The publication of former u. S. Education secretary, betsy devoss new book, hostage is no more. The fight for education, freedom and the future of the american child. Many of you may were never that secretary devos was a recipient of our 2019 Alexander Hamilton award. We are honored to have her with us tonight to celebrate her tenacious and impactful efforts to unlock the potential of americas youth, and our nations most creative and effective educators. Etsy and our esteemed friend of mi, dan seymour, will engage in conversation for the next 20 minutes and we will open it up to questions. Dan seymour, an equity partner, chief officer and has served as a Senior Advisor to wes senator mitt romney and former u. S. Speaker of the house, paul ryan. Dan was based in baghdad for a year, where he served as chief spokesman for the u. S. Led coalition in iraq rate prior, he was a Senior Defense department official. For his service and his wills, dan was awarded the pentagons highest civilian honor, the u. S. Department of defense medal for service. In addition to his prestigious accomplishments, dan is a celebrated public intellectual, having coauthored the work times the New York Times bestseller. His writing has appeared on the pages of wall street journal, the New York Times, and can be heard regularly as host of the call me back podcast, which focuses on what history can teach us about what the world teaches today. Please welcome, dan seymour. [applause] thank you, bob. Thank you for that introduction. It is a pleasure to be at the Manhattan Institute. I feel like the Manhattan Institute the last few years is an organization perfectly matched to the moment. If you were to go into the lab and engineer a think tank that was perfectly designed for the Public Policy challenges we are dealing with today, the Manhattan Institute is it and it is thriving doing what feels like a chaotic moment. It is not the first time i thought that way about the Manhattan Institute. If you look back at those years between 89 and 93, when Rudy Giuliani ran and lost in 1989, and won a few years later, if you look at what is happening in new york city and the people who ended up populating the Giuliani Administration did so much of their learning and studying with the scholars at the Manhattan Institute back then, it was an organization, purposely matched to the moment. That is exactly how i feel about our guest tonight, secretary betsy devos, who is a leader, a political leader, an activist in the truest sense who, when she came into office, we could never have imagined would be perfectly matched to the moment we are in. I want to spend a moment talking about secretary devos, because i do not know people know about her tenure as secretary of education, but they may not know the decades of work she has done in the trenches of education reform before that. These are some of the organizations that secretary devos has actually started, or worked with. Foundations for excellence in education, lines for school choice, all children matter packed, great Lakes Education project, the American Federation for children. All of these organizations, for decades, she has a true passion for education reform. She was instrumental in the first passage of the Charter School law in michigan, and a number of other reforms that have taken place since then. On a personal note, i personally knew secretary devos in the 1990s when i was working on a Senate Campaign in 1994. Seth abrahams campaign, for those who are interested in political trivia. Betsy was a key figure in Michigan Republican politics. What i was always struck by the work she did, she was not in republican politics for process reason. Some people get involved in politics because of the process. She was in it for the principles and policy objectives that flowed from those principles, politics was a vehicle or vessel. Party politics, help in getting the right people in office to advance the policy she cared about. She has been a force in that space, the intersection of politics, philanthropy and activism a policy ever since then, which culminated in her time in the education department. Now, which is chronicled in this book, hostages no more. The vibrant education reform, and the future of children thank you, betsy, for being here. Join me in welcoming her. [applause] thank you, thank you for having me here. My father was mr. Seymour, call me dan. I will call you betsy. Betsy, we will talk about your years in the administration. How did you get involved with education reform . When i first got to know you, i was familiar with the education reform issue and debate, but it was not run and center, in conservative politics. You were already in the thick of it. Tell us how you got into it. Nick and i, my husband and i we have four children. When our oldest son was about to start kindergarten, i went on a search for what school he was going to go to. He had been in the Montessori Preschool for a couple of years, loved that. Loved that selfdirected learning. We knew we were going to be able to send our children to whatever school we felt was right to them, because we could afford it. I happened to find a amazing, little, faithbased school in the heart of grand rapids that served children in the Community Around it. I started ellen tearing there. Rick didnt end up going there. I started volunteering, we supported the opportunity for students to go there. 90 of operating ones had to be raised by benefactors outside of the school because parents going there could not afford that for their kids. More got involved, the more i realized for every family that had children there, there were probably 10 or 20 other families in that area that would have loved to have that kind of environment or their children. I started getting involved on the philanthropic side, we thought early on making the case emotionally, or logically, one of the two would strike a chord with just about everyone. It did not take long to figure out, no, it is the Politics Around it in order to get policy change. I felt this was fundamentally unfair for the families that wanted to have their children and those kinds of places, could not, but i could. Or, we could. That was really the genesis of my involvement. Now, talk about you get involved, start volunteering at these organizations and you put the issue on the map of republican legislators. Not only republican legislators in michigan, you had this first signature achievement, the school law. In michigan, getting the Charter School law passed. The governor was a big champion in that regard, we were helpful in convincing legislators that were understandably nervous about it. Beyond that we take it for granted, because Charter Schools are thriving. At the time, it was revolutionary. It was about 1995 that a past in michigan. One of the early states to adopt Charter Schools. The only way it got passed in michigan was to put a limit on the number of charters that could be formed, that limit was quickly met, and for many years, politically, we could not get that cap lifted because there were not enough votes to do it, and or a governor that would support signing that additional law into effect. At what point did you say, ok. We have this signature achieved in michigan and others after that, when do you say weve got to create a National Movement . I was involved roughly at the same time with a couple of National Organizations that were advocating for these same types of policies in states around the country. They were allstate focused efforts, but they were National Organizations that targeted efforts in the state, that developed into well, in 2000, we led an effort in michigan to change our constitution. We have what is called a super plain amendment, which is a strict prohibition against public funds going by any matter or means to a nonpublic, nongovernment school. We led an effort with many others in michigan to change the constitution to allow for families living in districts that graduated less than 50 of their kids to choose another school, because there was a clear delineater. Not surprisingly, the Teachers Union managed to spend more money than we were able we had a wellfunded campaign, but more was spent. Of course, the issue totally office gated off you skated the file onto that, after the initiative was defeated, i said there is too much Energy Around this. We are not going to give up. I started great Lakes Education project, with the specific goal of supporting legislators that supported the expansion of Charter Schools. That was so successful in one cycle that we took that nationally, in what has ultimately become the American Federation for children began. Fastforward, you wind up, you tell the story in the book of the day after the election, jeb bush called you in 2016, he emailed me. I got an email from jeb the morning after election day in 2016. You had worked with him before. I was on his board. We had worked together closely for many years. He was such a champion for education freedom in florida as governor that my admiration for his courageousness early on in those kinds of policies was very, very high. Anyway. The email was very simple, one line. Would you ever consider being secretary of education . Literally, i have never, ever thought about that. Woah. Sorry. I was on my way earlier in the morning, the story is in the book. I was on my way to indianapolis to have a daylong of meetings with legislators and school reformers there, i said to my colleague, look at this. This is really funny. It was later in the day after ahead after i had a chance to talk with nick dick, i said i was going to respond. He said, yep, that would be the response. I sent back and said, i never thought about it, but if i had the opportunity, how could i not consider it . I want to fastforward to covid. For a number of years, i think you and others involved in the Education Reform Movement have been waiting for that moment where everyone was going to wake up to the negative influences of Teachers Unions, to a real sense of disconnect that many parents have and what is actually going on in the classrooms. Then, covid put the Teachers Union under a norm is pressure. Because so much learning move virtually, they got to see what their kids were being taught. Or not being taught. It would have been tough to imagine that that would be the moment that wakes up the movement. Lets talk about when you started to realize, wow. There is a Parent Movement in response to the pandemic, even after working on this for decades. That happens to be the trigger that created this movement. As early as may of 2020 after we had had the two weeks of spread, then two weeks, then two more weeks and it became clear that most schools were not looking for Actual Solutions to getting their kids back in the classroom and in person, while we knew that many students in European Countries were back or hardly ever even missed any in person education. I said early on in may that i believed the Teachers Union was a school union, as i like to refer to them. They do not reprimand teachers, they were going to double down and they were going to overplay their hand. At every step of the way, they have. For more than two years, they have. Parents had a front row seat in the failings of the system that many of us have seen for decades before, became clear to parents across the country. Whether it was the extent of lockdowns, the mask mandates, the in person distance, out of class distance learning, the back and forth, the curriculum that they were appalled by or curriculums they were disappointed by because of lack of rigor or excellence or whatever, it is multiple pieces and parts of that. Families were really upset, and rightfully so. I talked to friends of mine, they were not tuned into the curriculum, meaning some of the crazy stuff being taught to their kids. It wasnt until the kids, they could actually sit in virtually on these classrooms, walking by these kids computer while they were sitting there and seeing what is being taught, or their kids would unload at night eating dinner because people families were spending so much time together. Were you, before that, aware of how problematic the curriculum was . This ended up being the trigger to rip it open, or did you think things were brewing before covid about concerns on the curriculum . They were brewing before covid, but they came much more defocus. I think the acceleration in the presentation of both curriculums happened in an environment where those presenting them thought this was going to be a great thing in response to what was going on in our country. Instead, it has poked the sleeping bear. Then, seeing how parents who have gone to School Board Meetings have been turned away and told to go back home, do not stick your nose in where it is not welcome, essentially. Or, having the ei sent the fbi sent to investigate them if they are raising their voice is too much. You cannot make this stuff up. The doubling down on how to turn on what should your allies, against you. They succeeded in doing it, which is why the moment is right for the policy changes that we have long advocated. Policy changes you advocated. President biden apparently is going to take a very interesting interpretation of title ix, what the administration puts forth going forward. Before we get to that, you also worked aggressively to unwind some of what the Obama Administration has done on title ix. Talk a little bit about that. For those not familiar, title ix is the law that texts or guarantees individuals of both sexes equal opportunity to access education. That has of course expanded into womens sports. In the Obama Administration, there was a letter issued to all institutions telling them how they were to handle matters of Sexual Misconduct on their campuses. They did away with due process protection for individuals accused of doing something. There were hundreds of legal cases brought about the mishandling of these situations on campuses. More than half the cases were just guided in huge favor or settled out of work. So it was very clear that this was not a system that was working. Not to mention the fact that the letter was not the law. But they used boeing tactics of opening investigations on schools and really intruding on institutions with just the threat of one of these suit. Suits. We took a very methodical approach to first of all withdrawing the letter and then telling everyone that we were going to go about rulemaking in the fashion dictated by the federal law. The process is a cumbersome, burdensome one. But we did it, we crossed every tv, dotted every i. Were thoughtful and careful about putting together a rule that is fair and protects the rights of both individuals in a complaint situation and importantly provides a reliable framework for the institution to follow. So, it has the force of law, currently. The Biden Administration is now promising to put forward a new rule. It will be interesting to see how they think this will abide by legal principles. And in addition it is rumored to expand the definition of biological sex to gender identity and basically anything that you define that you want to be at any given time. And so, this is, this is problematic and it is something we should all be ready to fight in every way possible. Before we open up to audience questions i have a few more. What accomplishment from your tour of duty are you most proud of . And what is one that you, you tried to advance but and why . I would say most out of generally, big picture perspective, really orienting everything we did, although rulemaking, all the deregulation, every move we made was oriented around doing the right thing on behalf of students and not, you know, institutions or buildings. Thats a very different approach than what previous administrations and the Current Administration have taken. Generally, but specifically, title ix rulemaking and the results of that, im very proud of that as well. What i lament that we did not get done was the passage of the, of a federal tax audit that would come alongside states lamenting education Freedom School choice programs to give them a boost in the efforts and allow for more students to access the freedom they need. I have said it for and i will say it today. Its not a matter of if, its when. A similar bill was just introduced this last week and i have a lot of confidence in the house and senate i have a lot of confidence and i think, i know there is a lot more support for and attention being paid to the necessities of that today. We are going to open it up. If you have a question, i guess just raise your hand. We will have mikes moving around. Theres one right there. What effect massive influx of young kids who cannot speak english in poor communities . They are not sending them to the private schools. They are going to send them to the schools in small towns that are having trouble as it is. Why isnt anyone talking out about that . To the disgrace of medicine, no one has said anything about several Million People coming in here unvented, unvaccinated. There a