Transcripts For CSPAN2 Creating 20240705

The session is creating liberation pavilion, the culmination of over three decades of planning great ideas that produced the capstone pavilion to an incredible accomplishment that really took an Incredible Team to bring it about and to kind of lead us through that. You know, weve assembled an amazing panel. You know, of course, we have dr. Nick mueller nick mueller, the president and ceo emeritus of the National World war two museum. Cofounder the museum, along with Stephen Ambrose. And as those who were here for the Previous Panels know, you know, clearly, you know, the tour de force, the great ideas that have driven this place forward, but also will drive it into the future. And then joining us to nicks left, as youre right, erin clancey aaron is our director of Curatorial Services here at the National World war two museum. Shes been a museum team member since 2017, and as such, is responsible for the care and management of the museums incredible artifact. Archival oral histories and digital collections. And i think were, you know, quarter of a million artifacts. Imagine. How do you even care for those, let alone present those select those you know, and preserve those for the future. You know, and this is just the start when we start having archival reading rooms and things going forward. I know nicks going to want to talk about, you know, advanced the Educational Mission and you know, how does archival reading rooms and things like that for the future access really help us . And then as we go down the line, you youve heard mentioned Patrick Gallagher, you know, the incredible force the president of Gallagher Associates exhibit design firm. You know, patrick has overseeing the Gallery Design of multiple exhibits here including arsenal of democracy, road to tokyo, road to berlin. But most recently, the galleries within liberation pavilion. And thats going to be our our focus today. And then at the at the end of the table, theres eliot cohen. Eliot, as you heard, as you know, one of our president show councilors. So incredible body that that brings us incredible insights because sometimes we get caught in the day to day here at the museum and, you know, sometimes this allows to lift up and really have some new new insights with that. Lets a former councilor in the United States department of state from 2017 nine since 2019, hes been one of our president ial counselors. Hes also served as historic consultant for many of the galleries of liberation pavilion and also for the third floor freedom theater experience as well. So as we as we dive into liberation pavilion, let me do a quick survey. Who here has not been in liberation pavilion yet . Okay. So a whole bunch of you. So we could dive in and you could start. We could Start Talking about it. But i want to do just a quick, quick drive through so people that havent seen it get a sense of of whats ahead. And some of you that have well get some insights as we go. So, you know, there it is, the big giant piece. As you come in, you know, those who served really lays out thi personal dimension. You know, 10,000 dog tags on the left to represent the 16. 4 million americans killed in the war. On the right are images of those americans who did not return home. And it really persale a incredible, incredible set of images. I think about 70 of which are from our our collection. So thats on right here. And, you know, so you really sets the stage on the first floor finding hope in a world destroyed, but its a shattered world. And then as we come in into the cost of victory, perhaps my favorite of the artifacts is there in the center. Well talk about that. But were talking about the human cost. And were not starting with the triumph of the war, but with the actual cost of the victory itself. And then well go back in time, set up the the nazi racial laws, the nuremberg laws that set up e foundations for the holocaust. And ene have a ronive section of the hidden annex where the frank family will hide out in amsterdam, and then ultimately their betrayal. Bless you. We move into the holocaust galleries and then from the holocaust galleries, we have a piece on the liberation of the camps. And then finally the liberation theater, the 30 minute segment. You know, these authentic voices we heard, you know, in these oral histories. Its the day of liberation from the perspective of the liberators and those who are liberated. And so incredibly powerful opportunity to hear those authentic voices. From there, the visits would go into faith in wartime. Incredible piece here in the centerpiece is the story of the u. S. Army transport dorchester torpedo, the labrador sea, with four chaplains on board to protest ministers at Catholic Priest and jewish rabbi, they will give up their coats, their life jackets, their gloves, help people into the boats and go down with the ship praying together. So a Memorial Chapel some of us will need that reflects in place. You know, as you go through this content and really think of other place to leave a remembrance. Then is from there people go into a three galleries on the Monuments Men and women. The grand plan for nazi looted art. But what we did to preserve of the fruits of Cultural Heritage and civilization and with another immersive gallery and in group pieces, visitors go upstairs is its the celebration and the initial returning home. Theres some artifacts that you know most of us would collect from the battlefield and bring home with them. But then we get into the serious piece, the the responsibility piece t fight for freedom and home and abroad that come with the postwar world. And well work on reestablishing justice, creating the United Nations, rebuild the former enemies, the truman administration. Then look at economic make and social changes at home. Technology from the war and into the gallery on the fight for freedom at home and abroad, and the relevance of the four freedoms today. And then finally, well let the visitors and the veterans have the last word as they move in. And the third floor experiences are done by the team that produced beyond all boundaries. The head of a group and what was mousetrap has become medically produced. The freedom theater, which is Pretty Amazing opportunity as well. So with that, weveen of of whos been there. I think people will find the emotion an if you havent been in there yet, youll see it in spades. With that, im going to join this panel and were going to continue. It. To start with, is this kind of you know, patrick, youve been youve been involved in the design here, and id be interested in your thoughts on the design for liberation pavilion and, you know, what are some of the tenants that you built into that . And in some ways, how does how does this pavilion similar but also different than the other ones youve worked on here so far. Well, i think it was discussed earlier. I think the principles of the design for this museum had always been not only the foundation of using oral histories, because in our industry, theres nothing, nothing more powerful than personal storytelling and the impact that it has on all visitors, not just young visitors. Weve experienced it in directly in Holocaust Museums, working with holocaust survivors, but then with all the veterans here that emotional connection became so foundation, able to continue that in deliberation. But also the immersive character of the exhibit environments and the architectural environments. I dont think most people in the room would understand and from the perspective of what we do and what bart does, story is everything for us. So you wont see a drawing come out of our Office Sometimes for months or years until we get the story correct. And throughout the discussions today, youve heard about the brilliance of bringing together specialized consultants. Oftentimes, museums spend a lot of time navel gazing and realizing that they think theyre the best storytellers. This institution has always brought in the best and the brightest, and on liberation, eliot was one of those that real handwringing of whats the core of the story. And we could have had 15,000 square feet. It wouldnt have been enough for liberation and. Going back and getting the story right and getting the story right and then start thinking about what do you add . How do you add collections . How do you add the immersive character of the environments to just enhance that level of engagement for someone . Because we know that in a museum today, youre at a much more heightened sense of appreciation and learning and grasping the content. But if youre in a space that feels like the story youre trying to tell, but if we didnt have the story right, wed never get the design right. And liberation was by far the most challenging pavilion on a lot of levels. Not just what would we leave out, but what would we keep in and driving it toward the broader sense of understanding. One of the most complex stories that weve ever dealt with and that was the world after World War Two, both in good ways and in very challenging ways. And thats where folks like eliot would come in and give us clarity. Youre missing the perspective here. You need to get the perspective changed and we designed many spaces there, probably 75, 20 different times just till we knew we had it right. So so how about if you give us, you know, obviously, what is it that we had to get right . What are those themes or the theme that was so powerful for you as you were, you know, kind of helping us through this process and and cajoling or mud wrestling or whatever we want to refer to this as. So just quick, a word of thanks at the beginning to to nick and steve for getting me engaged in this Great Institute and and to pat and aaron and their teams. You know, as im a professor and to see the range of people who have to be engaged, the curators, the archivists, the researchers, the designers, and they did a marvelous job. And i just really want to express my thanks from either a three critical themes, which i think are at the heart of this. First, that the four freedoms would be at the core of the theme because we if were going to, we had to have some sort of message as what is this all about . And i think the four freedoms, freedom from fear, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from want that captures it as well as anything else. And of course, president roosevelt had that out there, even before we were formally engaged in the war. Second theme really has to do with capturing how the war shaped the United States through the cold war to include, if you think about it, all of our president s from truman, all the way to george h. W. Bush, touched by participate in the war. But for me the most i would say the most important part after the four freedoms was that this conclude not simply what they celebration, although there obviously should be celebration of those who served, memorialization of those who sacrificed a recognition of the accomplishments. But the end with a challenge with that theme of the passing of the torch, which well all remember from the Kennedy John F Kennedy inaugural torch is passed to a new generation. His generation of veterans. And that, you know, so much of the audiences audience are young or teenagers and they may not feel a direct personal connection to the war, but its important that they feel challenged. Im just going to make it very personal. This past year, ive been in ukraine where there is a european liberal democracy that is under attack by what is, in the technical sense, a fascist regime that is seeking to wipe it off the face of the map. Ive been in taiwan, which is another liberal democracy, is facing pressure from an asian dictatorship. And very shortly im going to be going to israel, where youve had the largest massacre of since the holocaust. You know, the World War Two generation didnt. Extraordinary thing for their time in the period immediately succeeding. But i think very very important to give the message to succeeding generations that you, too will face your challenges and they may be they may require you to step forward and serve in one way or another. And i think to my mind, at least, the liberation pavilion accomplished all those things. So, so kind of related that, you know, patrick, you said you know, you went through 17 to 23 million designs, you know. Elliot, you had kept pushing here. I had to keep these themes. Nick i know previously to describe the liberation pavilion we have now had as kind of shifted over time that earlier it had more of an American Perspective of but almost had to bring in much more similar of an International Perspective the delegates describe being you know to bring in the International Order International Norms you know, an americas responsibility and role in those things to a greater extent. Maybe you could comment on that. If i got that right. Yes, you did get it right. And and Patrick Gallagher remember that when we got to the end of our master planning process in 2003, after designing seven pavilions and what was going to go in each of them, we had the liberation pavilion was the end of that. We were pretty exhausted and and but i felt like, well, as the american experience. So were going to talk about the legacies of the war in terms of technology and medicine and and civil rights and womens rights and and, you know, impact on our on our military and our defense. And it was all that all that made sense. And a little bit about mentioning the Marshall Plan and what we were doing abroad. But it was very american centric. And i felt increasingly uncomfortable with that over the years. And after katrina, actually. And we had time, as stephen said, to think about some of the long term things. And and so i started to thinking we came out of the world a changed nation. The war changed our whole society changed our nation. And we were instead of being 17th in the world as Stephen Ambrose always said, in terms of our military strength, we were now a superpower. Our we were the leader of the world and certainly the leader of the free world. And the visions for helping to extend democracy and freedom and human rights flowed into the institutions, like you mentioned, the United Nations and then the Marshall Plan and naito and all of these we had broken out of isolation. And it seemed like to me we had broken out of it for good. And like it or not, historically, what happened to is as we reached out, we american to as much of the world as well as giving democracy and cocacola was everywhere. And American Industries were everywhere. And that brought all of these different cultures and countries and us. We helped to end the decolonize and in turn, many countries became independent, many of them went behind the iron curtain. There was a cold war, but in any event, it was that global perspective that began to think about and spent time with our president ial counselors talking about that Board Members were a little uneasy, shifting away from the american focus and so it took two or three or four years. I mean, at one point when paul hilliard, our trustee, received as a Horatio Alger award, some of us were up there. Phil safra, who was the chairman, was up there and and i said, lets go talk to sarah bloomfield, whos the president of the Holocaust Museum, and see how they keep their story relevant beyond the war. And so we spent a couple of hours with her that day. And with sarah ogilvy, whos on our president ial counselors. And they said weve been most successful in extending the relevance and the legacies of the war. If we connect to something in the war or in the experience that were that are core exhibits are about, and that led to boise, bollinger heading a task force with john georges. I mean, these are Board Members and john kerner and then a special task force of the board. But boise came down and said, finally, after two or 3 hours with patrick was there. Phil had emma was there. I said, the board has to come down on has to give us, give me the direction of a of a theme that we can build this around. And boy, after 2 hours, boise and and john georgia said its freedom. Lets lets build it around freedom and the extension of freedom at home and abroad and and so thats that that took about ten years of rethinking and a lot of hard work staff was we talked about it when was the president ial counselors and but i think thats that process was a very Creative Process for everybody involved and i know Patrick Gallagher and we talked about freedom, liberation. We talked about what other museums were doing on those themes. And i looked at european museums, too, that look at the end of World War Two, very differently from the way we do. We didnt mean freedom for poland in 1945, so any that it was a it was a very difficult, challenging and an otherwise rewarding process. So, so, you know, based on that, you know, i know everybody up here probably has a favorite art effect, personal story gallery a, you know, some of that. And i think i think it would be helpful for our audience. You know, give give us your sense of what your your favorite is. Ive got my own bush is not a favorite. Its like five favorites. But thats okay the but but maybe aaron how about we start with you is there something in particular that that you find most memorable, most passionate or really wanted to ensure that stayed and didnt make it on the cutting floor . But but really, you know, percieved veered forward to this to this final incredible product or a sure thing. So first of all, i want to say that asking a curator what her favorite artifact is, is is like asking her who her favorite child is. Its very difficult. Its very difficult to pick just one. And like you, i have a a list. I jotted down, i think a dozen things. But but i will say that i think there are certain things in the liberation pavilion that we we we had known from the start where our must haves though the things that absolutely had to be in in those galleries and you know we selected that and i say we im referring to our team, a Wonderful Team of curators, of collection managers, of oral historians who talked about, you know, the content of these exhibits. But, you know, we established some of the some of the must haves. And i think that the artifact with the most gravity, both literally and figuratively, in the space, is the coffin transport crate. It is in the cost of victory gallery. It is, you know, impossible to to this. And it was, you know, the crate that was used to transport the body of of a Service Member who was killed in action from the place where he was temporarily buried to his family. It has the the aluminum plate that was looks like a dog tag, but affixed to the coffin crate and and you know has his name, you know, stenciled on it. So its a very personal item. Its its a very intimate thing, i think extremely memorable and a very intense thing. So thats that was one of the things that was always on the list. And there are many other things i could i could go on for a long time, but ill let others know. I was taking it if i had to pick one. You know that that privates transit case, you know, to bring him back to his family in the rain. Ohio. And i think it speaks volumes about its individual, but also shows the extent to which, you know, weve gone to to either bring people home or value their service. And then it also, you know, we still have 72,000 americans missing in action from World War Two. It also gives us a sense of those numbers as well. I mean, the the gravity of this just from that one piece there, i think i think is incredibly powerful. So i had to cut in. So lets skip nic real quick. Were going to go to patrick because what is it in your design that youre most passionate about . You know, and you, you know, tenaciously fought to preserve or keep or or youre most proud of . Well, aarons right. The the difficult challenge of creating any exhibition. We have tools you use to engage in artifacts are part of that. And making those hard decisions, which one comes on, comes out. I dont have a single favorite, though. I will say in this pavilion, the great is the not only jarring emotionally, but just incredibly powerful. And it draws you near and into a certain degree, keeps you away from it. But the its a im really drawn by the very small things, the diaries, the letters, the photographs that are worn to almost tissue that you know, that someone went to all the trouble to keep that and preserve it. It meant so much to them and you see those in the cases and you see someones life right there and it without having to read a label, without having to understand the context, you know, that that was so special to them that they protected it through the war and carried it with them, saved it in an attic somewhere and could never give it up. And we now have the both important responsibility and honor to keep that passion and their story alive. So for me, its those very, very small what could be insignificant to most people . No, absolutely. And eliot, and how much, you know, you were able to go through yesterday. Yeah. I mean, that coffin transport crate, obviously. All the smaller artifacts. But ill ill actually the thing that in some ways moved me even more than that is the way in which that your team designed it so that there are a lot of individual faces that you see close up of liberators, of victims, of average soldiers. I forget who was who said one, you know, one persons death is a tragedy. A thousand is a statistic. But were here. Were talking about 65 million. So how do you bring things home . And i think by by seeing peoples faces, you know, and a big screen. And it it forces continual reflection all the way through the nick. What do you think . Well, artifact or gallery, fan gallery or. Well, for me, its the liberation theater, i think youre probably not surprised by that. And thats the oldest and first idea i had when we were doing the master planning and 2001 Stephen Ambrose was still alive and out at Universal Studios for spielberg doing recordings of veterans for in preparation for the hbo series on the pacific. And i wandered off to the back of the Universal Studios because i heard the show a foundation was there that had collected oral histories, 55,000 of them, and most of them were collected and and organized and all volunteers and a bunch of trailers in the back and and so while steve was doing that, after i listen to a few, i went back there and i asked him, i said, do you all . Because i had seen the scrolling videos of very powerful ones in the Holocaust Museum on the up on a third or fourth floor, i guess it is. And it was just riveting to see people just watching the stories of the holocaust. I mean, but were not a Holocaust Museum, but our our connection to it was deliberate action of the camps and a moment the gates of those camps are open. And what they felt about freedom of freedom was going to ultimately that part was even before we had a theme for the whole liberation pavilion. It was about liberation already because we had named it that. I said, do you have the names of the survivors or the videos or the anything . At that moment i said, i dont have time to listen to our 2 hours of an oral history here, but if you have it. Oh, sure, we have it just at that moment that what you want when the camp gates were open, i said, yeah, you want the liberator or the liberated . You got both . They said, yeah. And they sat down and 15 minutes later i was looking in a tv screen and i saw 220, 30 stories, two or 3 minutes each, and i just stuck my socks off. And then they had some from the american guys who were open those gates and what their feelings were when they encountered the camps. And its powerful. And i said, thats going to be in the liberation theater. And that theater has come to life. And aaron and her team and Shaw Foundation continued to provide more that weve reviewed. I dont know how many times weve looked at those and edited and edited, edited to get just get them. Just perfect as well as the the liberators and and i just was in there. You the day and just people are just transfixed by it and its very, very powerful. And i think thats my favorite and the longest gestation period, i should say, in terms of the Creative Process, you know, its incredibly powerful for those who havent been in there. Its a 30 minute long no narration. Its just the authentic voices of the liberators and the liberated and i think we need a kleenex station as you go out. You know, it certainly the the the the chapel will be a powerful place after that as well. So lets transition a little bit. You know, im going to ask you guys, you know, what is what is World War Two mean to you today . And you know, some are reflections on either the legacies or the lessons from this. One thing that strikes me, you know, theres the old saying that the war war to veterans, you know, came home and didnt talk about their experience. And i think thats true. Occasionally it gets unlocked. Or did they also didnt talk about the cost of their achievement and what their achievement meant and what they built after the war. And i think this liberation pavilion gives voice to that in a way that i think our veterans would absolutely understand and appreciate the creation or the elimination of tyranny, the freedom of the press, peoples the rise of an american superpower, economic, political, social, the changes, and then also the creation under American Leadership of International Institutions and norms, valuing democracy, freedom and human rights. And i think that in my mind is is the legacy of what weve done. And the and the, you know, captures what is World War Two mean to me in a small sense. So id be interested in what you think you know. How does this shape the discussion about what is World War Two mean . You know, thats the the third part of our mission, the part that, you know, i think was in many ways the most difficult because its always the conversation that keeps going. So no cover. We start with you will go down the line and you know we await your wisdom. Well, i spoke a lot to that in the last two days. So take too much of their time here. But so i think everybody has heard, you know, my feelings about about liberation and those themes that boise picked out for us, the freedom and and democracy and human rights is a running through the themes and and going to veterans who so many of them in our oral histories talk about that a you know during the war is why you fight. I had a lot of veterans say well, first just fighting japanese or were fighting germans. But as they got closer to the end, they began to realize and you hear that on their tapes, and there are many of them say, you know, we were fighting for freedom and and this is the enemy. This is just horrible. These kinds of fascist tyrannies. And so they began to think about those things and and and, of course, in their later years, they reflect perhaps a little bit more. And and infuse different meanings into their intentions. I mean, they were as one said, he went from being a citizen to a soldier and then from a soldier to be a killer. So theres always that element of the military. And during combat, youre youre trying to survive. So so theres pathos there and theres the guilt they come home with. And and we have to deal with that to and p. O. W. S and others who who had those kinds of experiences. But as i said, theres always been a moral tone to how america felt during the war about why we were fighting that was driven primarily by roosevelt, but there was a war Training Officer was a what you might call propaganda. But why we fight movies that were used to teach the troops. The movie tone news that you were seeing in theaters, the four freedoms were in many houses along with the rockwell photos. This country was was united i. And i never met a veteran that our homefront person who didnt remember the unity that that this country felt during the war. And so we wanted to to bring that out and ultimately to leave people with the question as to what will you do with the freedom that has been earned for you by others and through sacrifice for those who survived and came back with trauma and for those that were left behind in the war orphans that stephen has spent so much time bringing them into the fold of this museum and understand the hole in their lives by having lost a Family Member or father. And so there a theres a trauma, but theres a moral tone to to the war that the values and the ideals that we fought for and we tried to put in place not perfectly for sure. Everywhere but those those values drove the postwar world. And for the last eight years, up till now, well, the future takes care of itself. People change, societies change. But for now, that thats our story. Next thing, aaron, legacies lessons from your perspective. Sure. I think there are so many ways you could answer this question. And, you know, i. I will choose to focus my response on something, you know, maybe different from the very lofty concepts of, you know, liberty and morality and our responsibilities as citizens and all of that. And and maybe more specifically about, you know, the things that people take for granted that the, you know, subtle its so subtle and so ingrained in our way of life that we barely think about it. But one of the challenges to to populating the liberation pavilion with artifacts was that it goes beyond the World War Two era and into the into the modern day, the modern era and we have to think about, you know, what are the legacies of World War Two in a very literal physical way. So we have materials that are that represent, you know, the later civil rights movement, the womens equality movement. We have materials that reflect innovations in technology. We have, you know, things made of plastic. I think, you know, if we think about those things we use everyday a plastic water bottle, right . A computer, a cell phone. What what links those things have to the events of World War Two . I think wed have a much better appreciation of our of our, you know, of World War Two and our modern, modern, you know, ways of life. So for me, its, you know, a visitor going through and thinking about World War Two. And its the way that we can connect that history to their everyday lives in a very real and way. Well, absolutely. I think anybody that goes to their this series of of oh, i didnt realize thats from World War Two where they mean it postwar. I mean, it just says you go through. And so no matter what perspective they bring, you know, whether it is plastic or the United Nations, i mean, you know, the challenges are tremendous there. Patrick, how about how about from your perspective . Well, i i would say a of things and ill take a little walk around the block because a one of my first moments here with nic and standing in the dday pavilion and at that time, most of the visitors were old older couples, a lot of veterans and nick looked at me and he said, your job is in the future to have this lobby full of 12 year old kids because thats our next audience. Thats our next generation. And the struggles for really thinking about what an institution like this means into the future. How do you take the story of World War Two and keep it relevant and timely and part of the national and International Narrative was part of what made developing liberation so challenging. It would have been easy to say, lets stop at the end of the war. Were done. The boys are home. Its all over. This was such an important heavy lift because of the relevance of whats going on right now. And if you we deal with young people in museums all around the world and one of the first questions you get when youre working in concepts related to the military and conflicts, young people who dont believe much of anything they see on the news, they always ask why are we there . First . Why are we sending all this money overseas . Why are we always in the conflict and somehow in the historical narrative of the end of World War Two and to where we are today, that message is lost for them. They dont understand it. And so the timeliness of this pavilion couldnt be more because the sense of what they were going to learn about what freedom means and how it is, but also foundationally being able to use this liberation privilege and in the very important educational work that steven and nick have made a commitment to do for not only for what they do today, but whats going to happen in the future. That liberation pavilion will keep this message of World War Two completely timeless. And you cant take a young person in there and not find an immediate relevance to whats going on in on their handheld, on their television, around world and get them to ask why, why, why, what does it mean to me . And so the important task of getting us there, we may have made some mistakes along the way. Well always admit to mistakes, but weve done something that will keep World War Two in the dialog of the future and not just as a historical narrative, but for what we stand for as americans and what we need. Teach the next generations to come along. And i think that thats what makes this such an important pavilion and such an important museum. Yeah, i think that that notion of relevance is incredible. You know, that we were to might be the largest war in world history, but a lot of young people dont see why that matters. And whether its the impact on life today or what we take for granted all the way up to the relevance and how to understand contemporary events, what your thoughts. So this i think it aligns with what pat said, but it also goes back to something don said in a Previous Panel about history being contingent and the way i think about this is, well, suppose the japanese had not been stupid enough to attack pearl harbor. Suppose was Winston Churchill had had heart attack or had been thrown out of office lately. Plausible . You know, and i its very important. Lets remember the America First movement, which wanted resolutely to us out of all that, some of the best and brightest in the United States, including of course, many who then subsequently served and i think it it bears reflection that, you know, it didnt have to happen this way. It could have happened very differently. And what would the world be like if we had not fought that war or if it had come to us later and in a very different way . What world would we live in . What United States would we live in . And i think you know that, too, is part of the part of the mission of the museum. Make people realize this was not inevitable, that it turned out the way it did with all the flaws and of course, all the sacrifices and suffering it could have turned out differently and much, much worse. No, i think it has done and mentioned earlier, you know, this this how do we overcome the hindsight and have people recognize that these are pretty dark days in 1942 and 43 and even we look at the the degree of American Economic and personnel. I mean, it i think its staggering for most of our visitors. They cant comprehend that degree of mobilization today or the the the degree of of everything in their neck. I know you wanted to add a point maybe you know a holdover from one of the questions on the yes piece. And then we can go into some questions from the audience. Yes, my violin came up and at the end of the last session as why dont we talk about the our Operational Excellence here and our entrepreneurial dna and and don miller said it in a different way to said everything here connects. And one reason they connect is it is on the operational and the execution side that is driven foundationally by the fact that we are have to be a selfsufficient art institution. We dont have government operating and and so and then marc pachter was talking about some of my strengths of knowing what i didnt know and going out, whether its historians or Museum People or people in technology to try to or buildings or whatever and and i guess that is that is true and desperate survival. You go for whoever is an expert at something you dont know anything about. But but i would say that one of the things that i did bring to this museum that helped to change it from your normal museum that opens the doors and counts on visitors and Government Support to operate. Because for 20 years i had been in my career in Higher Education after ten years of teaching was to be a dean and vice chancellor and and hired continuing education and extension and i have one of my colleagues here, dan shannon and deb, who was a president before me of the National University continuing education association, which is the most entrepreneurial aspect, Higher Education and where everybody whos in a leading positions of administration and universities were for universities and as a professional development organization, it you learn from each other about how generate revenues for your universities through conferences, international programs, lectures, program aims and products even. And and oversees educational programs. And so it kind of moved into my own consciousness. Is that what this museum is going to have to do . And so building that even the design of buildings, patrick and bart know that the louisiana pavilion has to be open enough to have programs and groups and conferences that we can generate revenue. Same thing with the boeing center. Everything in the boeing center has to be a Rolling Stock so we can move it out and we can have like the last few nights where we had five, 700 people. And you can raise money through sponsorships and programs. You can attract troops. I mean, people, groups and and rentals and you can do webinars and our institute is doing this online degree, the masters degree, with Arizona State university. And stephen and mike preside over that with the Institute Members and the media center, too, which helps to produce. So we now have one of the Fastest Growing masters degree programs offered by Arizona State university jointly with this museum. And that leads to so many connections. But they also get down to the opera journal. Bottom line, we have to generate revenues beyond just visitation and stephens direct marketing program, which generates a huge amount of our income to this institution. And i think and the magic thing is not just about the money, it is about the money, the end of the day, but theres so many Creative Things and programs and ideas that come from the partners and sponsors and the visitors who come and our conferences are sold out every year. What history conference do you know that people pay 1,000 to general public to hear great historians and Museum People talk on provoke kind of ideas. I mean historians even pay that much to go to their own conferences. So it at any event i think and Stephen Watson reason he is my success or at least the board made the decision. But i said if theres a you dont have i had to find people didnt know what i didnt know he headed i didnt know that business. Hes a numbers guy and he understood that direct marketing and and the energy that comes from excitement that comes from your own institution and the board understood ends too is is one of the things that helps to reinvent this museum in a way that has made it the Great Institution that it is. Its its a good old american way, you know. So its a Nonprofit Institution that runs off of what we call earned income, which is profits. So when i get when i get asked around the world, show me the best example of a museum thats run like a business and i always send them here. Im sure steven gets tired of my sending every new museum down, said, go learn, go. Pay attention to someplace that did it right. This in the museum world, this this museum is the museum swiss army knife. And it is it is everything that it could possibly be. And it right wed be designing pavilions. Hed say, okay, well thats 8 to 5. Well, what about after five and what about on the other weekends and what are we going to do there . So they are by every stretch, id imagine, asian, the top of the pyramid when it comes to what a museum model should really look like. But its a really, really big swiss army knife. Its a big swiss army knife. So lets lets see if we have a time for question two from the audience. I know the chance. You know, i had a couple to close with, but i think we to make sure we get, you know, the veterans in the visitors a voice and this will start to your right panel. I think this is an wonderful place. Im from new york city. And last year, the museum let us use some wonderful pictures in times square for veterans day. And i had 20 World War Two vets in times square and one of them, 101 years old, said to me, this is the best day of my life. And the bubble over my head is your 100 years old. Maybe the day that the war ended and you came home and you got married, had kids. But i didnt say that. And i said, well, can you tell me . And he said, i thought everyone forgot about us. Okay, so thats always remember its about them and the few that are still left. Lets remember to always honor them in the best way possible. Well stay to your right. Thank you. I think one of the things you should be most proud of is you consider your accomplishments. Is there something that happens every every day of the week that were open . Visitors walk into the freedom pavilion, they look up and they go, wow. And then they say, how did they get all that stuff in here . And i lie and tell them its like disney, its magic and yeah, and we cant tell you, but you should be very, very proud of that. Its an amazing accomplish. Well go to governor wilson. Gentlemen and lady, i think that all of you can take just pride in what we have accomplished. But i do have a question and the question. It goes back to nicks point that he wanted to see the audience and the people waiting to get in to be a huge number of 12 year olds and right here is, however, the question is in a number of states is there are very different education systems. And the question that we have left unanswered. Is so we won that war and my god, it was wonderful. It was terrific. But as it points out, it was at great cost. The question that i have is in those jurisdictions where there is no teaching of or how you avoid it in the future. That question is not answered. We have left that one unanswered and i that for all of the extraordinary efforts that have been made, if someone is coming through and theyre not very many left, weve lost, what would williams and weve lost a whole lot more and were going to lose all shortly and question is. How do we avoid this ever happening again. And its not answered. And it isnt answered in this sense right now . At this point. Not only is taiwan threatened, not only is the ukraine threatened, but clearly israel is threatened. And in all three of those instances will not not yet. Taiwan. But there are people in the world who are not believers in freedom or democracy. Right. And the ukrainians have been devastated and their fighting back and god love them for doing so against putin. And in the case of israel, oh, my god, what is happening there where the announced dedication of those who are in the tunnels of, gaza there is a stated determination to destroy israel israel and it hasnt yet happened on taiwan. But they have announced it very clearly in beijing that its going to happen. And we do not supply a preventive for any of those things occurring. And instead we from time to time really let things slip. We had a sequester and the military people understand what the hell happened and it was a tragic mistake. I think, because what we what we want is to prevent this ever happening again. And how do we do that . We as a democracy are. We will stay democracy, but we may not keep the rest of the world away from it. And somehow weve got to make it clear to people who are 12 years old. Somebody is going to have to teach. And ive got to tell you, california, which once had the best Public School system in the nation, no longer does. Its a its a disaster here. And that changes from state to state. But i think we need to answer that question. Well, governor maybe ill take your first crack at the answer, but i would say that i would beg to differ with you a little bit, because i do think there are three or four places in the museum where we address that from a historical point of view of how we got into the war and and how we were totally unprepared for the war. The isolationists who held sway in the late thirties, almost up to the beginning of the war as Stephen Ambrose. And we quote the several times that we were ranked 17th in the world in our military preparedness before the war, if it had not been for roosevelt, a year before to introduce the first draft and the second time it passed only by one vote, you know, there was a sentiment as you well know, youre really a great historian in your own right. But there was a great sense of we dont want to be involved in those asia pacific wars or the european wars. We wanted to be insular. We want to we didnt want to fool with any of that. We thought our oceans would protect. And we make that point in a road to war very, very strongly. Its also in the preshow of beyond all boundaries, and its also in the head of my show a little bit on the third, third floor about what was happening in the thirties as the rise of authoritarians in nazi germany and in italy. And what was going on in japan and that and that much of the world thought of democracy is as passive, not force for the future. And that communism and fascism. The authorities and ideologies were strong. So we we do address that. Admittedly, we dont an entire floor to talk about the thirties. We have about 3000 square feet in road to war where were thats a and we do have conferences to that where we delve into the origins of the war. But what we dont do and perhaps we dont in the liberation pavilion, perhaps what should have done you would probably say, is where we have slipped or where we have not done. We have tracked maybe the weaknesses in our defense as a defense. Spending went down after the fall of the berlin wall and we began to close bases and ratchet down defenses. But but theres still a strong isolationist movement in this country, as you know. Right now, and dont want to fund the ukraine. And and so its were not in a position of telling people what they should believe. We as a history museum, we always feel like we should focus on what happened. And i think theres a strong consensus that we could have lost this whole war had we not started to mobilize in end of of 1940 and early 41 in lendlease and so forth. So theres a story there. Theres a history of how we could have lost this war because of our own preparedness. And and i think that gets into two or three places. And it certainly discussed quite a bit within our planning team. And and governor, you always remind us that we need to Pay Attention to it and not know that mike knows that. I mentioned that several times with the quotes from reagan and others and eisenhower and in the in liberation pavilion. But theres always room to improve. So that might have some. Well, im going to im just too so so we can kind of bring this let me let me pull it together. I know, governor, i think the point youre making is theres unfinished work. Theres plenty still to do. And and some is we have to engage our audience both in in person, but also online. This large 12 year olds, its 20 year olds, three year olds, four year olds. Its its the American Public and others around the world. We have to continue to kind of question is why is this relevant . Why does it matter . How do we give them a framework or a lens to judge Current Events to understand their responsibility, why the rest of the world does matter . You know, this is kind of roosevelts view. You know, if only americas there and you have no one to trade with and theres no democratic partners around the world, what will our democracy look like . So, you know, are this is this infused into our our articles, our International Conferences, our teaching, our public programs, civic engagement, leadership . It has to be because it has to keep relevant and also adapt as the world changes. There will be, you know, new challenges with that. So i think thats really the key. And and it its not just the the teenagers. Its the teenagers teachers. And you know, the institutions. And so this is an a tremendous piece, you know, nothing like having a mission as a reason to kind of continue to work for this. So i think we have to turn this into as is the next passion as to why were why were serious about this is theres a lot to do. You know, one of the last questions i was going to ask, you know, this panel was how did we do . And im just going to flip that to the audience. You know, go see liberation. And you kind of can kind judge us. How did we do and figure that out . And, you know, like, like anything, you know, theres compromises and choices and making sausage. But, you know, i think in in many ways, you know, thanks to the team work on this, i think youll find you know, theres incredible experience and itll also forces the think and i think well ask questions similar to those of governor wilson just asked. I want to thank for coming today and being part of this experience, not just today, but this entire weeks of experience, but this is the culmination of, you know, decades of incredibly work, but also very passionate work. Quick alert to some upcoming opportunities if youre if you think this is fun. Tune in december 7th, the ninth for our 2023 International Conference on World War Two. You know, don mentioned that in the early stages. And what thats done, you know, you still register and enjoy that online, you know, feature, you know, some of the worlds leading scholars, some of the best known historians for days of kind of a deep dive into World War Two history on march 1st. Were hosting a free all day symposium which coincides with our special exhibition, our war to women in the service. And we got some fliers outside the registration table, have some information on our website. You know, that that new exhibit will open just over a week. I guess just over a week now, week from now. Be pretty incredible. You know, im im kind of a fan of women in service, having married to a woman in the service and have a daughter in the service now. A little passionate about that. That piece, too. So i think youre going to find a credible, credible piece unless, you know, come join our block party as its continuing on one of the final events today to celebrate, you know, the congressional medal of Honor Society reunion and the campus completion, the road to victory celebration. And, you know, most of all, i just want to say thank you again for your support, for your encouragement, for the great ideas. And, you know, were going to do our best to try to meet all those. So and mark has a great day, mike. Its patrick. Can i go rogue . Can i go rogue . Yeah, you just did. Go ahead. I think what i would hope everyone can join me in is a little applause for my good friend nick mueller. For a job. Well done. About more than a little. I didnt do this alone there, so. But stephen, she shares a lot of that