Craig here and his family. Zirin its great to see you. And we children and grandchildren if you hear wonderful applause, perhaps not the right moment, thats just a great sound of a granddaughter enjoying her grandfather. So lets celebrate that, too. So please join me in welcoming and our director of scholarly initiatives, dr. Anthony aims to lead the conversation here today on his new book, the search for reagan the appealing intellectual conservatism of Ronald Reagan. And his. Thanks group. Thank you. Thank all right. Well, this is good fun. Yes. And before i even get started on my questions, you all heard my boss. Just give me a task. You you met Ronald Reagan in 1978. We have to hear about that. Have to learn more about your first interaction with reagan. So i guess sure. I was a 21 year old snot nose kid. I was press secretary for a Us Senate Candidate in New Hampshire. But then Gordon Humphrey and i was the actually sixth Campaign Manager or the sixth president was hired by the campaign. But i lasted actually a year and a half with him. But in october, the reagan came up to New Hampshire to campaign for the then governor, mel thompson, and for cut commercials for gordon. For Gordon Humphrey, who was then by that time was a republican. So he came there was in concord, there was an old, wonderful old hotel called the New Hampshire highway hotel. And it was always the same seat of political activity. It was just it was wonderful. It had restaurants and bars and all sorts of things. And reagan came there. We met there. The cuts that you cut, the commercials. And he came two aides and i dont remember who i was probably, mike deaver and peter hannaford, one of them, anyway, but they immediately disappeared. And reagan came early. So he and sat down in the lobby and we talked for 20 minutes. And of course, i had nothing offer this man. I had theres nothing i could do for him. And he was utterly, utterly and funny and wonderful all the way. He was the way you imagine him is exactly the way was was just a selfconfident charming, wonderful man. And we talked about high school and College Sports because he played him, of course, and i did, too. And then we talked about winter. We talked about the snow in New Hampshire. He didnt like the cold. Neither do i. So we just had this lovely conversation, which is which is, you know, a great memory for me. And then he cut the commercials. He did one take. He read the script is a 62nd commercial that i wrote. And he looked at like this and he says, okay, and he cuts commercial. One take just just right. And then he was gone. And then i didnt i met him again many times when he was president or when sareen was running c pac and reagan was always the featured speaker at cpac. So i met him many times. There. And then of, you know, i was just a munchkin. I was not an important person at all. I was just a little dweeb but but he was terrific. And i remember after the presidency going out to to not see me, where was his office, century city and his training century and seeing him out there. And he was just great. He was terrific. But you know, ira, interestingly, probably one of the last people to ever see him before he won seclusion because the alzheimers had been announced about two years earlier, was strange she went out, she was seven months pregnant and out to wash out century city to meet reagan. And he was terrific. He was conversational. He was bond, he was friendly. But the interesting thing is, is that policy is really seven months pregnant. You have to hear and they they had policies that the president did not say in pictures for people who werent in the picture. So i thought, oh, this is ridiculous. I wanted it signed to serene and to natural our our fourth or fourth. Mitchells here today. Mitchells here. Yeah. And so i called mike and i said, mike, can you help me with mike . Mike, mike, mike reagan, can you help me with this . He said, ill take care of it. So two weeks later, i got the picture from, you know, two serene and mitchell, shirley with best wishes. Ronald reagan. Thats a nice memory. You know, i think it sounds like he got his return on investment right . Yeah. 20 of their meeting with the 21 year old d dweeb turned into. But by my count, six books on Ronald Reagan. Yes, thats right. And of course, the last one here is searching for Ronald Reagan. And i think youve probably found him by now. So what i want to know is whats whats new and whats new. You clearly felt there was more to say about Ronald Reagan . You know several years ago actually a, long time ago, i went to a book presentation. My old friend doug brinkley, and he had done he had edited reagan diaries because mrs. Reagan, him on television liked him. He out to meet with her and she hired him. The labor hired him, then the reagan diaries. And so jerry and i went to a presentation. He giving and he said at that time he talked about my new book, which was about the 76 reagan campaign. And he says, you know, the reagan scholarship is just beginning to open up. There are so many interest aspects to this man. You he had six successful careers. He was a prolific letter writer and prolific reader and he was active in so many things happened because of Ronald Reagan was, you know, i cant think of the name of the author but he wrote a book about the essential man. Ill think of it a second, but he wrote making man and reagan oh, the hero in history by sidney hooks. And he wrote he wrote about the event making man and reagan fit that description to a t he you were in the room with him many times and i remember talking to an old friend of mine, paul corbin, who worked john kennedy and we were at lunch one time and i said, you know, the room changes when reagan walks in. I mean, its just electricity. He tips the field and he said, you know, it was the same thing with john kennedy when he walked into a room, there was just electricity in the room. It just changed the dynamics of everything, well, it was dynamics. I liked that word because one of the things and you have the chance to read this book because of course, craig will be signing these books after our conversation here today. But the big theme, this book that comes out time and time again, that reagan has a dynamic mind. Yes, its very to me in your work. Yes, i want to know about how did you come to see dynamic mind . What are the sources that dynamism, you know, anthony, most men and women, but men mostly reach a point in their life where their ideas become settled about 40 years of age. Their view of the world doesnt change. Thats your life. Thats not true. Is reagan. Reagan adopted many of his issues after he was 40. You know, whole idea of tax cuts and remember, once at cpac, where a group of us were talking with him at the reception before the dinner and he said, you know, these tax cuts that im pushing and im proposing are. Yeah, theyre going to help the economy and theyre going to help stimulate the all this other stuff, he said. But really its about empowering. I dont think, to use the word empowering, but he said spending power back to the individual. And he was right. He was right. I mean, this is this this requires a lot of intellect because. He knew that power cannot created or destroyed. It can only be around. And so the time of the new deal up until the reagan presidency, power had been steadily moving from the American People to washington because of regulation, tax policy, even sometimes speech policy, as we had world war two. So this power was always was was coming all washington and reagan wanted to stop that and go back to where the framers and founders were, which is to return to the states. Look out is and ultimately the individual you know thats a thats the thing is that you read his speeches especially his presence how many times he talks the rights and privileges, privacy and dignity of the individual. Well, theres a number of instances in this book that clearly cover new ground and rather than cover greatest hits right, we all know reagan won the cold war. We to hear that we like to hear that story over and. Im glad you said one. And now we go. But rather than cover the greatest hits, i want to get into some of the lesser known stories about reagan. Although i do want to hear some jokes. Okay. I want to get into some of the known stories about reagan. Okay one of the early stories you cover, some of the greatest hits, right reagan was president of the screen actors guild, right . Lesser known in that that he actually led a strike in hollywood. How do you get from leading a strike in hollywood to a strike in the 1980s with the air Traffic Controllers . And whats the journey there . I mean, what what is the i dont know. It is so much of a journey because reagan studied reagan has to realize he was always a revolutionary. He was all of his ideas tax cuts, sdi enterprise zones. It was all new thinking it was all new thinking that introduced to washington and to National Political debate and think that he the strike actually is in with his thinking from the fifties forties up until the eighties which is to challenge exist authority right and we came to washington thats all we did was challenge existing authority was that there was a status quo here that didnt like reagan same all like is that because they challenge it they question it and and the powers that be in washington dont like to be questioned so i dont see i think its pretty unbroken line from leading the strike in the forties to his so challenging the status quo. This is a good way of looking at reagan and one of the ways he challenges the status as you point out is his nomination of sandra day to the Supreme Court. Sure. At the time, its lambasted in kind of more liberal press as being a cynical, you know approach to trying to capture women voters. You have something a little more to say about that nomination, about their kind of background coming together. And she really makes for reagan in a number of ways, hugh, in the 1980 campaign, you know, usually just youd silly political stunts, but in the 1980 campaign, about october, midoctober or werth, one who was his pollster for all those years for governor and president , wonderful guy said, look, were not doing well, women and we need to do something so. They put out a press release, you know, saying, is that reagan would concede. I dont think he actually cornered himself, but he he would consider a woman for the first appointment if hes president the Supreme Court and lo and behold, a year later, hes elected. And then its june, i think, is that the white house smart about this instead of just the pander and saying, okay, we got a woman here, they actually floated three or four names and she was among three men. So that white house could say, look, we picked most qualified individual, not the most qualified woman, but the most qualified individual. And they were right. And it worked. And you they obviously know they had similar backgrounds was from a ranch, a very very rural ranch in arizona, and they didnt have running water. She grew fixing Farm Equipment and tending cattle and things like that. And so, of course, reagan, you know, with his work at the ranch and things like that so there was always a kind of a mutual affection for each other. You know, she was always, always, you know, praise, obviously, of reagan, not overjoyed were reaganesque, but she was good justice. She was good honorable justice. And this is a, you know, we are, um just cover the Sandra Day Oconnor piece in the book and you keep on moving in this book through periods of administration of reagans political career. But again, i dont want to say we forget but that arent as widely known. Yes. And one of those periods one of those moments is reagans decision. Mlk day. Yes. Probably taking a surprise by some of people. Some of the comment, the political at the time that reagans the one who actually authorized this mlk day as a holiday you have a lot new to say on reagans relationship to black america specifically on the mlk day piece. Can you tell me a little more about that. It when pose 20 years ever since his assassination that thered be National Holiday and really fight came down to should we give a paid holiday another paid holiday to federal workers because you know theyre not going to be working were paying them its going to cost a lot of money. There was a lot objection based on that and then there were other objections on various issues. But reagan was very, very you know, he thought it was important. He thought it was important symbolically and substantively did he do this . It passed it when he introduced it pass, you know, one of his biggest allies to getting it passed in the house was newt gingrich. I mean, newt really fought hard. Newt knew at the time even playing the race card used point out fact. He said that, you know, there are all these statues and busts in the capitol, not one africanamerican. You we need we need to rectify that. We need to the contributions of mlk. And again, i think that i think that reagan and mlk would got along very, very well because again he was a revolutionary. He was challenging the status quo. And, you know, a friend, wise friend of mine once said that that quote told me that kings said that in the sixties. He said, the problem with the south is they dont recognize that a black mans park is just as green as a white mans book. But i remember at the time my political mentor, arthur finkelstein, was actually arguing with his client, senator jesse helms, from north carolina, and saying, look, you got stop your opposition. You got to support this. You and and and and the answer from, helms was no. You associated with communist sympathizers. So im not going to change. Im back. I changed. So arthur came out of the meeting without convincing helms and said to his aide, john, he says, you really got to be a radical and not want to pay day off. Well, weve started to talk about congress and weve talked about some of the true conservatives in congress. Helms, gingrich, but reagan is probably best known for working with people who arent true conservatives in congress. And that kind of space of his legacy. What usually talk about when we talk about tip oneill, speaker oneill and Ronald Reagan, it usually is. They were political enemies, personal friends. Know, you to kind of in see invert that yeah yeah you seem to kind invert that so let me hear your inversion here. Is that a myth thats been promulgated in washington for many, many years and spun by people like chris matthews, who wrote that book tipping the gipper, which really wasnt very good, is that they were great friends. They were theyd knock off at 5 00 and go to a bar and drink beer and stuff. Is that true . Is that true . Is that that in his autobiography, man of the house, tip oneill, devoted the entire chapter to how much he hated reagan. He said its the worst president ive ever seen in my life. Nancy, the queen of beverly hills. Bah, bah, bah bah. He went on at length. How much liked reagan, how much he disliked reagan. So its just a myth. They only together really on two deals. And one of them, reagan, they worked together on Social Security reform, which was successful and which was still enjoying the benefits today. And tougher, which was a tax increase. The fall of 1982. And reagan that probably cost the republicans many seats in the governor november i, i was out i was working for the Republican National committee then and i was out in colorado helping to campaign. I get a call from my boss. Ill tell you his name cost me. He says reagan just passed tougher the tax you got to tell your clients to put out a press releases praising the president and i said you want me to tell them praise him for raising taxes. You have three heads. You know its of course i didnt tell anybody to do that. And of course, gingrich the revolutionary delayed tephra for many, many days. And then finally Hundred House members, 104 house members voted against it. And theyre all conservatives. Theyre really based on principle. And reagan regretted that tax increase for the rest his life. Because you know why tip oneill broke his word . Is that tougher . The deal between reagan and tatra supposed to be 1 for tax raises in, exchange for 3 in tax cuts. There was a tax increase, but there were never the tax. There was tax cut. There was a tax. There was never the tax cuts that came tip oneill. There were never the budget cuts. Well, lets dive into this point about taxes. Yes. Okay. So we werent going to cover greatest hits, but i guess well cover a few of the greatest hits. But in the book, you write about reagans campaign, the governorship. Yes, california course. And he campaigns on lowering taxes, as you would expect Ronald Reagan, to campaign on. And the first thing he does in office is raise taxes. So bring us into that episode of the book it showed ill defend reagan of course always defend reagan and show this flexibility of thinking when he ran for governor he did not realize how bad the situation was in sacramento, how the budget was losing 1,000,000 a day, which, you know, the government, thats just chump change, right. But in 1966, it was a lot of money and they were losing it every day. And they also had a 500 million deficit. And reagan came in was told by meese and others said governor, weve got a serious problem on our hands. So he met with jesse unruh is then the speaker of the house who is a very powerful democrat out there very famous. And unruh was urged to run for office. And he said he said means im going to have to give up drinking and women and he also said it was funny guy he also said if you cant take their money you cant take their money and. And drink their liquor and sleep with their women, you shouldnt be in politics. Okay all right. But anyway. So, you know, reagan had had to had to go for a tax increase to cover the shortfall. And i remember telling he told reporters that my were set in concrete, but the sound youre hearing is the sound of my feet cracking the cement cracking. So he did end up with a surplus. And what he did with the surplus, unlike what happens here in washington, all that spending on new program. Lets go to a new agency. He gave a rebate to the taxpayers of california, so it ended up th