And organizations with access. The cloud is located through data centers and they are enorm enormous buildings located all over the world filled in some cases with tens of thousands of severs or computers that store the data and process it. And these data centers are located all over the world. And i mean everywhere. One of the best places to locate a data center is in a cool climate. So canada and scandinavia have centers because the server needs to be cool. The physical location would be in the data centers themselves and they are interlinked by satellite to create a global, interconnected of data centers. Why have clouds developed . Guest there are a number of reasons. One of the reasons is they provide an efficient Storage Facility for the rapidly growing store of the worlds data. Certainly as individuals it is difficult to contain all of our data on one computer. And for companies, there are enormous potential savings, and some are being recognized but we are in the early days of the cloud, because as one person described it if you want another definition of Cloud Computing it is an opportunity to outsource all of your it operations. The Cloud Company becomes the it department for corporations around the world. So there are certainly storage savings and cost savings for individuals but especially for companies. Governments have been moving to the cloud because they offer the kind of savings corporations enjoy in it operations. You write 36 of all data is stored in the cloud by 2016. Is this another trend and it will last for another 1020 years and we will move to Something Like that else . We had a pc trend and a central computer trend. Guest right. Right. It is always hard to peer into the future and try to stay ahead of the curve. I think the cloud is on the edge now. It is beginning to grow rapidly and yes, i believe, the cloud will expand. Now again the u. S. Is the leading cloud nation. China and europe are picking up a full head of steam to move to the cloud. Now that isnt to say the transition will be smooth because i describe into the cloud there is Serious Problems associated with Cloud Computing. But to get back to your question, yes, i think it is a trend. And what may be the next trend and we may have a minute or two to talk about that later on is likely to be the connection between the cloud, big data which is analyzing all of the data in cloud systems, and what is called the internet of things which puts intelligence in every day items people now refer to the talking refrigerator or the intel intel intel intelligent cars. So i see the marriage of the big cloud, analytics and the internet of things. Host host you mention the u. S. Government. How does the u. S. Government currently use the cloud . Guest primarily it is the military and intelligence arms of the u. S. Government. For example, the National Security agency is building one of the Worlds LargestCloud Data Centers in a secure mountain facility in utah. It is doing so because its surveillance needs to require that degree of storage and security. The u. S. Governments chief Information Officer three or four years ago ordered u. S. Government agencies to move to the cloud. And as a result even civilian agencies are turning to Cloud Services. So it is primarily military and intelligence. There is an interesting u. S. Government program run by what is called the office of the digital humanities which provides funding for Academic Research that makes use of the cloud in big data in advances in research and humanities. But that is a drop in the bucket of primary military and Intelligence Surveillance operation. Host are there privacy and security concerns . Particularly when it comes to the military information being stored away. That is one of the prime problems that i address into the cloud. Much of what is published is technical on how to build a cloud or promotional and why we should jump on the bandwagon. My book addressed critical questions we need to face and might retard the development of Cloud Computing and one of these is the question of privacy and survilance. There are serious privacy implications partly because no system is fully secure and as we have seen from celebrated cases of the nude photos of Jennifer Lawrence and hacked into other versions of apples version of the cloud there is concerns. Hacking is wide spread. And companies, which tend to be reluctant to report cases of hacking, have led to an underestimation of the amount of tacking that is taking place. Companies fear that people wont do business with them if they know their servers are not secure. It is also the case it isnt just the isolated hacker who creates privacy and survilance problems. It is essentially a core element of the Business Plan of most surveillance of most Cloud Companies to carry out surveillance surveillance. You asked about the incentive to move to the cloud and one is the opportunity to profit from the data of customers stored in the cloud. Facebook for example, is utterly dependent upon its ability to analyze and Market Information on its subscribers as it many other customers. So there is a kind of corporate surveillance that is within the law and legitimate that increasingly raises issues for customers and subscribers and finally there is state surveillance. The concerns that Edward Snowden revealed in his revelations about the nsa. But it is also the case many other arms of government the Central Intelligence agency for example, received a or carried out a deal with amazon. Amazon received 600 million and a contract to provide intelligence Cloud Services for the cia. So there is a kind of uncomfortable link between a company that markets data on its customers and a government intelligence arm whose business is foreign and more often these days domestic surveillance. So there are growing concerns about privacy and surveillance. Host dr. Mosco, you mentioned the nsa and talk about the data center in utah. What is that and how is it being used . Guest it is still under construction. It is nearing completion. It being the nsa we dont know a great deal about it. It is enormous. It will store the bulk of the nsas files on individuals and manage a data stored elsewhere. So in a sense it will be the Information Capital of the nsa. And as i mentioned, it is built in a mountain. It is a very secure facility. And only a few people have reported on what will likely go on there. But suffice it to say it will likely be the center of the nsas data storage, processing and information management. Host if someone is using an ipad or tablet are they using a cloud . Can you give an example of how that works. Guest sure. Example of gmail comes immediately to mind. Many people have decided not to store their email on their own computers and subscribe to an Online Service like gmail so that when you check your email, you would be communicating with a Google Data Center that actually stores your mail. It will send that mail to you and should you decide to respond or create a new email you are communicating with Googles Gmail division to send out that mail. As a result google is able to observe every email you send out on gmail and one of the consequences is google is able to profit from your use of their Gmail Service by capturing the data in your mailing to determine the kinds of things that you are interested in. So if you happen to anocously email about football to a friend the next time you log on to the site there might be an ad for tickets to an nfl game in your area or jersey sales. We are in constant use of the cloud. Individuals certainly are. But i think it is important to emphasis the cloud is a very significant business tool. As i suggested earlier and one of the reasons why there are significant labor implications in Cloud Computing is that Big Companies want to use the clouds to stream line their workforce. So for example, if you are a company that has a very close customer relation element in your business you might use the Sales Force Cloud. Salesforce. Com being a major Cloud Company. And their cloud specializes in Customer Relations management. So rather than operate an enormous Marketing Department on their own Companies Might streamline that and move it to the Sales Force Cloud saving a lot of labor cost. So that increasingly individuals through email use or downloading itunes or making calls on iphones or companies wanting to hive off elements of their business whether it is marketing, legal, finance, draw from Cloud Companies to do so. So it is increasingly a fundamental aspect of both individual and organizational live life. And i think it is important for us to understand that and elements that describe the cloud because whether it is privacy or labor or the concern about the Environmental Impact of a world covered in data centers we need to consider what amounts to serious, social and Public Policy issues that the cloudbris about. Host have those started to be addressed yet . Guest well there is some debate around the cloud. Largely on the outside. It depends on the issue. There have been discussions about the environmental consequences of the data centers. They also require massive cooling facilitys. And furthermore because of the 247 culture we expect our Cloud Services whether gmail or icloud, to be available nonstop and Cloud Companies have to use backup systems like diesel generators and chemical lead acid batteries that are heavily polluting. I am calling attention to companies that make greater use of solar power like apple and amazon who will not reveal their sources of power or their Environmental Impacts. So we are beginning to think about data center impacts, but it is important we do so soon because here we are talking about thousands of structures around the world, Office Facilities within the same location. The new cloud cities are happening. And there is, as i observe, very little attention directed to the environmental consequences of these. Jobs that are at risk of clouds are beginning to thing about the loss of jobs not so much because of outsourcing to emergic economies like that of india or china but outsourced to the cloud. There are those considerations. Organizations representing professional workers are increasinglye increasingly calling attention to the labor issues. My concerns highlighted in the book is we dont have general policy discussion about the role of the cloud in society. I think peter is peter, we are likely to see more and more of the discussion as president obama raised the potential to make the internet a utility, a public utility not unlike that of the utilities that provide other essential services that provide water and electricity. I am certain as the years go on we will increasingly see the cloud as an essential service requiring public oversight to address issues like the environmental privacy, labor, corporate issues that are being raised piece meal today. Perhaps it is time to think of the cloud as a public utility. To the cloud big data in a turbulent world is Vincent Mosco most recent book on the Information Society and common communication. He is joining us from boston but he is canadian and works at Queens University in canada. Does canada have a different regulatory structure when it comes to addressing these issues . And what about the use of the cloud in your home country . Guest there are economic benefits of living in the cold. We house data from companies all over the world because it is easier to keep it cool up north and we have abundant sources of hydro electric power to keep them going. Canadas regulatory system is only slightly different from that of the United States. One of the key differences is we play closer attention to issues like equal access and universal service so our regulator has greater power to oversee business, and it is mainly private businesses that operate in the cloud. We have essentially two policy drivers. One is that we support Canadian Companies so that firms like roger and bell canada are major providers and we use the internet to advance certain social goals like equalty and public access. Most of the population is close to the border but we have groups in the north that are difficult to serve and our regulators are working to see and there is debate on how good a job they do but their job is to help isolated communities have access to Information Services as well. So in the long term as we move to what i consider an essential goal and movement to Public Utility Service for the cloud, canada is a bit further along than the United States but it is still battling over the conflict between public rights and private opportunities. Host before we run out of time i want to tie in one more time the big data aspect to this. And that is in your subtitle of the book as well. You have two minutes. Guest sure. Well peter, one of the important values of the clouds is it gathers large amounts of data and companies can benefit from organizing and using it. There is widespread benefit of learning what is in the cloud and profit and surveyillance opportunities to be made. So there is great debate over big data. I call for greater oversight of the cloud and big data is in our excitement to embrace the quanatative bits in the clouds is we tend increasingly to see the truth embodied solely in that can can be quantified or organized in correlation. As a trained socialologist i learn there are limitations. And i fear we are loosing sight of the importance of equalitative, historic theoreticle information, of capturing the subjectivity of people whose data is located in the cloud. We have numerous cases of errors made in big Data Analysis. Largely because of the misuse of correlational analysis. As a result i think we need to be careful, to be cautious and to recognize that our society has benefited enormously from multiple approaches to understanding data and information. And that we should increasingly emphasis the need to supplement quanatative big Data Analysis with those from humanities and association social sciences that are more equalitative and historical. Host and finally, it struck me throughout the book you made references to the term of the cloud. Why is that . Guest well the cloud image is a very powerful one. Many there are many society and civilizations that attribute things to the clouds. We are more likely to appear to the clouds surrounding the Environmental Impacts and privacy impact and we may not associate with that lovely puffy white cloud in the sky. The cloud is indeed not immaterial. It is very material. And the sooner we recognize its powerful materiality the more likely we are to make use of it for our benefit and to control and regulate many of its successes. Host to the cloud big data in a turbulent world is the name of the book. Vincent mosco is the author. Thank you, sir. Guest thank you very much peter