Infamiliary. Even as japanese diplomats were con ferring on peace measures, japanese plains were swooping down on pearl harbor. They dropped their death on the air base, civil homes and schools. A hundred japanese planes and midget sub marines took part. The arizona was completely destroyed and four others severely damaged. Three other battleships and three cruisers suffered damage. Nearly 200 planes were destroyed and that sunday morning the Pacific Fleet appeared to be completely immobilized by this sneak attack. Nearly 3,000 casualties added to the catastrophe. Its been 75 years since over 2400 american sailors and soldiers were killed in the japanese attack on pearl harbor, december 7, 1941. Starting now on booktv, on cspan2, a threehour discussion of that day, what led up to it and its aftermath. We have three authors joining us, eri hotta, steve twomey, and craig nelson, each of you in your book about pearl harbor and that era ask the question why did attack the u. S. Guest my conclusion was that didnt really have a coherent decisionmaking process. Nobody was responsible, they felt, and nobody was brave enough to step in and say, well, this war that theyre contemplating was crazy so lets stop. I think people felt that somebody else should be blamed for that kind of cowardice. There was no military dictatorship but they felt they had to keep up thunder appearances for each other so it was really a complicated sort of system of sort of passing on the risk possibility to each other and everybody backing off. Host steve twomey, what was your conclusion. Guest mine is the same. Almost a leap into an abyss. It was an attack born more of hope than of actual strategic calculation. We need to remember that the attack on pearl harbor was only a small part of what japan was doing that day across the pacific. We knew what was likely to be happening elsewhere. They were moving forces toward singapore and malaya, the philippines, the dutch east indies. That was their primary objective and pearl harbor was an added element, primarily because they thought that the Pacific Fleet was the only thing in the pacific that could interfere with their plans elsewhere. But basically the idea that they could win this war was on a fairly shaky foundation. Host craig nelson. Guest i think the great example comes in the most written about japan man in history,am moto yamato, claiming that the japanese cannot possibly attack america when it is suicide, dont do it you cant win this war. Is so vocal that the rest of the navy is fearful that theyre going to assassinate him and it is actually assigned to stay on a battleship to keep that from happening and then at the same time his planning the attack on pearl harbor and has to then to quit the service to make that happy because the navy is so against going forward. So he is famously called the reluctant admiral by historians. You can see the attack on america was the reluctant japanese as a whole. Guest i found one of the most thrilling parts of hearing about the story was to hear the very First American weather were attacked, which is the japanese air crews came in over the north, and as they did so, they came across three of the california servicemen, saying farewell. Their last day after a year of being stationed in hawaii. They were going to return to california on the 8th and as one final day they decides to use their pilots license to rent tandems and piper cubs, little tiny ball so little ty canvas air planes planes that wn were taken down by the japanese, and to think of being in one of those little tiny planes and meet the Japanese Air Force is just astonishing to me but those were the First American casualties. Host but at 8 00 a. M. , as theyve flew over oahu into pearl harbor snow youre seeing 96 ships in the harbor beneath them. The average age of the service men are 19. So everyone are real tiny kids. No idea what is about to help. One of my favorite quotes was, i didnt know they were sore at us. Thats how far of away from knowing what was happening. The japanese created a technological advantage with stateofthearter to ptsd doughs and their fins break off and they settle and strike the target instead of being stuck in like theyre supposed to. They created state of the art naval shells to drop from 11,000 feet and extraordinary explosions that hit the powder magazine in the arizona and take it apart and you see them arriving over where they arrived is that famous north shore of oahu, and you see them arriving there and i they say, i cant believe were looking at a nation at peace and about to turn it into hell. Host steve twomey, the subtitle of your book is the 12 days to the attack. What happened in those 12 days . Guest the reason for selecting that time frame is that the japanese attacks on november 26, 1941, from the secret Assembly Point at the far northern extremity of japan. It was going to take them 12 days to get to hawaii, about a little over 3,000 miles. And during those 12 days, the United States was collecting clues of one kind or another that Something Big was about to happen. I mixed that we knew i mentioned that we knew that Japanese Forces were moving towards the southwest pacific. We knew that from consular and the chinese Coast Commercial ships. Very hard for japan to mask the movement of those particular forces. We never knew about the advancing fleet that was also part of this military offensive. And but during the days there was considerable evidence accumulating that something was about to happen. In fact, if i might, 75 years ago today, december 4th, is when washington formally warned its outposts on guam to start burning secret documents and destroying the code machines. That is how much we anticipated that something was going to happen. Along the way, of course, judgments were made, decisions were made, many cases incorrect ones, and the result was the end of that period, december 7th. Host what the fact it happened at pearl harbor a surprise . Guest earl harbor has long been discussed as the possible target of any japanese attack, a target even before a declaration of war. All through 1941, the navy was discussing the possibility of surprise at pearl harbor. Started in fact with the secretary of the navy, frank knox, writing to his counterpart at the War Department in january, that he was concerned about the japanese attacking pearl harbor prior to the declaration of any war. And that theme kept coming up most noticeably or notably, should i say, in a report in march of 1941. In which an army general and a navy admiral pretty much theorized exactly what happened as they had gotten into the michael j. Foxs delaurean and gone to the future and seen what would happen. They foresaw an air attack on hawaii from a force that we never would have detected. So, a surprise attack on pearl harbor in theory was not a surprise. The reality was a surprise, however. Host eri hotta, what was japan like in 1941 . What was going on . Guest well, lets remember that japan was already at war in 1941. Japan had been engaged in the war of conquest that started out of the exit plan already in 1937, mid1937. Japan start fighting china. Trying to conquer it, and they conquer cities but they dont quite get the whole huge country under control, and they kept saying that they are winning and leaping from victory to victory, which was really true but they were not winning the war. So, people starting to wonder, this war that was supposed to be quickly over in one month, after four years it hasnt really ended. Whats going on . I think that most acute sign of this pro longed wore they didnt know where it was going, was their hunger. Their rationing system had put into effect went into effect in april 1941 already. And the main target was the staple rice, which has such a huge sacred place in japanese diet. If they dont have anything else to eat, rice is the thing. And as long as they have rice theyre happy. But they dont have this rice. They have to do with this subgrade imported kind. Even then they have to dilute it with potato or something. And that started in in early 1941 but by the fall of 1941, all the major metropolitan haves to do the rationing system, which must have been quite scandalous to them and also quite a worrying sign. They cant really question the authority because they already in the semi war economy and theyre not really an independent since 1931, since the manchurian incident. The major newspapers have been very friendly with the military and theyve been trying to boost their circulation by really launching this jungowistic campaign supporting the war effort. Once you start that kind of selfcensorship its quite difficult to turn around and say from now on were criticizing you. So 1937 that was ask lated one notch again and by 1941, is there were more regulations about everyday aspects of peoples life that people must have felt quite suffocated, uncertain, they also knew that japan went into southern indochina in the summer of 1941, retaliated by american embargo on oil. When it came to it. So they felt that went into this impossible situation of economic plight. Only because they wanted to survive well and they wanted to be great leader of asia. They also wanted to believe they were doing there is for their asian neighbors as well to decolonialize them. That was part of the claim put into place in the official rhetoric since 1931, so they have this selfputt selfpit using emotion, feelingology uncertainty and wanting to get on with life and just move on and secure enough for the family. So host why did japan attack china in 1937 . Guest because well, for a number of reasons that always had something to do with it, bravado, and also they had a genuine fear of bolsh ivy ism and this sense of being cheated out of the rewards or imperial jim because japan arrived too late. All the western powers reaped benefits from imperialism in china and they were lane to even it divide for a long time until they realize that perhaps this very westernized and during kind of charming Chiang Kaishek might be the next leader of china so they decided to keep it unified. Which japan really didnt like. That was the japanese state. So, they felt that they were the ones who should be protecting chinese and by extension asian interests as a whole, and its not the america. Its japanese they involved the sense of moral doctrine and they felt that they had this special regional interest in that sphere. Host craig nelson, how signature significant was it when fdr moved the naval base from the pacific to pearl harbor. Did that threaten japan . Guest not really. Fdr was convinced he could get them to calm down about their ambitions against our friends, the chinese, america was very close to china and we are appalled at the americans think can that the chinese were our natural allies in the fight against fascism, much more than the british letch was convinced he had to fight two admirals, river sound and richardsons kimble and fdr was conniveses by keeping a big Pacific Fleet it would main japan nervous and it did not work. What wandded toed a to the portrait by explaining one of the great conflict wes see at this moment is the fact that the United States is looking at the japanese leaders as being like the nazis. Theyre a unified force of fascism uneedded behind a mom dictator and a common way of life and common philosophy, and none of this was truce. In the 14 years of the war the japanese leadership changes hands 15 times, the government changes hands 15 times. The army was fight being if the navy, the navy fight little within itself. A the civilian government was filing with aberdeen and they just lurched from crisis to cries and one of to the mose chaotic governments, and its very difficult to prepare a Defense Strategy against an enemy that lost its mind. Host steve twomey, the geopolitics had a big role, didnt it . Guest yes youch cant separate what was happening in the pacific from what was happening in the atlantic. The fact of a war in the atlantic was paramount in roosevelts mind in terms of using American Resources to keep the british in the war against the germans. And in fact by the time of pearl harbor there was a shooting war in the atlantic ocean. American naval ships were escorting british convoys to britain. Roosevelt had given orders to shoot on sight any german surface ship or submarine they encountered and that was happening. In fact, couple of american destroyers had been sunk with loss of life prior to pearl harbor. So his focus was the atlantic, and as a result he was stripping ships from the Pacific Fleet in hawaii, much to the objection of admiral kim mel, the commander of the Pacific Fleets, and the last thing roosevelt wanted was a war in the pacific, precisely because it would affect his ability to help the british the british were getting sustained in part by the resources coming from the far east, and any war was going to disrupt that chain of resources, plus the American Navy would shift ships from the atlantic back to the pacific if there was a war. Very famously at one point roosevelt wrote to someone, member of his cabinet, saying, i simply dont have enough ships to go around to fight a war in both places. And his preference was to keep it in the atlantic, but, yes, geopolitics was major reason for what was happening in the pacific. Host and welcome to booktv on cspan2 can and our monthly in depth program. This where is we have one author or one topic discussed for three hours, with your phone calls and your social media comments as well. This month its the 75th areas of the attack on pearl harbor. Here are the phone numbers 2027488200 for those who live in the east and central time zone. 2027488201 in the mountain and pacific time zone, and world war ii veterans, we would love to hear from you as well. World war ii era folks who remember pearl harbor. 6,120,000 or so veterans are still surviving front world war ii according to the va. 2027488202 is the number for you to call. Now, if you cant get through on the phone lines and want tore pennsylvania tase pate go to facebook dom booktv or tweet us, book tv is our twitter handle. Well get to your calls just as quickly as we can. Let me tell you just a little bit about our three authors. Lets begin with eri hotta. Her book is called japan, 1941 and came out just a couple years ago and he is also taught at Oxford University in the past. Born in tokyo. Craig nilsson im sorry, steve twomey next. His book is called countdown to pearl harbor, the 12 days to the attack. He won a Pulitzer Prize for feature writing at the Philadelphia Inquirer and then worked to Washington Post for many years and has taught at New York University and City University of new york. And finally, craig nelson, his most recent back is called pearl harbor from infamy to greatness. A former Vice President and executive editor of harper and rowe, high peeran and random house. Some of his other books include rocket men exepic story of the first men on the moon and author of the first heroes. The extraordinary story of the doolittle raid. Guest guest would who superior of the Major Players heading up to pearl harbor. Guest its eye ron yankee you ask the question because i thought that all the japanese counterpart countries, like germany, italy uk, they have figs, key statesman, the problem with japan is they didnt have effective leaders. They had a handful of fairly ineffective leaders who, by the sheer force of their weak personalities, remained in power, and i think the utmost example is hirohito, who is host emperor. Guest empour empour ore. He wait to supposed to inter fear will politics over the felt like he had a veto power was what reluctant to use it, according to his potion war confession. Host could he have stopped pearl harbor. Guest i personally do. Many people disagree but i think the fact that he felt he needed to explain why he didnt intervene and exercise a veto power after immediately after a few years after the war. Thats very telling because he probably himself felt that he needed to explain and probably could have done so. His reasoning was that he thought if he didnt go along with the joint decision of the military civilian government, that was put up to him, to pursue diplomacy or military or he would be undermining the military. Probably felt there could be a diplomatic breakthrough within the time frame, which is really too optimistic in hindsight but might have felt it because somebody else in the government, Prime Minister, from conway, who was for three years Prime Minister of japan out of four years leading up to the war on and off. He is another weak, ineffective leader who managed to perpetuate his bauer because of his weakness and indecisiveness. He was from the second novelist from the japan almost like the second emperor, and because he was a prince and he felt that Prime Ministership was really beneath him, and even if hi makes a mess of something, somebody else will cover for him. That was his attitude all the way through. He escalated the china war in 1937. He allowed a very bombastic and rather maniacal minister to reach an alliance with germany and itfully the fall of 1940. He didnt really pursue the opportunity to back out of that infamous alliance when they had a chance after the operation when hitler attacked soviet union and the alliance should have no longer held, and that would have impressed on the American Mind that japan was really serious about the peace negotiation with washington. He didnt pursue any of that. Then he went ahead and okayed the southern occupation of couples of southern indochina which roosevelt was really said he felt like he had a cold bath or Something Like that. Dont know the exact quote. He was waiting to hear from the japanese, a reply to this proposal that he roosevelt came up with which is really conciliatoriy. If japan decided to with draw from southern indochina, its troops, roosevelt would make slur that the whole of indo chinese peninsula would be neutralized which should have minute a whole di