacare is such a train wreck, such a disaster that the first imperative is to stop the damage from obamacare and then i think we should work and id like it to be in a bipartisan way. You and i have talked many times about how we could work together. We have yet to find a great opportunity to do so but i am hope thankful will change because id like to see us listen to our constituents and work constructively to fix the problems that hardworking americans are struggling with. And so when it comes to introducing affirmative health care legislation, i fully anticipate that our team will do so and were working on proposals now, as you know well our having been here just nine months, it has been not a quiet nine months , mr. Kaine senator, if we get to that point and you introduce affirmative legislation to reform the Health Care System after we get through this debate, that would be legislation that would not be connected to the question, the existential question of whether or not government would continue to operate on october 1, and so it wouldnt be intergralt grally wrapped up with sort of a threat to the economy that would be posed by a potential Government Shutdown, and it could be analyzed just on its own merits. Is this a good reform or a bad reform, without being wrapped around the question of whether we would shut down the government and do we lay off the or put on some kind of furlough the nurses at fort belvoir hospital who are taking care of Wounded Warriors every day. That would be a reform bill where we could really dig into the reform and analyze whats good and whats bad and what should be fixed and maybe what shouldnt be without it being wrapped around the question of a Government Shutdown. Wouldnt you agree with that . Mr. Cruz i thank the senator from virginia and i would certainly agree this body should spend considerable time working and working together on positive, proactive Health Care Reforms. To expand competition, empower patients. And i also agree with Something Else the senator from virginia said which is we should not be threatening a Government Shutdown. I dont want a Government Shutdown, i want the government to continue. I salute the house of representatives for passing a continuing resolution that keeps the government funded. But it also defunds obamacare and in my view, that is responsive to the suffering that so many millions of americans are experiencing, to the loss of jobs, to being forced into parttime work, facing higher Health Insurance premiums, to losing their Health Insurance. Mr. Kaine senator, would you not agree that the best way to avoid a Government Shutdown or threats of a Government Shutdown or talking about the consequences of a Government Shutdown would be to separate out your question of what are the right reforms of the Health Care System, from the funding of Government Operations . Mr. Cruz well, i would certainly agree with the senator from virginia that we should stop Holding Hostages and so an ideal way and i had an earlier exchange with senator enzi from wyoming, who pointed out the entire reason were having this continuing resolution battle is because congress failed in its job to pass appropriations bills. And so, for example, the house of representatives has passed a defense authorization. I think we should take it up and pass it immediately. So that any discussion of Government Shutdowns does not in any way, shape or form doesnt even remotely threaten the salary of our men and women of the military. And im confident you and i agree under no circumstances should anyone who is risking his or her life to defend the rest of us find their compensation, their salary threatened. Now, in my view, existing law allows and even requires the president to fund the military, regardless of what happens on the continuing resolution, regardless if we had a partial temporary shutdown. A senator ask acceptable for discussion is it acceptable for Government Shutdown to threaten the nonmilitary priorities that are important to the American Public . Mr. Cruz i appreciate the question from the senator from virginia and i would note, i dont think we should shut anything down except obamacare. I think we should fund it all. And, indeed, i have indicated a willingness. Now, the senator from virginia knows well that i think weve got a deep spending problem in this country, that congress has abdicated its responsibility, has built a record debt. Its gone from 10 trillion when the president was elected to now nearly 17 trillion, over a 60 increase. And so if you ask me, do i like a continuing resolution that funds everything the federal government is doing without having significant spending cuts . No. No, i would much have real spending cuts, roll up our sleeves and address the outofcontrol spending and debt. But im perfectly willing to vote for a continuing resolution that maintains the status quo on everything except for obamacare because i view the gravity of obamacare, the threat of obamacare to hardworking men and women so grave that, as you know, in politics and life, youve got to pick your battles, and youve got to pick your battles one at a time. So over time, id like for us to work to have real spending cuts. But i dont think the avenue to doing that is that we should shut down the government. And in my view, we shouldnt shut down the government. And the only way a Government Shutdown will happen and it may happen is if majority leader harry reid and president obama decide they want to shut down the government in order to force obamacare on the American People. Mr. Cane so, senator, you mr. Kaine so, senator, will you not vote to continue Government Operations unless obamacare is defunded . Mr. Cruz the senator from virginia is correct that i have stated that i will not vote for a continuing resolution that funds obamacare. And i believe this body shouldnt vote for a continuing resolution that funds obamacare. Why . Because the facts show it isnt working. Thats why the unions, who used to support it, are one after the other coming out against it. Mr. Kaine senator, i want to switch and ask you a question about the make washington listen, the second piece. I gather, if youll let me get back into a little bit of campaigning activity you and i were candidates at the same time in 2012 i gather that you told your constituents that you were opposed to obamacare and that you would vote to repeal or defund it if you were elected to office; is that correct . Mr. Cruz that is most assuredly correct. Mr. Kaine and i believe im correct that you won your election not by a small margin but by a large ma