Transcripts For CSPAN2 The Revolution Of Robert Kennedy And

If theres time at the end of the q a with the authors, we ask is the microphone provided and please speak into it so that viewers at home can hear you. Before we begin todays program ph announced in sinister phone and turn off all flash cameras. Please welcome her interviewer, chained daily. [applause] thank you. High coming changes from the university of chicago. He can tell by my voice im not going to be talking so much today which is just as love because we have two fabulous authors to talk about their incredible books. Let me tell you about them and then they will talk to you. Our first author todays train to come reporter, writer and its producer at morning show. I want to say hes the producer, but apparently there are others as well. Re his writing is published across politico and the new republic in new york magazine. His book here, the revolution of Robert Kennedy from power to protest after jfk is his first book published by bloomsbury. Our second author to date is transcended, whos a journalist reported and edited for the wall street journal and the International Herald tribune and corrupting the Nonfiction Book editor for the washington post. Hes also the author of little demon in the city of light coming true story of murder and mesmerism published in 2014 and i can recommend as a fascinating story where you have a woman who was she a coldhearted minister did she kill under hypnotism. This book today will talk aboutn his kennedy and king the president , the pastor, and the battle over civil rights. It is published by ash at. I will start up asking questions to you, jack, which are book is about what you call the overload tiers of Robert Kennedy flied straight years after the assassination of john f. Kennedy in 1963 until 1966. Why did you pick those three years of the different chronological spans . Why all of that . I wanted to understand why Robert Kennedy was a hero where they stood on the ideological spec turn. That is because of how he represented change and can aidtd change and these are the years in which the change manifested itself. This is a time of upheaval for the country, but also a time ofy the appeal for Robert Kennedy assassination of john f. Kennedy. Not only his brother in his boss who would run away. It was his direction in life. His entire life had not had a goal that was not his brothers. He suddenly decided what it was he was going to do. Most books have taken the pathoi of Robert Kennedy is depressed. He runs for the senate can wear bells on me at him, and presidency. Picks up the story midway through the senate years. It was in much of our complicated path by looking at t random in the corresponding and oral histories and news clippings because Robert Kennedy was covered so extensively toth the point where bible so that the president of the unitedstor states. You would find five or six stories on a slow day. On a busy day of the 40 or 50 stories. There was this incredible case of the brother of the slain president trying to work things out with lbj for the First Six Months and beyond that robertbe kennedy finding his independence and becoming the person he was at the end of his life people look to pin he said he never had a goal that wasnt John Kennedys. Both of you mentioned in your books the relationship of both kennedys to Joseph Mccarthy. I am interested in hearing a little bit about Bobby Kennedyes working with Joseph Mccarthy. Y it is your story about john kennedy, not the refusal to use distance himself from mccarthy, but the way he managed not to distance himself to the way other senatee democrats did. That surprised me. They both seem to have either no coming sympathy for come a fondness for her unwillingness to jettison mccarthy more than i expect it. Well, john kennedy had an excuse to not say anything about Joseph Mccarthy during the time when mccarthy was causingin so much trouble in the United States because john was very sick and has been said many times in his life. This time he was having a back issue and was in hospital. He took the opportunity of hiding behind his operation to avoid having to speak out when the senate was going to condemn mccarthy. What was interesting about this particular moment in kennedys life is that as he did many times throughout his career and life, he thought about it again a second time later and realized that perhaps he didnt show the courage that he needed to show. H it was soon after this that he started thinking about writing a book called profiles in courage where he looked at a group oftow senators who sort of acted on their best intentions can even at the risk of their political careers to take a solid stand on an issue in this sort of in some ways was an early moment in johr kennedys career where he began to feel that he wanted to become something more than he had ever been in become really a leader in a way that he had never been. The Eleanor Roosevelt had some words i attend for that momentnt where he could recognize courage, but he couldnt practice it. Yeah, i think he was more courage, less profile, send tonight. When it comes to Robert Kennedy and Joseph Mccarthy as a political leader in new york and charles buckley, he wouldnt jettison people who were loyal to his family. Weal he was awfully good to us in 1960 with something he always dreaded to hear because it meant he was about to do something they thought was more about politics than principle. Those Robert Kennedys at the end of jfk flight. The ruthless opportunist who would do anything. That was part of it that he didnt have this kind of guiding set of principles. When it comes to mccarthy, that was a person who had been good to their family, loyalty when he wasnt going to say mean things even if it scored political points. It was a political liability foa him. In some ways it showed politicat courage to stand by a person who he had been previously had feelings for her. For he also tried to break off for about a failing test file. He passed the buck of little bay. What makes these two books are nicely paired together as both his stories are aboutha kennedy brothers trained to become Something Better than theyve ever been. Theyre evolving. Looking at their lives in trying to decide what they can do to truly fulfill the families call for public service. Bobby was coming along in a in a certain way and throughout the story of my book, that is basically what john was trying to do the civil rights. She was trying to become a civil rights president starting from a very low base when he first cam into the presidency. He was not a civil rights advocate. But as we know, two and a half years later in june 1963, he went on television and announced civil rights legislation and spoke about civil rights in a way that had never been broken befo. Ent moral terms. The question from what i tried to do with how did john kennedy. Of 1961 become the john kennedyf in 1963. As they searched and try to figure that out, where did he get his empathy . Where did he get his moral guidance . How did he find his confidence . Martin luther king was always popping up in my research is a Martin Luther king really was one of the key figures if not the key figure in helping john kennedy along the path toto becoming basically our first civil rights president. Im sure jack can talk a little bit also about how Bobby Kennedy also is a very big figure in John Kennedys evolution as w well. Harry truman might have something to say about it to be first in the civil rights president s. You have a wonderful bid in the beginning but john kennedy going to Jackie Robinson. It is interesting the black vote before Martin Luther king seemed to be Jackie Robinson said in harry belafonte. Its an interesting part for Jackie Robinson in your mind is that Richard Nixon had a much better reputation for civil rights than john kennedy did as a democrat. The Democratic Party is the party of White Supremacy at this point and republicans were much stronger in nixon in particularp had met Martin Luther king already in africa. So you have john kennedy having to get its way into politics in 1860 and is having a hard time doing it. He didnt have the black vote going into the election and his Campaign Manager Bobby Kennedy and the others realized he had to do some thing to attract the black vote. The campaign believed that black leaders could funnel black voters to the kennedy camp. So the campaign tried very hard to court people like harry belafonte, Jackie Robinson and Martin Luther king. Some of the early meetings didnt go very well. The meeting with Jackie Robinson turned into a bit of a dispute for Jackie Robinson felt that kennedy was trying to buy him off. He was upset that kennedy wasnt looking him in the eye when he was speaking to him and already had committed to Richard Nixon and they had a relationship going back sometime. With Martin Luther king it was the same kind of thing that john kennedy could not satisfy Martin Luther king in the belief that kennedy knew enough about civil rights and was committed enough to it as a been a little too friendly with some southern racist governors and have been trying to hurt politically to build his southern base. So they had a long way to go in trying to build that black vote. Were going to come in . I was going to say Jackie Robinson is Bobby Kennedy is republican opponent in the 1964 senate race. He continued to be a critic of bobbys actions on civil rights as he went along in the senate as well. Is very interesting. A lot of people arent that familiar with Jackie Robinson had a lot of political views in the 1960s to jump into political battles. He talked quite a bit and i was surprised reading your book how strongly Bobby Kennedy wanted to be Lyndon Johnson Space President , which really made no sense to me at first. Cap, Robert Kennedys understanding of the political scene in december 1963. It wont matter about the kennedy name our legacy. He wouldve been shocked at the celebration of the centennial of jay at his earth just because he thought it would be Lyndon Johnsons party and things were changing. We need to do what we can tochsa stay in power, to continue to insist that we started. The most conventional path to power to Robert Kennedy in1963 w december 1963 was to become the Vice President because he would be the natural successor to the Democratic Party and have the chance to rekindle that. It is difficult to say when exactly the campaign began, but the first is of january 1964, an assistant attorney general is writing a memo about how bobby would go about getting on the ballot in certain states. In New Hampshire there is a writein primary at the time and you can write in for Vice President as well. Couple operatives began a campaign there. Buffy was in close contact to discover to call logs and messages to go forward a littler bit more than prepared itinerary for him and the things he should do if hes interested in b going and building good report for the Democratic Convention in 1964 and by following bobbys travels, i was actually able to show that he did it. He not only heard the Advice Company followed it. Even more Robert Kennedy pressuring lyndon to enter their names, having conversations, other things not previouslyot reported about. Ultimately, Robert Kennedy decided Lyndon Johnson doesnt understand loyalty. Wh he kind of comes to thatat conclusion when he hears Lyndon Johnson berated his staff to him. And he says this mans political enemy. How could he talk this way about the people that have been so loyal to him. He knew that johnson wasnt the right way for him to go. He kind of meandered its way into the senate and the johnsons coattails to the new York Senate Seat and he begins to discover some independent path after that and the nasa trades have taken to the book. The primaries are much less important. He was working with heart of the itinerary kobe but this power broker and things like that. Steve, did you want to you want to come in on that . In terms of what . You looked like you were going to talk about the vice presidency. K i was in your book. He talk about how Bobby Kennedy didnt have access to the president anymore. H but to get his ideas through the Lyndon Johnson were optimally with you. You get his ideas through in here if and not in a crate digger from you, ill consider that. Then he would get on the phone with Richard Russell and on thel issue of vietnam, bobby was saying early on, this is a political problem, not a military one. A dj would say okay, sounds good. Hang up the phone connected on the other line is its a military problem, not a political one. And if the stars on the shoulders to build this for me. They were definitely of course talking. A very tense situation. Steve, can you tell us what it like writing a dualaldu biography. Writing a biography is hard enough. It seems at least twice as hard. In this case, it probably was a little bit easier because my goal was to show the relationship between the two men. Cant write one biography without the other. In this case, it was a matter of time to show their development from early days. Although i start really with the beginning of their lives and how they were so different coming from very different backgrounds obviously. There were still some solemn laertes but they both suffered from discrimination if you can believe the kennedy suffered from discrimination when they arrived being Irish Catholics in boston. Wasnt the same kind of thing that king and his family suffered being black in theblacn south. There was sort of that he can of incense of some sort of feeling that kennedy may understand a little bit of what king had been through in his family. It was from that beginning point that i felt as they researched it more there was a sense in john kennedy that he has the potential to understand the black plague, that he was just very slow in accepting it ander constantly was concerned about the political situation and took his time, looked at civil rights more as a law and order issue or a policy issue and not really a moral issue until Martin Luther king was able to teach and educate him and really bring him along to his persistence to the point where he made his famous speech in june of 63. Way. They push back a little bit on that one because you put king so much at the center if youre looking at circumstances that put john kennedy backing him into a position of taking a strong stand its for theti actions of the Younger Generation who are doing this to defend the bus ride. Bobby kennedy says cant you people stop doing citizens, do something less explosive. They were trying to manage a political situation. I think it took him a long time to see that this is a moral situation, not a political situation. Robert kennedy in may 1963 has a meeting of park avenue at their fathers apartment with activists and some of whom are very angry. One organizer named sharon smith from new orleans that he wanted to just by being in a room at the kennedy and he goes on and talks about how he would not fight for his country and bobby is disgusted by that as well. How could you say such a thing. Instead of letting his ego overtake income may be the attorney general of having this kind of contentious conversation with people he feels im trying to help, he realizes theres an insulin this country and you see the word creep into his speeches. A continuous and saw the flick it upon people. He talks of a black soldier killed in vietnam be buried in Arlington National cemetery and the soldier family from georgia they dont know how theyll geto back up or how they will come to see the man buried in arlingtonn delay his eyes rather buried at arlington. Dont know where they can stop c for a drink of water. That is an insult and that isco wrong in this country. Therefore you see him talk about it at a much more moral sense. He says that if washington, and search our were black in the northern city, they would be leading these revolutions, too. You are already in 63. And jumping around. By this point were about to to loose john kennedy. Part of the trouble here with these two books talking to each other is john