The other would mandate regulations over brokerdealer conduct. Over in the senate, a period of general speeches beginning at 2 00 eastern followed at 4 30 with debate and procedural vote on the nomination of the general counsel of the National Labor relations board. Hes a former union lawyer who was a recess appointment to the board, but a federal Appeals Court ruled his appointment was invalid, and he was removed after about a year and a half. You can watch live gaveltogavel coverage of the house on cspan, the senate here on cspan2. Cspan, created by americas Cable Companies in 1979, brought to you as a Public Service by your television provider. Host this week on the communicators, we are joined by steven berry, president and ceo of the competitive carriers association. Mr. Berry, welcome. Guest oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. Host were also joined by paul of bloomberg bma, thanks for coming along too. Mr. Berry, to start with, the competitive carriers association, how do you describe it to friends . Guest well, i describe it as everyone other than the two largest wireless carriers. You know, theres over a hundred wireless carriers in the United States, and we represent from sprint, tmobile all the way down to, you know, the smallest carriers in the United States, and they may not be your normal household names, but in the area that they serve, theyre really important to the community. And theyre communitybased in Small Businesses, so we have a hundred carriers, some also outside the United States. And we also Service Almost 200 associate members. And thats the Small Businesses that make up the ecosystem that support wireless carriers throughout the United States. Host why is it important to have a service directed at those type of customers rather than go to a verizon or at t, carriers that a lot of people know about . Guest yeah. Most consumers like choice, and choice has many benefits to it including price points, and in the small areas, in the rural areas in the United States, in the regional markets, the small carrier may be the only carrier thats willing to build out that last mile or two miles or ten miles so that theres service to the population in that area. So theyre very cognizant of their constituent, their customer, and i think they distinguish themselves with really highvalue service. Host so you have a presence here in washington d. C. Why is that . Guest well, were in an advocacy organization. We represent the competitive carriers before the fcc, the hill, the executive branch. And we focus on policies that are really critical to their well being. Host so if you had to define, say, the top three policies of interest to you whether it be through the fcc or congress or whatever, what would those be . Guest well, competition is really the heart and soul of many of these issues. I would say interoperability which, hopefully, well talk about in a little while is very positive movement on that, but access. Access to spectrum, access to devices, access to networks, those are all going to be critical, critical inputs to allowing a competitive carrier to continue to thrive and actually provide customers with the type of services and unique quality of service that theyve become accustomed to. Host so well let paul pick it up from here. Thank you. So one of the the policy issues you mentioned was interoperability, device interop to rabbit. Why is that important to your members . Guest well, its a huge issue. Its something weve been fighting for for almost four years. And i guess interoperability, the easiest way to say it, its the ability for multiple carriers to be able to interface with each other with common devices that operate in the same spectrum. And, you know, the largest carriers, for example, at t and verizon, have scope and scale. They have the ability to go to the oems, the manufacturers and say i want this device built that operates on my spectrum. The smaller carriers in the past have always enjoyed the benefits of interoperability, and every slice of spectrum from the beginning of the wireless world. In 1984 and 1985 when the first 50 megahertz was split and given to incumbents and the new innovators, interoperability was a requirement. It was, continued to be a requirement in the aws spectrum, in the pcs spectrum, and i think we got away from sound not only business, but Public PolicySpectrum Management concept, interoperability, in this 700 megahertz spectrum auction of 2006. And its been critical to the small carriers, because if you dont have scope and scale were talking about some of these carriers that have, you know, fewer than a thousand or so customers in these rural areas you cant get devices, you cant provide service. So, and then be you have devices if you have devices that does not operate on the largest carriers networks, then you dont have a national footprint. Everyone, as small as they may be, has to provide a national product. You want wherever you travel, wherever you go in the United States, you want to make a call, youd like to make sure that that call goes through. Theres no reason, technological reason that that cant happen. But through Business Decisions of the largest carriers with their dominance in the marketplace, they can make decisions that that really impair small carriers from getting access to their networks and, obviously, they would not want to roam on the small carriers networks. And thats what were looking for, is a sound spectrum policy. Its a, you know, the spectrum is a taxpayerowned resource. And we believe it benefits the economy, benefits society as a whole if you have access to that resource in a way that is to the benefit of the consumer. Recently, at t agreed to voluntarily work towards interoperability in the 700 megahertz spectrum band which would allow your members customers to roam on at ts network and also allow your members to begin building out their lte device portfolio, the if you will. Guest right. Tell us about how this will, how in this will affect your members Going Forward. Is this a good solution at this point in. Guest i think its a very positive solution. I might quibble with you a little on voluntarily made the decision to move forward. I tell you, a lot of credit goes to chairwoman clyburn. I mean, had she not said that theres going to be a solution one way or the other and literally rolled up here sleeves, got in the middle of it, really a display of leadership to find a solution that was businessbased solution that would allow these smaller carriers to unleash the spectrum that they had already bought. You know, theres over 2 billion of spectrum that our guys, the smaller guys, purchased and they werent able to unleash that spectrum and actually provide services of 4g highspeed mobile Broadband Service throughout america. And commissioner clyburn, chairwoman clyburn said, no, were going to fix that. And with a lot of encouragement, we did. We found a solution. My hats off to her. It was a dilemma that really impeded the quality of service for many consumers all over the United States, and i think, i hope we learned something from that, that, you know, while you try to put interoperability back into the game plan of 700 megahertz, i hope that interoperability will be sort of the staple of the 600 megahertz auction that we think, the incentive auctions that are coming up. Host so was it the fact that the fcc actually did what it did, was it just a steppingstone to possible further regulation or possible direct action by the fcc before at t decided to voluntarily go ahead and do what their did . Guest i think that chairwoman clyburns statement that there had to be a solution was really the catalyst that said, okay, lets find a solution that works both for at t and the smaller carriers and does so in a fashion that is economically sustainable while we actually get to the ultimate result which is interoperability. So i do not think it would have happened without chairwoman clyburn getting personally involved. Host how did the commission treat in the past, this issue . Guest with a lot of neglect. I, im not particularly pleased the way it was addressed. The longer it went on, the more difficult it was to solve. Had there been when we filed the original petition, you know, the notice of proposed rulemaking came out, but when we filed the original petition, had the fcc acted then, it would have been far easier to say, no, we meant interoperability. When the auction was created theres a little back story. When the auction occurred, everyone thought there was going to be interoperability. It always had been in the past. And at t and verizon went to the standardsetting body, the place called the 3gpp, and it sets the standards, you know, technology standards, and they went to that body and said we want standards that are unique to our particular band. So they created their own boutique band plan, and the fcc was asleep at the switch on that. There was not sound auction management. They allowed the private sector, in this case the two largest carriers, to uniquely classify the spectrum in ways that, essentially, foreclosed other smaller carriers from getting access to devices, the entire ecosystem that supports that 4g, lte, you know, the next generation technology. Host who was the chairperson at the time . Guest when it started out, chairman martin, and then genachowski. Genachowski, i met with him on numerous occasions. I brought our ceos in, our companies in. We showed them the facts, and it was chairwoman clyburn from the get go said this is not what we expected. We need to fix this. And so im absolutely delighted that she was good for her word. And are you confident that this development between at t and other industry players, this agreement of sorts could become the norm for interoperability in other spectrum bands . Guest i hope that, like i said, that weve learned something from this, and i hope that interoperability will be sort of the trademark of blocks of spectrum thats made available as we go forward. And the 600 megahertz is critical to every carrier out there. Its propagations, values and characteristics that penetrates buildings, goes long distances in rural areas. In the urban areas, you need it to get into the basements and the hardtoreach areas. So i hope that weve made some progress there. I think i would say i know many people at the fcc realized how difficult it was to, like i say, sort of put Humpty Dumpty back together, so hopefully this time we will have interoperability from the get go. And you mentioned the competition issues surrounding spectrum policy, and the fcc is right now in the throes of finalizing rules for the firstever incentive auction of spectrum which involves the broadcasters selling spectrum to the fcc and the fcc in turn selling the spectrum to wireless carriers. Should the fcc restrict the participation of the largest carriers in the auction . Well, i think the fcc the congress got it right when they authorized the fcc to create a competitive auction. And now the fcc has to take that mandate and create a competitive auction. Our belief is that every carrier should be able to bid in this auction. Large carriers and small carriers. At t and verizon and all our members, sprint, tmobile, everyone. And we should be able to bid in that spectrum auction with widesized, geographicsized licenses so that the smallest carriers are not, you know, forced out of the auction because they cant afford huge blocks of spectrum. And with that we believe that every carrier should be able to bid. Now, even right here at this table just a few weeks ago commissioner rosenworcel said that she believed no one or two carriers should be able to walk away with the entire spectrum auction. I totally agree. I believe the fcc has the authority and has the, you know, hopefully the will power to insure that not one or two carriers can walk away with the entire pie. I mean, the fact of the matter is spectrum is the life blood for the wireless carrier, and if youre a small carrier in Rural America and you dont have enough spectrum to deploy a robust 4g lte technology, then youre at a economic disadvantage. And youre not going to be able to compete. And, you know, one of the things people have not focused on is that same act, that middle class tax relief act of 2012, actually insured in there that the competition and preserving and promoting competition was one of the requirements of the fcc. So i hope they take it to heart, and, you know, chairwoman clyburn and the new chairperson coming in, many tom wheeler mr. Tom wheeler, testify a real challenge to create a framework for competitive policies. Host you said the word hope twice when referencing this. What makes you are you skeptical, and what makes you, you know, think that wont happen the way youd like to see it happen . Guest well, you know, we just went through four years of pretty aggressive efforts to insure that we return the 700 megahertz to interoperability, and were going to work very assiduously to make sure that the 600 is interoperable. And i believe the framework that im talking about is critical if youre going to have multiple choices in the marketplace for the consumer. And, you know, we its a tough road to hoe. Its, you know, making sure that we have access to spectrum, making sure that theres a fair, responsible way to get access to the networks. This is ip transition. You know, i think commissioner ajit pai was quoted in his confirmation hearing as saying that there was no reason why the basic, underlying concepts of connectivity should be changed just because of technology. And so we agree with that. And the reason why i say hope is at least two companies out there that have taken positions that are fairly disparate to the position weve taken on all those issues. And, you know, we start from the position that none of us really like overburdensome regulations. But if youre going to enjoy the benefits of a competitive market, then you have to at least have the referee on the field, you know, blowing the whistle when theres not a, you know, a fair, you know, assessment of Public Policy that insures a competitive marketplace. Host you talked about chairwoman clyburn before, do you think shell show a strong hand in this case as well . Guest i think shes a very proconsumer, you know, person at heart. And before she was chairwoman and during and im sure after shes going to continue to have the same convictions. And i think the new chairman coming in, tom wheeler, so inclined also. I mean, hes i was lucky enough to have the opportunity to work for him for six years. I ran the legislative shop for him when he was at another trade association. And i think he will be very proactive, and i think on the policy side, on the competition side hes for competition in the marketplace and proconsumer. Host youre watching the communicators. Our guest, steven berry, of the competitive carriers association. He serves as president and ceo. Also joining us for the discussion, Paul Barbagallo of bloomberg. For the past decade, you have seen the Wireless Industry undergo consolidation. Weve seen smaller carriers partner with other smaller carriers, bigger carriers partner with other bigger carriers, weve seen secondary market transactions. Do you see this trend of industry consolidation continuing . Guest thats a tough question. Yes and no, and the yes is, you know, one of the reasons most of the consolidation one of the reasons its occurring is the lack of spectrum availability. I mean, its been almost since 2006 since we had any spectrum come to the marketplace. It will be a decade, essentially, before we had the last low band spectrum come available. And i think that puts a lot of pressure on especially the leaders in the market to insure that they need to top off their tank. And when they do that, they seem to pick on some of the larger tier ii carriers. If you look at the marketplace, weve lost, you know, a half a dozen tier ii carriers in the marketplace that have been value priced providers, have been innovators in the market. The first 4g lte network was not rolled out by at t and verizon. The first all you can eat packages, i think, were sprint. The innovative all you can talk on the weekends and the flat rate prices, those were all innovators. And it does disturb me that, you know, weve lost four or five tier ii carriers in the last 12 months. If you look back to eight or ten years ago, you know, you had a very healthy tier ii market, and there wasnt this huge disparity between the size of the largest two carriers and the other carriers. For the smaller carriers, that meant you have choices to roam with. You had partners that you could buy handsets with. You had access to the critical inputs needed to run a wireless, you know, business. And so, yes, it concerns me greatly. And, you know, we have to think about, i mean, how far do you want in the to go . Want this to go . You look at, you know, two wireless carriers control almost 70 of the market. The two largest automobile makers, they control 35 . Two largest banks control 20 . Huge difference. In the market share. And what will happen is in those areas that are the least profitable and in instances that means its the rural and regional markets, there wont be, you know, a lot of incentive to build out that network. And provide that service to the customers in Rural America. We did a study about a year or so ago that showed that in Rural America if you were to build out rural highspeed broadband, it would create in i think the 14 states that had less than 90 penetration over 100,000 jobs alone. But the interesting thing was it showed that you would increase Median Income in the state by as much as 5 . 4. 5, 5 normally. So what were talking about is Economic Growth, were talking about jobs, and i would say that most of our carriers even the largest two of our carriers are Small Businesses in respects. Host how are those tier iii carriers then changing their Business Models or Business Plans to remain competitive . Guest well, thats a good question and, quite frankly, youve t got to get to the 4g lte net