Announcements and palm beach, florida. Watch live coverage beginning at nine eastern on cspan, cspan now our free mobile video app. Or online at cspan. Org. Prolife advocates discuss whether or not the Justice Department is doing enough to prosecute those who have threatened activists. Organizations and Pregnancy Center since the Supreme Court overturned roe versus wade. The Heritage Foundation hosted this conversation. The welcome to is the department of justice and please welcome jon malcolm Vice President the Heritage Foundation institute for constitutional government. Good morning and welcome to the Heritage Foundation. For a timely discussion of the topic of is the department of justice abusing the act to silent prolife activists. The face accurate just acted in for the freedom of access to clinic entrances was passed in 1994. The act prohibits the use or threat of force and physical extra options that injures, intimidates or interferes with the person seeking to obtain or provide an abortion. Something many folks do not realize though is the face act is not just protect Abortion Clinic that prohibits intentional Property Damage of a facility providing Reproductive Health services, such as a Pregnancy Resource Center, or a house of worship. With that background, let me ask you. Who do you think is more deserving of being indicted for an alleged violation of the face act . The father in this picture, or the people who perpetrated this attack . Our panelists will tell you more about the people and events that i just showed in these photographs. The department of justice and the federal bureau of investigation which is part of the department of justice, are the most powerful Law Enforcement agencies in the country. They are charged with enforcing the law, federal law evenhanded and nonpartisan manner. But lately, many people in this country especially conservatives are highly skeptical that they are fulfilling their duty. Conservatives see d. O. J. And the fbi using a bogus dossier prepared by political operative to pursue a years long russian collision investigation. Also see among other things abuses of the foreign Intelligence Surveillance act, the rate of former president s trump and meera lago and the non rate of bill and Hillary Clintons home in new york. From the labeling of upset parents at School Board Meetings as domestic terrorists. This year alone, the department of justice has indicted 26 prolife advocates under the face act. Fourteen within the last month. Many of these prolife advocates have been arrested in their homes in front of their families by fbi agents appearing fully armed. Even though virtually none of these people had a criminal record and even though the alleged acts for which there being charged had occurred months before hand. Virtually all of these arrests occurred after the leak of the draft majority opinion in the dobbs case last may. At a time when the democrats had made abortion a major theme of the upcoming midterm elections. In the meantime, since the dobbs a week there have been at least 86 attacks of catholic churches. And at least 75 attacks of Pregnancy Resource Centers and prolife organizations. Of course pro abortion protesters continue to picket outside the homes of conservative Supreme Court justice. What has the Justice Department done about these atrocities . With an excellent panel with us today to discuss all of these events. To my far left is andy, executive Vice President and general counsel of the thomas more society and National Public interest law firm representing individuals involved in the Prolife Movement. Prior to that he serve executive Vice President and general counsel of boys town. And its been active in the Prolife Movement for over 30 years including chairman of the board of the wisconsin right to life Political Action committee. Two over for me is my colleague, hans is a senior legal fellow here in the center. Previously served as a federal Election Commission or but more germane to our discussion today he also served as a career attorney and then counselor to the head of the department of Justice Civil Rights Division during the george w. Bush administration. Between andy and hawes, has a distinguished career in Public Service and in Law Enforcement. He served in the Virginia Senate and as of virginias attorney general. He also served as the defective deputy secretary of Homeland Security and the defective director of u. S. Citizenship and Immigration Services during the Trump Administration. Kent is now a file of the Susan B Anthony which souks lunch and seeks to reduce and ultimately end abortion in the united states. The person to my immediate left with a background in education, has educated the public and advocated for marriage, family, life and religious freedom for the past 25 years as the president of wisconsin family action. A state Family Policy Council headquartered in madison, wisconsin. So angela start with you. The picture i showed of the man and his family, who is that person and tells what happened to him for. That person is a mark. He is a delightful fellow. He is a devoted husband, father of seven he runs a catholic ministry. He administers to the needs of young men and he is aware that a huge portion of women who choose to have abortions, do so because they are desperate. They would prefer to keep their baby but they have resurveyed all the resources and decided things are hopeless and they have to take this drastic measure. Until he goes to the sidewalks in front of Abortion Clinics and gives of himself and offer support to those wind women and many of them choose life. Theres a Pregnancy Resource Center right across the street from this clinic where this incident occurred. An market goes there he takes the abuse that is heaped upon prolifers by the Abortion Clinic escorts, gives of himself selflessly in order to help these women. He was there at the clinic. The face act to mention was passed back in the 90s to counter a movement that sought to shut down Abortion Clinics entirely by doing sit ins in front of the doors. They shut the clinics down in the feds intruded on what should be a state function or a local function and pass a law that criminalized shutting down Abortion Clinics by obstructing clinic entrances or by violences. Now mark did nothing like that. Mark had his 12yearold son there at the clinic was being abused by when the escorts. There is an interaction between the two that had nothing to do with interfering with the clinic activities. Mark is innocent of these chargers but he did not violate the face act. This is startling abuse of government power progress the allegation was the clinic operator or persons in the clinic got in the face of his 12 year old some whom you mentioned that mark supposedly pushed him out of the way. And that is the crux of the charge. Its my understanding before the federal government came inside you charge him under the face act which he could face years in prison and a 250,000 fine per charge of this case was presented to local authorities. There is also another action initiated by the alleged victim could you tell us about that customer. This is just an atrocity. Under the face act the first offense is a misdemeanor that carries a penalty of up to a year in prison or a 10,000 dollars fine. Theres Bodily Injury associated within those penalties are increased by a factor of ten. So after the interaction between mark and the escort the police were called, the police came to the scene. They found what was a little scrape on the arm of this escort. And decided not to take any action. Now the law provides the escort with an option of initiating himself and he did that. Those ultimately dismissed when he continue to fail to show up for court appearances. So this should have been hand of the state and local level. It was a long time ago, nothing came of it because nothing really happened that the law should take any notice of it. And then the feds come in a year later and charge him with a felony a couple felonies for reviling the face act once again its a terrible abuse of government power. Theres a Pregnancy Resource Center right across the street. The model has changed in the early 90s in the face act was passed were prolife activists are doing sit ins and shutting down clinics. Right now what they are doing is there going to the sidewalks, offering women who are desperate and want to keep their babies the support they need to make that choice. And together the Pregnancy Resource Centers have come together to pose an existential threat to the abortion industry and they have to get them out of there. One of the techniques they use is to make them so miserable they will not want to come back. If they bring their children than they prey on those children so the parents wont want to come back for they mess with their kids and thats what happened here. This is an injustice, jon. This is basically your experience with prolife demonstrators . They have escorts going after the kids who the demonstrators bring with them . Is something we see all across the country. So theyll get in the face of the kids. They will be abusive to the kids vulgar they will explain the birds and the bees to the kids. Anything to make the parents go away. Prolife protesters occasionally get attacked themselves . They do all the time. The police are federal authorities responsive to that . Quick sometimes they are terrific and other time of a great deal of difficulty getting the police to charge appropriately and we have to go to court and seek protective orders. Or even injunction sometimes. So tell us about your work with the wisconsin family action. And also the events in the second series of pictures that i showed . Lecture thank you jon. Wisconsin family action or part of the safe Family Policy Network of about 38 of us all across the country. We are engaged in a Public Policy arena. We work with the government. We interact with the media, we work with the culture we have a presence in churches trying to encourage people to stand up for marriage, family, life and religious freedom are not a single issue group. We are not a pregnancy care center. So this is been very interesting. Because a picture you showed up there was my personal office in madison, wisconsin. We have about 1800 square feet in our office and we have a lot of windows. We are located at a main artery to the Madison Airport actually. That was an attack that was done on mothers day of this year. It was early in the morning for. After the dobbs . Adopt decision was released on monday. And quite honestly i knew something was going to happen. Because within moments of that media saying hey this has been leaked, what happened at the u. S. Supreme court . There were people there instantly. So we know its all planned its all choreographed. So i figured something would happen i was just shocked it was us. We were the first one that had a literal attack. This was early in the morning on mothers day. Someone came and put the graffiti on there. A direct threat to us as well as to molotov cocktails into my office. It was obvious it was my office out of our suite. It did quite a bit of damage but it did not do enough so they set fire pretty interesting the news reported that a fire broke out in our office a fire did not break out in our office. It was combustion. It did quite a bit of damage in there. If they had been really good at making molotov cocktails that probably would have destroyed the whole end of our building for cracks and god for bid someone have been sleeping in the offices. This had the potential for hurting people seriously. We are doing with explosives, accelerants. Gasoline and fire. So we are very blessed we did not have more damage. And of course the frightening message. It was its a bullying technique its an intimidation technique. They picked the wrong group. It made us in boulder it made us more to what we believe a special area of life. We have long been an outspoken group in the city of madison working with the legislators, working with the media. We are a sought after sorcery. I just responded yesterday they had a pro abortion raleigh and madison and called me and said hey what you want to say about this . So we are known. I never would have thought that we would be the target. But i will say this, summit and wisconsin was going to get attacked over this whole issue, i will take that attack any day over pregnancy care center. Im sorry i dont have it in front of me essentially sits if abortion isnt safe and you arent either. It was signed by a group claiming credit for socalled jains revenge named after jane of roe versus wade. Obsolete Law Enforcement 30 showed up on the day this happened. Do you have any idea of the status of the investigations customer kyiv you talk to the fbi or the bureau of . This is one of the most frustrating things ive ever experienced to be honest. I hear the stories with 84 old woman was shot in the back when she was doing some prolife work and some of these things. I am just appalled at what is happening. So i get the call, im in church numerator mothers day brunch i get the call early in the morning i interact with the police as i drive to the office. When i get to the Fire Department and police meet me there they have an fbi agent and a member from the atf are there. They close off my office and kept me out of there what were doing interviews all day. And about 4 30 p. M. They commit three cans of physical evidence left and said this is an active ongoing aggressive investigation. I heard from the fbi once and it was at my calling them because someone was trying to say we are trying to track down a phone number it just sounded suspicious so i called the fbi. Ive heard nothing from atf. Now mind you this happened in may 8. The last time i have any direct interaction with the detective who was assigned but the Madison Police department was early june when they requested permission to come in and cheek swab us. So we could get elimination evidence. Well now were talking four months later and ive not heard anything that my dna has been eliminated from the possible suspects. No one has been apprehended. No person has been taken in for questioning. We have a 5000dollar reward out there i sent an open records request with the Madison Police department. Basically what they told me its ongoing and if you want information you should pick up the phone and call us. We are the victim. Im just now back in my office six months later precorrection made reference to the fact youve not really heard from anybody and no arrests have been made. Im just curious. I mention theres always 161 attacks on churches, crisis Pregnancy Center prolife organizations. Are you aware of any arrests that have been made in any of those attacks . I tried to stay in touch with some of the folks that are dealing with all this in places that have been attacked as well as people who would know. And every time i have asked the answer is no one. Now mind you on august 31 a dirt flame log was set on fire on the roof of a planned parenthood facility in kalamazoo, michigan. Four days later the apprehended the person who did that, as they should have. Even though they knew where he bought a log. We have literal damage that is kept me out of my office for six months and we have no one arrested. Whether it was in buffalo, new york or portland, oregon, or in delaware or wherever, no one has apprehended pretty quick to raise a good point. He said someone was arrested immediately after lighting that dirt flame log as they should be just to be clear, none of you has ever advocated violence against an Abortion Clinic or people who work in Abortion Clinic, is that correct is that a fair statement . Yes of course. But you also made a reference for completeness because some these people may not know, you reference it 84yearold woman who was shot i think her name is Mary Jacobson if im correct . I forget which state she was in, there is a referendum in her state on abortion. She showed up at somebodys doorstep to argue i forgive as a prolife referendum are pro abortion she was advocating prolife position. And the women went to the door, got very upset. She did not want her to canvass her for prolife organization at her doorstep. And her husband came out with a firearm and shot her. Now fortunately she was not badly injured, 84 old woman who got shot in fact did not even realize immediately that she had been shops. She felt something and turned to the husband and said did you just shoot me . Yes he had. In fairness he has been charged. So that case is proceeding. But i could just imagine how threatened they felt by 84yearold prolife person showing up right. Now we know it takes. [laugh