David Stephen Hayes and Jonathan Martin, not just journalists. Theyre not gonna like me saying this, but arguably not. Arguably, they are celebrity who have reached the of their profession. It should also be noted whenever youve mentioned jonathans name, that his wife betsy is here and she has risen to the top echelon journalism in and of her own right. Um, something very curious happened last night that that does not happen enough in politics anymore or last night bunch of journalists and politicos got together for dinner and had fun and lots of stories were told was lots of lots of laughter. And it was fun. And then despite the different ideologies and platforms, it was it was a really good time. There. Also some arguing and some disputes and, some finger pointing and most of that was brought about our our very own cattle prod. Allan lange and you have the good fortune of him being your moderator for that. Alan. Alan is one of those people that when people say, what does alan do for a living nobody really knows and and its not because he its not that he that he doesnt anything its that he does so much he has owned several successful businesses involved in economic and job creation. He has also been the owner and. Publisher of one of the most preeminent media organizations in the state. That is your allpolitics hes also a bestselling he wrote in 2009, he published king of torts too much critical acclaim. But his real claim to fame is that he is the husband, holly lange, the ever leader in our state. That is a power couple. But she puts the power in the power couple down and alan will be first to admit that, im sure. So with that allan. Very good. Thank you so. And paula youll look under your seat. There are two 200 bills taped up under the under the bottom. So thank you for that. Well, ive been a huge fan. The book festival, obviously, since its inception this is the panel that i circle year this is the one i dont miss what i call the big Political Panel and so its an honor for me to be moderating it for sure especially with the again, as paul said, the caliber of people weve got, the sponsors have been thanked already. So ill skip that. But i do want to introduce these gentlemen individually sitting to my immediate left, David Drucker is a Senior Correspondent for the washington examiner. He focuses on campaigns and National Political, his most book is in trumps shadow the battle 2024 and future of gop. As Jonathan Martin told us in an earlier display, the books make sure Everybody Knows too by them. So please do that. Prior to joining examiner, he was a reporter for roll call in washington, covered california politics, including the governator, arnold, a native of southern california. He actually managed a family run business before he got into political journalism, which has that that endears him to greatly. I think thats an invaluable for somebody in the National Political sphere is a contributing writer for vanity fair and appears regularly on cable news. A nationally syndicated radio program. So, David Drucker, welcome. Jonathan martin is a Senior Writer for the New York Times. Political analysts for cnn and coauthor of the New York Times, best. This will not pass trump biden in the battle for americas future that he with fellow New York Times writer alexander. He also coauthored the end of line romney and obama, 34 days at the side of the election with glenn thrush back in 2012. Join the times and after working for a Senior Writer in politico and his works been all over the place. New republic national. Washington post. Wall street journal. Hes a native arlington, virginia and a graduate of the city college, where he was rumored to be defensive lineman on the football team. And then were sorry that stuart stevens, who was originally scheduled to be here he has lots of mississippi ties from here started with thad in Political Campaign in the in the seventies kind of high watermark politically working mitt romney in 2012 as his top Campaign Adviser his most recent book and we certainly regret that he cant be here due to covid but its most recent book it was all i have a Republican Party became donald trump and he offered that in 2020. We found out about thursday night. And just like spectacular stroke of fate steve hayes was here and thats like looking on your bench and like, oh Roger Clemens is ready to start for us. So we have we have a great great honor of having steve join us. He is known in meals, media circles as a founder of the dispatch. Work has appeared all over the place. Washington salon, new york post, been all over tv, seen mclaughlin group, fox. We might talk a little about that later. Msnbcs cnbc, cspan. Hes worked at the athens Editor National journal, editor in chief of the standard, and he also authored a book which we will talk about a little bit in 2009 called cheney the untold story of americas most powerful and controversial vice president. So before we get into the meat of the panel, this is, you know, politics being what it is now. Ive asked by the organizers of the book festival to read a brief disclaimer this wont take me just a second, but i think its important. Just everybody kind of knows are the ground is on behalf mississippi book festivals board its staff its in sponsors. We welcome you to this discussion the political media or as i like call it, the state of the state of the state we are in. So here are the disclaimers. This is an event, ideas and controversial themes and, topics that touch us all will and should be discussed. The following words or phrases may be invoked or inserted. The moderator or panelist, without warning at any time, including but not limited to trump. Pelosi. Biden clinton. Hunter, maralago. January six. Republican Democrat Impeachment raid indictment acquittal conviction laptop fake news hoax Mainstream Media right wing conspiracy deep state maga please prepare yourselves according us the comfort of safe spaces and emotional support animals during our visit should be shot at the listeners discretion. Listeners are advised that thoughts will be provoked, assumptions will be challenged, and perspectives on the same set of facts will be analyzed through multiple political lenses, often leading to varied and sometimes even contradictory conclusions. And thats a good thing. We ask all gathered in this great Supreme Chamber and those watching on cspan, and particularly those trolling us relentlessly in real time on twitter to please be civil. Please be advised during our time today that any screaming, shouting outbursts, interjections, threats, moaning, wailing, sign waving, flag waving, snake handling, throwing of objects, sloganeering, use of bullhorns, tear writing, or other impolite manifestations of generally not being aware that other humans exist and they dont agree with you or result in you being asked to leave the proceedings. We will do our best to leave our to leave a few minutes at the end for you to politely asked your questions of these smart people in an orderly at the podium when recognize us to speak your piece. So please save up for them. Please send your cell phones to stone or do not disturb. No refunds will be made under any circumstances. Cover up tours. You get what you pay for, and who knows . You might even learn a thing or two. So to start. Certainly the two books here want to start with david and then jonathan. Just very quickly i mean trump is is certainly the central part of the theme here. Theres theres not much avoiding that but talk about the origin story. You know, were these the books that you actually set out to write and just talk about how you came to want to write about the, you know, about this book. Thank you all. And thanks, everybody, for being here im excited to be here with jonathan and steve, two people who often keep me up at night because i wonder what story theyre getting that im not. Being a journalist is nerve. You interim shadow was interesting in that it started out and primarily as a book about what i saw a Shadow Campaign for the 2024 president ial nomination. On the republican side on well before anybody knew whether trump would win lose, lose but claim he won. And normally the etiquette in both parties is if youve got an incumbent running they they run you wait for them to win or lose and. Then the next day can be all about you and. You full steam ahead on the next race. Nobody with trump waited. I think its because he was such a unique that. They all wondered if he might just decide to go home to new york, which was his home at the time. And any moment, and they needed to be ready. And so there were all of these battles going on and all of this very intense prep work to get a president ial ready for 2024, beginning in some cases before election day 2016. And the day after trump was inaugurated president january 2017. And so thats how it started. And then ultimately evolved into the his impact the Republican Party and whether you like trump trump or undecided but i doubt there are any of those. I think one thing is clear. I he represents a generational break the reagan era of the party he has what you will see republican candidates running for president going forward. Even if he runs, but especially if he does not. You know, most of my life, because im old enough every four years, a bunch of republicans running around telling me they were the next Ronald Reagan and they were arguing who was the real next Ronald Reagan. And i dont think youre going to see that for the foreseeable future, if ever. And what youre going to see in the short is i am the next trump. Yes. Yeah, some will be subtle about it and theyll tell you, well, look, im going to give you best of trump without the worst of trump others are just to be very overt and say, im going to give you the best of trump with the best of trump, because there is no worst of trump and it definitely he changed by winning the presidency in 2016. What republic voters many of them the base especially expects from their leaders. You know, before trump, you could you know trumps like this character out of the movie where the guy goes on tv and says everything that everybody always wanted to hear, but say because it wouldnt work. And before trump, somebody would run. Its like trump and everybody go. Thats amazing. I wish somebody would say that. Nobody can say that. Theyll lose. Well, trump says it all and acts the he acts and he wins. And so you try telling committed republican voter who voted for trump twice and wants him to run or you know undecided but they like him wish he would have won in 2020. Try telling him this doesnt work. You can say he lost in 2020. Republicans lost the house they lost the senate, but he won the presidency. And he came actually close, even though he lost handily, really came close to winning it again. When you look at the numbers in the six swing states that mattered in that race and so they want more of that. They people who fight, they want people who challenge the system or just basically take a sledgehammer to the system and they think that it works. And it doesnt mean good in a general election. I would argue that, especially as a change agent, trump is no longer. And so i dont know that his act wear the same if he tries this a third time. But republican certainly liked what they saw and a of them would be happy to see it again. Even though im sure well get into this. Its a little bit more than that, but that is what trumps interim shadow became it became forward looking book about whats next i get asked all the time as a political reporter whats next now what are they going to do to. I tried to write that hopefully some of you think worked but thats where i started, where i ended up. Okay, jonathan, talk a little bit about the origin story of this will not pass on first of all thanks for having me paul. Thank you for the introduction and shout out to my wife Betsy Fisher Martin whos a as paul mentioned, a great journalist and in her own right. Its fun to be back in jackson and be in these august surroundings here. I would love you to pick up the book. I think were sold out outside here. So if you want to get it online on amazon or your Favorite Local bookstore, please do that today. Wed be grateful we out. Alex and i did. And im sorry alex couldnt be here. Mike gray co author and friend alex. I started out with the idea of 2020 is going to be a really interesting campaign, a memorable campaign, perhaps even historic campaign. We should do a big book on it and then as 2020 went on and as you all know, because you lived it, there was this cascade of events in 2021 after the other that made clear that this was a Campaign Like no other. This was a year like no other. And in then, of course, the election ended and we didnt have a concession, you might recall. And so at that point we realized that we couldnt do Traditional Campaign both because, you know, the campaign really didnt end and there was no natural place to conclude the book. And then after january sixth it became vividly clear we had to do something more profound and consequential, hopefully endure. And that was to capture this moment in american history. We knew at that point that we were living historic times, that people were going to study this ten years, 20 years, 50 years down the road, and that we had to sort of capture 20, 20 and 21 what happened . Why in america to the brink, why is this country sort of enduring this crisis of democracy and . Try to account for that. And thats what we did with this book is get inside both parties offer more light than try to illuminate rather than to burn about this period. Its our belief that we live in a a time of endless political opinion, izing and commentary. Look, you dont have to go further than your Facebook Page or your twitter account to find somebody offering an opinion about politics right, far right, far left, everywhere in between. Well, theres not a lot of in these times we think its reported accounts of politics information, news, sort of behind the scenes information gathering about how people in politics are are acting. And so we wanted to do that with, this book. And, you know, we kind of that theres no lack books out there you just go to your bookstore and go to the Current Affairs section and youll see books from team or team blue and you can get any sort of number of those books that are, you know, standing up one side or attacking the other. But theres not a lot of in those sections are, we think, the kind of rapport that authoritative account on that we we hope we offered in this book. Its not just about President Trump our cover President Biden do it not just about president s, but also congress. Theres not a lot of books that sort of Cover Congress like we do. And lastly we cover, i think are a lot about the country. We get of washington governors, mayors. They live through 2020 and 2021 as well. And so think its a pretty comprehensive account of this period of crisis in american politics and you didnt write a book about this period of time, but obviously youve youve written a lot and on a lot. And so you put yourself in put yourself in context with regards kind of the end of trump term in the end of trumps term. And then going into january six and ill just pick up on on what both david and jonathan said in first down thanks for me. Pinch it roger. Clemens wasnt much of a hitter, but youll probably get that. Hell probably that for me. The you know i didnt write a book about this period. I was busy having a magazine that i run get shut down Weekly Standard and the dearly departed Weekly Standard, god rested. So and had been a at fox news for more a decade and found my way out of fox news so a lot of Interesting Times i did live a lot of the things that these these father are talking about but i want to just underscore one of the things that they said. I think one of the reasons were in the situation that were in as a country is because we dont have enough of the kinds of books and the kinds of reporting that jonathan talked about. The david and jonathan both have done. You know, we that that new company that we started is called the dispatch and we started it basically. I mean, we used like some of the same exact language in our manifesto that you just use more light than he reporting facts. First, we live in a world of abundant opinion. Everybody an opinion many people want you to know what their opinion is. And the point of the problem is, especially given the speed information these days is everybody to rush out with an opinion quickly and then rather than back off from that opinion, they try to backfill it. They try to support it with arguments that may or may not be true. That may or may not be accurate. So what we try to do with the dispatch is slow the news cycle down so were okay waiting a day or two. Its a strange position to in with some of our younger journalists whove been trained to to crank things out and get it. We still want to get it first. We still want to break news. But theyll come to me and ill say lets wait. Lets wait. Day or two. Lets try to understand whats going on, make a couple more calls, find things out and its you know, its its sort of a new shouldnt be a new approach to journalism. But it is a new approach to journalism and just picking up on davids final point about the eagerness of seeing of republicans, of seeing somebody who will fight. I think thats that explains a lot of what weve seen over the past five years seven years. If you look back to 2006, we lived an unprecedented time of political volatility. Every single election from 2006 until 2020 has been a change, except for