At the atlantic council. It is my pleasure to host all of you in our distinguished guest for our panel of conversation today. We pride ourselves on the relationships that we have built with russia independence and voices and Civil Society. We believe that it is our role as a non partisan organization working in a bipartisan way of washington and elsewhere and as our realizization that it is rooted for our friends and colleagues. Last year, we hosted many events that brought together washington, analyst thinkers and policymakers together with russians dependent voices. We also heard from boris daughter who spoke about her fathers assassination of the role of propaganda thats played and atmosphere of environment and hate in russia today. We are also regularly see and honored to host the event here. One of the most prominent independent thinkers of voices and russia today. This is not the first time that we have met our friends from medusa where we were speaking earlier that all of us read medusa, the English Version and the russian version. It is one of the few remaining new source in the russian language today thats won by real professionals and editors that we know we can trust with our news content. Unfortunately, the environment of russia today as many of you know is not one that allows for freedom of expression. For that reason, we are delighted that we are hosting this. A conference that did together of the hiring of both foundation on the rides of different information and influenced of western democracy. The topic that not many people cared about the time and certain ly very interested now. I would like to hand the floor over to our very established and dig a digni dignified. Shes also a fellow of the policy research institute. I will leave it up to them to tell you more of your story. Please remember us to follow it. Without further adieu, melinda, distinguished panelists. Good afternoon and thank you all so much for coming out. We have two of russias top journalists today. We have 60minute with conversations with ivan and 30minute of q a. Now, i understand that you were the editor for an article that you did in the spring of 2014. Kaen y can you tell us more about the event and the response. Thank you for having me here. It is blairing to speak. In 2014, the 12th of march as far as i remember, i was a fire patrol. The official reason was publication but, frankly, it was not. It was not real reasons. It was not the trigger to fight. We had our special correspondence and we covered all the stories. We published a lot of interviews with all sides from armed forces to opposition leaders, and in march as you can recall it was after crimea annexation. The gremlin just wanted to clear up old media space before these i was tired b we received this special warning of russians about publishing the link of the right sector. But, frankly, right sector was put in the black loose. Interesting. I understand about 70 journalists that went to that. What happens to those journalists. You know, they were good. We were number one in russia. We were the most popular and the best ernt. Years before my firing, we did great designs and it worked. It worked with so many solutions. So we received all works. And again, we have the best. So everybody in russia in 2014 wanted in the two weeks, they got their jobs and 15 came with me to establish p english those. Ivon is one of the journalists. I have four persons and i said you should not looking for another drug. I do everything i can do give you job. What was it look to be a journalist in russia . Well, it was one of the best moments in my life actually. Looking back to the events of 2014 because this is exactly that moment when you really understand what you should do. You should b stand up an and because of two reasons. The first reason is that the owners decided to fire which means from my perspective, the second important thing about that is the guy actually replaced on getting in these position. It was the guy who had been working as an editor of chief in small internet newspapers. It is well known as the guy who eats sheep in restaurants. And he actually work in the same company. We owned he worked there as. G artist. As a person whos responsible for the relations of the government as a gr guy. Which means that, nefs t he was not the person that he spoke with his authorities he was like, that kind of guy goes ashd and surrounded boo i the bilgget and most inviting people from the editorials. And i think i will never want to be in his place when he does the editorial stuff. What happened . Did you walk out, was it exciting . People have been screaming. And we have humiliated him. It was a big pleasure to him in asia. Okay, so you all quit. Galina, answer a basic question. What is immediamedusa and whe idea and why did you get it started. I this sided that i should take a breath and cheer taking some baths in those strings of in the category of hungry. And after three days, and all of booze, i was sitting and cry in in the room. I said, where are you . I said i am at the airport, take the taxi, go to the home and well be there. I asked drug and crazy. Yes. I asked kiaw questions, byes, what should we do . We can believe our own lives or tried to do something. He said we have a plenty of chance to make a fresh start with the right purposes and stu with no owner at all, no oligarc oligarchs, lets try. And well try. So let me ask you, i read that 70 of your earnings right now are coming from advertising, which is huge. You guys have only been doing this for a short period of time. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Thats a huge deal. What kinds of companies advertise with you and are there any penalties for Russian Companies advertising with you . I would say the best companies advertise with meduza. Just we started with advertising. Okay. It was funny, and absolutely free of charge for companies, for advertisers, but were trying to direct them. And now we had among our advertisers russian divisions of International Companies like airbnb. Airbnb. Mcdonalds. Mcdonalds, sony, phillips, mercedes, bmw, some banks. And when they saw results, the advertising companies, even russian progovernment banks advertise. For example, we did advertisement for the main state bank in russia. Because we were so stupid to run new media outlet just before economical crisis, just before. But it was cool because all those companies stopped burning money to these outdoor advertisers, advertising, and they decided to put those Advertising Money into something effective. And we showed them. So ivan, you were running the most popular website, in 2014 you move to riga, you have meduza started. How do you cover russia from abroad . Russia is a complicated country. How do you do if . There were skeptical people when we started meduza. I do understand why they were skeptical. When you live in russia, you understand that 90 of the russian economy are actually in moscow, you know, 90 of money are in moscow. 99 of important political decisions are made in moscow. If you want to make media, you have to stay in moscow. There is not any secret, we have journalists on the ground. We have special reporters desk in moscow. And we actually have the Sales Department in moscow, because we are, you know, dealing with Russian Companies who are Russian Department of International Companies. Plus we have network of freelancers. So it works. Actually it was ivans dream to make popular media oud russia. Outside moscow. Outside moscow. From nowhere. Is it like nebraska . Its like nebraska. Its like albuquerque. Albuquerque, okay. Like the dakotas, exactly. Tell us this, galina, do your stories that you break influence russian estate media . And can you give us an example, if you have . We were instigators for russian state media, because they were hunting and catching us with cameras. And they did their prime time programs about us. As top antirussian. Yes. And but now, you know, there is some because at the 26th of march there were huge protests and demonstrations across russia, about 100 cities took part in these demonstrations and protests. And no one from state media covered this situation. There is no programs, no news coverage, no articles, no calls about those protests. And when this propaganda guy, he began to broadcast his weekly prime time program, he put us onto the big screen, because we were the only source of information about protests. He wanted to tell story how they use youngsters to go to the streets to protest against putins regime. But he showed us for long minutes and spoke about all our coverage. And we were the only one source about protests. Did you see a huge spike in your numbers . Yes, absolutely. Really good promotion for us. What kind of numbers did you have during the protests in march . I would say millions of readers. Millions, okay. And when you first started, how did you get the word out that there was this Exciting Website called meduza . We had a lot of publicity because of this story with galina, we were a famous journalist team, actually. We had a lot of attention from russia media and the international media. So we had some row sources in the very beginning. But frankly saying, we started from nothing, from nowhere. This is the problem, actually. When youre working in that huge media as lenteru, which in 2014 was number one media in russia, like russian New York Times, and it had huge audience. I think it was the biggest Russian Media ever, because none of media, after, you know, these events no one could reach our numbers. So there is a problem, because it is the problem which i call the problem of the second album. Because, you know, it is not that hard to record the first good and successful album. But then you start thinking, maybe its about fortune, it just happened, you know, this success is not about us, it is about some condition, some luck. And can we do it for a second time, is it possible to make something the some popular, the same important. But brandnew. But brandnew. And also youre thinking that youre going to become paired with your first child. So how are you doing compared to your first child . We decided to forget about our first child. Dont love your first child. Okay. You mentioned kislyak. What about russia today . I notice in your english newsletter, you have this cute slogan, meduza, the real russia today, obviously a play on rt. How does rt treat you . We live in Different Union versu universes. Rt is made for foreigners. May i say, twitter in russia is much more popular. Yes, exactly. Than the actual content. So a good twitter personality. Sometimes we see hate speeches from twitter. But we dont exist for russia today. Galina, what sorts of stories interest your readers . Tough question. You know, the most popular story as far as i remember was a story about dardaden, a russian activist who was detained twice, against the regime. He was put behind bars for two years. He wrote a letter about tortures in his prison, and we published. And then we began to investigate this case. And we get 1 million views of these article. Wow. And speaking about other stories, you know, most of our audiences are young people, under 35, under 34. Almost 70 of our audience are under 34. So they have no background, soviet background. But when they were born, putin exists. So its putin era. And after 2014, after ukrainian war, there were a lot of white noise around us. We decide to reduce white noise and to really explain what is really happening in russia, what is really important in russia. We began to do exploratory journali journalism, answering questions. Can you give us an example . Do you want anything. Okay. Now, 8th of may, its victory day. We made an embarrassing question. Did russia really invade poland before war . Because we have special law about russian history. Everyone who hesitates about the role of the soviet union in the second world war. And he may be he may be prosecuted as a criminal. Anything has to be explained in russia. For example, the state duma, russian parliament, creates these bizarre law. If youre a teacher and working with children, your pupil ask you about some homosexual affairs, is it fine for you to talk to them about homosexuality, or is it already gay propaganda and you can be prosecuted . That kind of question can be explained. So sometimes you need to explain stupid laws for your young and not only young audience. One of the most popular articles were, police is knocking at your door, what should you do . Was it a list, or how did you tell that story . It was card stocks, Something Like this. Questions and answers. Okay. Okay. It looks similar. Everyone has had that experience who lived in russia. I lived in russia in 2008 and every time someone is at the door, you wonder who is it, exactly. There is a more popular article, like i was detained, what should i do. Are these young people, 70 of your Young Readers are under 34, a young population. Are they mostly reading on their phones and sharing . Yes. And the most popular publications, we do this news gaming for youngsters. We want them to be engaged. We do videogames or games based on real news story. For example, we have special game about Russian Orthodox church. The Russian Orthodox church is deeply involved in all spheres of life. They will interrupt concerts, rock concerts. They banned operas. They smashed modern art exhibitions and so on. So we made special game, when you begin to play, there is some church and school, museum, concert hall, exhibition. You run out of church and you tap to return them to church. You have an achievement, for example you helped when the police found way back to church. We love games. For example, we had one of the most successful, it was one of the most successful quizzes, it was photo quiz. Is it a norwegian prison or its the hotel in russia . I saw that. I saw that. My favorite quiz was made bit brother of alexander odni, why wouldnt he be in prison. So we sent printed we printed our quizzes on the paper, and we send a letter to him. And he wrote a quiz, do you know the rules of the russian prison. This is my favorite. It sounds like your site has a sort of irreverent tone to it, is that right . My point is that russia unfortunately is full of fear. And when people are laughing, they do not feel fear. And we want them to be brave, not to feel fear, not to be scared. Thats powerful, its recall powerful. Ivan, you told the daily beast, you went back home, you turned on the tv and watched a week of state tv, and you said, my god, its changing my views. A russian writer tried something similar, he checked into a new york hotel, ate kobe beef, wanted to see if he changed his mind. He cheated, he logged into lente. Ru, he drank too much. Just like me. We know that tv is powerful, most russians watch it. What advice do you have for us here in washington and in the west . Because its really tricky. We want to support independent Russian Media, but tv is expensive, its hard to get a tv license. Should we focus on supporting online projects like meduza . Where should we be putting our money . You shouldnt be focused on creating new television, because, you know, the trick to be the Russian Television is that youre watching rt and you think that russian tv is like rt. It was not. It was created in the beginning of 1990s. Its a good television. It has good tv shows, it has celebrities, it has good tv series. It is a sophisticated television, its really good, its quality television. The people who are running the state television right now in russia, they started in 1990s. So a lot of people, they didnt even notice that something actually changed. Because you have the same perfect content. And a bit of propaganda, embedded into this brilliant content. Were not trying to reach people who are consuming television as the main source of information. Its just impossible. You cant convince these people to change the habits, especially if youre talking about the older people, you know, the people who lived the biggest part, the heaviest part, the young years was spent in the soviet union. So were not trying to reach these people. So you shouldnt create, you know, alternative western russian speaking media, of course, because youre not going to win this competition with Russian Television. It is better. It is growing from russia. What should you do . I think you should support journalism. I dont believe in any antipropaganda system. I dont think that one propaganda can win another propaganda. Unfortunately putin started years ago. He invested billions of money in creating these media infrastructure within russia and outside russia. So, you know, youre waking up, its 2014, you have rt, you have sputnik, broadcasting all over europe, people are not watching rt, rt is shit. So its too late to create another channel. Youre not ready to spend that size of money as putin spent to Russian Television. So what would you do . I think you have to invest into competitive journalism or do nothing, because, you know im saying about television, because it was a big idea in europe, that europeans have to create a big you know, russian al jazeera, some tv channel which is based somewhere in europe, to make good independent or western news and broadcast to russia and to win, you know, Russian Television that way. Youre not going to do this. You dont have enough money. You dont have enough celebrities. You dont have enough professionals. It is just impossible. Some kind of burning money. Yes. Speaking of impact of Russian Television, last week i saw a poll made by progovernment organization. But they noticed that now only 56 of russians, of russian population, name television as a main source of news. Three years ago it was 83. Its declining impact. It seems to me ivan missed one great point. Nowadays, video and Youtube Channels are extremely popular among russian population. And even local politicians is there trying to be youtube stars. Maybe you could tell us how novolny used youtube during the march protest. A youtube star. Novolny realized theres an alternative television in russia, its video bloggers, theyre stars among the youngsters. They have millions of viewers. And so i think a couple of years ago, novolny decided to invest all free money, all free resources and all free time, into creating their own content for youtube. So it started from i think zero. And he looks like robot, in his first videos. It was pathe