Transcripts For CSPAN3 Book Discussion On Astoria 20160813 :

CSPAN3 Book Discussion On Astoria August 13, 2016

So im going to tell some stories, and you oregonians may know some of the stories, and you may not know others. But ill start with how i came to this story. And, actually, whats surprising about it is how this story was very well known in its day. In 1836 when Washington Irving was commissioned by John Jacob Astor to write the story of these events 20 years after they occurred, irvings book, also called astoria, was a best seller of 1836. And those events have been largely forgotten in the american consciousness. I think you in oregon know a little bit more about them or im sure some of you know a lot more about them. But in the national consciousness, theyre largely forgotten, except among historians and people who really follow western history. So it is a really important story. Its historically significant, and its a great adventure story. And thats partly what attracted me to it. And its also a story that i feel needs to be told because those events have had a big impact on the shape of the north American Continent, and on the course of american empire. These events that happened over these three years from 1810 to 1813. So i stumbled across this story just kind of randomly. And there are many things about being a freelance writer which i have been for almost 30 years now, that are a struggle. You know, uncertain income, uncertainty of all sorts. But one of the delightful things about being a freelance writer is how one story, one idea can lead to another. And thats what happened in this case. And so in, what was it, seven or eight years ago i was working on my last book doing research, a book called the last empty profiled fourch i really unpopulated areas of the country. And, of course, one of them, of those unpopulated areas of the country had to be Eastern Oregon as im sure some of you can guess. And one evening, i was going down an empty highway in oregon and it was getting dark and it was starting to think that would that i would have to sleep on the side of the road. But i did come across a hotel. And i spent the night there. And i had some gratitude for that place to spend the night there. And when i woke up, i thought my how did the town get the name of john day . I know you all heard of that town and the river, many things in oregon are named john day. But im not sure Everybody Knows how they got their name. So i did a little bit of research in john day. Historicalnearby society. And it turned out that john day was one of these original historians that was part of this huge overland expedition sent by John Jacob Astor from new york, in 1810, to found the First American colony on the west coast, and what they hoped would be a transit pacific transpacific trade empire. John day, i did not know the story at that point, i just knew that he was this guy that had i am trying to think where his trauma started. He was a kentucky hunter. , nearlynded up being starving to death, poisoning himself with root that he byught was edible, survived shooting a wolf and eating the skin, which he was helped by a number of indians and he was left behind by his main party. Through thered winter, trying to find the tracks of his party. And indians he thought would help him, stripped him of all his clothes and sent him into the wilderness with nothing. And after that, john day was just about done with the wilderness. He was traumatized and it turned out that he eventually had to go back the same way that he had came and he pretty curly ready curly that clearly had symptoms of ptsd and he tried to shoot himself. He did not succeed, he survived. And then he was sent back. And ive read the story of john day and i thought, that is one incredible story. To have a town named after that. And the more i look into that story, i realized that this was just one little tiny part of this huge undertaking that John Jacob Astor had sent to the Pacific Coast. So that got me intrigued. The more i looked into it, the more i started to look at it like, this is a story that should be told in a book. I am an adventure writer and these are the stories i love, so i took it on as a book project. And fortunately i found a very willing publisher with harpercollins. In the introduction you heard about what the exhibition was. Had a vision of a global trade empire on the pacific rim, this was five years after lewis and clarke came out here. And Thomas Jefferson had the same vision. And John Jacob Astor came up with the idea and approached jefferson with it. They met in the white house and jefferson gave his endorsement. And it was John Jacob Astors idea to capture all of the furs in the western part of the continent. He wanted to follow them through a settlement at the mouth of the clubby river and sell them to china. Would china, these furs fetch extremely high prices, because the chinese mandarins used sea otter furs, extremely luxurious, Something Like 100 million hairs per square inch to make the finest codes of any codes coats in the world. John jacob astor, he was not the first on the west coast, but he was one of the earlier ones and he came up with the idea of sending trade goods from new york around cape horn by ship to the mouth of the columbia, trading them to the coastal indians that were here for first. Furs. ,nd then taking them to china trading them to the chinese for a criminal markups four incredible markups, and then taking the luxury goods of china like porcelain and soaks si lks, back to london and new york. So he wanted a fleet of ships circling the globe continuously and trading goods all along the way, each with an incredible markup. And Thomas Jefferson had a vision of, he was hoping that astors settlement would be the first seeds of an american, or of a democracy, he was not even saying it was an american democracy. He thought it would be the first seeds of a democracy on the west coast. And Something Like a sister democracy to the United States. Spread toacy would the east and the two of them would join in the middle and make a whole country of democracy. So that is the background. So what i will do is, i will about ile bit will be reading a snippet about the characters. That is what attracted me to the story. There are some really distinctly different leaders, different personalities and they react in very different ways in these circumstances and their personalities and reactions in these, in the course of these expeditions going across the country, determined and a lot of what happened in the years to follow and actually the decades that followed. So in some ways, you can trace history back to the pivotal moments, but in some ways these personalities shaped our destiny as a western empire on the continent. One i will read is a woman that some of you in oregon may know, named marie dorian. She was the wife of peter pierre dorian, and he was a translator. There were two expeditions, one another. And and he was the interpreter for lewis and clarke about five years earlier. Waspeter dorian junior married to marie dorian who was a native American Woman from the iowa tribe. And dorian insisted that his wife come along, even though she was not enthusiastic about the idea. She had two small toddlers, two boys, and she also learned that she was pregnant and route. She ended up, her story is like sacagawea several times over, she has the most incredible survival story you can imagine. Missoula, where i am from, a historian, Sally Thompson has studied a lot about lewis and clarke and pointed out to me as i was researching the story that sacagawea and marie dorian probably meant, almost surely met, and that got me interested in doing the research to see if they did. And they certainly did, they were in the same camp. This is when sacagawea was going back up river to, i think to the villages, and marie dorian was with a party that was going up the river for the first time. So sally said, well, i have boys wondered what sacagawea said to marie dorian, and wouldnt that be an interesting conversation to overhear . So i have tried to speculate a little bit. Is, i am, this speculating. This is a nonfiction book. Whatever happened, happened club that i say that this is one likes to think what they might have said to each other. It is likely marie dorian and the sacagawea knew each other, two women and a small settlement. Both interpreters in the firstrate. What would sacagawea have told marie dorian . It will be very long, and very difficult to reach the ocean. You and your children will suffer. By then, five years after the journey with lewis and clark, sacagawea had adopted european dress and manners. She may have understood that whites with powerful guns and endless numbers and the urge for farmland in profit, had just begun their long reach toward the western ocean. She may have understood that these first expeditions going west, represented the beginnings of the end for her people and their ancient way of life. Her saying to marie dorian, do not go. [laughter] , because theym will go to our homeland no matter if we join them or not. Or, you will see amazing things. Organizing into four riverboats that had 20 tons of goods and equipment and a sales. The Overland Party and barks from the winter camp on april 21, april 1911. They hope to reach the pacific as they expected, in late summer or autumn. So the second passage im reading takes place as theyre going up the river from their winter camp which is a little, about 400 miles upriver from st. Louis. And as i mentioned that they were to follow the lewis and clark trail which, of course, goes up the missouri and then over the northern be rockies to the columbia and down the columbia. Well, they went up the missouri and the further they went, the they heardtories about the ferocity of the indians at the headwaters of the missouri. The leader of the party was a young, new jersey businessman wasd wilson prize hunt, who known as a nice guy, very serious minded and very conscientious. He liked to lead by consensus. But he had a great shortcoming. He had never been in the wilderness before. Astor chose him that he would remain chosen because he knew that he would remain loyal to him. Best inooking for the the firstrate business and those happened to be for trade business and happened to fur traders, but they were loyal to the crown. So he had hunt leader the party, it was about 60 people. That is huge. Several scottish family, and hunt and his. And dorian and that family. So as they are going up the river, they are hearing the stories about the first of the tribe. Problems, one small scouting party had killed two young blackfeet and they had left a jefferson medal hanging around one of the next of the s of thet neck blackfeet and then fled the territory. And the blackfeet were still very angry about that insult. So there is a Previous Party going up the columbia at the headwaters going up the missouri, at the headwaters, and it had disappeared. And nobody knew quite what happened. So as the party is going up the missouri, one day in may of 1811, they are sitting on the riverbank dressing after the morning rowing. They are having breakfast and a c two canoes coming down the two canoes coming down the river and a signal them and it turns out there are three kentuckians that are survivors of the massacre of the missouri. And one of them is wearing, a 66yearold kentuckian is wearing a scarf around his head. And underneath, he has been scalped and he has survived. Scalped inally been ohio earlier, but he did survive this massacre. This impressed deeply on hunt and the three trappers said, you do not want to go to the headwaters of the blackfeet, the headwaters of the missouri, but we know a better way. We know a way that you can leave the missouri strike out the , over land come across several Mountain Ranges and we think we can take you to a river that is part of the headwaters of the columbia. We think we can get you there. And that meant for wilson price striking out into what appeared to be 1000 miles of totally unchartered terrain. So hunt, the serious conscientious business man had to deliberate what to do. So that is the next passage im decision in the situation. Before the boats made progress upriver and under sale that day, the day that they had breakfast and a method trappers coming down under sail that day and , camp that night may 27, 1811 on little cedar island, there milesw an estimated 1075 up the river from st. Louis. The island was a botanical wonderland that grew in the center, surrounded by vines and flowers. Voyagers and woodsmen chopped new mass from the cedars to replace the damaged ones. , while theyists scrambled about collecting plants, hunt was distracted by his own problems. He had to decide whether to turn from the missouri. The best possible routes became a subject of anxious inquiry, he wrote that night camping on cedar island. He questioned the three kentuckians about their proposal and he consulted with two other trappers that had traveled the upper missouri, carson and jones. Mr. Astor introduced him to try to reach a consensus among the partners. Hunt told him, as he would throughout the jury hold them polled them, as they would , on their the journey opinions on which way to go. One picture on the Narrow Island granted a certain safety from indian attack with a large fire throwing yellow sparks toward the diamond bright prairie stars. One woman and two children pressed in toward the comfort. Perhaps they move between the fire and the tens interviewing and deliberating. In the vast prairie night and the whole western continent behind this tiny growing circle of warmth and humanity. Which mountains would let them pass . Wilson price hunt for the first time tasted the unknown. Though though the flavor might intoxicate it intoxicate a young man, hunt who is responsible for a great many people and expectations of great men, found it neither exhilarating or romantic. On the one hand, they were the blackfeet warriors that surely awaited him. And on the other, the wrath of leaving the missouri into striking over land, going south of the blackfeet where the party might wander lost over snowing Mountain Ranges and through the starvation deserts. What might have come as a starting the revelation about striking out into the unknown is that with all the questions confronting one could be monday, this river drainage or another, the implications are profound and sometimes fatal. Decided. G, he had it is not surprising that in the choice between the near certain violent confrontation and confrontation of the blackfeet or venturing out into the great stretch of unknown, he chose the latter. One could call it a bold choice in the spirit of exploration or cowardice or a retreat into the safety of the party and for himself. Whatever their members perspective, he had made the fateful decision. The Overland Party would leave and go to the south of the route, avoiding the blackfeet and going on foot and horseback into the great swath of uncharted terrain. The decision made, hunt sat down to write mr. Astor of his change in plans. Skip back for a moment. Astor had come from germany, and weve all heard the name of the astoria, it is known for his hometown it is named after his hometown. After the new york revolutionary war. He started importing Musical Instruments from england and he exported furs from the north American Continent to london. Met on board the ship that brought them over it over, told him he could make a lot of money doing it. He had spent years laying the groundwork for this huge expedition. In all his meticulous planning and preparation, astor had not allowed for one major factor. Mountain climbers talk about exposure, meaning ones level of risk in a particular situation , on a very narrow ledge for instance, when a small mistake can result in major consequences. In 1810, when john jacob launched his great endeavor, this far edge of the north American Continent with its storms, hostile natives, extreme remoteness, difficult location, dense rain forest, it was as exposed as any inhabitable place on earth. Nor was it possible to predict the possible distorting effect that this degree of exposure would have on the personalities and leadership abilities of the men he had chosen to head the west coast empire. Under extreme stress on each , who succumbed to his own best and worst traits. For anyone that stood to gain for it, his vision was to mesmerizing. His greatest trading scheme harmoniously profoundly joined together the farseeing men. He would dominate the world for her market and the pacific rim trade and reap the profits as would his trade partners. Through John Jacob Astors partners and west coast county president jefferson and his , successors would establish a democratic outpost on the distant Pacific Coast. Jeffersons vision and grace to the entirety of the north america and other corded at the enterprise a powerful role in shaping the continents political destiny. I view your undertaking jefferson would write as the , germ of a great free and independent empire on that side of the continent and at liberty and selfgovernment spreading from that side to this side, will ensure the great establishment over the whole. So there is a lot of weight writing on hunt and his decision. Wrestling on little cedar island with his thoughts. So, another leader in this is scottish a scottish trader known by the name of duncan mcdougall. He was one of the first traders fur traders that was hired from canada, where the real experts were. And there were many different personalities among these traders and many different degrees of expertise. Well im a duncan mcdougall, this sketch of him would be well, duncan mcdougall, this show that he would looked out for himself. Feisty and manipulative. And he had made him the secondincommand of the colony. Hunt was the first in command. ,ut in the absence of hunt astor said that mcdougall should be in charge. What happened with William Price hunt in the party with the three kentuckians, they were supposed to arrive at the mouth of the columbia. It was not a story a at that point a story of at that point. Astoria at that point. And they were supposed to arrive by 1811,

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