From dr. Matthew dumont. Matt is prolific author and historian of history and civil rights and the Sherman Fairchild distinguished professor history at dartmouth. He he received his ph. D. From brown university, and hell be discussing most recent book, half american the epic story of africanamericans fighting in World War Two at home and abroad. Now to, join this this conversation this discussion is dr. Marcus cox marcus is a fellow with the jenny craig institute. And is also currently the dean of Fayetteville State University right outside beautiful fort north carolina. Oh the. Previously many of you know him from town here where hes associate dean of graduate studies xavier and a graduate ph. D. From northwestern an and an expert on africanamerican military history. And so its great to have these two amazing scholars and comrades on the stage with us today. And with that, marcus, ill turn it over to you. And sir, you much. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody for being here. Thank you, mike. And everyone, this is a great opportunity to learn a little bit more about whats happening in the United States and in particular what africanamericans. Im honored and very privileged to be up here with dr. Matthew delmont. Matt is going to start off and do a brief overview of his, and then im going to up with some few questions of my own, and then were going to open it up to the audience. So thank you very much being here, matt. Thanks for joining. Good afternoon, everybody. Let me start by saying how much of a privilege is to be here and thank mike and marcus for the nice introductions before being at dartmouth college, i was at arizona State University, set up to work with our colleagues at the National Museum and the really wonderful online masters in World War Two studies that theyve launched. And its been thrilling to see it develop. Even ive moved to dartmouth and i want to thank nick mueller for being kind enough to write an endorsement of new book. Thank you, nick. And i thank you. The audience being the last few days has been inspiring for me as a historian to be in the company of people who love history and love the history of World War Two. Its tremendous. And so i would give you a round of applause for everything youre doing. Yeah. To learn and this history. And then take about 10 minutes at the start here and give a kind of high level overview of the key arguments in. My new book that just came out last month, its called half american the epic story of africanamericans fighting water to at home and abroad. Id like to start with what led me to the project. So my last book project was africanamerican newspapers, so i was going through historic newspapers like the chicago defender, pittsburgh courier and. One thing that struck me is when you look at the papers from the war years, you come across images like these this is from the minneapolis spokesman, which is the largest and longest running black in minnesota, where im from. These pictures are the kind of things id never really seen before. Im a historian of taught history of over to african history more than a decade. But these kind of everyday photos of the black men and women, more than a million who volunteered were drafted. The military seeing these everyday average photos. It really blew me away. It made me curious because i came across first dozens of these and eventually hundreds. I started to wonder what more could be there . What more do we know about the black perspective on World War Two . Just about seven years ago, it sparked my curiosity led me to research this new book. The title of the book, half american, is taken from a letter. This man, james g. Thompson wrote. James thompson was a 26 year old in wichita, kansas. He writes a letter to the pittsburgh courier, which was the largest and most influential black and has a series of very pressing, probing questions, including should i sacrifice my life, live half american is america i know worth defending. And one thing i think about here is, the famous quote from historian stephen ambrose, who helped found and tried the vision, the museum. He said, one of the foundational ironies of World War Two is that the worlds greatest democracy, america went to fight the worlds greatest racist hitler with the third great army. Men and women like James Thompson were living irony. Hes writing this letter in december of 1941, after the of pearl harbor, knowing that he is about to get drafted into a segregated military, hes going to be asked to fight for potentially die for a country that doesnt yet treat him as a full citizen. And just to ground ourselves. Remember that the entirety of the war, the is segregated in the army. Initially black men cant serve in theyre put in to supply the disco rolls in the navy black men are only allowed to serve as mass attendance will serve officers aboard ships at the start of the war. The marine corps isnt allowing any americans to serve. Its that until you get the war, they get the Montford Point marines, the first group of marines, everything in military life is segregated down to the barracks, latrines, the dining facilities. The red cross is even segregating blood from blood donors, even though theres no scientific basis to do that. So thompson is asking a really powerful question matters to him and matters to hundreds of thousands of other black americans. The pittsburgh courier uses thompsons letter to launch what they call the Double Victory Campaign double d and becomes the rallying cry for black americans during the war. Theyre fighting for victory over abroad and victory over in home. Ec one of thing thats important is that its not just a rhetorical device. Its not just a slogan. Black people really need it. They really this as a two front battle. They want to do everything they can to help defend their country, to help win the military. But they know thats not enough. Its not enough to fight for freedom and democracy abroad and then come home to segregation, to come home second class citizenship. And so thats why i chose half america as the title, because it really speaks to what was on the minds of black americans at the time. Theres three key arguments that the book makes the is that from the africanAmerican Perspective, you have to start the chronology of World War Two before pearl harbor. This is not dissimilar to argument that Richard Overy makes in blood, in ruins if you looked at a black newspaper from the 1930s 30 to 3334, you see dozens of articles in editorials about the of fascism in europe. Black americans were among the first to recognize the really serious that hitler and the nazis posed not just to europe, but really to the world. Black newspapers covered mussolini and the italian invasion of ethiopia, 1935, and then they cover the spanish civil war and the rise of general franco. And so years before pearl harbor, black americans have already turned their focus to the se of the war in europe and are explicitly the Second World War has started and theyre eager to the fight against fascism. Langston hughes, the poet, is actually a war correspondent for the baltimore africanamerican, and he travels to spain to report on the more than 80 black americans who volunteered fight in t spanish civil war. And his primary question is why . One of the people he profiles is a woman, solaria kei. Shes a 23 year old from harlem who approached her life, travels spain, a country shes never been to before, to be a nurse, to help, help. People are being wounded in the spanish civil war. Im on the front lines when hes asked key and others, why did they go to spain . He says it was three things for her. The first is that shes a catholic. She self particularly political, but she saw a country in which people were in dire, dire of help and she had to help as a catholic and as a nurse, the thing is that she was deeply troubled by the italian invasion of ethiopia in 35. This was a huge deal. Black people in the United States, ethiopia was the only independent nation in africa in the 1930s, and for italy to invade it sent shockwaves across the country. And so she was motivated by that. And then thirdly she recognizes that the rise of fascism isnt just a danger to europe. She and others say, you know, this may be going on in spain now, maybe in germany now, but eventually its going to come. United states, we cant just treat this as a a foreign problem if they cant take a position of isolationism. So she is one of 80 who goes to fight in the spanish civil war. And so my book opens with that chapter trying to understand why these black americans went there. And so its important to start story before pearl harbor, the the second argument the book makes is that we have take seriously the military contributions of black troops. Its not enough to have them on the periphery of the story. We have to have them at the center of the story. Perhaps the most famous black american to serve during the war is doris miller, who emerges as one of the heroes of pearl harbor. Hes a mess attendant on the uss virginia. And as the ship is being torpedoed and bombed in the japanese attack on pearl harbor, miller performs heroically helps to rescue cuban crewmates. Hes makeshift stretcher to move his captain. And then when his return asks him, he above board. And even though he has no training and the ships machine he grabs one of the guns starts firing the japanese planes, potentially hitting one of them. Its a well known story, but its important to understand what this story meant for black americans that once millers name is released, it makes clear how foolish and wrongheaded the militarys policy of segregation is, that here you have, dorie miller, a young man from waco, who, despite being assigned a mess attendant where hes going to serve white officers once the tragedy pearl harbor happens, hes ready to to be in a combat role. And so black americans are asking in early 1942 is just give us the chance to fight, give us a chance to defend our country, and well do everything we can to do that. One of the hardest parts about this book to write is reading the stories of dozens of black americans who went to volunteer after the bombing of pearl harbor. And theyre turned away. They go to the local branches, line up with hundreds of other white citizens. But these black citizens are turned away because at that point, the army doesnt have enough black units to accommodate them and theyre just like dumbstruck because want to defend their country. Theyre deeply deep and theyre asking, whats wrong with us . Whats wrong with our service, our citizenship that we cant defend our country. And so a lot the language youll see during the course of the war is again about this idea of double victory and. I think its nicely captured in these quotes from roy wilkins. He says, were fighting for a world which will not only not contain a but not hitlerism. Its not just enough to defeat hitler as a person, as a terrible figure, but the larger ideology thats not unique to nazi germany needs to be defeated. And then even more pointedly, he says, a lily white cannot fight for a free world. A Jim Crow Army cannot fight for a free world. And so if we fast forward ahead to 48, once president truman eventually signs the executive order to serve the military, thats after a decade intense pressure from civil rights activists roy wilkins, who understand that segregation makes no sense for military. Its trying to fight and win global war on this scale. If i leave you with one thing, its just that segregation made no sense for the military then to do everything and duplicate it was redundant. It served no strategic or tactical purpose. But americans understand that and they want to to do everything they can to push against it. The book also highlights stories of the black americans who performed valiantly in combat. No how it just to hear Edward Carter if i had to vote for one of the most fascinating soldiers to fight in World War Two, carter is right up there. Hes raised by a missionary family. And so he grows up in china and, india, when hes 15. He joins the Chinese National army to fight against japanese in shanghai. He later volunteers a volunteer in the spanish civil war. These are the Abraham Lincoln brigade. I mentioned his foot in hindi, mandarin in german. But when he volunteers for the army just before pearl harbor, they seem to be a cook and a quartermaster unit. And its a part of the illogic of segregation is it doesnt take advantage of the tremendous skill that black americans had. This is someone who had combat experience, someone who could speak multiple languages and is a sign as a cook. In 1945, when the army is desperate infantry troops, they issue a call for volunteers its one of the first times black americans a chance to join the infantry and participate in combat cadres. One in 5000 who volunteers that duty he gives up his rank as a Staff Sergeant to go back to a private just have the opportunity to be on the front lines and he performs amazingly that work hes attached to general patents. Trumps 12th Armored Division and as that unit pushing towards the rhine, he reads an attachment across an open field to position thats held by german soldiers. He takes heavy fire from small and from an anti antitank gun. He ends up killing six nazi troops, captures the other two. And then while wounded within these two, captured back to his unit because speaks german, he interrogates them in german to find out where other nazi units are hidden. And so he gets back to his unit. Hes able to report to his commander about other threats they might face. They push towards the rhine. Its a tremendous story. Its the kind of thing you cant you cant make up. Vernon and i should say, edward allen was posthumously awarded the medal honor of the 433 medals of honor that are awarded during World War Two. None are to black troops. Carter awarded the distinguished service cross, the armys second highest award in the 1990s. The army was an effort to reevaluate a number those words to see who might be upgraded to a medal of honor and carter was one of those vernon. Baker is the only one of the seven who still alive to receive that honor in person. And when he gets the call from the white house initially, hes very reluctant to go. He says, i did this in 1945 when i did. Im not sure if i want to receive this award 50 years later, but ultimately he does. Vernon baker was a lieutenant in the 92nd infantry. He took out three machinegun positions and led a battalion charge through headed through heavy fire and enemy minefields till the allies captured german stronghold the mountains of italy. In april 1945, he demonstrated extra heroism, even though it took the army 50 years to recognize that fact. When i favorite quotes from baker, he said i was an angry young man. We were all angry, but we had a job to do and we did. There are other troops are profiled in the book, including the man four marines were at the battles of jima and saipan, the 761st tank battalion who fought for. 160 days consecutively across four major campaigns, including the battle of the bulge. Theyre nicknamed the black panther tank battalion. And, of course, the Tuskegee Airmen were the wellknown black troops during the war. But of course, most black troops are not in frontline combat roles. And so one of the things i try to show in the book is that the roles that black troops played behind, the front lines, were equally important. When you see pictures of the channel crossing on dday like this, there was barrage balloons that are dangling above the ships were largely manned by black troops. The 320th barrage balloon battalion battalion, one of the soldiers in that year performed bravely. Dday was waverly woodson. He was a medic with the 320th barrage. But between battalion, hes wounded as the ship is coming to shore. He thinks the shrapnel wounds might kill him. The man next him helps bandage his wounds once. Once woodson gets to the beach, he sets up a medical aid station, and tends to wounds of more than 200 men. He places blood plasma. He has three amputations, just as tremendous tremendous work. The filmmaker john ford was on the beach in normandy doing a camera crew for the coast guard, and he reports the heroism of people like weaver and the black duck drivers who were there that day. There were 1700 black americans who are part of the dday invasion, even though theyre often not featured as part of that story. I think because everyone here, day, just stood for day of the invasion. Theres stillday plus one, dday plus two. And it truly is the weeks thereafter are equally crucial t allies success unit. Thats really important to that. Part of the story is the red bull express group that was 75 black Truck Drivers who led this, but a truck convoy that ved supplies from the beaches of normandy and from the rrible port through france and into germany. Eventually, as you know, theyre pushg their without the red bull express and the black men who were voting those trucks, it would have been impossible for the armies to at the pace and with the flexibility that they could. Its one of the ways that the American Army is much more mobile and dynamic than the german army is during same that same time, the german army has ten times as many horses as do trucks. Right. General patton later says its these trucks, these two and a half ton jimmies that help the american the allies win the. And this was reported on at the time i always stewart was a war correspondent during the war and he described what he called miracle of supply. He said although poor battalions and troops are not generally regarded par with frontline combat troops, its a matter of record that no Group Soldiers in this theater has done more to make possible allied victory. They liberate no towns, flags, drink, no champagne or kiss happy girls. Yet when become critical, the first cry of the high command is give us supplies. So similar to ernie pyle, the white war correspondent, their black war correspondent, to figure prominently in the story people like Alice Stewart and anderson, dan burley, th