Someone in the audience like to recognize. We have Vice President mrs. Pence, his daughter, charlotte and her beautiful baby daughter with us today. Now, here at the reagan library, we obviously talk a lot about the accomplishments and legacy of president Ronald Reagan as well as our nations former first lady, nancy, since being the first lady of the United States, with a lot of attention and a lot of responsible. But what about the role of second lady . While this position may not always receive as much recognition, it is no less important. In fact, being the second lady can be an incredible opportune kitty to inspire change and make a in the lives of others. And this is the perfect description of our speaker tonight, a mother and educator and, Award Winning watercolor artist, mr. Mrs. Pence. His work has brought attention to art therapy and to the sacrifice is made by military service members, their families. Now, now, most people in her place would write a memoir sharing the stories, good and bad, of their life in their time as first lady of indiana and the second lady of the United States. But not karen pence. In fact, in interviews she says that her book is not memoir. In a recent interview with abc news, she said that this book is about encouraging the reader that there are a lot of great things in our country. Our country needs hope, she said in that interview. And people need encouragement to their own everyday lives. I couldnt agree more. The book she is about to sit down and discuss with us is a book of advice, a book of wisdom, a book faith. Its a book that shows how down to earth she really is, how important her family is to her. Ive read it, and as a mom, sister, a businesswoman, a friend, i can tell you that i finished the book a lot wiser than i started. So how about we bring her up to share some of that wisdom with you ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the reagan library. Karen pence. Have you said everything. Well, thank you for joining again tonight. Weve had you here a few times. You were just here for the debate. Appreciate seeing you again. So i mentioned in the introduction just a minute ago that you said this book, a memoir, and you actually say in your book, this is not a book about karen pence but rather a story about how god used me in a right way. In a way. So my question is, you actually asked to write a memoir. You chose to do it this way. How did this sort happen . Thats a great question because i had a couple of book offers and they just really werent anything about what i wanted to talk about. One wanted me to do with children devotional book, another person wanted me to talk about how political spouses dont do very much. And i was like well, i really tried to do a lot. Thats what i want to tell people. So how we do that. But so i kind of shopped before i found just the right publisher because i really wanted to encourage people to step up and serve and to not be intimidated and to not be afraid and to share with them kind of how. I went on this journey, my self. And it like i didnt just all of a sudden start out as second lady of the United States, just like kids dont come out. Teenagers, you know. So i kind wanted to show the journey a little bit. And so thats kind of how it started. Melissa got it. Now, you had a couple of themes in your book that i took away from, and one of them was determination. And determination. Do you know where that determination comes from in your. For me, faith is really central to my life and i really like when i was young, i had a very deep, deep faith. I didnt have very much knowledge about the bible, but i had deep, deep faith and when i started dating mike, i started learning more the bible. He likes to say that he has very little faith and a lot of knowledge, and i have very deep faith and very little knowledge about the bible and. So we kind of started learning a lot about the bible together, but i would say thats where the determination and if thats a thing that you got out of it, i can see that, you know, my kids, i think sometimes get annoyed with me because. I truly am optimist. You know, even when difficult things are happening in our life, i might well, but this isnt happening, you know, but this isnt happening. And theyre like, yeah, but mom, can we just take a minute and say, this is rough now . And i just i just have that optimistic view. And i think that comes from faith. Just trusting that gods in control its going to work out. Thats great. Now, before reading the book, you know, i you were an artist. I knew you were an educator, knew about your faith. But there was a section in here that made me smile. Because you yourself a risk taker. And i was reading all the things of why you called yourself a risk taker. So you rode motorcycles, you got your pilots license, you went skydiving. So it made me wonder what you say is one of your more recent risk taking adventures. Well, probably the one were on right now, i would say, you know, because honestly i, i really felt like our political life was done, you know, and really felt like ive done enough, you know, 20 years in an office, you know, 30 years from when we started. And it was a surprise me, honestly, that the family was talking about this last christmas. My daughter charlotte helped write the book and i remember talking to her one day and saying, you know, i just dont know. I mean, this i mean, i cant believe we would even be this right now. And she said, mom, maybe you need to read your book and it was like a brick in my face. But i think actually kind of got to me was, you know being a christian, im glad that christ didnt say ive done enough for you karen. You know, ive done enough and i thought, you know, right now a time for us to serve and thats the whole theme of the book. Thats the title its your turn to serve. And and it might still be our turn to serve in some way. Yeah. Lets. And great advice, charlotte. You love poetry. You actually quote frost in the book. And i actually wondered if there are some current poets are enjoying reading. You know, honestly, my daughter charlotte, i actually her poem is at the end of the book. Its its a lovely poem. One thing i did was i i wove the theme of bees throughout the whole book. And at the end, charlotte had given me a poem that she wrote in grad school and its called her bees will stay because we started a bee hive at the Vice President s residence and we had to leave it there. Werent going to bring him with us on air force two back to indiana. And so so shes probably my favorite poet right now. But robert frost, i loved his poetry as a little girl and i would memorize his poems and i just absolutely them for some reason and when i was in sixth grade his daughter frost came to at my school and she heard that i like to memorize his poems. And so she gave me an anthology of his poems and the inside. She wrote for karen. You memorize poetry and i dont know that book is now, but we were just in New Hampshire and you can probably figure out why last week and our volunteer coordinator there gave me a book that he had that was written by leslie frost, and its full of her little journals when she was a little girl. And they tell us some of the behind scenes stories about what was going on with her and her dad and some of the things they did and it made me think of charlotte because is our writer. And she she has these little journals from when she was little. Yeah. Now in the previous question about risk taking and you talked about you werent sure if it was time again to serve a kind leads to this question so you had a transition from citizen life right to the spouse of a congressman to the spouse of a governor and the spouse of a Vice President of the united. Im sure each unique in their own way. How are they challenging . And what might you missed from citizen life, if anything . Well, i think one of the things that was for me and, its one thing i write about the book is that we moved 18 times and you honestly, it was that that was tough. You know three kids by the time we get elected, our kids were seven and eight. And so moving with them was, you know, tricky all the way across the country. I really didnt leave the citizen life when mike was a congressman for me, that period, i was mom teacher. You know carpool driver and i talk that in the book because i didnt want anyone to read this book and think, well, im going to be called to be, you know, the first lady of indiana, although we do have a lot of hoosiers with us here tonight that could happen to one of you. You dont know. But i didnt want anyone to feel like what i was talking about in the boo those are some wonderful experiences i wanted to share. But i also say know sometimes were just called to be a good neighbor, you know, and thats where are in part of our life right now. Were learning how to be neighbors in a neighborhood again. And so i really kind of wanted to stress that. But when mike was congress, i didnt do a lot of the congress and all things i, i did some but that was because i felt like, you know, michael, charlotte and audrey were where i needed to be and but then when became first lady of indiana our kids were a stage where i could very involved and i really wanted to be a good steward of those years. I wanted to do something that would make a difference in indiana because i, i was just going to have four years or eight years, not a long period of time. And so thats when with the help of some other hoosiers, we started, the indiana First Ladies Charitable Foundation and, we did one big event every year. And we raised money and gave it to charities in all 92 counties. And so for me, thats kind of the message i keep putting through the book is, you know when you are put in a position leadership, whether thats know the pta chairman or organizing the block party, whatever it might be, you know, god will give you the grace and i some funny stories about that period of my life because friends were encouraging me to do things and as lady and i was pushing like i cant do all that and then god just kind of wove it all together and all of a sudden we had this Great Foundation and so thats kind of message. I really want the book to encourage the reader to say, oh, well, you know, maybe, maybe gods calling me in this area of my life. Im going to look into that, you know, and then maybe hes not. I also tell the story when the kids were little, my bible study leader was just sure that it was my job to lead the next small group and. I said, oh, no, i dont think so. And she said, oh, i really do so. And mike and i prayed about it and talked about it. And i called her up and i said, my ministry right now is, michael, charlotte and audrey and do not feel the need to anything but that right now. And so sometimes you have to really, you know, discern and this is really what im supposed to be doing and speaking about the leadership you do about both your time as first lady of indiana and second lady of United States and all of the things you did say yes to and all of the programs and and the amazing you did. Is it hard at the end of those eight years either governor or Vice President . Is it hard at the end of, the eight years, to walk away from all of those programs . Some of them it was very difficult to walk away from. I think it was we loved our time being back in indiana when mike was governor. It was just so great. I mean, met across the street from the governors. So it just was our old stomping ground. I went to Butler University and it just was so great just being in indiana and so that was, you know, as we all know, that happened very quickly and was kind of a shock. And and there we were so that part was. But i think as lady we had just of started this one group it was the president s road map to empower veterans and and the National Tragedy of suicide it was called prevent and i was to be the ambassador of that. And we had started getting all the different organizations, boards and agencies together there. And we had them all come to the vice residence. And we all presented for each other. And we tried to Work Together and we were really Getting Started on that. And i had done a lot of work with art therapy and the v. A. And so trying to, you know, take those programs that help our vets who were struggling with ptsd and then covid hit and it was like theyre just going to struggle more. So that was probably the hardest program for me to leave. Can i just say to would you please if youre able to stand, if youre a veteran or a veteran, anybody in the room stand up and. Thank and appreciate you. There was something in your book liked that i thought maybe you could share with audience and talk to us. No flapping. Okay. This is just kind of become a story, but everybody hears, okay, so we as those of you or hoosiers in the room, mike ran for congress in 88 and 90 and did win. And we put that dream aside and he had his radio show. I had a watercolor business. We had finally had our three kids. We struggled years with infertility. We built our dream home. I mean life was very comfortable. And i have found that. When life is comfortable, thats usually when god puts it in a blender and says, you know, now what are you going to do with that . So mike, his radio show and that was at a time when this congressional seat that he had run for twice before was open. And he was on the radio. So everybody knew where he stood on all issues and still knew all the donors. And we knew the state reps and people. We were in this room now who who are people who, you know, we still knew and we still had relationships with. And so people were saying maybe you should run for congress again. It was like what were now. Were done with that dream. Like we we that and were done but we felt like just like we did, you know, this maybe we need to look this. So i had surprised mike with a dude ranch trip for 40th birthday i saved all my watercolor money and we went to the Teddy RooseveltNational Forest and it was time for us to decide whether or not we should put our name in the race. And so we took a ride up the top of a bluff. The kids were doing own thing and we got off of our horses and we sat on side of this bluff. And mike said, weve got to make a decision. Its time. Like we to decide if were going to do this or not. And i said, yeah, probably. Its probably time. And we had just been struggling this decision and right then these two hawks, red tailed hawks, started rising on the wind. And mike is kind a romantic and he said, those two hawks are like us. And i said, okay, well if those two hawks are like us, then i think we should do it. But this time we should do it like the hawks, because the first two times we were so arrogant and full of ourselves. And its such a good thing that we didnt win. But this time i said, lets do it like the hawks. Lets make ourselves available, and if god wants to lift us up, then so be it but we should make available and said we should do it with no flapping. And right then. We decided to run and no flapping has kind been our mantra ever since. And so every new staff member, they hear this story and. Believe me, there are times where we have to say to each other, i think youre flapping . No, flapping thats what kind of leads to this question, because of how you got to the birds. So obviously talk a lot about your faith in this book and. There are a lot of biblical verses. This may be an easy question, may be a really hard question. Do you have a favorite bible verse and why . Mm well, thats a great question. When mike and i decided to Start Talking about this most recent endeavor and we started january 1st reading our read through the bible in a year, those one year bibles and believe it or in 38 years of marriage, we have never done together consistently. But i can tell you that starting january 1st, up until, even today, we have read our bible together, the reading for that day and yesterdays was our favorite verse. Yeah. And was its jeremiah 2911 for i know the plans i have for you says the plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future. And that is just a verse we clung to so win or elections moving, changing jobs through everything in that verse has really carried us through. And i gave mike a, you know, a frame with that when we were heading to washington in 2000. Yeah. So im the mom of two grown daughters and theres a section in your book that really struck me so. Theres a lot of bible verses, but theres another where you actually talk about mom isms. And one of yours was teach your kids how to fight for their dreams by fighting for yours. I just absolutely love that. So thats charlottes favorite mom. Okay, good. And remember so i guess and maybe ties back to what we were talking about all night, but so your dream that youre fighting for. Well, i think for for me, a lot of times its. You know, things that i i love. If i pulled me away from mike for a little while, its teaching. And doing my watercolors and writing this book. You know, one of the great things us was, that when we went to washington, we decided to take our family with us and i was looking for a place where they could go to school. And i came this Christian School and went in and said, i would like to enroll all three of my kids. I knew we be moving because we were just starting out renting and see if we got before we board. And i said, you know, ive uprooted them. I dont want to put them in a public because theyll have to be uprooted again. When we change neighborhoods. And so i looked at the school and they said, oh, well, we dont we dont room we all of our classes are full. And i said, well, okay, im a teacher. You know, ive been there, our teacher at their school in so ill just probably and finish out the year and they said we need an hour teacher and i said great and it was wonderful because that allowed to have my own identity washington it wasnt the congressmans spouse. I was our teacher and mom and i knew all of their friends. I knew their teachers and i had an Immediate Community and so for me, i think they have seen me kind of fight for the things that i really love to and care about. You know when they were little, they they would come to my art fairs, you know, broad ripple art fair penrod fair in indiana and and they that im on my art fair days you know my mom was an artist and this was my day to kind of just be karen you know for a day and i think thats what i think the dreams i mean you might ask her that was ill tell you how that started the mom isms was it was E