How do you measure success . We can prove what our collection posture is, what our detection posture and every trooper, texas ranger, special agent in the vehicle, on the phone, has a gpslocating device. I can proof any time what is our coverage right then and there and one of the postures is that Border Patrol needs the same capability. You would expect that they would know if not just for a security standpoint be able to defend in terms of exactly what the Security Posture is, officer safety issue. As you know, Border Patrol agents are threatened in the roy Rio Grande River. Thatll change. Until that time, the texas border prosecutors have stepped up the plate as well as texas rangers. We will investigate every one of those and prosecute in the state level until the froth prosecutes those cases. So we are trying to build a record here on the committee as to how to move forward with all of this. Texas has a unique challenge with the rio grande. You cant build a wall in the river, you can build a levy. I think its actually symbolic saying the wall, symbolic for a physical barrier but a multilayer defense using all available assets using technology, aviation and fencing. I throw this to all of you, how would you best describe the wall to finally achieve security in the border. Our legislature demanded that we do have a way to measure success beyond numbers. You have seen what we have come up. Theres things that have to be in place. From a texas standpoint, a wall, all are obstacles. Absence the personnel, technology, things that the judge talked about, maybe the removal of salt, cedar and cane, it is an obstacle, not a barrier. The cartels will go under, around it, over it to meet demand for drug and certainly in the u. S. Obstacle not a barrier. It is a barrier when you have enough Border Agents or detection technology. Today, you get to see a picture of it. You dont have to get that its a sensor, fourlegged creature. You know that by looking at it. Theres no reason not to Leverage Technology available. Sheriff martinez. I agree with colonel, a fence is just a barrier but i think more importantly is a the manpower initially to get the manpower, let me tbif you an example, in my county theres 80 miles, i have one deputy to cover that country. There is on a good days 215 Border Control which consists of 8,000 square thousand miles which will go all the way to crockett and sutton county. Its like a needle in a hay stack, manpower in that rugged geographical area in the state of texas. So manpower in combination with a physical barrier with Strategic Technology will go a long way. I will tell you that in yuma county we had to do a con conglomeration of all of that. I have two tribal reservations which is sovereign land. So i think in each and every location, much like the general talked about today, secretary, he needs to go down, ascertain from those different geographic locations what is needed best. It could be a fence, it could be vehicle barriers, it could be just electronic infrastructure such as radar operated camera systems or detection radars or lasers, they need to approach that with boots on the ground in order to address that. Would access to federal lands help . Absolutely. Wuting in the fence, utilizing our national guard. We worked with our tribal partners and we were able to do the brush clearing much like we asked about before because it was along the colorado corridor and opened up recreational areas for the yuma citizens to be able to enjoy again versus the criminal element that was so often exploiting that illegal contraband across the river. Justice trevino. Im in the listening phase because i rely on what Law Enforcement has to tell us and i had to opportunity to meet with local Sheriffs Department and Border Sector, and the thing surprising to me that they were not able to utilize and be on federal parkland, National Parkland in order to do their surveillance and investigation. The other part of the equation was the fact that much of the technology is already several decades old while still operational its no where near effective of the advance that the technology has provide today Law Enforcement. We need to upgrade. The other part of this that they we wanted to utilize in conjunction with the Technology Upgrade is that allow it is boots on the ground much more direct and quicker response because the people operating the technology or the uavs, whatever thats intelled, would be in better position to direct boots on the ground to where the impact is going to be. I think we are all in agreement that the Resources Available to update technology and boots on the ground is something absolutely needed and if i may quick i will say, you mentioned that 10 years ago you first started and you were prosecutor you wanted to have the border secured. If we really utilized a clear definition for secure border, i dont know we can ever achieve that. The reality is as long as theres a criminal element, as long as theres human activity, they are do everything they with to provide the product whether its drug or Human Trafficking or whatever the case might be, but its safe to say that the border is definitely much more secure today than it was decade ago or 20 years ago and i think thats important for the rest of the country to understand that because we are able to live our lives, goodquality life on the border as a result of the gentlemen to my right and all Law Enforcement officials that are operating still back home. Thank you, you have given us a excellent record testimonial as we move forward with our order supplemental bill as to whats effective and whats not. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its been a long time that we had a panel of people that live the issue every day. I think its been quite enlightening. The question that a lot of us have, why not come up with a sound policy that addresses Border Security rather than coming up with a product in terms of the fence and, i think, just about every one has said, there are ways that fencing might be good, there are other ways that technology, there are other ways of using other things might be good, but when you come with a onesize fits allmodel, that creates some real challenges, the Rio Grande River, lakes, tribal lands, i guess the question is what im hearing from the witnesses and i heard from the secretary in his testimony, that you will be involved in the process. Soar than washington coming to your communities and say, well, big brother is here, we have the solution, we would say what do you think, you do this every day, you live it. What suggestions or recommendations that you might have and i think thats a very good model for us to to adopt because in washington we can just see one part. So, ford, we are 1500 persons short in the approved cbp allotment for boots on the ground and i think weve been two years, three years . About two years trying to complete that. So if we get 5,000 more, that means we have 6,500 vacancies that you cant fill. So part of what we are going to have to do is try to work with state and locals to figure out since we cant put all the boots on the ground, having trouble filling it, how to we backfill it. Technology. You know, if we can see somebody five, ten, 20 miles away approaching an area, then if we have the ability to communicate with local Law Enforcement or whomever, we can perhaps move the assets to that area from an interdiction standpoint and i would for the sheriffs specially. Are you allowed to train with cbp and other federal officials in a manner that gives you confident or some things that you like to see being done thats not being done . Sheriff martinez. Sir, thank you for the question. We work very well with our federal partners. We dont train with them. Basically we if we come across a crime that has an otm or mexican national, we refer those individuals to Border Control. We work through stone garden. The last week we had eight referrals in our sectorsor. So i take it that thats from the the locals referring someone over to our federal partners and they take over from there. But going onto some of your question, i like you say your miles away but i like to invite each and every one of you to our communities where we live every they, not to dont show up when they have all the manpower and resources. Visit us in our natural state and you can see all the deficiencies that we have. Thatll be a big impact on what happens up here, on your votes up here. Sheriff. Thank you, sir, i will tell you that our agency trains quite a bit with the u. S. Border patrol, yuma sector under chief and we have awesome lines of communication, most of our training has to do with search and rescue type or narcotics interdiction. The other hamper that we are running into with the sheriffs all across the United States right now is actually getting some sort of legal opinion in regards to 287 in our jails, some places along the u. S. Are being sued for Fourth Amendment rights. We are being told that we have to honor them by federal law but we are also being told state that you cannot honor that because youre violating this law or that law, whether its arizona, texas, new york, illinois, idaho, so the sheriffs as a whole, the one thing that we need is some sort of legal opinion in regards to honoring detainers for the jails. Thats one of the things that is a Significant Impact for us when an individual is our jails. Typically for us they are booked in the jail, they go through state process, they get sentenced to prison and they are turned over to the state for doc. And thats something that all the sheriffs across the u. S. , and we articulated to the secretary yesterday. So, thank you, judge, in your everyday duties, what Security Issues would you be concerned about and do you see the wall as an answer to those Security Issues from your standpoint . Thanks for the question, congressman. Let me point out with regard to cameroon and Hidalgo County we have 64 miles of fencing in fence. We are looking at another 5,000, 6500, let me tell you how that impacts locally, the gentlemen to my right, their responsibility is to write local Law Enforcement to the community that they serve, because of the change in dynamics in our country, theyve also had to become qasi federal agents because of the command being placed on them with regard to Border Security. And the concern i have, just for the record, the jointy judge in texas is in the a judicial position and its not administration position. Its basically the mayor of the county. I work with all of the agencies in that endeavor, and the concern that i would have and i can tell you that in the valley, many Law Enforcement agencies, whether local Police Departments or jailers, we have lost individuals to the federal government because of demand to federal agents, border customs than what have you because they pay more lan Law Enforcement agencies. We rely on low property tax to fund our budgets. As a result of that, in addition to the jail costs associated that the sheriff alluded to, we have the medical costs associated to take care of them while in custody. So all of these what i referred to earlier, we dont have an immense back load or a Rainy Day Fund that could help us get through the days, we are i think to the best that we can and i think that something as the if Congress Takes us into account, they have to understand that the demands placed upon our local entities and jurisdictions on the texmex border are so different than the demands placed elsewhere in the country. When we are asking for those funds and resources, we are not doing because we want them, we are asking because we need them, we are already performing the job and obviously if there is a big increase on boots on the ground which we all agree is necessary, the concern we are going to have is we are going to need those funds ourselves to make sure that our local positions are well met. I dont like hearing the fact, i know about a situation like that that we have an officer patrolling 84 square miles, you know what that means, he cant be everywhere at one time. I yield back. You cant understand it unless you go down to see it and i always advocate for members to do that. Theres no real simplistic answer to this. Its multifaceted. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, very briefly, you know, some people dont like the terminology the wall to whether its a wall, whether its a fence, unmanned vehicles or sensors or comar es or whatever, some protection belt along the border that keeps incursions from happening, i think we need that, but it begins with an attitude that you want to uphold the law and defend the border of the country and sovereign nation and so with that, you mentioned that one of the things that you saw problem with was the federal government is not prosecuting people here illegally that assault Border Patrol agents. Can you talk about that very quickly with a little more depth to it . Well, i can actually give you the example, the cases, i will get back to you on what they are. The normal process when i was in the fbi, we use today work federal assault on federal officers in those cases, when i was in tucson thats what we did. Alexander was killed by two drug traffickers from mexico. Over the last several months, that hasnt been the case, theres been no prosecution. They have been turned down. We had the advantage because state legislature funded the border, hey f Border Patrol agents are being assaulted and not prosecuted and texas in law and order state, you assault a police officer, there has to be con swenses, they take the cases and all we are doing is using state resources to investigate cases and turn it over. He said over the last couple of months. I will give you the exact time and exact cases that we work for them. Why would they not do that . I dont know. That was brought to secretary kellys point, took the time, secretary johnson, secretary napolitano, secretary rich, hes taking taking the time to went down there and asked questions for very specific and brief. I have no doubt and he took it back with them that hes going to talk to the attorney general about them. That will be fixed. Im confident that will be addressed. I would think its a minimum standard so that Border Patrol agents know that theres going to be a penalty for assaulting as there should be for any Law Enforcement officer anywhere in the United States. Turning quickly to federal parklands, can you give us an indication, i dont think a lot of people realize that theres a restriction for Border Patrol agents in those circumstances, can you give us some information from your viewpoint on how that affects the ability, the federal government there are several pockets that would protect Rio Grande River or cartels because they are heavens for hiding. Border patrol are allowed access but not infrastructure or use tools to use to be able pursue smugglers into those areas. It toweled take an hour to get into the area or could be 10 minutes. So we are hopeful that that would be addressed. It sounds if we are serious about securing the border, something has to change. Sucks the water out and works for the cartels. Right. Sheriff wilmont, the operation stone Garden Program and your trouble getting money through fema is something that you would need to elaborate on and as you put to nonsanctuary cities which, i think, is important to note, at least i get from this that sanctuary cities are receiving money for inviting people to be in their city illegally but also getting federal funds in that regard; is that correct, if you can elaborate . Well, we we wanted to get across is you have an entity that runs a jail that supports that and that funding should be given to those other entities that run the jail that are actually doing the job. Ly tell you that we still need to get 100 reimbursement as well as the medical costs associated with it because i cant put in for an individual who i have to take to dialysis three times a week that is impacting our budget a hundred thousand dollars for one person. I had 117 backpackers that went through my jail, i sent a bill to the attorney general of the United States last year because of the tollsies that went into effect on not prosecuting these individuals. The attorney general owes me 1. 8 million. Does the government south of you, the National Government south of you, do they spend anywhere near the resources or have the same diligence that you have in patrolling the border from their people going north ward. To answer your question with regards to yuma county, i will tell you that we have great crossborder communication with our Law Enforcement counterparts, we Work Together a lot on both sides of the border, thats why we were able to do what we did to tear up that criminal enterprise from doing what they were doing in 0506. Its a perception that the Mexican Government doesnt feel as strongly controlling the border, north of the border as we do and i dont know if thats accurate or not but i get that perception, my concern is all the american taxpayers are paying for this because you are out the money because the american taxpayers cant afford to pay for it. What is the government to the