Transcripts For CSPAN2 John Pomfret Discusses The Beautiful

CSPAN2 John Pomfret Discusses The Beautiful Country And The Middle Kingdom April 1, 2017

To cover in 1989 the massacre and for his troubles he was expelled. With his alleged drinks with during that period he reported from bosnia afghanistan and iraq and turkey end later became the editor of the law Washington Post section of the weekend that is familiar to all of you then headed back to china on a fulbright grant he is the of winner of the elliott prions which is given by the Asian Society also the 2007 prize and the pattersons journalists of color ship if so welcome to the bills and center. We have a lot of people in the audience so you although the u. S. China relations are in the next of the very precarious period described as our respective spheres out with the hopes anytime since normalization running very deep bin relations since relations were founded lead in both countries the u. S. China relationship to be adversarial that has not happened before. It is a reflection of the views of the people that the majority of the chinese at the same time reported a negative view it is only a matter of perception but real difficult problems into a strategic area like korea or the tight s. C. Bottles of beer over do of the economic relations thises going now the devastates faces domestic conditions now as they are trying for Global Leadership so at this very difficult time of generations both, are in need of a deep breath. Self therapeutic breath so in the middle kingdom but it sets out to be a history of mutual influence could end the search for patterns and the attempt to draw up pattern so looks at the mutual fears and hopes san inspirations and illusions and touches on these assesses of impeachment but it is a pattern of mutual frustration and fascination of. And those chineseamericans that shaped, or symbolize the ammunition ship. So to be a novel but the stories are so good but also between coulter and ideas. And then you can get the signed. And then to get be attention that it deserves. And am looking for a the questions from the audience as well. Anytime you get to the new era in a delicate but both sides want. This is the light motif to go through the book. So the classic is the expansion of but all those u. N. To change china with the implication maybe it would not made such a difference if it is the essential to what happened in china in the early educational exchanges those who return home after graduating found the Diplomatic Service but telegraph office in the architecture american funded institute of china paleontology and bonnie will with the idea of humanrights. What role does this play with positive contributions with that patterns . And we have indeed conduct the story in then ended up building the bomb. So have we changed the are of the of perception greg. Both their Great Questions but generally speaking there is a recognition but in terms of party state ideology less than 15 or 20 years ago their packaging of the interactions with china but that said there is this the in acknowledgement to the foundation of western learning and china that there was coulter imperialism. So it is a schizophrenic picture that specifically in the last decade interested to hand down. So when they write bsa to say how can you credit china met a americans to save that was the immediate alacrity. But with the engagement issue, i think it is in just a simple issue from my perspective but having just left china after leaving there there is that sense not necessarily of warmth but in many bays is too big to fail pet clearly there is that a knowledge meant that chinas process of modernization so while the competition aspect and the lack of trust has increased with the reliance on america for technology to help china with the future. It is frayed from where we lived many years ago. How did they fit into this giving speeches the museum of history was no mention of the influence from the year earlier period i placed him in a way of a nationalist much less willing to except the contributions even though he had a fractious relationship he was often follow his orders and his emphasis of at the cross pollination between china and the west and he ignores that. But the party state is minimizing those contributions were the reality is is clearly not. Questions i had is that was reading the story that parallelism is hard to maintain the twostory but arent these fascinating period are sidebars but they seem to be closer to the mainstream story so in essence of breeding more of the china story so can you respond to that . How might that be differently . My guess is very difficult because it figured greatly in the imagination with where china was tiny compared to the United States with the biggest percentage from the early 1800s bennett collapse after that. So all of these dreams about china pushing will give further to the last as the dream aspect americans were just not that concerned to deal with the degradations looking perhaps as a potential ally. Selling did say natural push the the influence of chinese immigrants to the United States and that was one strand of influence. With the occasional interest of the chinese tradition but if you say anything from contemporary Coulter Coulter coulter r. Is there any cultural influence . If you talk more broadly about the Chinese Soft Power there is very of little soft power around the world and even more so. Sunday constrictions on culture and to explore the cultural ideas. And then you have much less out. So that is a natural weakness. But another strain of influence is how they had used china as petri dish for american ideas. It as Dave Fulbright foundation. Into those are taken by americanamerican s. I just dont see it very much. Than the movie with matt damon those that are competing for soft powers i have not seen the great wall yet but to read those reviews added is a work in process but 1935 alone more than 350 million movies. But then to get translated to china. So what do you attribute to that fascination and the various period and then creeping up after words . Rebecca cultural soft power to play out in china. It has framed lot of the of way the chinese will tell their own story. Was deep as americans were involved in the beginning so if you look at jazz in the 1920s because they were playing places like hot dog stands and the chinese economy is in shanghai. To then will look up with the chinese music caught music to have a chinese version. And with those chinese traditional folk song those that would that would be the chinese songbook. And so then you steve the chinese come true. Said to have that cross pollination and if you some normalization then chinese are coming to the states and then the sense so remember run the Second Avenue subway . With the cause of great hilarity. And then took 20 years to build one mind of subway down your city said to be the analogous let with the culture to look down there noses of the United States. To make a key contribution and that he actually had a design then boeing cut the 50 check. Those that as a collective suspense that they played of conveyors of values could you tell us a little bit about that . American missionary because that would merit the book in its own right. Lot of americans in the north were in the abolitionist movement. When they graduate from college they had limited career options. But the opportunity to become a missionary was to american women because as that experienced grew in china with the realization and then we have to have american women but those that are married to those preachers to go to china to prophesies. So for a while their largest chunk of all missionaries event got deeply involved with the first Literacy Campaign and deeply involved that where we were ultimately successful. And to be a place all the you could be. And then to be effectively banned with the sheriff departments to barely get a job that the college level. Said to have that first career woman. Thatd save fascinating strain you have a lot of american women were as in the United States would be more difficult but also hillary clinton. And with her debacle over health care and from my perspective is not coincidental. But again china has a bizarre role the. What about the Chinese Women you mention these aviators and the chineseamericans that chain the chinese to chinatown first there was the Significant Group to be educated back to china that story is fascinating because those that were prof with sizing in china pet they ever told ago find a nice to chinese christian husband but these women said i will not do you tell me so from the first class for Womens College said to be like the single american women as of micro culture and on the other side the idea of a powerful woman in the Chinese Culture you see that in the first nonwhite ethnic new movie star from chinatown and los angeles when she opens her mouth is like the valley girl and was amazingly transfixed but that chinese reaction to that so that one side she was mobbed by people as a great movie star bette the chinese conservative as being a sellout because she would wear scanty close in debts that was the reaction. You tell the stories which also looking for patterns so what is the useful lens Going Forward mac this cycle of enchantment with the idea that china will make us all rich. Follows inevitably if you think insanity is doing the same thing then they go up to rise up again that disaster is disenchantment. So where we are going into the future clear from the 1780s through now where we are at this moment is of critical importance. But reading the book that leaguers over it depends on what happens next. About chinas eventual liberalization but is then they story about the convergence and the agreement about what is necessary . Or is this the erotic or tragic story from the legislative point of view of the eventual decline . That gives a very different feel. So with that articulated expectations or is this a story of america . You must have thought of those Different Things and you dont have an answer to that but how do you see that story with how that might play out . Since the 1800s United States generally had a strong china in the interest of the United States. That is an example and the cold war. So now we have a strong china so at least on the surface so we are confronting bill will problem so i think we are in between that place and right now very much at crossroads with relationships Going Forward in very specific things like how we deal with north korea theyre very policy in the week issues and how that plays out with the social problems and how we deal with our is individually with those factors as well but i think were at a crossroads with that and injuring another five years this is a story that will be compelling. What they nonamerican decline of us sometimes but the chinese definitely the potential for ameritech to fall on its face but americans overestimate chinas ability and that is something we need to bear in mind as we like it is Going Forward senate having been involved in china more than 40 years you have heard a lot from those chinese interlocutors understanding them far better so that this marvelous to behold it to study english what is your take on chinas understanding of the United States and how we deal with each other and then turn that around what about americas understandings . The chinese have a difficulty understanding American Civil Society and the rule that it plays to keep the wheels from falling off but they also pull us together there is a massive fundraising bench and he did not understand why so he needed me to go back and watch them through. Yes that is related to religious values. Not necessarily but there was a full value discussion so even today with the Second Avenue subway the way they do look at america and a positive way is the American Values that dont quite get were those values come from and they have a difficulty understanding how america could write itself as the nature of our system dont understand that and they look at the separation of powers is an efficient that understand was made to be that way so those fundamental misunderstandings is something is in the chinese dna but on the american side for beverly real difficulty we look at them as a totalitarian juggernaut but in reality and now even more so that are pushing one way or the other or advocating for the chinese political system is very complicated for americans the others is to have a tendency to underestimate that problem with the demographics you think of the crushing of dissent that will hurt chinas systemically in the long run. Now lets go to the audience with the major topics of the of book these narratives to the extent possible but it is important. One measure of a society is to look to the arch and all my time in china i was fascinated to look at some operas if that this indication that personification of china is part of the urban chinese woman. And those western values coming into south korea. Through south korea and japanese it is enormous but so is the american dating game influence on china as well. And Reality Television as well. Because so many people were allowed to vote on tv for their star so they were considered a call to revolution then sex and the city and then it becomes influential. Is now used in the communist party so those parallels it is funny because in the 60s they had antiamerican campaigns during the korean war and the soviet ambassador complained getting the chinese to hate the United States for the horrible things they have done so i take the point on the survey to go towards the in American Government so that just eats up that culture. Then had to milliondollar is in revenue. One of the early stories to tell is of the American Ambassador and the antiwestern feeling of the chinese authorities not just the communist party what the is he attribute that to . Or is that the chinese reflection . You keep on hearing we dont pay enough attention. Deep in china there is a desire to think of themselves as separate from other parts of the world to take the science and the culture they will remain chinese and not be influenced by the foreign cultures with buddhism being example but for the chinese to embrace that cross pollination with that fear of the chaos that when they looked at the United States is chaos and what values are transported into china. I have lots of friends that participate in us tenements square crackdown some have become extremely wealthy millionaires if you talk about those graduate students and what they think now to say we dont have your values if we word democratic we would be killing each other under the space so the sense that they are superior to us or inferior is out of the mouth of one person it is always very hard to unpack either one party of authoritarian rule or food and fades into . Against the biggest break between china relations is the establishment of the peoples republic so do you think the relationship between the two countries if Chiang Kaishek had won instead of mao . Can i answer that with one word quack. Yes. [laughter] there are a lot of different historical views but my belief is what created the foundation for the communists date was the invasion of japan that is what contributed to his collapse yes there was corruption and incompetence but actually speaking to the delegation he credits them under oath that speech has been published or not but it is not part of the chinese public record. I have the message that the primary policy when when, maybe. [inaudible] sued to be cleaned to understand units dates with the political system in this days secondary citizen into keep that consistent. White house does china understand america . It depends on where you sit in china if you want to be in the style business there is one month if you have geopolitics there is another lens. Over the last period of time china has understood what it wants from america more than america understands what it wants from china so the chinese system has helped to pursue interest more efficiently and america has allowed to pursue its interest so china looks that the relationship but clearly based on specific National Interest where america has a tendency to look long term and not worry about shortterm interest that has created problems for the United States more than chinese and this has benefited then in the shortterm or if you put money down today hoping to get something tomorrow so from now prospective the chinese and the government have played america better than america has played to enact maybe they have relatively more success. You spoke earlier about the demographic issues so please compare and contrast those demographic issues with those facing the United States. Thats a great question. Sometimes this year but definitely by 2020 the average age will be data above the United States title of a larger percentage of the population above 60 by 2,025,100,000,000 people will be above the age of 80 the chinese knowledge it is a serious problem and to create a lot of cascading challenges with the workforce that is shrinking does not grow well as quickly we have to renovate a less the open society to innovation and the longterm ones to make toys by phones suspending a lot of money on innovation spending money on robotics they dont have a labor force so china has attempted to right the balance but the chinese alike have many babies basso to raise the emerson them to special schools and then the ultimate issue did not make an attractive potential spouse but even in the realestate market is a huge pressure on the chinese family so i think this will give some wiggle room with the demographics to be a crucial problem demographers in america say chinese so be one of the first. With our demographic profile is a little strong

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