Railamerica from july 13, 1987, in a 60 minute portion of a daylong hearing, colonel north is questioned by orrin hatch and paul trible. He defends armed rebel groups opposing the nicaraguan government. Funding that have been presented by congress. Been prohibited by congress. The chair recognizes the gentleman from virginia, senator trible. Sen. Trible thank you. Let me thank you for your testimony over than last week. There are many of us on this panel that support Ronald Reagan and believe in the contra cause. I should note there has been absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of our president. And i, like you, believe the essence of the American Experience is the pursuit of freedom at home and around the world. That is why we must oppose the marxist tyranny in nicaragua. That is why we must help young nicaraguans fight for their freedom, as well. The last week has not been an easy one for any of us. It has been a time of probing questions and honest answers on your part. You have done well. You captured the imagination of the American People. You have done that i think because you tell the truth fully and candidly. Because you are a man who is obviously doing his duty as he saw it. Because you are acting with the knowledge and authority of your superiors. And you also demonstrated an amazing ability to get results in a city so often tied in knots. I know it has been a difficult time for your family. I believe these hearings are necessary. Anyone who values truth, the constitution, the rule of law, must be troubled by what we have heard over the last 10 weeks. But when Public Policy is taken private, and government attempts to operate outside established channels, there are no checks and balances, no accountable oversight. As a consequence, people, good policy, can get into trouble. That is what we have seen. President kennedy used to tell a story i believe captures the spirit of these hearings. In june of 1780, there was a total eclipse of the sun. At noon it was as dark as at midnight. In those days, people attributed this kind of happening to the day of judgment, the coming of the lord. Connecticut legislature was meeting in hartford. The members were thrown into chaos, there were motions to adjourn. Speaker of the house, colonel davenport, silenced those motions with his gavel and spoke these words gentlemen, i do not know if the world is coming to an end or not. If it is not, there is no reason to adjourn. But if it is, i want the lord to come and see me doing my duty. So therefore, i will entertain a motion that candles be brought into this chamber so we may enlighten this hall of democracy. Our duty is to light a candle so the American People can see and judge what has gone on. It is not an easy job or a happy one. But it is one that must be done. An obvious problem when Public Policy goes private is that the distinction between the public good and private ends are often blurred. Private citizens may be motivated by profit to pursue interests that are inconsistent with the goals of the United States. Colonel north, it is clear to me and the American People, that you are motivated by ideals, love of country. Not pursuit of profit. You have spoken eloquently and powerfully about that before us. But im not sure everything can be said of the people involved in your activities. What i would like to do, with your help, is asked questions about the financial aspects of the enterprise, directed by others. Last wednesday you testified how you knew they would be compensated in a just, fair, and reasonable compensation. Is that correct . Col. North i will take your word, senator that that is what i said, when i said it. That is what i felt when we had talked. The evidence establishes that they amassed over 8 million in the think accounts. Did you know those huge sums of money were stopped away . Col. North my recollection is that i did not know the magnitude of the funds that were remaining in whatever accounts, i do not know the names or numbers of any but one, and that was the lake account, which i provided to the state department for use and i provided it to representatives for the money as were providing to support the resistance. I also testified that i had asked on a number of occasions to general secord who demanded eyeing gauge in this activity at the approval of my superiors, but i had asked on a number of occasions that general secord said funds aside for other activities. I testified in executive session as to what some of those would be. I have not gone back to say that if i had added up all of those other activities it would have come out to be 20 million i had asked to set aside. I do not know what the final tally would be. The important thing is, i did not know there was that sum remaining. I do not know the purposes for which that sum was set aside. I do not know the accounts are names, and never considered that a penny of that was mine. I have also testified that were i to be the adjudicator of where that money went, after all the bills were paid and liabilities were covered, i would send that money, every nickel of it, to the Nicaraguan Resistance. That was the original purpose for setting up those nonus government entities. When you testified about this huge sum of money, you said you were shocked. Is that a fair characterization . Col. North i was, and i would point out, i did not know until these hearings began that there is any set sum set aside. I have not communicated with these people for these many months. I do not know the purposes for which they had established these accounts or even that the accounts existed. I absolutely believe that mr. North. Let me ask you another question. These moneys came from several sources, the sales of arms to iran and from solicitations to countries and individuals, is that correct . Col. North that is my understanding, yes. Is it true that neither mr. Hakim nor mr. Secord contributed to this enterprise . Col. North i do not know. Was it to be used for governmental purposes . Col. North i beg to differ with that particular description. We go all the way back to 1984 when this activity was initiated. The purpose was for these outside, nonu. S. Government entities to assist in prosecuting the foreignpolicy goals of the United States. It was never intended anybody get rich or that anybody do anything with the money other than support those Foreign Policy goals. Unfortunately, there seems to be an idea that developed as a consequence of my testimony, that there was a government within a government or a cia within a cia. Or that somehow, these moneys belonged to the u. S. Government. I do not view it that way, i am not a financial expert or Legal Authority on those kinds of activities. I saw those foreign entities, the network of Companies Set up as being there to support the prosecution of foreignpolicy goals. It was never envisioned in my mind this would be hidden from the president. I know there is some debate raised while i was away this weekend. Thankfully, blissfully unaware of the media coverage, but now apprised of it. That somehow we will use these for things the president would not know about. It was always my understanding that it was a shortterm project, not something that would go on ad infinitum. Him that partially is a question raised by representative jenkins last week. It was a fix for shortterm problem. I described to you in executive session some of the activities that were to be supported by these nonus government entities. Thank you. All my question contemplated was, these moneys were to be used to advance foreignpolicy goals of the United States. Col. North yes. Thank you. Now, youve talked about other initiatives that were contemplated. It is my understanding they were contemplated but not undertaken. Is that true . Col. North as i told the committees executive session, we actually started on a number of them. For example, the purchase of the ship was undertaken to pursue a particular activity. Moneys were indeed expended on that and the ship was used for a number of different purposes, as i indicated the other night. There were also moneys set aside for the purchase of a particular weapons system those moneys were not expended. Col. North i cannot speak to that. I understand. Lets talk about prices and accountability. Did you are general secord establish the prices for the arms sold . Col. North i established no prices whatsoever. As i think i testified and certainly as is well known, it was a very competitive marketplace, if you will, to which the Nicaraguan Resistance could turn. The only thing i did was to intervene at the suggestion of director casey. That two particular arms purveyors not be used until the agency was able to determine one, the source of funding for one of them. I believe i talked to that in executive session, and whether or not a certain european who provided arms was involved in reverse Technology Transfer to the east bloc. He asked me to intervene to prevent arms from being sold to those two individuals. I establish no prices or levels or amounts of any kind. I am not suggesting you did. The answer to the question is, general secord did that. Col. North i do not know if general secord did that. But i think it took place between general secord and people you was dealing with. Toward establishing the Southern Front, munitions were provided without cost. It was flown down and airdropped to the Southern Front, for example. Albert hakim has testified it was secord. Col. North i do not know the substance of his testimony. Is it fair to say it was hakim or secord or someone else to have the responsibility to decide what was fair and just compensation . Col. North yes. Did mr. Secord or mr. Hakim sit down with you to give you accounting of their profits . Col. North no. Did they ever sit down with contra leaders over their activities . Col. North i do not know. What you are telling us, if there was no financial oversight by the u. S. Government col. North i have given the records i maintained, those that remain, anyway. You also have from my files a number of the messages which refer in gross terms to funds remaining in various overseas entities. That is about the level i had specific knowledge on. I did not do any accounting, i do not hire an Accounting Firm to do it. I am not trying to be lighthearted about it. It was simply a matter of, things were moving quickly. And that kind of accounting was not done. Sen. Trible obviously, you are a busy man, relying on them for these matters, is that correct . Col. North yes. Sen. Trible under established channels, covert matters taken by cia or cia operatives, isnt there strict financial oversight and accountability . Col. North generally, yes. Sen. Trible i am not intimately familiar with the comptrollers office. It is well enough known they do rigorous accounting for the expenditures of funds. I would point out, however, there is still a debate ongoing within the congress and the gao and state department over the accounting of 27 million in humanitarian assistance funds. It has been widely reported in various media accounts that i was somehow engaged in siphoning money off from those activities. Those reports are untrue. It is a difficult thing to do. Even under the best of circumstances, trying to account for monies like the 27 million, is a difficult task. I am confident that after the review of nicaraguan humanitarian assistance monies, there will still be people to debate whether accurate or sufficient accounting has been done. Sen. Trible is it fair to say that under normal procedures, when covert operations are undertaken by the government, there is always strict accounting of those activities, and that here, there was not . Him col. North given my knowledge, i think that is a fair statement. Sen. Trible lets talk about the relationship between mr. Hakim and mr. Secord. Colonel north, i know you have known general secord for many years and have Great Respect for him. Col. North i am sorry, senator. Sen. Trible no problem. I know you have known general secord for many years and had Great Respect for him. Is it true you do not know mr. Hakim, and still do not know much about the business relationship between secord and hakim . Col. North i first met mr. Hakim i believe in january of 1984. I came to recognize this was a man who wanted to assist the u. S. Government in the restoration of a relationship with his native land. Correction, i first met him in february of 1986. I do not know the nature of the financial relationship with the general secord, the business relationship he had. I do not consider that a prerequisite of using them as an interpreter for one of our meetings, or a series of meetings which occurred in europe. Nor did i see it inconsistent he would be engaged after i found out about it in establishing the european entities and foreign entities. Not all in europe, some in latin america, that supported this mission. Col. North mr. Secord said the money come the residuals, belong to the enterprise and it was going by mr. Hakim. Did you know that . Col. North no. But what i knew was that a series of a network, of overseas networks had been established to oversee the activities. Different overseas companies would carry out discrete activities to avoid the crossover of knowledge between various operations. Thus, one would carry out the purchase of land in a Central American country for the purpose of building an airstrip. They would fund for that airstrip and do the construction. Whereas another company would be engaged in the delivery of munitions. That network, as i understood it, was basically laid out for these activities by general secord. And now obviously, with the assistance of mr. Hakim. But i do not know the details of that relationship. Sen. Trible the point that want to make here is, the money was controlled not by mr. Secord, a man you knew and trusted, but rather by mr. Hakim, a man you admitted you hardly knew. That must come as a surprise. Col. North it does, it is one of the reasons i said i was shocked. The magnitude of the money remaining in the various accounts, i am not entirely sure we are all speaking from the same sheet of music. But that has been serious. When mr. Hakim describes profit, and im talking about what director casey referred to as selfsustaining entities, i am not so sure those are inconsistent. I look forward to the day i consider down and talk about where those remaining moneys go to the people that control them. Sen. Trible i wish you could spend 10 minutes with mr. Hakim. You could be of great help to the committee. Lets talk about the future of these enterprises. Did you and bill casey or general poindexter establish plans for the future in the events that bill casey left of this cia or became disabled or died . Col. North no. Sen. Trible what about your reassignment in the marine corps, where their contingency plans for that . Col. North one thing director casey was looking to he was talking about the use of outside entities, to support limited Foreign Policy goals. I described some of those to the committee the other evening. It was not the kind of thing director casey had in mind for outliving even his tenure as director of central intelligence. But we never got to that point. We were not able to establish in the longer term, where is it all going from here. I regarded this as an imaginative solution to some shortterm problems. A number of the initiatives undertaken that i briefed the committees on the other night assumed these were immediate, shortterm, once you conducted that activity you could put the company back on the shelf or do away with it. That is how i saw it being pursued. It was not a matter, as representative jenkins and i discussed, i do not think as a matter of what happened after bill casey goes and ollie north goes, who is the successor that would carry those activities out. Sen. Trible but it is an important question, isnt not . Marine colonels are reassigned, directors of the cia died. Mr. Secord could have suffered a disability or loss of life. Who was going to control this operation in the future . Was there any plan in place . Col. North we never got to the point where a plan such as that was developed. Sen. Trible what was going to happen when the Reagan Administration came to an end . Col. North we looked to the fact that these operations would shut down. It was not something we wanted to go on in perpetuity. Sen. Trible you werent going to turn it over to the democrats, then . Col. North you said that, senator. Sen. Trible i did, with a smile on my face. That does not deserve an answer. Albert hakim volunteered in his testimony he was trying to pass money to you in your family. Earlier, a lawyer named david lewis called the committee and volunteered that William Zucker had asked him to find a way to get money to your wife, betsy. At first we did not follow that up because it was inconsistent with our image of you. The been hakim, a man that says that he loves you, testified he asked zucker to try to pass money to you and nothing came of those efforts. We know you are not in this for profit, and you have spoken powerfully and convincingly about that. But my question is this doesnt it appear that mr. Hakim and zucker were trying to compromise your set you up to gain influence or leverage . Col. North senator, i did not hear that testimony. I guess my concern is that this committee not have any reservations whatsoever. I was unaware of any activities beyond what i described. Sen. Trible i absolutely understand that. Col. North number two, even if that was known to me, there were other attempts. Does not mean that it works. I do not know the motivation of mr. Hakim or his lawyer, in trying to pursue various initiatives. I do know, that having reviewed certain testimony before this committee, that an indication of calls being made or arrangements being made to meet with my wife after the one meeting that i described to you and the one telephone call in june, are patently untrue. And thus, the characterization of motivations by mr. Lewis or others, or events by mr. Lewis and others, are, to my knowledge and that of my wife, totally untrue. I cannot speak to the medivations of those people who described other events. Sen. Trible i appreciate your reluctance to do so. The record demonstrates you acted most appropriately under this situation. However, i asked those questions because i really can conceive of no other reason for those initiatives. If they were really trying to help you, they would have gone to you directly, it seems to me. They surely would not have volunteered this information as they did. But i thank you for your answer there. We just have to sit back and judge as best we can as the pieces of the puzzle come together. Lets talk about profits. There is been testimony that mr. Hakim and secord were reaping large profits by marking up the arms being sold to the contras. For example, mr. Hakim testified before us that during august of 1986, mr. Secord agreed to a suggestion of tom clines that they maximize the profits from the last sale of arms to the contras. Were you aware of that . Col. North no. Sen. Trible mr. Hakim testified from his records at a profit of 861,000 was made on that 2. 1 million transaction. At that as a markup of 41 . When you aware that kind of profit was being made . Col. North no, i do not. Sen. Trible do believe that kind of profit is fair or just . Col. North i would have to go over these issues with general secord and mr. Hakim. I do not know what their expenses were. I do not know what their activities were planned for the use of those moneys. I did not know there was anything of that magnitude in that transaction. Sen. Trible were you aware that the 861,000 profit was divided equally between hakim, secord and clines . Col. North no, i was unaware throughout that these accounts even existed. Sen. Trible isnt it true that theyre taking of such outlandish profits is inconsistent with your goal of helping the contras keep their body and soul together . Col. North i had no indication it was done for personal gain, as indicated in my testimony, i never set out to make anybody rich. I did not know of these transactions when they occurred. I did not know the magnitude of any of the use of those in terms of compensation. The only thing i specified at the very beginning was that it was understood good that fair, just, reasonable compensation would be derived, that includes the pilot separate themselves at risk and those in daytoday business would in some way be compensated. That was the sole level of my understanding on it. Sen. Trible i have no questions about your motives here, colonel north. But it seems to me that this kind of profit, 861,000 from the 2. 1 million transaction cannot be categorized by anyone as fair or just or appropriate. You do not disagree with that . Col. North i didnt try to characterize it. Sen. Trible i understand. Was anyone else in the government of the United States aware of these Profit Margins . Col. North the my knowledge, no one was aware of the details of these activities at all. Sen. Trible so you were the only person, and you were not aware . Col. North i was not. Sen. Trible lets move it beyond that and talk about investment of these funds for private purposes. The testimony also reveals mr. Secord and hakim invested huge sums of your residuals and private business ventures. For example, did they inform you they invested 150,000 in tri american arms . Col. North i do not think i ever heard of triamerican arms until these trials started. Sen. Trible also, residuals were invested in washington cumberland from which they expected to make millions. And there was a Purchase Price of 1. 5 million. Did you know about that . Col. North no. Sen. Trible is that an appropriate use of these funds, in your judgment . Col. North once again, i do not know that those are those funds. Thatd representing to you is how the money was used. Is that an appropriate use of those funds. I dont think these funds or any of them should have been used to make someone rich. You are asking me to make judgments of transaction i have no knowledge. It is not there for me to characterize anybodys decision based on that knowledge. I did not engage in this to make anybody rich in the process. No one appeared no one. The problem is, they were getting rich and they were advancing money to advance their self interests. Investmentof private have no governmental purpose, do they . Not that i know of. Lets move to another area. That is one that is of importance to both of us and that is the democratic resistance in nicaragua. Future,ryttunes, hopes, is it fair to say you are doing everything humanly possible to help the contras in their fight for freedom . Senator, without going into and ever more on this statement, theres not anyone else in the United States of america that works so hard for the survival of Nicaraguan Resistance from 1984 and 1986. This is a hesitant army . Peasant army . Yes that includes people of the intelligentsia of nicaragua. Ive been to this camps and i remember walking down the long line of these young nicaraguan and stopping and asking what internet, where are you from, why are you here. The answers were different and yet the theme was the same. They said i have left because my family farm was taken away by the sandinistas. They will say, my church was closed for my priest sent away or my brother was taking by the sandinistas and may serve in the army. Many 70 sandinistas have not given us the freedom they have promised. These are young men laid their lives of one for freedom. We care about them, a lot of people care about the here. You laid out there need and your concerns about their plight. We read that for me please. You read that for me, please. If youa copy of it here would accept my recitation my representation. Would you read it from the start to finish . Date that you wrote that and to whom it went if you can decipher that as well. Appears to be a note from tier who was for capion to admiral poindexter. The subject is special meeting in central america. Please pass to don, he was at the Time Assistant deputy to the president for national security. Trip to el salvador and honduras, theres great anxiety that the congress will not act in time to stave off a major defeat for the resistance. This sense exists in the governments of honduras and el a viable but a lack of source of resupply is now beginning to affect the political viability of the unified nicaraguan opposition leadership as well. In front of the Southern Front commanders, the colonel questions the dream of scarce resources. End 68,000ed to s troops in the next few days, he said they will have to back out in 1520 days if there is no resupply. Their most pressing need is for antiaircraft. The entire force is back to one meal per day and no more boots, uniforms, weapons or punches are available for the new recruits. New trainees will be turned away effective today. Nicaraguaurning to will carry only 70100 rounds of ammunition at the post to the 500 rounds they had been carrying. Theres no way to pass commands or intelligence because there are no radios. While we should not raise specific sources, we need to explore this problem urgently or there will not be a force to help. Regards, north. On the very day he wrote that note of the bear, there was over 4. 8 million in the accounts controlled by mr. Hakeim in the states. I do not know to this day whether those funds were set aside for the other activities i breached in this committee on. How many boots could have been purchased, how many lives saved it just a portion of those moneys had been sent to the nicaraguan resist . 16 dollars a pair pair, aviation resupply costs considerably. The more money available to the resistance, the better their fortunes would be. Throughout all caps on, throughout all caps on, your major priority was to help the contract by their battle. Contra fight their battle. It was. I believe you i would mr. Chairman like to make one personal observation. Hakeim andies that secord, weve seen private interest run roughshod over public motives. The trust of colonel north was betrayed. All this demonstrates the sheer folly of conducting a business without checks and balance. Thank you mr. Chairman and i would like to reserve the balance of my time. Thank you, senator hatch. Colonel north, for the past four days ive listen to your testimony, set at the witness table, armed only with that at your side or should i say no plan. In some respects from where i on, you have shed new light matters that have come before this committee. You have admitted error, except in some blame, provided helpful explanation about what was going on and why they occurred in the first place. Your motives and intentions from your perspective were always good for our country, were always wellintentioned in the best interest of our country. Of you helps take the fair away from the media, some of whom i think four months tried to make it something it was not. Having said that, i do not say all of it, some of it, having said that, they can judge themselves whether they fit in one or the other category but i think the American People know. Having said that, i dont want to give the impression that i believe there were not some mistakes made here. I think the trading of arms for hostages is wrong and to the extent the Iran Initiative became strictly a arm for hostages deal, i think that was wrong. I also feel that misleading and lying to congress can never be conducted. Never be condoned. We have to come up with a workable system where the executive branch does not feel it has to mislead the congress. You agree with that . I do. What about drug smuggling, there is some saying the contras are involved in cocaine trafficking. That or any truth to can you shed any light . Absolutely false, mr. Owen is the last person who would ever be engaged in those kinds of activities and when he found any information pertaining to the possibility of involvement in drugs, he told me i will tell the appropriate federal authorities. Absolutely false, senator. I take it in your opening statement, you stress this committees final conclusion would be asked to put the blame on the executive ranch and we would not be able to blame to share that light. Share that blame. In my view, thanks to your testimony, we may yet stand a chance of understanding the broader foreignpolicy objectives of the Iran Initiative. I would like to read something from the infamous diversions in the this is very little about the version diversions memo. The eight lines pertaining to the diversion have been dwelled on incessantly. And that memorandum make the following statement, the u. S. Side made an effort to refocus iranian attention by the threat focused the threat has by the soviet union and that we need to create a connection between our two countries based on more than arms. The hostage situation was a quote hurdle that we must get over. Thes that accurately reflect nature of the arms transaction . Yes. To admiral poindexter, you wrote your ties with the iranian were going well and that quote we may want to move quickly beyond the quote obstacle of the hostages, sincerely believing we can bring in into the yuan, iraq ir aniraq war. If you had achieved that objective alone, the Iran Initiative would have been quite a success. Broad foreignpolicy goals were associated with the Iran Initiative. In addition, the protection of Northern Tier state like pakistan, india, afghanistan. Was that part of what you are trying to be . Yes. And to keep them supporting the Freedom Fighters in afghanistan . Yes. Saudi arabia, egypt, kuwait, or they important parts of your goals . Yes. Weans one of this goals to iran away from it support of terrorism . Yes. Was the delivery of a captured Russian Military equipment to the United States part of the plan . Yes. Was the elimination of the iranian support for the sandinistas part of your role . Yes. If we could have gotten the which concerned all of these broader foreignpolicy goals, that still would have been an excellent result, wheouldnt it . In the end i would not have been alone. There are memorandums that you have brought forth that are part of these stacks of documents that are taller than you that have indicated that you were terribly afraid that they might be murdered or killed. Yes. That is why you are flying all over the world, 1820 hours a day. We did a lot of trouble, senator. We did a lot of travel, senator. With these hearings be beneficial if they resulted in a better under antithat sometimes covert operation are necessary and if they are to begin a chance to succeed, they must be kept secret. Do you think these hearings may achieve some success, i may be on a man shot, do you think the hearings might achieve some success in Congress Advertising recognizing that the president needs to be given some latitude to carry out his policy objectives without members of congress and secretaries of state secondguessing what the president is trying to do . I believe that. I think congress has been interfering far too much. There is a role of congress and that is the appropriations of money to carry out the policy. It should not be a constant micromanaging of the policy, should it . Not at all. Would it be good to finally learn the lesson that the leader of the free world and if we say we are the leader, if we say we are going to help a neighbor such as the Freedom Fighters in nicaragua that we better be in for the long haul rather than cutting and running every year. Maybe the hearings can get that across. That is which has the face of the white house every time you thought you had nothing on track, congress would come up with some other theory . Seems like an annual affair. And not only contradicted what you are trying to do but sit different messages to the rest of the world. Were you afraid the United States might be considered an unreliable partner in World Affairs because what we were doing . Yes. We are considered a unreliable partner by foundations in this world. Correct. Would it be as a result of these hearings, we start to provide consistent report consistent support to the contras as they seek to bring about a democratic revolution to the situation in nicaragua and to make sure we never have to send our american to fight in that troubled region so close to our own borders. With that in a good result of this hearing . Yes. If we do not support the Nicaraguan Democratic resistance , what in your opinion you think might happen in the next 20 years . Mike it will not take 20 years, it will take a lot less. The communist regime in nicaragua will spread that revolution, you will see democracy parish in the rest of south america and refugees come to the american borders. Thedestruction of a construction of a gurgling like like wall. Lin just last week we authorized to hundred thousand nicaragua to stay in this country 200,000 nicaragua to stay in this country. Refugeesalking about and cindy for native support to defend our borders nato s upport to defend our borders. The field of these hearings may be important do you feel bese hearings may important if they give support to the Freedom Fighters in angola, afghanistan, cambodia where they are committed to pushing out the communist who want to take away their farms and businesses and freedoms. Tell the a magnificent outcome. Magnificentd be a outcome. Avenue onnnsylvania both sides start understanding . One of the points you have mae here, he said he lied because you were worried about sources and methods and ambassadors and representatives of other nations. Sometimestough choice between telling the truth if it means the death of some of our most important asset or it means the disruption of some of our most important for policy in the policies ineign the wordl. Ld. Would it be a good thing if the next time the Senate Intelligence committee writes a 150 page secret report such as it waslast december, voted by members of the committee that it not be released to the press or just one segment of the press, you think we ought to, the think that will be a good thing if we get that across . I think so. Would it be good if we reconsidered facing the kind of public media shows where we disclose details to our International Friends and enemies the details of our national security. This is what is happening to a degree. I think these hearings are very important but that is something we need to be concerned about. If we must ever have these kinds of hearings, they should not be turned into forums on persons prematurely judged of criminal conduct. That would be good, sir. I saw a lot of premature judgment in this process. Would you agree with another statement when he says quote if the investigative power of congress is unlimited, the separations of powers and down must strike you strike it down. This is written in a thesis called limited government and unlimited investigation. Let me tell you, they were true then and true today. Thats in partial fulfillment for the requirement of the bachelors degree. I have to say regardless of what others have done here, author an has conducted himself in accordance with what he wrote 33 years ago. I will finish with these remarks, i respect these people up here and i have terrific respect for every member of this panel. I also have a great deal of respect for you. It is not easy to sit there for five days and go through what you have had together and admit some of the mistakes that have been made. Based upon what i have seen and heard in these hearings, there are mistakes here, to the extent this was purely an arms transfer for hostages, i have to disagree with that. Your answers have shown it is more. I dont think the nsd should ever operate covert operation and i dont think we should have had a diversion of funds. It is a neat idea to take money from the ayatollah and send them to the fighters in nicaragua but i dont think it was right. Butoints out the difficulty the plan was still a neat idea, i have to admit. I think you are right in your desires to help because we were not helping them like we should have. We were not supporting this policy in our own hemisphere. These hearings point out the old the out the difficulty of private station of our privatization of our Foreign Policy. These hearings should not let the congress escape, if there is anything that should come out of these hearings it should be that we acted very sanctimonious and act like we never would have we have never had the responsibility of caring them out carrying them out. We can all agree whether weeks or the or did not whether we supported the policy. I want you to know that it is hard for us to believe it up here but Congress Makes mistakes and it has been making mistakes for most of the iran contra and most of the contra affair weve had in this hemisphere. Whether you believe it or not, we should come up with a consistent policy where everyone knows where america stands. Ill be honest, based on what ive heard with your mission of mistake, your mission some of the things you think were wrong in reference that in retrospect, i do not want you prosecuted, i do not. I do not think many people in america do and i think there will be hell raised if you are. That does not mean they will not. Sticklersnot mean want yourb do not wna last pound of flesh. Manynot think people want that to happen. Thank you for your testimony. Thank you, mr. Chairman. America, next on real we continue our look back 30 years at the iran contra investigation. 1987
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