Abraham lincoln, is bracketed by arguably the least successful american president s. This Holiday Weekend on cspan. Next, interior secretary ryan zinke discusses the rules of war in the modern world at an event that compared how the war was for portrayed in shakespeares work and how its executed today. Hosted by the Shakespeare Theater Company here in washington, this is 90 minutes. Good evening. My name is karen spence, director of the Shakespeare Theater Company. Thank you for joining us. [applause] thank you so much for joining us for tonights Bard Association shakespeare discussion. Tonights discussion is shakespeare and the rules of war, from athens to aleppo. I want to remind everyone to silence all your Electronic Devices and to let you know that video and photography of this discussion is prohibited but at this point it is an honor to introduce tonights moderator, stephen m ryan. He is a member of our board of trustees as well as the association and has chaired our annual fundraiser for many years. He is the head of Government Strategy practice groups at mcdermott will and emery and previously served as the general counsel to the Us Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs alongside the honorable john glenn. In his position he has served as Deputy Council of the president s mission on organized crime directing investigations against lycos on the truck and other criminals during the reagan administration. As part of his pro bono work he has represented operation hope, a Financial Literacy group for the past decade so it is my honor to welcome stephen ryan. [applause] thank you very much. Its really a pleasure and an honor tonight to bring this group of speakers to you. And youre going to have a great evening tonight and its part of our classical theater that we tried to unite Current Events like thinking about the rules of war with the ideas that shakespeare expressed in this play so thank you again for everybody for being part of our group. Tonight, the first panelist id like to introduce is my favorite author, bernard cornwall. [applause] what you say about the guy whos written 60 books, has sold 30 billion copies and is your favorite author . You tell people that if you havent read about richard start and the napoleonic wars, and you havent seen his play by sean being you havent done a year yet. Bernard began in the tv business. At the bbc. And is his book then turned into some of the most notable productions. He was denied a green card and grant 30 to the United States. But since then he has spent a good deal of time with us and one of the most successful and loved authors. The stories are really primarily about english history and his current series, the last king was just a delight and in our family we fight over the book and who gets to read it first. And you will hopefully have seen that on the bbc television. The importantly, to our work here at the theater, Mister Cornwall is continuing to write and is currently writing a book about the first production of shakespeares midsummer nights dream and im sure we will work that in tonight notwithstanding that is not about war. So all right, thank you for being here. [applause] our next guest is doctor Dale Meyerrose who we should call general meyerrose because he was a general for decades the before he became theatrical. [applause] so general meyerrose, he was the president s first Senate Confirmed associate director of national intelligence. The intelligence communitys chief Information Officer and information sharing executive for the director of national intelligence. Thats actually what his title is. And hes the sports group, he has a leaders uniform to become part of the white house staff. Hes also internationally respected as an expert on leadership, strategy, cyber security, paul madisons intelligence and military mallards. While on active duty and 9 11. General meyerrose was under the command of the airspace over north america. So hes the first of two actual warriors who are going to put on here in a minute. He also served as chief Information Officer of three Major Us Air Force commands and three unified us military commands. At one point he controlled all the satellites in orbit area. Some of which we cant talk about. He became the first chief of Information Officer, to sort of get the pattern of this. In desert storm, in the other wars of the United States is thought hes had Actual Experience with the decisions about who to target, what the package looks like, how to justify it and how to think about it and so were really uniquely pleased to have general Dale Meyerrose with us tonight. [applause] you mentioned he has a phd . So now, on the artistic side of this group, we have the real pleasure to introduce to you one of the hottest young directors, liesel tommy. [applause] one of the great things about this theater for michael con is because michael con, we gave him the gig of running a classical play in new york at a young age. He does the same thing picking out the hottest young directors and bringing them in to work on classical plays so liesel is going to be directing macbeth which opens here on may 1. I asked her for permission to knock off the scottish play and all that. She said no, you can go down to the theater. Liesel was born and raised in south africa during the apartheid era. And i think that experience obviously is something shes going to reflect on today. Her family moved to massachusetts when she was 15. She received her mfa from an unknown college around the university and the trinity repertory company. This tommy has directed theater all over the United States and shes, not just for classic plays but for bringing out the personal experience of people to life. She believes theater should be meaningful and dont we all. And be able to change an audience and so one of her latest productions, eclipse is written by dan idea, i may not have said it right, tells the story of the five liberian women who tried to bond toward the end of the second liberian war. This production actually became the first ever allfemale cast a play written and directed by a female to premiere on broadway so im going to pause for applause on that. [applause] last summer, miss tommy made history as the first woman of color to add a tony award nomination for best director for her nomination of eclipse. Shes now in reversal for a play and her conception of shakespeares macbeth, were going to talk a little bit about it tonight. You have got to come see it. Anyway, thank you very much for taking up some overtime. [applause] you know, this was the far side of town but here comes the big stuff. Ive had the honorable ryan zinke, secretary of the interior. [applause] so heres Teddy Roosevelts successor as the owner of the public branch. This man controls 1 5 of the landmass of the United States and he has a property that he controls around 10 or 12 times. Usually serves as a member of the house of representatives and indeed will on the hill which is our production of members of congress back on stage. We have the pictures of that. He comes from a very famous Literary School but is in underwater demolitions and became a seal. There are many books coming out of that war and he has a terrific book that im going to recommend in a moment. He was a navy seal for over 20 years. X he deployed andcarried out the missions. [applause] of our country and he directed the training of the seals and he trained the man who killed osama bin laden. Carried out all of the things that were necessary to protect the folks, ryan zinke not only is a warrior but trained the warriors who still protect us today. And at football, thank you. [applause] at football, he was the center for the oregon ducks, and we were that close. And i have to say some of you were totally improper. Many would advance but he had the best of the package. It was that close. So with that, you have warrior who is now in a cabin for the United States, hes taken the time to be with us and talk about this and i want to say that i want all of you but my all, all 60 of our books, every single one. And i want you, i also want you to buy the sixth book called commander serving a country worth fighting for and training the british soldiers who lead the way and its a terrific book. And in it, before he knew he was going to be secretary of theinterior, he talked about his philosophy of public lands so let me ask you to give areally warm welcome to the secretary that he and the rest of the panel. [applause] because renard is my favorite author, he is my favorite author, we are going to ask him to lead off this discussion about shakespeare and the rules of war at this time and how it relates to ours. I know its going to be entertaining and youre going to love it. Thank you stephen. I have a great deal to say about the rules of war. [laughter] but in one place he does actually mention the rules of war, he called the law of art. And whether the welshman, he said tell me about his attempts onthe battlefield. Its the lord of arms. What ever they bought was the law of arms. He said from this, all the happened is they just killed all their prisoners. An incredibly brutal passage but what has happened was francis gone into the weight. Both, many prisoners had been taken. They were behind the english lines. And suddenly a third line and what henry says is that it was a privilege, not really like that but he would join the battle again and he ordered them killed. And there wasnt anything for llewellyn to complain about. So whatever hes complaining about, he goes right round of the flanks of the english and the invasion of the english camp, they steal all the crown jewels. But all that hes complaining about is that they killed the boy. That is the law of art. And i think that its something thats going to keep coming up. Because how do you indicate those laws, its the nation in lawlessness. We educate our children and then we train them to be killers. This isnt even the half of the civilization, im sure others do. Theres a clear vote way back in the 12th century, they tried to explore what he called malice and homicide. Homicide is not equal to murder. Man aside is killing somebody who is evil. Somebody was evil and somebody who wasnt a christian but thats gone all the way through the laws of war, who was killed and who can they not kill. What shakespeare is saying is you cant kill somebody and not having come come back. This panelist only has one lawyer and hes in washington. I brought reinforcements. What is remarkable the flaw in this. You have more to please anywhere ever met, i bought one with a lot of debris. [laughter] but i had the various first attempt to notify the law and if im wrong, its called the league approach and its drawn up in the United States 1863 and sometimes call the lengthy approach. He immigrated to america and to columbia, caroline and gambia and when he thought of war, he was a 21yearold boy. And the Sergeant Major was a woman. And she had three decorations of bravery, everybody said there terrific. She fought all the way for through the duluth. Even dropped the code of war, which very much is in today, it says you mustnt kill people who are not, you mustnt poison. You mustnt kill the women. And my last connection, i promise i will shut up and im not condoning this in the story. But it is relevant to shakespeare. The british were honoring sergeants. That was guilty of murder, stop with that privilege. And thats the conviction of murder was reached to malaughter, i think its being chaired. Im not condoning what demanded, i dont know the details of it. And im also proud to tell you that his last words were a mate, its time you shuffled off this mortal coil. [laughter] well. [laughter] its true. I told you it would be entertaining. Missed tommy. Hello. So for all kinds of reasons. This is probably my seventh production. Of thats dealt with war. And possibly because i came from an activist bent, through the struggle. Its something that i feel a lot of time in my childhood thinking about and i directed a play called ruins which is the inner combo and what happened during the mac away was in government. The military and two different kinds of soldiers, civilians and minors all in one space and then click the wounded, was a unified women but through it was written, really got the sense of a larger civil war all around you. Ive also done a play in europe which is about talking about war. And the experiences that they had and it just seems to me something that i keep coming back to so when they asked me to direct macbeth, my job as an artist and as a director is to serve analysis, get into the mind of the writer and try to understand how he or she is trying to talk about. And then, think about who my other is and think about two processes, how can i get this story into their lives. So theyre not watching it historically as an experience, but there watching it. It has to be a point, i dont see any purpose in going to sit and watching it feel dated or safe. So after i completed macbeth, i thought i was finishing washington. And i thought that what macbeth was about that i had seen is actually about grief. And grieving for ones country. And that is certainly something i can relate to. There are books written about the country called cry beloved country and the grief is about the same feel about what happened to their country, having a dictator, a tyrant in power and the question of what has to happen to leaders, to citizens to make them take up arms in their own country and fight a civil war. That is the center of this play. And every scene that sort of, every scene of violence is about a father losing a son. Or a mother losing a daughter or a child. And that seems to me from shakespeare is that hes trying to show a personal cost of war. Now, we come from a country that loves to glamorize war. But i took that challenge and i took it very personally. So there are strands in macbeth that are really about what it feels like inside the civil war and what the personal cost of war is and what brief for your country is. Thats it. [applause] in washington by the way you are not allowed to have a member of the cabinet not legal office but ryan zinke is quite a humble man and said he would go third tonight though mister secretary. Its true. My background is as a commander. I thought i was never the best jumper guy but i always was. And i was also commander of special forces in iraq. So my experience is a little different. I dont think we glamorize war, at least not those who fought it. We make a decision to go to war and to solve one. I like many of you are bothered and i dont want my kids ever to go to war unless they can win. And the rules of engagement are first. But i think we elect to our kids as we extend in the age of our country, what is it, we make a decision in war, we go to war to win but in the direct frame, the rules of engagement, i would say you would add one more and this breach of conflict, weve been in battle longer than a period in our nations history by almost 12, but the rules of engagement today are much different. Seals look at brett, noncorrect. The right is where, we engage it. But was a threat is asymmetrical warfare is the first person with a gun. The person with a cell. The person that flying in a mission, the difficult process to sort out. People walk in to their location when its a group of people. Is how do you sort and select. How do you say in this room if you have 29 combatants, and that combatant is hard or not, how you do it . Ultimately, that task comes to country. Thats why we rely on macbeth. It is a judgment call. Because if our rules of engagement wont allow us to strike in basque as, theres been plenty of locations wherethere are individuals who go out. They are engaged in combat. Theres an hd 130 overhead which is a gun in placement. They asked for direct support and that they are engaged in combat and they dont get support. The reason is because someones making a judgment call on whether engaging that a 130 will bleed over into civilian casualties. If the enemy is firing from the building within the building. Are they in fact enemy combatants . But if you werent there and you are being fired upon, and your teammates are getting hit, to not have the equipment available, i can tell you that feels rough. They cant depend on going after them. And all these operations are wellplanned. And the prf which is a Quick Reaction force would go out, they get in trouble, the cavalry will get there or what they have, they have artillery. Whether they go out and get engaged in theenemy, they cannot get a. They are smart, they wont go out. They will turtle up. Or they do go out, they will go out heavy and they cant rely on any other force to render aid. So i will go back to the mac most important part is you got to trust your people. And thats where training comes in. Nobody that i know once wore. Is it because weve been engaged in combat for the longest period in American History and one or two things, dont join the navy. By default. Hes a navy guy, she married a navy seal. Hes a fine young man, hes an ea. He has gone to war at least 12 times. Total. Normal to him is not. Normal him is over there. He has spent more time over there then he has here. How does that affect him . You should try going to the Grocery Store with him. His head will swivel but when these troops are coming back and they were fighting so much for so long, they forget normalcy in society. They become hardened. Their judgment in the place is threat, nonthreat. Thats why we fight over there as it comes to hear. Im glad to be with you and i can tell you that in my experience, it never, ever engage in warfare unless you get the truth of it. Your sons and daughters deserve it. Fortunately, we face the enemy that is determined. That place by no rules we imagine, they burn pilots in a cage alive. This is what we face. So with that, i will sit. Thank you. [applause] you really wanted to see whatit looks like from