Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20160908 :

CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings September 8, 2016

Political prop is. So i think the Faith Based Community is finding its voice. We have also three usaid given a 6 million grant to the south Sudan Council of churches to work on communitybased reconciliation offers. So we are engaging the Faith Based Community. I think of the many meetings that ive had with religious leaders in south sudan after the outbreak of fighting in december 2013th, they showed a lot of frustration and have turned a ear to them. I think they are beginning now to find their voice in unison and it may become harder going forward. The opposition people refused to get out of the vehicles and they sped off and the soldiers fired at those vehicles. The opposition Security Officials in the vehicles fired back and killed i believe five government soldiers right in that very vinty. So it was a very intense environment. There were a lot more soldiers out on the street after that incident. And our cars came along, and they were, it wasnt a formal check point. It was a lot of soldiers on the street waiting them down. It was very dark and our vehicles have tinted glass. So even though for the brief time that they stopped and tried to showed identification, it was not clear soldiers would have been able to see it or frankly understand the license plates. Youre dealing with, dont forget, with an army primary illiterate and so when our vehicles, according to standard operating procedures, when they tried to open the doors of our cars, also sped off. The soldiers he opened fire, just as they had when it happened with opposition vehicles. And again, shortly again, in the same area shortly after that incident the Country Representative for unesco, egyptian national, was driving in the area and encountered a similar problem. Because he was not in an Armored Vehicle he was seriously wounded. To say this is targeting americans, we did not deduce that from the circumstances. And the Regional Security officer working with Diplomatic Security back in washington conducted an internal investigation of the events and, thats a, the review of that report is still ongoing. And, we were very thankful of course that our people had resources, that we had fully Armored Vehicles for them to right around juba. Why our security protocols for them to be riding in Armored Vehicles, in most parts of town, particularly after dark. In response to that incident, the embassies Emergency Action committee met the next morning and changed the curfew to a dawn to dusk. So took appropriate actions to try to mitigate that. In terms of sanctions let me just say yes, we share the frustration. I mentioned some of the difficulties actually putting together packages that meet all the legal criteria but we certainly will look at taking actions against those who continue to impede the Peace Process, are hindering humanitarian delivery and the like. Yes, i just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge that there are several people here from gabon who are expressing their concern about the elections that took place. I just want you to know that we see you. We read your posters. I know you were asked to put them down but we did see what they said. And we also are concerned and i just wanted to acknowledge that your presence has not gone unnoticed. And i fully concure with the Ranking Member. Thank you for being here. I would like to yield to mr. Meadows. Ambassador, let me come back with two very quick points. I mentioned the ngos. Technology is a great thing. I got information that would suggest that, even within the last few hours or few days, that there has been potentially the shutdown of 40 ngos. And the threat, if not reality of seizing their assets. Are you aware of that report . We have received reports over the past several hours of harrassment of a number of ngos of Civil Society. You say that report could be accurate . You are getting the same. It could be. Well look back and verify it. Could you get back to this committee right away whether that is accurate or not. I guess the second followup to that question, if it is accurate will you be resolute in your condemnation of same and we will not tolerate that kind of behavior if our humanitarian aid is going to continue . I can assure you, congressman, that we will be very direct and very strong in condemnation of any harrassment of seizing of assets, more than just harrassment. So that is my concern. So will you commit to get back to this committee within the next seven Business Days to let us know what is happening on that . Well get back to you as soon as we can confirm it. What is reasonable time . If seven days is not reasonable what is reasonable time . 14 days . Give us 14 days, please. 14 days. Well do that. The last thing is this, as you talk about a political environment which is open and inclusive and yet were hearing reports that potentially some one took a letter to the u. N. Security council and might have been murdered after that. Would you care to comment on whats happening since the u. N. Security couldnt sill visit . Well some of this harrassment of Civil Society that murder is more than harrassment. That weve been hearing about, has been subsequent to the visit by the Security Council but it is something that has gone on in the past as well. We have long been how much of that are we going to tolerate . Press freedom and freedom of movement for ngos and the like. How much of that are we going to tolerate . Well, it is a matter what we can actually do to effect that affect that behavior. I yield back. We have many leverage points. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for your flexibility. Thank you, ambassador booth for your leadership and spending your time today before us at the subcommittee. Thank you. I would like to invite the witness table. Senior advisor to the president S United States institute for peace. Ambassador lyman served aspects envoy for sudan and south sudan from march 2011 and to march 2013. He led u. S. Policy and led timely mentation of the 2005 comprehensive Peace Agreement. Ambassador lymans career, secretary of state for african affairs, u. S. Ambassador to both nigeria and south africa. And assistant secretary of state for international organizations. He is also a member of the African Advisory Committee to the u. S. Trade representative. Began his career with usaid and served as its director in ethiopia. Well hear from brian udebe. Journalist by trade, with a sympathy tank that focused on Security Sector reform in fragile countries. Over the last three years his Research Interests focus on linkages of media interest, conflict and security. He covered zones in darfur, blue nile and Eastern Sudan for the e boston based i hadcation centers and Sudan Radio Service project in nairobi, kenya. Prior to this he served as project and publications coordinator at the think tank, center for International Governance innovation in waterloo, canada. He is representing the enough project. Ambassador, please proceed. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman and let me begin thanking you personally for all the support you and the committee provided when i was. When i was special envoy and you and congressman bass and members the committee to continue to focus attention on these set of issues. It is very important and it is very much appreciated. Im not going to go over the background of the situation. I want to address some key questions you raised and raised in the previous exchange. Let me start with the peace plan itself around which the various activities are organized. The egad peace plan signed in 2015 on paper is a very comprehensive agreement, but it has a fatal flaw to it. And that is, it rests very largely on the willingness and ability and commitment of the very antagonists who brought the country into civil war to carry out a fundamental political transformation. It is not in their interests to do so. And, what weve seen over the last year or so year or so, instead of carrying that forward, they fell back into conflict and now bashar has been driven out of the country. Without a Strong International oversight and administrative oversight of this program, it was not likely to succeed. The second problem that we now face is that it would be a mistake to assume that with the accession of dang to the vicepresidency we have a government of national unity. He does not command the loyalty of all the various forces that were fighting with this government and to assume it is capable of carrying out a comprehensive and being ininclusive would be wrong. Its not. Now we have the the humanitarian crisis which people have addressed. It is outrage just situation. The United States spending alone over a billion dollars a year. Over 58 workers have been killed trying to carry out a humanitarian program. That they have been attacked and most recently in the Terrain Hotel. That the International Community seems to care more for the people of south sudan than the leaders on both sides. That is outrageous, situation. It calls into question whether the government can claim to the rights and responsibility of sovereignty which goes with the claim of sovereignty. Now recently, kate home quist, as congressman sissel lien knee mentioned and myself said there should be International Administration and oversight of south sudan. Without that we do not see how the peace plan can go forward. Ambassador booth described the role of jmac under the peace plan and the role of festus. The fact that mechanism last no Real Authority over the parties. Festus himself had said in several reports said almost no progress has been made implementing the Peace Process. The proposal would be extraordinarily difficult to do. And ambassador booth indicated that but here is the fundamental question. Here is the fundamental question and the fundamental challenge. The Peace Process in is in the hands of egad and the Africanamerican Community primarily and if they are not prepared to amend the current Peace Process to create a true Oversight Authority which they will back up politically and back up by enforcing an arms embargo, by taking other measures then that peace plan wont work. If theyre prepared to do that, no one needs trusteeship or anything else but the promisee gadd is badly divided igad. They have threatened an arms embargo many times and never threatened or follow through. For the u. N. Security council we have an addage that guides practicality. When africans are divided Security Council is divide. You will not get sanctions through russia and china unless the africans are united and say this is what we want and the africans are divided and igad is divided. Even if the u. N. Security council would pass an arms embargo, the surrounding countries would have to implement it to make sure arms are not sneaking through or being violated. So the primary attention effort seems to me for the African Union and for igad to decide exactly if they are in control of this process, how to strengthen it. Let me just come to this question of the 4,000 troops that are being added. As you pointed out, it is a question of putting these under and whether they will act differently. It is very difficult to contemplate a u. N. Peacekeeping force confronting in an armed way the forces of the host government. I dont think many u. N. Forces are prepared for that. I dont think even the Security Council is prepared for it. The question is this force going to have the mandate to confront not just outlyers but an attack like the Terrain Hotel complex and go up against Government Forces . That is a very difficult thing to do, and it has to be backed solidly by the troopcontributing countries and iigad. If theyre not prepared for that, the force may secure the airport but they wont be able to protect civilians. Now the other question is the political context, putting them back, putting more forces into juba without changing the nature of the Peace Processer and the way its inapp enforced seems to me will have a continuation of the situation we now have. So i think it is critical that the u. S. , the International Community, the United Nations call upon African Union and the igad to strengthen that process so there is a real oversight and enforcement of the Peace Process with sanctions and punishment for those who get in the way of it, otherwise we wont get the transformation we need and i think thats the great dilemma that we now face in south sudan. Thank you very much. Ambassador lyman, thank you again and thank you for your Prior Service aspects envoy. Mr. Endeba. Chairman smith, Ranking Member bass, members of the subcommittee, i want to thank you for your continued focus on south sudan and for inviting me to testify. Impunity is entrenched in the system of rule in south sudan. The horrific Terrain Hotel incident is an example of that impunity. The countrys leaders commit horrific crimes and treat state resources like their personal property. The countrys money is captured by a few and used to wage war. With Financial Leverage on these leaders and your continued leadership and support it is possible to counter the system and the perverse inclinations of its leaders. It is possible to disrupt access to the process of corruption that fund war and to shift the incentives of south sudans leaders to a peace. Congress can do the following four things to have Immediate Impact on the perpetrators of the crisis in south sudan. First, congress can make sure that the u. S. Treasury department has the staff and the funds it needs to use more antimoney laundering measures. The measures can be used to target and freeze the assets of elite politicians and leaders in south sudan who perpetuate violence, loot public coffers and use International Financial system, including u. S. Institutions to launder the profits of their illgot enwealth. Second you can insure the administration imposes targeted sanctions and asset freezes on top leaders and support others who take these measures. Weve had discussion about how the threat of sanctions alone is not inducing the change needed in south sudan. So when we look at this recommendation, this is a call to action. Third, you can push for stronger endorsement of existing sanctions and asset freezes in the United States and internationally on the south sudanese political elite. Fourth, you can pass the global mag knit city human rights accountability act. This act authorizing the u. S. President to impose sanctions on government officials like those in south sudan who misappropriate state assets and attack anticorruption crusaders. I believe these four steps can strike directly at wallets of people that are suffering in south sudan, people that commit crimes and enrich themselves because they believe they will not face consequences for their actions. These leaders are more likely to support peace when they pay a price for war. The institutional challenges in south sudan require your longterm support as well. I traveled to juba to analyze this very issue. April was a month full of hope by president and main Opposition Leader had returned to town. People believed that the fighting would stop and the two leaders would Work Together to govern. There was hope that the critical governance institutions could begin to function properly as well. I focused my research on three key institutions. The anticorruption commission, the National Audit chamber and the Public Accounts Committee in the National Legislative assembly. I found that all three were severely undercut intentionally. Top level politicians deprived them of money they need to function, conflicting laws prevent prosecutions of officials that have been investigated, and cronyism undermines the effort to fight graft. The mechanisms and institutions that could promote accountability do not have what they need to be effective. But there are several Things Congress can do to help south sudanese people address their institutional and systemic challenges. First, continue to support the people in south sudan who fight for transparency and accountability. Listen to them. Stand with them and help them raise their voices. Second, insure there is strict budget oversight for assistance to south sudan. Those who commit, those who command and commit atrocities and seek personal enrichment should not be able to misappropriate public funds especially those given by americans to support the south sudanese people. Third, support and strengthen institutions in south sudan that can build open and accou

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