Transcripts For CSPAN3 Homeland Security Secretary Testifies On FY 2018 Budget 20170526

I call this hearing of the subcommittee of Homeland Security in order. This is my first hearing as chairman of the subcommittee and it is the subcommittees first hearing to review the fiscal year 2018 budget request. Which was submitted to Congress Earlier this week. I want to begin by thanking john kelly for being with us today. We know that you are very, very busy and again appreciate you being here. Secretary kelly, we do understand the demands on your schedule and your testimony is what is what is your first appearance before a subcommittee in your new role. I would also like to welcome our s subcommittee Ranking Member, from montana, senator tester and im pleased that senator layhe, the vice chair of the full committees has joined us. We keep america safe by manage our air land and seaboarders and administer our laws and critical assets an prepare for and respond to disasters. The tragic events in Manchester England remind us on why we must secure our homeland. Mr. Secretary youve dedicated your career to our National Security interest and in just a few months youve proven your ability to lead the department dowering a challenging time. This subcommittee will work to support you and the men and women of the department who are working every day to keep us safe. The department is being called on by this president to refocus resources on certain National Security risks and to redouble efforts to enforce our immigration laws. We look forward to learning more about how the department proposes to address these needs while ensuring we do not neglect the other Critical Missions of the department. This budget request gets many things right. Weve seen over the past few months Border Security and Immigration Enforcement are closely related as the new administration is demonstrating there are consequences for those entering and staying the country illegally with illegal border crosses dropping to historic lows. Your budget proposes increases funding from customs and Border Protection and immigration and Customs Enforcement service for both man power and infrastructure to continue to reduce illegal border crossings. In order to better understand these requirements, and make the right choices, the subcommittee must get a more comprehensive plan from the department that details how we could be smart about investing in Border Security and interior enforcem. Another key component to securing our boarders is the United States coast guard which is budget supports. In fiscal year 17 this subcommittee delivered significant investments to enhance the capability of the coast guard. We identified funding to continue the modernization of the surface and air fleets and we partnered with our defense subcommittee to begin acquisition of a new polar ice breaker. Well have to work again to provide the resources necessary to ebb to enable the coast guard to continue protecting our borders and conducting search and rescue missions and ensuring the safe navigation of our waterways and maintaining our defense readiness. This Budget Proposal appropriately acknowledges that the federal government Cyber Network is under constant attack. Im pleased to see that the request has prioritized funding for all four phases of the continuous diagnostics and Mitigation Program other federal agencies must move past the official cdm kick start provided by the department and begin properly budgeting for their own investment and utilization of the system. In order to realize its full benefit. Youve rightly noted in your testimony and through this Budget Proposal that the departments workforce is the most valuable resource and that taking care of the people that work to keep us safe each day is a top priority. I hope we will Work Together to ensure the department could enforce workforce recruitment and development and retention. Were aware of the unique stresses caused by the intense 2016 president ial Election Campaign and additional duties, increased travel, on going investigative work and the inherit requirement of protection has stretched the secret Service Force thin. These are the brave men and women would put their lives on line every day to protect our top leaders and to prevent in r interference with our most critical institutions. That in the recently enacted appropriations bill will make a difference for the men and women of the secret service. The workforce challenge command the department and hire and retain more custom and Border Patrol agents and more experts and cyber professionals. We want to help you make the department of Homeland Security the best place to work in the entire federal government. While this Budget Proposal makes some smart choices, there are also parts of it that are unworkable. Whether we are talking about a hard working arkansas family, or one of the largest departments in the federal government, when it comes time to develop a budget, tough choices have to be made and i have no doubt that many tough decisions were made in preparing the request. But many of the choices reflected in this budget put this subcommittee in a difficult position. For instance, it assumes statutory changes to programs that congress would almost be certainly unable to enact before the fiscal year. From the proposed increase to Airline Passenger fees to the significant reductions to assistance store state and local partners to the failure to invest adequately in research and development, this budget fails to take into consideration many practical realities. We ask for your cooperation as we consult with you and your staff to make the necessary adjustments to allow this budget to work despite the significant challenges. We will likely face a very tough appropriations cycle. We will certainly be urged to restore many of the significant reductions proposed by this budget. And ab sent some significant change to the availability of resources, we are not going to be able to fund all of the priorities that it outlines. Congress will have to make these decisions based on shared priorities and with an eye toward riskbased distribution of limited resources. We know we can count on your partnership and guidance throughout this process. Again, mr. Secretary, we appreciate your testimony and your willingness to answer questions for members of the subcommittee and i will now turn to our distinguished Ranking Member senator tester. And then to our full Committee Chairman senator cochran and then to our full Committee Vice chairman senator layhe for any opening remarks they have before asking secretary kelly to proceed with his testimony. Then well allow each senator seven minutes for any statements or requests they may have. Senator tester. Yeah, thank you, chairman boseman, i appreciate your leadership. And good morning mr. Secretary and welcome. We are here today of course to examine the dhs budget for fiscal year 2018 and i think the importance of this budget is reflected in the fact that we have the chairman and Ranking Member of the full committee here today. I would be remiss if i didnt first say that our thoughts are with the folks in manchester, u. K. And those effected by a senseless act of violence last monday. Before we get into your budget, mr. Secretary, i want to note that the president s budget cuts nop defense Discretionary Spending by 1. 5 trillion over 10 years including 54 billion in fy 18 in part to help pay for the proposed wall in the southern border. This is not a serious proposal and would be debtry amount to the nations security and Small Business and agriculture and education and mr. Secretary, your department is one of the few nondefense discretionary agencies to receive an increase. And in the present fiscal year 2018 request. In total, the request includes 44. 1 billion in increase of over 1. 7 billion over the fiscal year 17 act that we passed a few weeks ago which was 1. 4 billion over the previous year. The department that you lead, though, has a multitude of diverse missions. Including border and migrant security, immigration security, protecting our Computer Networks from Cyber Attacks and making sure that air travel is secure helping communities prepare for and respond to natural or manmade disasters and monitoring our coastlines and our waterways to save lives, intercept Illegal Drugs and prevent bad actors from innovating our ports. The lyons share for dhs is dedicated to Border Security and Immigration Enforcement on the heels of the 1. 5 billion in fy 2017 omnibus. Look, i support efforts to strengthen or border but it needs to be done in a smart way. I am concerned about what is missing in this budget when it comes to your other priorities. Priorities like Aviation Security. Maritime security, cyber security, preparing our communities for natural disasters in the possibility of a terrorist attack. First off, though, the threat to aviation is very high. Weve had classified briefings on this, in fact. But we also see budget cuts to several tsa security programs. Second, the budget realized on a faulty assumption that an unauthorized Aviation Security fees will be enacted to offset 530 million in budget authority. Third, this budget slashes fema preparedness grants by 30 . And state and local training by 40 . While threats are more diverse than other. And fourth, and equally troubling, is the research and development is cut by 21 at a time when we need it be developing leap ahead technology to stay ahead of our adversaries. I dont think there is a briefing that i go to, whether it is this or military, that dont talk about the fact that our adversaries are advancing quicker than we are. To cut this budget does not make any sense to me, at all. Finally, on Border Security, weve all heard from the president , the wall the wall, the wall, and frankly i think we need a better strategy, one more Cost Effective and focuses on Proven Technology and one that improves metric and respects private property rights. I havent seen such a plan but i guarantee i will continue to press for one. We cant spend billion dollars on the wall at the expense of local Law Enforcement, firefighters or airport security. And im not convinced that the president s budget makes the veems needed to keep the investments needed to keep america safe. It is critical that the Appropriations Committee take the appropriate time to work diligently and pass a budget that strengthens our National Security and secures or borders. I know that the chairman has a commitment to that. When i voted to for your confirmation, mr. Secretary, and i could do it again today, and i said youre one of the adults in the room that i am dependent on to make good decisions for this security and i still believe that. Thank you and i look forward to this hearing. Thank you, senator tester. Chairman cochran. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for chairing the hearing and we appreciate your leadership. And we welcome the secretary. And we wish you all of the best. We want to know what the priorities are for funding, we dont have enough money to do everything for everybody who who have requests to make of the funding that was in this committee. But thank you for being here. Were anxious to hear your comments about appropriate levels of funding and the priorities that we need to consider in the writing of this appropriations bill. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Vice chairman mr. Leahy. And thank you for the opportunity to make a couple of brief opening remarkz. Secretary kelly, thank you for being here today. There are many issues to discuss, not the least of which is the topic of the todays hearing, the budget the president s Budget Proposal. Which is just delivered to us on tuesday, including his plans for the department of Homeland Security. Secretary kelly, ive known you a long time and been an admirer of yours and i know when you were in the marine corp, so i will do what marines are expected to do, to speak frankly. I think this Budget Proposal can be summed up pretty quickly. Abysmal. Im not surprised that the budget before us proposes billions of taxpayer dollars to build a misguided wall, on the southern border to fund the president s deportation force. Executive orders mandating these things were among the first things that President Trump did when he took office. Now the orders may have fulfilled a promise on the campaign trail, neither will do much to enhance our National Security or Homeland Security oref forces to address the efforts to address the valid concerns with the immigration system. So instead of focusing on real threats. The administration has sought to demonize migrants, demonize those of certain religions, drive them into the shadows, isolate our country, alienate our trading partners to the north and south, and throw taxpayer money to problems requires a serious and meaningful and realistic and practical solution. Im sure you came here today to talk about the southern border. I hope youre prepared to talk about our need as long the norther border as well. Vermont is a border state. I live an hours drive from canada. Our largest trading partner is canada. Our communities strive and on economic fusion we get from canadians coming to vermont and to explore our great Lakes Champlain and to do business involved in numerous manufacturing jobs in vermont. But vermont is taken a hit because of the president s action. Our economy is weakened by his action. Fewer people want to come and visit and spend money in our state. I hear story after story of problems crossing our border, which i mentioned is only an hour from my home. With the kind of delays they are having. Delays they cannot understand. And for all of this, were not more secure. I mean meanwhile, the trump budget cuts billion dollars from food and medical research and Affordable Housing and Heating Services and Victim Services and legal services, education programs, slashes foreign assistance, assistance that mattis said is critical to our National Security. Now the president may claim that this budget advances the security of the American People, in reality, it makes millions of americans less secure and in their daily lives. So i say that ive known you a long time. I supported your nomination. But this budget this budget is really a disserveice to the American People and as vice chairman of the committee, i will work with republicans and democrats to put together a budget that puts americans put americans first. And mr. Chairman, i thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, senator leahy. Lets go then to our questioning phase. And mr. Secretary, while it may be too early to declare victory, it is worth noting that the posture you have taken at the department has resulted in the lowest rate of the illegal border crosses weve ever seen. The change has been remarkable. Im sorry. We need your testimony first. So lets go to the testimony, as you could see were were anxious to get out of the block. We have a lot of questions. But again we need to hear from you first. Thank you. Yes, senator. And chairman boseman and Ranking Member tester, and all of the distinguished members of the committee and subcommittee, it is a pleasure to be here to answer questions but most importantly in my mind to represent the men and women of the department of Homeland Security. I believe as i know you do that the role of government first and foremost is to security people. The secure home land is one of pros port where legal trade and travel add to our national economy. Where legal trade a secure land is one of freedom where american citicitizens could go about their lives and one of law chz we enforced to keep our Community Safe. And so it is a great honor and privilege to appear before you today to discuss the member and women of the department of Homeland Security and the Critical Missions they carry out every day in service to the nation. On a sad note, and one that makes the point tragically, just last night we lost one of our cvp officers down in texas and in el paso. Stabbed repeatedly in the face by a a Cartel Member that he identified himself to and he lost his life. The president s fiscal year 2018 budget request for the department of Homeland Security is never enough. But i think it is sufficient to allow me and the men and women to do our jobs. We know that the threats are out there. We know that our aviation, Transportation System in particular is a top prize in the eyes of terrorist organizations. We know that Transnational Criminal Organizations are bringing drugs across the borders in massive amounts by land and sea and air. We know that our nations Cyber Systems are under constant attack. We know that natural disasters deaf tate American Home towns and we also know that dhs is up to the job of protecting the United States against all of the threats and many, many more. Just last week the coast guard cutter hamilton off loaded more than 18 tons of cocaine that they had seized in International Waters off the pacific ocean. That is roughly the weight of 9 cars and it is worth an estimated half a billion dollars. The week before that, may 8th through may 14th, tsa discovered 76 firearms in passengers seeking to board aircraft. Loaded firearms. And in six weeks, i. C. E. Arrested more than 1300 gang members in a nationwide Gang Enforcement operation. Were making a difference. Were making our nation more secure. But we need a fully funded budget that matches our mission without continuing resolutions and i think this budget approaches that. The president s fy2018 budget question of 44. 18 billion in net discretionary funding for the department of Homeland Security, it also requests 7. 4 billion to finance the cost of emergencies and major disasters and fema Disaster Relief fund. When you are talking about numbers like that, it is easy to lose sight of what is behind each and every dollar. But when you get right down to it, behind each and every dollar are hard working men and women who have dedicated their careers to protecting the American People and taking dangerous criminals off the streets and keeping terrorists out of our countries and drugs off of our streets. They are in vesting investmenting crime investigating crimes and making sure passengers get to destinations safely and responding in the wake of natural disasters and patrolling and main taging our water ways that support 4. 5 trillion in Economic Activity every year. Every dollar invests in the men and women of dhs and the tools an infrastructure and equipment and training they need to get the job done is an investment in prosperity and freedom and the rule of law. It is an investment in this security of the American People. There is no greater responsibility as i mentioned in a time of no greater need. I would be remiss if i did not mention the taste attack in manchester as you did. Our friends in the uk suffered a terrible loss. Their enemy is our enemy. The u. S. Government continues to work furiously with the british, the fbi, the Intelligence Community and dhs and others to assist in the investigation in any way we can. For my part, i immediately called the home secretary and offered our nations condolences and asked if there was any help that we are not getting from the United States. I want to assure you that the as this enemy is evolving, becoming more reprehensible and even targeting children, dhs is working every day to meet the threats. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today and i thank you for your continued support. I remain committed to working with congress and perfectn protecting the American People. And sir, i stand by to answer any questions. Thank you, mr. Secretary. And we do appreciate your testimony, very very much. And this and your written testimony. And while it may be early too early to declare a victory, it is worth noting that the posture youve taken at the department along with the hard work of the men and women that of the agency has resulted in the lowest rate of illegal border crossings weve ever seen. The changes have been remarkable. Your budget request increases funds for customs and Border Protection to secure the southwest land border. But your entire department is tasked with keeping bad people and bad things out of the United States. The question i have is it correct to think of what is being referred to as the law as an entire Border Security that includes people, technology and physical barriers intended to control who and what comes into the United States. Im sorry, i missed part of the question. Well, again, the wall, which we hear constantly referred to. Yes. Is it correct that this Security System is part of the entire apparatus that includes people, technology, physical barriers to control who and what comes into the United States. Yes, sir. As im sure the senator knows, the committee knows that, that right now we have about 650 miles of the border covered with some type of physical barrier. Where there is physical barrier, where it makes sense, it really does work. The first thing i did and i continue to do on this topic and many others is to talk to the people that actually execute the policy down on the border. So immediately after taking office, i visited the texas and the arizona border and been back down a couple of types to visit Additional Border sites. Ive spoken to mayors, big city mayors or mayors down along the board and the police officers, local Law Enforcement as well as the my people, cvp, customs and Border Protection and they all believe that physical barriers would really enhance the Security Mission that they do every day. So we have 650 miles of some type of barrier there now. We want to improve on that. Im already asking, as i say, the cvp professionals where do you want wall right away. In some cases, they say the part of the border that i patrol, we dont see much need for a wall in this region. In other places, theyll theyre very precise, if you could give me like 13 more miles of wall, or 26 more miles of wall, but i say wall, physical barrier. So they know what they want. And i want to support them. In south texas, as an example, down there, southern rio grande valley, a wallwall concrete structure makes sense because there is wall there now and it reinforces the levee system in that region. Other parts of the border where were already having what is called ball ward fencing that is up, picture a big metal fence kind of picket fence. The members of cvp generally speaking want to be able to see through the structure, whatever it is. For two reasons. That they see people congregating on the other side or movement on the other side and by the same token, people on the other side could see them and they are deterred from trying to get into the country. And so were looking at it. I think the committee knows that we have were working with construction proposals right now to decide what works best and as i say, in many places it may be a concrete structure, in other places, a petal barrier fencing type structure. We are looking at that. And then through all of that, of course, we need the professional cvp working the border, whether there is a wall or a structure there and technology plays in this as well. So the whole structure or the whole issue of Border Protection in my view does, in fact, require physical barrier where it makes sense. Certainly technology where we can employ it. And then finally backed up by the patrolled by the great men and women of cvp and the rest of dhs. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, the recently enacted appropriations bill requires that you provide a c e comprehensive plan to congress that details exactly how we intend to secure the southwest land borders and you talk about it a little bit then. Do you anticipate this plan will call for Different Solutions and at different places. So as you mentioned, at some point i guess what we would like to know is when we will receive that plan, were very interested in actually seeing that on paper. I understand the concept. I think what you said, the committee would agree with, that we have all of these things, really including the personnel, whether it is research, cyber, all of these things that have to do with securing the border, but at what point will be able to actually see the plan. As soon as i can complete it. And im not making a joke. It is 2,000 miles of border and literally as i say, there are places where we need either technology, more people, or physical barrier. There is places there that cvp tell me, sir, we need it right away. There are other places that we dont need it for a year or two or three. So as we put this plan together, well come and brief it and i think youll be impressed. No, i think that is an excellent answer. Again, the fact that one size doesnt fit all as you look at the challenge. The federal governments Computer Networks are under constant attack. We have worked with the department to ensure the continued deployment of capabilities like continuous dyi diagnostics and frustrated by the ability to maintain a predictable schedule and to urge other agencies to chip in and adopt the technology and are we making progress on phase three and embarking on phase four of the cdm program and what is the department doing to encourage other departments and agencies to assume more responsibility for the funding of cdm beyond the initial phases . It is not moving fast enough. 120 days on the job, it is a priority, clearly it is a priority for the president , one of the things, not that i needed the help, because there is a new team, a fresh team in place that recognized the issues so the threats of when i say a knee team in place, everyone from well all of the department, all of the department heads, my fellow cabinet members, throughout the government. So they understand the threat, they understand the need for it. And the president put out a a cyber executive order but were pressing forward on that. And i know youre frustrated. It is one of those things that were working very hard to change. In fact , i would just mention, to try to change we are changing the attitude within my department toward this institution. That is the United States congress. The one thing that was constant during my period of office calls and what not in my confirmation process was my department, our department was the worst for responding to congressional inquiries and letters and things like that. Hired the best congressional type liaison that i know, they are in place now. We are leaning forward and i promise you that our response will be much better than it has been in the past. That is not to say that my predecessor was anything other than a great professional. But we do have a new attitude towards not only the congress, but the press. And were trying our best to respond. And frankly, just anecdotally, ive talked to a few senators or congressman about youve gotten much better. Much better is nice to hear, but its not enough for me, so on behalf of the entire committee, thats encouraging and we appreciate you doing the very best that you can to get back in a timely manner. Senator leahy . Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman, secretary kelly. I wont start off in discussions about building the wall, asking if the check is in the mail from mexico. But you can keep watching the mail. I dont think its being sent by express mail. Now, on the campaign trail, President Trump promised support is a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the United States. Hes taken office. Hes twice tried to block individuals from six muslim majority countries from entering our country. I mention that not as a political thing, but a practical effect of it, it actually has an effect on vermonts economy. We border canada. One vermonter recently wrote to me about the Toronto School districts ban on student trips to the United States because of whats been said about muslims. And this vermonter writes, vermont relies heavily on Canadian Student destination trips as a driver of the more than 3 billion the Tourism Sector generate within the state. This is a state of only 625,000 people, so the 3 billion is a big factor. Others have contacted me about the cancellations theyve received from canada. The president claims his blanket travel ban is necessary for National Security, because individuals from certain countries pose too great a risk of terrorism. Ive never felt terrorized when ive gone to canada. Even my limited french in the province of quebec, my wifes relatives treat me with some respect. But is citizenship alone without any additional evidence a reliable indicator of the terrorist threat . Citizenship alone, no, sir. Good. I asked thendirector comey this same question, and he gave basically the same answer. Your department from the office of intelligence and analysis concluded that citizenship is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of potential terrorist activity any more than it was in probably one of the biggest terrorist acts in the United States, the Oklahoma City bombing. Now, i also mentioned earlier about our border crossing. Hardly a week goes by, sometimes not a day goes by, without a vermonter or a vermont business letting me know about long delays at vermonts high gate port of entry, and the wait times are impacting not just tourism, but business very substantially. And i know that since 2009 cbp in vermont has lost 25 of its staff at ports of entry. I know many people work there. They are fine men and women. But it makes it harder to do their job. And then if they have long lines on top of that, with travelers who are so used to going back and forth between vermont and canada or upstate new york and canada, that they can get pretty angry. That doesnt help with the whole thing. So ive been asking since the beginning of april to brief my staff about how they are going to improve the situation at high gate. I havent been able to get a response, but finally this week probably because they knew i might ask this question when you were here, they scheduled a briefing in june. I want to know, will you look at this problem in our port of entry . And will you see if theres some way to address it so we dont have these delays, which actually almost seem insulting to a Friendly Neighbor . Absolutely, sir. And let me say, i apologize for that and ill have someone over here this afternoon to brief your staff on this topic, and i know ben cassidy right now is texting someone over at cbp to do just that, so youll have someone over this afternoon. You know the amount of respect i have for colonel cassidy, so ill look forward to that. I think we need more help, we need more officers on the northern border. We always address the southern border, and i understand the reason for that. Im not disparaging that, but the northern border, for example, canadians use a camera system a process, the nexus lane, as opposed to a staff booth. We cant even consider Something Like this in a u. S. Inbound nexus lane when were shorthanded anyway having it manned. Yes, sir, were looking at theres a whole series of things were looking at, technologywise, facial recognition technology, that kind of thing. Were looking in canada to approve vehicles, really hitting it very, very hard. Ive just been to canada since ive been in the job, i was on the border. The good news is, our border with canada is, to use their term, the thinnest in the world. Meaning it is about as open as it can be. Now, its not totally open, obviously, but the ports of entry trying very, very hard to improve, as i think the senate would agree, as over the years as commerce has increased with canada, probably not far enough out in front of these kind of measures to speed up the passage. One of the things certainly the president told me when i took this job, the one point, you know, number of discussion points about the borders and what i should do and what i should perhaps not do, but one of the things he said, we have to not impede the normal legal human and things traffic, vehicular traffic through the border. If anything, we should speed it up. So ive got that, if we when we get a commissioner approved, that will be his number one task for me, to look at the ports of entry and do the best he can, the best we can, to improve the efficiency, the movement, working with both canada and mexico and i should say, my times up, but what i should say is my relationship, my counterparts in canada and in mexico just couldnt be better and are Getting Better every day. So regardless of what you might hear back and forth at a higher level than me, we are working shoulder to shoulder with our canadian brothers and sisters and mexicans, as well, not only on the movement of commerce, immigration, but also just other aspects of Border Security. It is an amazing amount of collaboration. You know, from your own career, a number of countries that have to fear militarily and all countries on their borders, were fortunate to have countries on both our borders, where we have open commerce, families, everything else. I dont want to change that, and ill submit the rest of my questions for the record, but i also want to talk to you at some point about socalled sanctuary cities. I dont want to cut Law Enforcement in these cities to make a political point, because in the long run were all going to suffer. Neither do i, senator. Thank you, thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator. Chairman cochran . Mr. Chairman, thank you. I join you in welcoming and expressing our appreciation to the witness for his help in figuring out appropriate funding levels for the activities under the jurisdiction of the u. S. Army engineer research and Development Center in vicksburg, mississippi. Weve supported Research Requirements for the department over the years at that site, and most notably there have been successes in new developments of technologies and Critical Infrastructure protection for our cards, for all federal laboratories and Research Centers that contribute to our knowledge of how to do a better job of assuring our safety and security. I want to ask you the response you have about the suggestion that the facility at vicksburg, which covers the entire nation in terms of producing solutions that face us in our ev everchanging threats to our National Security. Will these resources continue to be actively utilized . Well, sir, in our quest to stay in front of the threats, whether its, you know, governmentrun lab financed or the civilian, you know, industry, fence industry, technology industry, techno industry, were in a neverending quest to buy the right kind of equipment or get the right kind of capability to protect the nation, so not familiar with the lab, but well certainly get smart on that, and i can get back to you with an answer in more detail. But again, we are every good idea, in my mind, every idea is a good idea until we prove it to not be useful. It is a constant quest. I have an snt, science and Technology Section that is just world class and they are in contact with every conceivable lab industry, and when we say we need something, as an example were looking for kind of the technology after next in terms of aviation safety, and they are already beating the bushes worldwide to look for the kind of technology. So were very open to good ideas from any source. We appreciate very much your leadership in the research effort, and we commend you and those who work with you for helping make sure we have what we need in order to make our nation safe and secure. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator langford . Thank you. Secretary kelly, good to see you again. Sure. Glad that youre here. I would ask from our committee and from my family that you continue to express the condolences to agent morales, his family. That is heartbreaking for all of us to be able to see that kind of news and is difficult for your entire team. It has reminded me yet again, though, this week as ive gone through just the hearings this week how many times your department has been a lead player in a lot of the conversations and just conversations that ive had this week on the hill. Whether that be ms13 gangs and the movement of those gangs from central america, across all of the United States and what is happening, fentanyl coming into the United States and your customs and Border Control folks trying to interdict that in the mail as it comes from china. Cyber issues as dhs is engaging in protection for all our Government Systems, or whether that be immigration. You have people in the front lines on just about every major issue were facing as a nation right now, so i thank you for the work that youre doing and for the encouragement that you can put on the men and women that are doing that. Let me ask you a whole series of questions. Im going to run through as many as i can that we have time for. I mention the cyber issues and protection. Dhs has a responsibility for u. S. Government systems and computers. Tell me what the conversation is right now in the planning for looking at supply chain, software, hardware, and the planning for keeping all of our Government Systems safe. Senator, thanks for the condolence comment. It means a lot to the workforce, and youre right, they are heros. Relative to cyber, sir, you know, the threats constant, as you know. I dont need to go into all of that. We need to up our game. You know, the the Ransomware Attack the world suffered a little over a week ago, what was impressive to me, you say we play across a spectrum of threats, what was really impressive to me in all the highlevel meetings i was at at the white house on this topic, as we watched that threat go across the world, into asia, millions of infected systems, how almost every part of every conversation ended with dhs is in the lead, dhs has got this, nsa, fbi, theres a lot of tremendous defensive organizations within our government, but on that particular point, the fact that millions, i believe, of systems were infected around the world and it barely get into the United States, a handful of individual computers, and that was a direct result, not just dhs, but to a large degree dhs and how that was detected initially, how we, working with our partners outside the u. S. Government, as well as inside, pretty impressive. As far as the u. S. Government goes, we have to up our game. We do. You know, theres an e. O. Out from the president Holding Everyone accountable. I would say this, since ive been in this administration, i have not heard more discussion on anything else than cyber, so people have got it, senator. We want to be able to work with you on that. The concern is, that of the many things that youre doing, and its quite a bit, to be able to protect the nation, that it is easy for that to get distracted because its complex and expensive, quite frankly, but for someone who has the point on all of our systems across all of government, its exceptionally important to us to be able to stay on that, on our supply chain and how were managing software and hardware on that. Give me the status of the funding thats already been given to your agency on the border wall. There is a request pending for a larger segment, but this past session there was a request made for repairs on existing wall, and thats 650 miles of walls, new gates, and some other things that need to be done. Whats the status of that use of funds . Well, on the repair of the fence, 650 miles, generally speaking, its all fencing. And it does work. And its exactly where it needs to be. Thats why it works. Its effective. We want to repair that. Ive been down along that part of the border a couple times now, and the officers, again, rely on that fencing, and there are places where we need to fix it. Some places have been washed away, other places its been cut and repaired so many times that its kind of failing. So well spend the initial money that we received now three weeks ago in doing that. As far as the request thats in this budget to start looking at putting in a limited number of miles, i think you were here for my comments about were looking weve got a competition out there to decide what exactly are we looking for, wall, fence, everything in between. And thats fine. The issue of the future construction things, obviously, depending on good maintenance and what were doing right now. 650 miles and continue to expand out from there. I think that was congress initial statement of while were working on the details for the future, lets at least repair what we have and make sure it is in good working order. Where are we in the conversations on hiring process . This has been one of the great challenges for customs and Border Patrol in particular that were well over 400 days for hiring in the process. Whats the conversation right now . Weve reduced the number. Astounding to me it would take 400 astounding to us. Unbelievable. I think weve got that down by twothirds now, or we expect to have it down by twothirds. Were looking at some of the issues. We are not going to lower the quality of the officer that we or the individual that we take in, whether its i. C. E. , Border Patrol, secret service, doesnt matter, and we will not skimp on their training. That, consequently, we will grow the force as fast as we can grow it, but not skimp on quality and training. But we have the hiring, and id have to get back to you specifically, but i know its down significantly that have served 400 days. We just passed that, a Different Committee with on the Homeland Security issue, trying to give permission for dhs to be able to hire individuals into those roles that already have background checks, complaints coming out of the u. S. Military or Law Enforcement that are in goodstanding to have an expedited process. You and i have spoken before about the real i. D. , which is clearly something you inherited from decades back to be able to watch and monitor. There are several states, including mine, waiting on information that was due to us before january the 6th. We have a temporary extension that expires after that to try to see when that notification will come out. Do you have any idea when notifications will come out for those affected states . And theres only a small number of states i happen to be one. Yes, sir, i know. That are lagging behind. Were in contact in some cases i am personally in contact with the mayors, particularly those states that are, frankly, likely not going to be able to pull it off. In my in a couple cases now ive offered to the governors, rather, to send out members of my team to help them evaluate where they are and where they need to go, so weve done that. Where a state can get to the point where they can accomplish the real i. D. Requirement, extensions would come. Our state is one of those states there was a pending piece of legislation to be done. That piece of legislation was complete in february, but we still have not received our extension yet, so as far as we can tell, what we needed to be done has been done for several months, but were still waiting on an answer and that time is coming very, very close. Im on it. That would be terrific. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator langford. Mr. Manchin . Thank you, chairman. Secretarygeneral, let me just say on behalf of myself and many of my colleagues, were so proud that you have agreed to serve in this position. Were very proud and every one of your coworkers that work with you, not for you, but with you, and i understand that a good leader has to be with, not for. I appreciate all that and your hard work. I want to go just a couple questions on the guts of the organization. Your organization, cbp, is the second largest Revenue Collection Agency next to the Internal Revenue service. A lot of people dont understand that. But it troubles me, because our retrospective duty collections system, were the only country that does retrospectively, and what that means, we do not require importers to pay a calculated dumping duty at the time that the merchandise is imported into the United States. Instead, after importation, the importer can request a review to determine the exact amount of duties to collect based on a level of dumping that occurred during a previous review period. In fact, were the only major user of antidumping countervailing trade remedies that processes duty payments in this manner. Most countries collect duties at the time of import. Unfortunately, once the International Trade commission and the department of commerce assesses the final duty and inform the importer, they will now have to pay back these duties. Many are those import simply disappear without paying. So the lack of collection because of our inadequate system, we dont know how much money were losing. And i dont know if thats been brought to your attention at this level, but i would sure hope that you will look into this, sir, because we think theres an awful lot of revenue left on the table. A lot of revenue. Senator, i appreciate you bringing that up. Ill look into it right away. We found out theres currently 2. 6 billion in uncollected antidumping duties. 2. 6 billion. You know, we all kind of look at that funds and we all use it from time to time, which i know doesnt make your agencies real happy, but we like to make sure you have enough to do your job, too. Thats i just wanted to bring that to your attention, sir, its so serious. Wed be happy to tell you what we found for your people here and work with you very closely. Absolutely, senator. Border security, i know everybodys talking about the wall. Id like to know your assessment and your evaluation because of your former position. If mexico was able to build a southern wall on their southern border, their southern border, the threat of all the gangs that come through, all the dumping that we get, all the drug trade and all the other trade, if we were able to stop and mexico was able to build their wall and have tighter Border Controls on the southern border, would that be effective . How helpful would that be . Senator, it would be effective, and i have to really give a shoutout to mexico. And i cant emphasize enough the relationship that my department has generally and i have personally with the military and Upper Echelon ministers within the government of mexico to include some time with the president of mexico. I cant give enough credit to the men and women that we work with and how hard they work, so on the southern border when i was at Southern Command working with their military under the radar quietly for a lot of different reasons, we helped them took a looksee at their southern border, which, of course, is very narrow. Couple miles across. That would be easy for them and fulfill promises made here. Theyve established what they call the southern border strategy, and last year they stopped 160,000 migrants and turned them back humanely, processed them and turned them back. They have much different immigration laws than we do. They might be more receptive to building a wall then. I think now i think now they are looking even harder at their southern border. The other thing weve done, senator, is working with the governments, particularly the Northern Tier countries, guatemala, el salvador, honduras, with whom i have a great relationship, encouraging people not to come. And what mexico is doing. Illegal crossings right now are down 70 than what they were 120 days ago. Well, mexico is the key to this thing right now. If they really do their job and want to do it well, they have a smaller border and can do it better. Drugs are a different story. The amount of drugs the amount of drug money that is generated because of our demand in the United States is virtually unlimited. Unlimited to the degree that theres so much money available to either pay off officials in every country, to include our own, to pay off officials, simply have them murdered or their daughters murdered or their kids murdered. Its amazing. So there is a corruption problem throughout. People are an intimidation problem. Again, its directly due to our drug consumption in this country. We need to get our arms around that. If we shut that southern border down in mexico, that between the United States and the Mexican Government, we could have a better chance of controlling the drugs that come out of mexico by itself. But demand, sir, is hugely important. Thats a shame. I think where senator langford was going, and what im going to talk to you about, we had an open session with the intel committee, so everything im talking about is open source, and i asked a question during our worldwide threats evaluation. We had fbi, nsa, dni, and cna, all of our major your major coworkers, colleagues, and we asked a question about caspursky labs. Caspursky labs, and its an open source. Do you know if you have caspursky Labs Software in your system . I believe we do. I know. And do you know if i would like to get a report on this from you all. Will do. General, we have great concerns about, as you know, this has been noted, and also if you would even go one step further with caspursky, could you find out if any of your contractors that eyou rely on i using caspursky software . Absolutely. With that being said, i have one other one. The jitc, joint Interagency Training education center, you know what we do there, youve been there in your former command. Its a tremendous chance for us to be able to train. Tragic events at manchester, National Guard training is something we rely on. As a former governor, thats our first line of defense, as you know, and we would hope you all would look at Homeland Security for that type of facility, training, its already there, its Cost Effective. Be very inexpensive, its very close to the capital, as you know, Nations Capital here. So we want you to know that were able, ready, and willing to help in any way possible. Well take a look at it, senator. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator manchin. Senator kennedy . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us. Thanks for your service, both before, currently and before you became secretary. I wanted to talk to you for a second about sanctuary cities, if i could. Every country that im aware of has immigration laws and respects its border. We spend billions of dollars a year of taxpayer money trying to respect our borders. We are a nation of immigrants, but were also a nation of laws. But if you get across our border illegally and make it to certain cities in america, you can relax a little bit because the mayors dont want to enforce federal law. And i know many of them have good lawyers and they can explain why they are not doing why what they are doing is not a violation of the law in their opinion, but its an attitude as much as anything else. We have that issue in louisiana with new orleans, as you know. And our mayor has said publicly several times, hes a friend of mine im quoting now, i refuse to be a part of trumps deportation force, closed quote. And this is america. You can believe what you want, but you cant choose whats federal laws you want to comply with. What are we doing about the sanctuary city issue . Well, sir, pretty contentious to say the least. I would start off by saying in the 120 days or so ive been in the job, ive met every time i travel, boston now, new york, chicago, san diego, every time i travel, i will always meet with the mayor of the big city and the Senior Police officials. That includes when i go to smaller cities, as well. Ive also interacted with organizations in washington, National Sheriffs association. Hundreds of sheriffs come in. Big City Police Chiefs association. They all, to a man and a woman, want to cooperate with the federal government in terms of removing controls from their municipalities. The best way to do this is for us to have access to their jails and prisons, so when an individual who is an illegal immigrant is ready to be released, we simply take them off their hands. Its inconceivable to me why any public official would not want to do this. We for free take them off their hands and send them away. Yet the sanctuary cities are not doing that with us. And the Police Officials to a man and to a woman are, you know, they dont want is new orleans cooperating with you . Yes. In a way that they have managed to work out a relationship with Homeland Security, so its still going on. Understand what that means . Well, theyll call us and give us a notification when someones about to be released, and well send a team there. Sometimes there is a limit to how long they can hold people, but yes, were working with them. Whats not happening in places like that is when its not happening, when we dont have access to jails and things like that, then we have to go into the communities to focus our attention on illegal aliens, which is dangerous for my officers and just as dangerous for the local community. The best way to do this is in the jails and sanctuary cities tend not to allow us to set up shop, if you will, in the jail. We pay for it. Or if they dont want to let us into the jail permanently, we will train at our expense their officers so that when someone comes in, they can do the paperwork and call us and well come pick them up. I dont understand why these socalled sanctuary cities want to do it. In many cases, senator, the mayors are playing to their, you know, citizenry about it, but actually they are not doing anything. As a matter of fact, more often than not ill talk to mayors and say, look, this is what i want to continue doing with you, are you good with that, and if its acceptable, sure, thats a good relationship. But then theyll, you know, still talk about the sanctuary cities thing. Frankly, i dont really know what it means. I dont think anyone out there knows what it means, but in my case i do not want to cut the tremendous relationship my department has with Law Enforcement, so well do it quietly, well do it publicly, any way they want, but its insane to me why any public official would not want to cooperate with us to take dangerous criminals off the streets and out of their municipalities. I want to ask you about, mr. Secretary, the jones act, which i know youre familiar with. Its pretty simple. Its a statute passed by congress. It says that if youre a ship or owner of a ship and you want to move goods from point a to point b in america, that ships got to be built in the United States, its got to be u. S. Flagged, its got to be u. S. Crewed. And the way i read the statute and the case law is, theres no discretion. I mean, thats the test. And the ship either passes the test or it doesnt. Id like to get your thoughts about the jones act. The probably the first thing i was briefed on was the jones act when i took this job, so call that, you know, three months ago. And the way it was briefed to me in short was the issue of supporting the oil and gas industry and whether it was u. S. Flagged, not u. S. Flagged. The way it was briefed to me, senator, by lawyers, its not clear were working on this. Its not clear exactly what the law says. I think it was a 1920 law. The way i was briefed was we can either use foreign flag or any flag or just American Flag or we really option three, and it wasnt a kick this thing down the road option, its what we really want to do is study this thing and come up with a comprehensive solution, and my only question, as it always is, whats good for america . I dont care about the industry and all that, whats good for america. We dont know whats good for america, let us study this. So this came up in my hearing on the house side yesterday. I went back. It was briefed to me, it was clearer than what apparently it is, so i went back to my folks yesterday afternoon and, you know, said get me some definitive understanding of this. Go back to the drawing boards. If we are in violation of the law, obviously, well change that, but in the meantime we do want to study this and come up with the right answer for america. In short, im on it, senator, and i appreciate you raising it. And i do, mr. Secretary, appreciate your careful approach. Just dont let your folks study it forever. No, i got it. Yes, sir. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator kennedy. Senator shaheen . Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you, secretary kelly for your service and let me begin by expressing my condolences to everyone at the department. Particularly at cbp for the agent who was killed. Its a reminder that protecting our borders, like our other Law Enforcement positions in this country, is a dangerous job. Thank you, maam. You know, i know like the rest of america and the world, really, we have watched with horror at the events that happened in manchester, england, earlier this week, and the as someone said yesterday in a hearing, it raises terrorism to a new level when they deliberately target young people. Given those events, given what we know, terrorists groups have said about taking the fight from the caliphate in the middle east out to the rest of the world, im very concerned about what i see in this budget that would dramatically cut preparedness grants for local states and local communities. I was governor on 9 11. I can tell you that the support that we got from the federal government to help us be better prepared to fight terrorist attacks was absolutely significant and we could not have replaced that in any other way. I was also very disappointed to see what appears to be a zeroing out of the countering violent extremism of your budget. I know that was just Getting Started and i had heard some reports that it was becoming more effective as it tried to address whats happening in terms of radicalization of americans, some young americans. So i just want to express my concerns about both of those items in the budget, because i do think thats a significant challenge for us as we try and address potential terrorist attacks and other terrorist threats in the United States. I do want to ask you about the heroin and Opioid Epidemic that were experiencing. In New Hampshire we have the second highest overdose rate, death rate, in the country. We are ground zero when it comes to this epidemic, and while i know there are a lot of aspects of it and were working very hard on treatment, recovery, prevention, interdiction, this is an area where cbp has been very important, and i wonder if you could talk a little bit about what cbp and the coast guard are doing to help us address the epidemic that were experiencing throughout the country. I would start by saying that and im putting some Energy Behind this, even though its not my job, about the issue of demand reduction. So let me start with that. If we we have a very, very casual approach to drugs in the United States. Legal and illegal. We are the most overly medicated society on the planet. Absolutely. When i was a kid and had my wisdom teeth out, they suggested i buy a, you know, take aspirin if it hurts. Now youll go home with oxycontin. A lot of reasons for that, but we are so overly medicated and thats part of the opiate problem today, but weve never had a drug demand reduction comprehensive program where the president leads it and congress is behind it and National Football league is behind it and sports figures and hollywood like we have, say, tobacco reduction, like we have for drunken driving and that kind of thing. So its really all about demand reduction. First issue. Second, of course, those that do get addicted, we need to help them in terms of, you know, rehabilitation, whatever. Which the rehabilitation industry will tell you the best way to get totally clean from drugs is never start. So thats one aspect of it. The specific question, if we are trying to keep drugs out of our country on the southwest border, weve already lost. I mentioned before i dont think you were here that coast guard cutter that just completed its run down on the western pacific took off 18 tons of cocaine. Thats the place to get it. We have my view of border southwest border begins in terms of security begins 1,500 miles south. Begins, first of all, with the relationships we have with all of those countries, with the exception of maybe venezuela, less so not a bad relationship with nicaragua, but the partnerships down there to stop illegal migration, as an example, a movement of people for whatever purposes into our country, the amazing efforts that countries like colombia put behind reducing the production of cocaine in their case, and perus right along with them. Right up the isthmus, the relationship with countries that are working shoulder to shoulder, and i have i. C. E. People, hsi, Homeland Security people, cbp people, in almost every capital in the world. Were working well south of the texasmexican border. 90 of the heroin we consume comes from mexico. Its grown there, primarily in mexico. The Mexican Government is after it, but they are overwhelmed by the problem. Were working with them on it. We can identify the fields, tell them where to go, and they are very, very cooperative. My point is, the real issue is to get at this problem where its produced, the number one issue is the demand, is to get where its produced. Again, on the high seas, the coast guard, well pick up no less than a ton at a time. The colombians got 450 tons last year before it ever left colombia. Once it gets to the southwest border, where at one of our ports of entry, were lucky ten kilos. So a ton at a time, by the time it gets to the southwest border, we might get it, you know, kind of ten kilos at a time, but they are doing tremendous things. Were looking at ways to search as an example more vehicles coming through the border. Thats a balance, though, because the more vehicles you search, the longer the lines. But its a very comprehensive problem. As far as dhs is concerned, were hitting it pretty hard with relationships, with interdiction, well south of the border, beefing up security at the ports of entry, which is where most of these hard drugs come through. Then, of course, internal enforcement by our Law Enforcement, state and local Law Enforcement. Its all a big comprehensive thing, and no one person, no one solution to it, but ill go back to the demand. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator. Senator, our former fearless leader, chair of the subcommittee, youre recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And mr. Secretary, thanks for being here and for all the work youre doing. In the budget, theres 1. 6 billion for 32 miles of wall construction along the southern border. Im wondering why 32 miles. How did its a start. As we go through the process right now, senator, of deciding what that physical barrier will look like, wall, fencing, whatever, and there is a competition. So we dont really know how much a mile of the barrier will cost. I mean, the ball fencing, as i understand it, disadvantages to that. Theres advantages in certain places down along the border to put a wall in, but for the money that we its a start. Not being funny. And as we talked to our professionals down there on the border, and ask the cbp folks, you know, if i could give you wall, how much would you need and where would you want it, the answers we get back, 12 miles here, 13 miles there. Places theyll tell you we dont really need a wall here, theres not Much Movement in terms of people. So but its as much as we could afford coming out of the gates. I think youve described the wall concept very well where you talk about physical barrier, technology, and people. All of that is really necessary to have, you know, security, which is what were after in terms of a wall. Talk a little bit, if you would, about use of Unmanned Aerial Systems on both the southern and the northern border, and i know youve agreed to come up to grand forks where we have a center of excellence established there and one of the test sites for uas, and, in fact, cbp is covering 900 miles of the northern border, all the way from the western lake superior, all the way through most of montana. So just talk about your plans in terms of utilizing uas. I think the advantages, of course, of those type of aircraft is they dont, you know, they are relatively inexpensive, they fly for a long time. If you put the right sense of suite on them, you can see during the day, at night, and they dont get tired, essentially, and they are quiet lookers. One of the problems we have if we use things like helicopters, helicopters are great for a lot of things, but from a surveillance point of view they make a lot of noise and they can be seen. I would like to think looking hard at expanding the use of uavs, but again, thats some time off. But expanding the use of uavs, i think they are particularly on parts of the border, southern border, northern border, particularly where theres no one there, theres very little movement. Where, you know, its an Economy Force mission, right, you put your people and your assets where most of the movement is, but you dont ignore parts of the border in this case, and its a great place to use uavs and other types of sensors. As you have success in Border Security, you create pressure in other areas, and thats where the u. S. Can help you so much to cover areas where you dont have as much infrastructure or people, or its remote or difficult, and its a day and night solution with infrared. And it also leverages your personnel resource incredibly. We have a large conference in the fall, which might be a great time for you to come up, because we bring in to grand forks all things uas. I mean, it cuts across military, civilian, Border Security, all applications. We have people from all over the country and other countries there, but its a fall conference, would be a great time for you to come. The we had a hearing yesterday in Homeland Security on ms13, and one of the things that came up from some of the Law Enforcement personnel that we had there testifying is theyd like to have some way to know when unaccompanied alien children are coming in. There needs to be some way for Law Enforcement to know where those individuals are going in the country, because, you know, the average age in ms13 is about 18 years old, and they are recruiting them at 14 and maybe even younger in some cases, so if they come into the community and they dont have some kind of support network for those individuals, they are very vulnerable to be coerced or to join the gang or be coerced into joining the gang. So is there something you are doing, can do to coordinate with Law Enforcement on this issue to try to get at this gang issue, Gang Violence problem . First ive heard of this issue, so ill specifically take it on, but on the unaccompanied minors, i think the senator knows this, that when they come into our position, cbp as an example down on the border, if they are young, below if they are not adults, then we have to turn them over to department of health and human services, i think, within 72 hours. Usually its done faster than that. And by the way, this is a huge scam. I mean, they know most of them know exactly what they are doing. They come across, they identify themselves. The people that trafficked them up there, their families, are actually involved in Human Trafficking at this point. Theyll send them up, we turn them over to hhs, they usually have in their pocket the name, phone number, address of their mom or their uncle or someone whos already here, and then hhs will do some, you know, initial vetting of the family. But if it is a mom or relative or something, they will be, you know, at our expense turned over to them, whether its fairfax or north dakota or whatever. And most of them dont get involved in crime, but many of them do. Most dont, some do. And they are perfect for recruiting into the ms13type gangs, and thats not the only one, but thats the obvious one. So, if we dont alert Law Enforcement, we certainly can and we will. Its a great point. As you say, they are turned over to hhs and there is some checking they do, but what these were detectives, police chiefs, Police Commissioners that we talked to and they were saying hhs has notification, they talk to social services, some of those things, but Law Enforcement is not getting notified. Thats the piece they were asking for. Ill take that on, senator. I dont know. It is an hhs thing, but i can put my i understand you might have to coordinate with hhs, maybe you work with them, but they are saying given the growing numbers with these gangs, and this is a recruitment part of the recruitment process and they were looking for some help there. The good news is, if i could, in the last 120 days, the number of Illegal Immigrants or migrants that are coming across the border are down by 70 , but the real good number here is that the number of families coming in, unaccompanied minors, is down to tiny levels. So weve almost stemmed the tide, but we do, frankly, have an awful big problem. And that relates to immigration courts and that whole process, too, and tracking people versus just releasing them into society. They may have a name. That individual may not even be willing to take care of them. I know youre trying to get your arms around all of them. This is where local Law Enforcement thought they needed to be more effective in working with you, and the final question, quickly, is in the terrible, terrible terrorist attack in manchester, the local Law Enforcement there has indicated theres been some information leaked by u. S. Authorities. Can you comment on that at all . I cant. Okay. I understand in this open setting. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Thank you, senator hoevin. Senator baldwin . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, welcome, thank you for your service. I would like to ask some questions about how the budget prioritizes funding for securityrelated activities across the very diverse dhs mission set. Of course, your attention ones attention is naturally drawn to places where theres significant increases, versus places where theres significant decreases. The nearly 3 billion increase for dhs overall includes 1. 6 billion for a border wall. I would note something that congress and its omnibus considerations rejected just a few weeks ago, and certainly, hundreds of millions dollars more for i. C. E. , including 850 new officers and 66 expansion of the number of immigration detention beds. And i share your commitment to securing the border, but i question whether these significant increases are the most effective way to allocate limited resources to combat the threats that we face. For example, President Trumps budget reduces tsas funding by approximately 200 million, compared to the omnibus, including cutting something thats gotten a lot of attention, the 23 visible intermodal prevention and response teams, or viper teams. These teams, in my mind, are critical to the safety of our airports and our Transportation Systems. The president s budget also cuts critical support to our states local Law Enforcement, including cutting 118 million from the state Homeland Security grant program. I think my colleague raised that earlier, and 156 million from the urban Area Security initiative. And so given the continued threat, i have to wonder why is the president cutting funding that keeps our Community Safe from terrorist attack when theres an overall increase in the departmental budget . So my question to you, secretary kelly, with the nearly 3 billion increase that you are working with, why did dhs cut these particular programs, and what do you assess the impact to be on americas security . How much risk are we taking with these cuts, the ones that i singled out . On the taking a look since ive been the secretary and have been briefed on, you know, all of the Grant Programs, taken a long hard look at their effectiveness. There are many that clearly are effective. There are others its questionable. Anyways, were looking at all the Grant Programs across Homeland Security. In terms of some of the grants that you mentioned, in many cases from a terrorism point of view, it was clear on 9 11 that, i mean, we were shocked into an understanding that we didnt take we thought that terrorism was over there, and weve learned on 9 11, tragically, that it can come here very easily. And it was clear, as i understand it, of course, i wasnt here at the time, but the people that have been in Homeland Security long enough are way back then, have informed me that many of these grants were poured into state and local communities because to give them an opportunity to buy equipment that they didnt even think they needed before, or to send special units that they didnt ever think they needed before. Or to get specialized training that they never thought they needed before because of the terrorist threat. That was 14, 15 years ago. I would very proudly say that the police departments, state, local, in our country today, if its in their dna to think about this topic, unfortunately. And every time theres an orlando, or every time theres a San Bernardino or chattanooga, its obvious to them. The idea is that they are up and running now, and the sense is in terms of the department and certainly in the administration that those monies now are not needed as much. I mean, they are certainly nice to have and i would certainly take money if someone offered it to me, but where we were looking to save money, this was an area that the sense was these 15, 14 years on, these municipalities now are, i would argue, second to none in the world in dealing with whether its home grown terrorism, active shooter, for whatever reason, or terrorist coming in from outside. So thats thats one part of the answer, at least. There are things, frankly, ill go back to the grant thing. Ive told my people, look, i want you to look at every grant, and then come and brief me. Is it working . Then well keep it if we can afford it. If its not working or not working so well, tell me how to adjust it and make it better or were going to stop it, because we dont want to waste the money. Let me sort of follow on this topic. Sticking with the urban Area Security initiative, i believe that the program and its risk formula is due for an update, and regardless of the cut in funding, which i would like to see restored, but i understand and support the need to allocate resources in proportion to risk, but i represent wisconsin, we have the city of milwaukee, the biggest city in the state, and it has been excluded from eligibility to receive urban Area Security Initiative Funding since 2011. Despite the wellsupported need for federal terrorism prevention funding to close a gap that simply cant be closed or filled by the state Homeland Security grant program. And you listed some of the things that were vulnerable in communities across the country. I think of the tragic 2012 shooting at a sikh temple in oak creek, right outside of the city of milwaukee, in which six people were killed and four wounded. Last year, the fbi thwarted a terrorist plot in milwaukee. A man had planned a mass shooting of at least 30 people at a masonic temple in the city of milwaukee. The local Fusion Center helped prevent that attack. And yet it is not eligible for urban Area Security Initiative Funding and needs more assistance. And finally, like many communities across the country, milwaukees Jewish Community center, its jcc, received multiple bomb threats in recent months. Again, but wasnt eligible for the urban Area Security initiatives nonprofit program. So, secretary kelly, in light of repeated calls by terror organizations for their adherence to attack more vulnerable targets in large and small communities alike, i wonder if you agree that it makes sense to increase the departments flexibility and allow funding to follow the threat and regardless of location. As you point out, senator, youre exactly right, this terrorist threat, particularly the home grown, is not limited to new york city or las vegas or chicago. In fact, every community, small village, town in america, is vulnerable. Every city is vulnerable. Theres a formula, as i think the senator knows, that my Organization Works with state, local, and the formula is, you know, risk based and ought to establish the risk. And im not entirely familiar with the formula, but i can tell you its worked every year down to really, you know, to the most specific threats, and any city that doesnt receive money is simply because in that formula working, the threats not considered to be high enough. Now, i say that, im not so sure at this point with the exception of, you know, the most obvious targets, washington, d. C. , and, you know, say new york, im not so sure that theres just not enough money. Every city, every village in america deserves money, if you look at it from the point of view could terrorism happen there. Its everywhere. And thats, you know, thats the nature of this threat that were dealing with. So, there isnt enough money in the till because we need an unlimited amount of money so, you know, Homeland Security, fema and others work this very, very closely with state and local. They have the formula. They plug in the numbers. They do the threat assessments and come up with about i think 33 cities, municipalities that receive money. I think we added two cities to that this year. But in order to do that we had to take money away from other municipalities on that list to give the money once we have released that list, i mean, we kind of held the pay im sure for people that lost money. But this terrorist threat is so insidious and so decentralized, i worry about the home grown threat all the time. We can, i believe were doing very, very good. Department of defense and coalition overseas reducing this threat but the end results of reducing that threat is that the terrorists that are fighting in the caliphate, you know, syria and iraq, theyre going home. But not going home to live normal lives. In fact, theyre being encouraged to not be killed in the caliphate fight. Go back to where you came from and just create manchestertype fights. If you were in europe, i think theyll their approximation ill use their aapproximate 2,500 of the sit sevens now fighting in the caliphate. These are kids, mostly, men and women that were born and raised in france, germany. They have legal passports. They have left to go fight in the caliphate. Many cases their countries dont know they have left. And then they come back. So their countries dont know they were ever gone and now theyre hardened warriors that will do things like manchester. So, as horrible as manchester was, my expectation is were going to see a lot more of that kind of attack. We saw in indonesia attack yesterday. Suicide bombers. So, this good news was when they decided to hold terrain, that is in the caliphate in iraq and syria, they were holding it so now we know where exactly to go and kill them. Now theyre leaving. North africa. Its a growing problem. But back to your point, every municipalitys at risk an we just do the best we can to determine the ones that are kind of the most at risk. And we use that formula. Its fair. Everyone has a chance to for input. Theres not an unlimited amount of money. Thank you, senator baldwin. Senator mull cow ski. Thank you and, secretary, thank you for being here. Your commitment to service. I want to ask two about two issues today. First is h2b visas and then i want to talk about the arctic a little bit and the resources we have up there and then also the northern border. I understand youve been talking a lot about the southern border but id like to talk about the northern. The seafood industry in my state is one of the strongest parts of our economy. Over 78,000 jobs. 5. 8 billion estimated in revenue annually. Whether its our it is our crab, our pollack, bristol basal mono. We have the largest fisheries and the healthiest fisheries in the world but the problem we have is the adequacy of season allay boar. We just cant get the men and women out to these very, very, very remote communities to meet the demand of the workforce. We cannot get them in the state. We cannot get them in the United States. And so, we have traditionally relied on the opportunities for h2b visas. On may 5th, the president signed the appropriations omnibus that Gave Authority to you and consultation with the secretary of labor to approve additional h2b visa processing for the remainder of the fiscal year to help many of these businesses, these industries that have been unable to find sufficient employees for this upcoming season. Our problem in alaska is the timing here because the harvest is later in the year so other industries around the country basically gobble up that quota and we are left hanging. This shortterm fix is in my view urgently needed for the large employers that are seeking the necessary staff as we prepare for this early summer salmon harvest. Were just a few weeks out here. And so, our Seafood Processors are really operating in realtime facing workforce decisions that will have significant economic impact. For most of these communities, for most of these regions, if there is no one to process the seafood coming in, theres no place for boats to deliver. If theres no boats to deliver, theres economy to that community at all. There is no other source of economy. So this is very serious for us. As we look to Seasonal Worker shortfall to process our seafood within these remote communities. I think we recognize lastminute action is not ideal. After we resolve issues im committed to working with you to find a longer Term Solution so we dont need to revisit this problem year after year. But i need, i need immediate help to reopen u. S. Customs and immigration services. Their Premium Processing centers for hdbs so that we can get the seafood processing employers in the state. The question for you is whether or not you do plan to approve additional h2b visas for the year so the Economic Opportunity for us in alaska can go to work. Well, this is one of those things i really wish i didnt have any discretion. And for every senator, congressmen that has your view, i have another one that says, dont you dare. This is about american jobs. You know the argument, both sides. My staff, members of my staff, are coordinating with the department of labor on this. One of the things and i have my working class root background that keeps reminding me that some of these individuals, not necessarily alaska, but many, many of these individuals are victimized when they come up here in terms of what theyre paid and all the rest of it so were working with labor, department of labor, to come up with an answer to this. But we really do need a longTerm Solution so well work with the senate, with the congress and with industry this year and, again, ill have my staff when they return from labor and we get some protocols in place, well likely increase the numbers for this year, perhaps not by the entire number that im authorized but we really do need i really look forward to working with you, maam, senator, in the whole congress to get a longer Term Solution to this. Well, we need one. I have had the same discussion with secretary acosta. And recognize the imperative of this. And im with you. We want to make sure that every american who wants that job has it. And i would welcome anyone in this room to come up, ill sign you up. Sign up your kids as long as theyre 18 years old but the ability to to get u. S. Workers, again, out to these extraordinarily remote places has been very, very, very difficult. So i would just ask that you work with us and appreciate the timeliness of this issue that were dealing with right now because this salmon dont care when the permits are issued. They dont care whether or not we have got processers in place. So, i appreciate your attention to this. Will do. I had an opportunity yesterday to ask admiral richardson this same question and i recognize the efforts of the coast guard in partnership with navy to accelerate the design and the construction of polar icebreak earls as were dealing with a very aging fleet. The coast guards budget 19 million far icebreaker program. We all know that that doesnt build us an icebreaker but getting us movie. Navy has not requested any funding. So i would ask you as were developing this fy 18 budget, what funding is needed to keep the program on its accelerated path . I think its important that we look to to the savings that can be gained by block buying, but we need to have a program in place. We need to have a vision for how were going to respond as an arctic nation with the infrastructure that we need. I agree, senator. I mean, we clearly need those types of vessels if were going to compete in any way in the arctic. I would have to let me take it for the record or brief, whatever. Ill get back to you on how the coast guard dhs intends to lay out a comprehensive program to get to the i think its right now three six icebreakers. Three and three. You know that. Let me get back to you on that but im with you 100 in the fact that we need to have a program that gets us from where we are now which is pretty humble to at least fullup capability with six vessels. We appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, i had mentioned that theres been a lot of discussion about the southern border. Nobody really thinks about the exposure on the northern end but the reality is that were seeing Arctic Sea Ice decrease. Its allowing for greatest accessibility which is all good and interesting and also presents some security challenges for the United States as well as canada. We do not have Border Patrol. We dont have any security along that entire u. S. Coast thats called alaska. Some 33,000 miles of coastline that we have got up there. And its just its an open opportunity. So, i wont ask you to comment on this now but know that one of the thing that is we are looking at is whether partnerships with canadian Law Enforcement and security agencies can come together to help facilitate sharing of information as it relates to security threats, in the north american arctic. Whether or not we should consider establishing an arctic Security Office in partnership with canada. These are things that have come about as part of the Arctic Council discussions but i think its going to require a review and an area we just havent been focused on at all. Great point. Hadnt thought of it and i will tell you, and i think you know this, i mean, our partnership, information sharing, everything is near perfect with canada. But i had thought of that point about perhaps that even opening an office but were on that. We look forward to discussing it with you. Thank you, mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. Thank you, senator murkowski. Senator tester. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This hearing is going on for too long or just started. In your mind. I very much appreciate i love this. Yes, good. And very much appreciate it. You know, its real meantal gymnastics because of the size of this department to jump from issue to issue. Im going to go back and touch base on the one we talked about before this hearing very quickly and that were kind of in the same boat as oklahoma. I dont know if theyve passed a law yet but we have, to obtain compliant license. I anticipate the governor will sign that law very soon. And so, the question becomes is if well get an extension. If were moving fast enough as a state to get dhss support in that were actually heading to a compliant license and if youre willing to give an extension or at least give me some sort of idea where were going to be heading here. Well, senator, a couple of points. You know, the vast majority of the states have either accomplished the task of the 2000 whatever five law or really making great progress and will be there very soon. As i mentioned before, in those states that are not nearly as close to completion yet, your state is an example. Ive talked to the governor. A couple of other states i talked to, as well, in the same kind of place. Offered to send my folks yes. And we have done that to work with the state to say, okay, youre close or youll never get there. The point is that in those states, senator, that and i dont know where montana is right now. But in those states, it simply cant get there from here i would say that it would not make in my mind sense to give an extension. That said, were absolutely committed to working with the states. Shoulder to shoulder on this to make it happen. But i would offer, again, to every state thats not compliant as of yet to really Start Talking to their citizens. We have established a Public Affairs campaign on our own focused on people to get alter gnat means of identification. Okay. So back in 2005, we passed i happen to be in the state legislature back then and passed a law this said montanas not to comply with real i. D. With this bill that was passed this spring was the second line says it all. This bill directs Montana Department of justice to issue montana drivers license or i. D. Cards that comply with the real i. D. Act of 2005. It strikes that law that was passed in 2005 and directs doj in montana to meet the standard. Its pretty clear. So hopefully if you have any issues in this, let me know because this needs to be solved. Quite frankly. You know me, senator. I want to work it out. Okay. Good. Imminent domain. One of the issues that were brought up is that the rights of current landowners on the southern border, if a wall was to be built. Can you confirm that nothing in this recently passed dhs appropriations act interferes or facilitates the changes in landowner rights . I cant confirm that. Ill get back to you senator, if thats all right. Im hyper sensitive to this issue and private property and as we look at places to put the physical barrier, called a wall, and some places perhaps it would require an imminent domain action, but i i am very sensitive to that, as well. Yeah. I mean, and it is what youre looking at the recently passed act, look at this one, too, to make sure it also does not facilitate or interfere. Very important issue for me, too. My staff tells me that from the what is it . 2008 abs on the border were still in court on imminent domain issues so yeah. I mean, look. Thats one of the theres been a number of questions here today thats been asked by both sides of the aisle on the validity. I know its a term, the wall. But im seeing a concrete wall in my head when we talk about the wall. And i think that as we look at potential reductions in local and by the way if theres money to be saved there, chairman and i are in with you. Truthfully. But if this is an issue, this whole thing that we have been talking about all day is an issue and you know this better than i, you cant make a mistake. And so if you pull away from local and it does, in fact, create a problem, we havent done the right thing. Same thing with dsa. Same thing with r d and the fema stuff. And so, thats why i think theres a concern here on were going to spend a ton of money on keeping the southern border secure and are we really getting the biggest bang for the buck and if were not are we sacrificing these other programs which actually can be just as problematic as possible . You get my brief . I do. Okay. Lets talk about the laptop ban. Appreciate the heads up on it, by the way. By your people. Do you think it should extend beyond the ten airports that it already is in . Possibly. If i could elaborate just a bit. Yes. What i have learned in the last 120 days that i was not nearly as aware about prior to that in the military is this, you know, relentless attempt on the part of terrorists to blow up airplanes in flight. Ideally big airplanes, a lot of people. Ideally, a u. S. Carrier, ideally on the way to the United States. We are watching cant get into it in this group, in this hearing room. Gotcha. A number of very, very sophisticated advanced threats right now. I obviously would it was my decision to make. I obviously wouldnt have put ten airports on the list right. In march. But as we look at the threat and how its morphed yeah. We are looking at perhaps other ways to reinforce the security procedures at every airport on the world. Okay. Thats so i its possible to expand. Okay. And what are we doing to enhance existing Screening Technology to develop new systems . Are we making investments in those . We are. Types of technologies. Right. Current technology that you typically see at the airports for baggage as well as for people are just about at their limit. Were looking at advancing this. We are working . We are. How do you square that with the 21 cut in r d . Well, as we look to the technology after next, were working with our international partners. Theyre in with us. Working with the airlines themselves, both national and international airlines. We want to share the cost of the r d. Its in everyones interest to do it but ultimately we have to spend what we need to spend to find the technology to protect air travelers. Okay. So, you have had the conversations with our allies are similar mind and Airline Companies that theyre willing to pitch in . Theyre willing to do anything not to have me do some of the things that were contemplating. Money is one thing theyre willing thats my assumption, yeah. Were not going to heres the deal as we go through the process and i appreciate you, mr. Secretary, i do but going through the process, we r d if its not backfilled somewhere. If it is, god bless you for looking at it. I think its good but we need to know that. Okay . Yes, sir. Speaking of tsa, when can we anticipate a nomination to lead the tsa . Were really close. Really close . Really close. Like the end of the week . Were i would just say, look. I have a ton of stuff, questions and they havent been asked here before, but i just want to tell you the overall heartburn i have with this budget is, is it a budget getting the most bang for the buck, especially as it applies to the wall . Right. I dont really care, to be honest with you, if its a wall or if its a drone or if its manpower. I just want to get the biggest bang for the buck to keep this country safe and i think youre on the same page there. I am. But it may require you telling somebody that this is a better direction to go. Wouldnt hesitate. Good. Thank you. I know you wouldnt. Thank you. Thank you, senator tester. In regard to r d, the one of the huge problems we have is the toxicity of fentanyl. Do we have the ability, are we working on acquiring or developing something that will detect it and make it such that our you know, our Border Patrol officers, the dogs out working these things we are. We are, senator. But, you know, one of the ways as you well know, fentanyl is so powerful. Oh, by the way, theres a new thing thats more powerful by a factor, socalled elephant tranquilizer thats worse or more effective or more but, were working with china. They are our dea and others are working to china to try to stop it but the point is its harder than anything else because a tiny, tiny amount goes so far sort to speak so some of this stuff coming in by the mail. I visited one of cvp facilities recently in seattle, i think, where all the International Mail goes through. And it is an amazing amount of thing that is they find to include fentanyl. Right. This concludes our hearing. Thank you very much for being here. We appreciate your testimony. Also, in an effort to really get up to speed i visited a number of Homeland Security facilities and you should be complimented in the sense that it seems to me like morale is up greatly. And the agents of all of the different agents and agencies that you represent appreciate the fact that theyre able to do their job and i think have a great deal of confidence in you so we thank you for that. Theyre really good people. Good people. Exactly. The hearing will remain open for two weeks from today. Senators may submit quinn questions for the record. We ask that the department respond to them within a reasonable amount of time. I want to thank my staff and senator testers staff for their hard work in making the hearing possible. With that, were adjourned. This Holiday Weekend on book tv on cspan2, saturday at 8 30 p. M. Eastern, former u. S. Secretary of state rice looks at democracy around the world in her book democracy stories from the long road to freedom. Americans in particular were blessed with Founding Fathers who understood an institutional design that would protect our liberties, our right to say what we think, to worship as we please, to be free from the knock of the secret police at night, to have the dignity that comes with having those who are going to govern you have to ask for your consent. But if we were blessed with that and we believe that we were endowed by our creator with those rights, it cant be true for us and not for them. Sunday, at 2 20 p. M. , Columbia University Professor John mcborder on the controversies and perceptions of sounding black in the book talking back, talking black. I think we need to get comfortable saying black people have a slightly different sound often spending more time with one another and white people sound like one another because they spend time together and true of all human groups. Thats not racist. Its just true and harmless. And monday, at 4 30 p. M. Eastern, former president george w. Bush on his book portraits of courage a commander in chiefs tribute to americas warriors. The first guy i was painting was major chris turner. I said, why are you here . He said i cant get out of my mind seeing a buddy of mine killed. And i paint from pictures. And photos and as im painting turner, im thinking what that must be like in his mind. For more on this weekends schedule, go to book tv. Org. On sunday, june 4th, author and journalist matt tiabi will be our guest. Growing up looking at thousands and thousands of faces until one day you see that one face that you feel was put on earth just for you and thats instantly you fall in love in that moment, you know, for me, trump was like that except it was the opposite. When i first saw him on the campaign trail, i thought, you know, this is a person whos unique, horrible and amazing, terrible characteristics were put on earth, you know, specifically for me to appreciate or unappreciate or whatever the verb is. Because i had really been spending a lot of the last ten to 12 years without knowing it preparing for donald trump to happen. Mr. Taibbi is a contributor to Rolling Stone magazine and several books. Adequate story of bankers, politicians and the most audacious power grab in americas history and insane clown president dispatches from the 2016 circus. During our live threehour conversation, well take your calls, tweets and facebook questions on mr. Taibbis literary career. Watch in depth live from noon