Government. Funding was riveted. Was prohibited. Sen. Inouye the chair recognizes senator mitchell. Sen. Mitchell good morning, colonel north. Oliver l. North there are many of us on this panel that support Ronald Reagan and believe in the contra costa. The contra cause. There is no evidence on the wrong part of the doing of our president. I believe the essence the American Experience is the pursuit of freedom and around the world. That is why we must oppose the marcus tierney in nicaragua. That is why we must help young nicaraguanss fight for their freedom as well. The last week, has not been an easy one for any of us. It has been a time of probing questions and honest answers on your part. You have done well. Yes capture the imagination of the American People. You have done that because he told the truth, fully candidly. You are a man who is doing his duty. You are acting with the knowledge and authority of your superiors. You have demonstrated an amazing ability to get results. I know it has been a difficult time for your family. I believe these hearings are necessary. The ruleo values truth of law must be troubled by what we have heard for the last 10 weeks. When Public Policy is taken private. And government operates to operate as a its operated channels, there is no checks and balances. People, a consequence good people and policy getting into trouble. That is what we have seen. President kennedy used to tell a story i used to believe captures the spirit of these hearings. 1780, there is a total eclipse of the sun. At noon, it was as dark as midnight. , vision of people attributed this kind of happening to the day of judgment. For the coming of the lord. Connecticut legislature was meeting in hartford. The members returning to chaos. House,aker of the colonel davenport silence the motions with his gavel. He spoke these words. Gentlemen, i do not know if the world is coming to an end or not. If it is not, there is no reason to adjourn. If it is, i want the lord to come and see me in my duty. Thatl entertain a motion candles be brought into this chamber so we may this all of democracy. Our duty is to light a candle. Of American Campaign the American People can judge and see what is going on. It is not an easy job or happy one. It is one that must be done. When an obvious problem private policy goes a Public Policy goes private. Private citizens may be motivated by profit. North, it is clear to me in the American People that you are motivated by ideals. Profit. Pursuit of you have spoken powerfully about that. Say what i would like to do, with your help, is to ask questions about the financial aspects of the enterprise directed by mr. Hakim. Last wednesday you testified he would be compensated in a just and fair permission. Is that correct . Ifi will take your word that is what i said and what i said. Establishes he and support amassed a . 1 million in the Bank Accounts amassed 8. 1 million in the Bank Accounts. You know it was stocked away . My recollection is what i testify to is that i did not. Now the magnitude of the funds i do not know the names or numbers but one. It was the lake account in which i provided to the state and thefor presenters of another country for the money they were providing support the resistance. Ied that i asked general secord and with the approval of my superiors. I asked on a number of occasions that general secord said funds beside for other activities. Sessiony an executive to what the other activities were. I have not come back to say if i had added up all of the other activities, it wouldve come up to be 20 million that i asked. I do not know with the final tally would be. The important thing is that i did not know that there was that some remaining. I do not know the purposes for which that some was set aside. I do not know the accounts or the names or numbers on any of those. I never considered a penny of it was mine. The righttified that of the and the liabilities recovered. I would send the money every nickel of it to the Nicaraguan Resistance, the original purpose for setting out for setting up all of the nonus Government Entities. Last week when you testified this, you use the word shocked. Is that a fair characterization . I was. I would point out, i believe it was under questioning by counsel. I do not know until these hearings began that there was any such some fine. I have not communicated with these people. I do not know the purposes for which they establish the accounts. I believe that. Let me ask another question. These money this money came from several sources. It came from chiron and solicitations and countries and individuals, is that correct . That is my understanding, yes. Neither of them contributed any capital to this . I do not know. There is no question in your mind, the money was to be used for governmental purposes . Differ going to beg to with that particular description. , we go back to 1984 when this activity was initiated. The purpose was for these outside nonus Government Entities to assist in prosecuting the foreignpolicy goals of the United States. It was never intended that anybody get rich. It was never intended that thene would do anything support the force and before policy goals. It seems to be an idea that there was a government within a government or there was a cia , somehowcia or that these moneys been gone to the these money belong to the u. S. Government. I am not a financial expert or a Legal Authority on those activities. Entities,e foreign the network of companies and the like set up as being there to support the prosecution of Foreign Policy goals it was never envisioned my mind that this would be hidden from the president. Thankfully, unaware of the media coverage. To use ite are going for the things the president would not know about. It was always my understanding it was a shortterm project. Not something that would go on. Bya question that was raised representative jenkins last week. It was a fix for a shortterm problem. Some of the activities to be supported by these nonus government moneys. I thank you. These moneys were to be used to advance the fourth and policy goals of the niceties. Otherlked about initiatives that were contemplated. Is that true . We actually started on a number of them example, the purchase of aparticular weapon system, which the ship was used for a number of purposes. , as i indicated. There were also money set aside, at least in my understanding that they were set aside for a particular weapon system, which both moneys were not extended . I do not believe they were. I cannot speak uncertainty with that. Now, lets move to a of prices, commissions, and accountability. Did you or general secord establish the prices for the arms sold to the contras . Oliver north i established no prices, whatsoever. And, as i think i testified and certainly as is well known, it it was a very competitive marketplace, if you will, to which the Nicaraguan Resistance could turn. The only thing that i did was to i believed i talked to that in executive session,and whether or not a certain european who had provided arms was,indeed involved in reversetechnology he asked me to intervene, to keep arms from being purchased from those two individuals, and i did so. I established no prices; i established no levels; i established no amounts, of any kind. Sen. Trible i viewed those transactions as being taking place between general secord and those with whom he was dealing. I do know that toward the end of the activity in establishing the Southern Front, that munitions north yes. They evers it you down and give you an accounting of their profits. North no. Do they sit down with the leaders and give their accounts . North i do not know. There is no financial oversight for you or the United States government. You have a number of residues which refer, in gross terms to funds remaining in various overseas entities. That is about the level that i had specific knowledge on. I did not do it in accounting. I did not hire an Accounting Firm to do it. We did not bring in the jail. Thats ugly a matter kind of counting was not done. Sen. Trible youre a busy man. You are relying on them to handle these matters. Isnt that correct . North that is correct. Sen. Trible under established channels, went over operations were taken by cia operatives, isnt there a should oversight or account ability. North generally, yes. I am the intimately familiar with the contours office at langley. But is well enough known that they do a rigorous accounting of the expenditures of funds in the cant root of a covert operation. I would point out, however, senator, and i think its important that there is still a debate, ongoing, within the , congress and the gao, and the statedepartment, over the accounting of 27 million in nicaraguan humanitarian assistance funds. It has been widely reported invarious media accounts, that i was somehow engaged in siphoning money off from those activities. Those reports are untrue. It is adifficult thing to do, and even under the best of circumstances, trying to account for monies like the 27 million, is a difficult task, and i am confident that at the end of all sen. Trible what covert operations were overtaken by the government, there is a strict accounting of the accounting. There was not . North given my knowledge, i think it is a fair statement. Sen. Trible lets move on and talk about the relationship between the relationship. You have no them from a years. And you have Great Respect for him. North im sorry. Sen. Trible i know you know have known him for great years and have respect for him. Is it true you do not know much about our hacking any soldier not know much at all about his relationship between secord and hakim . Inth i first met mr. Hakeem the february of 1984. I came to recognize that this was a man who certainly wanted to assist the u. S. Government and the restoration of the relationship of his native land. I first met him in in every 1986, not 1984. I do not know the nature of the financial relationship with general secord or a business relationship he had. I did not consider it to be a pure requisite of using them as an interpreter for one of our meetings or a series of meetings which occurred in europe. I do not see it inconsistent that he would be engaged after i found out about it in establishing the european entities and for entities, not in europe that supported this initiative. Testimony, in his said the money, the residuals in the accounts, belong to the enterprise. The enterprise was over mr. Hakeem. If you know that . North no. Series, aw was a network if you will, of overseas entities have been established to care activities. To the extent practicable, different overseas companies would carry out discreet activities, to avoid the crossover of knowledge between various operations. And thus, one of the companies would carry out the purchase ofland in a Central American country for the purpose of building an airstrip. They would fund for that airstrip, they would conduct the construction and the like; whereas another company would be engaged in, for example, the delivery of munitions. And that network, as iunderstood it, was basically laid out for these activities by gen. Secord. And now, obviously, with the assistance of mr. Hakim. But i do not know the details of the relationship. Sen. Trible the point i want to make here is the one he was not controlled by mr. Secor, a man you knew and trust, but rather by mr. Hakim, a man you had admitted you hardly new. That must come as a surprise. North it does. That is why i was shocked at the magnitude of the money remaining in the various accounts. I am not entirely sure that we are all speaking from the same sheet of music. It is somewhat tongueincheek. Mr. Hakim describes profit, and im talking about what director casey referred to as self sustaining entities, i am not sure if they are consistent. I look for to the day where i can sit down and talk about where those remaining scope with the people who are they are the controller. Sen. Trible i wish you could spend 10 minutes with mr. Hakim. You could be a great help to the committee. Lets talk about the future of the enterprises. It you and bill casey or admiral poindexter established plans for the future in the event that bill casey had left the cia or became disabled or die . North no. Sen. Trible what about your reassignment in the remaining court . Twitter contingent in the marine corps . Were there contingency plans . The things that director casey was looking into was not something that would sustain in the 1990s in the activities. He was talking about the use of outside entities to support limited form policy goals of the government. I described some of the activities to the committees in the executive session. It was not the kind of thing that that i dont think director casey had in mind for outliving even his tenure as director of central intelligence. Although, as i indicated in mytestimony, we never got to that point. We were i regarded this as an magic of solution to some shortterm problems. A number of the initiatives that were overtaken that i briefed them on assume that these were immediate shortterm you could put the company back on the shelf or do away with it. That is how i saw it been pursued. Ofwas not a matter representative jenkins and i discussed, i do not think as a matter what happens after both casey goes and all he north goes some of the successor is that would carry the activities out. That is sen. Trible is that an important, is it not . Marine colonels are reassigned. Doctors of the cia died. Mr. Court mr. Secord couldve suffered as disability or loss of fight lost loot loses life. Was there any plan in place . North we never got to a point where it plan was developed. Whentrible what happened the Reagan Administration was coming to an end . North the operations would shut down. This is not something logo in perpetuity. Sen. Trible youre not going to turn it over to the democrats . North you said that. Sen. Trible i did. It does not deserve an answer. Lets move to another area. Other hakeem volunteered our albert hakim onto his testimony that he was trying to pass the money to your family. Earlier, a lawyer named david lewis, called the committee and volunteered that William Zucker had asked him to find a way to getmoney to your wife, betsy. Now at first, we didnt follow that up because it was absolutely inconsistent with our image of you. Nothing came of the efforts. We know youre not in it for profit. You have spoken powerfully and convincingly about that. But, my question is this. Doesnt it appear that mr. Hakim and zucker were trying to compromise you or set you up to gain influence or leverage . North senator, i did not hear that testimony. And i guess my concern is that this committee not have any reservations whatsoever. I was unaware of any activities beyond what i described. Sen. Sen. Trible absolute understand. North i described there were other attempts at those things. It does not mean it works. I dont know the motivation of mr. Hakim or his lawyer in trying to pursuevarious initiatives. I do know that having reviewed certain testimony before this committee, that an indication of calls being made or arrangements being made to meet with my wife after the one meeting that i described to you, and the one telephone call in june,are patently untrue. And thus, the characterization of motivations by mr. Lewis or others, or events by mr. Lewis and others, are, tomy knowledge and that of my wife, totally untrue. Now, i cannot speak to the motivations of those other people whove described other events. Sen. Trible i can conceivably the reason for the issues. If they were helping to help you, they would have gone to directly. And they surely would not have volunteeredthis information as they did. But i thank you for your answer there. Well just have to sit back and judge as best we can as the for example, albert hakim has testified before us that during august of 1986, mr. Secord agreed to a suggestion of tom kleins that they maximize the profits from the last sale of arms to the contras. Were you aware of that . Oliver north no. Sen. Trible yes testified that a prophet of 861,000 was made on that 2. 1 million transaction. ,. Sen. Trible he believes that type of profit is fair and just. North again, i would have to sit down and go under these issues with c court i do not know what their expenses were. I do not know what the activities were for the planned use of the moneys. But i certainly did not know that there was anything ofthat magnitude in that transaction. Sen. Trible i was unaware of the fact that these accounts even existed. Sen. Trible isnt it true that their taking of suchoutlandish profits is absolutely inconsistent with your goal of helping the contras keep their body and soul together . North there is no doubt if he was done for personal game, as i indicated in my testimony, i never set up to make anybody rich. I dont know what was envisioned by those transactions. I did not know of them when they occurred, and i did not know the magnitude of any of the use of those in terms of compensation. The only thing that i specified right out at the very beginning is that it was understood that fair,just and reasonable compensation would be derived by those people involved in the activities. That included the pilots who putthemselves at risk and those involved and taken out of their normaldiscourse of daytoday events, daytoday business would in someway be compensated. That was the sole level of my understanding on it. Sen. Sen. Trible it seems like this profit, 861,000 from the 2. 1 million transaction cannot becategorized by anyone as fair or just or appropriate. You dontdisagree with that . North i do not try to characterize it. Sen. Trible i understand. Now, was anyone in the government of the United States aware of these kinds of Profit Margins . North to my knowledge, no one else was aware of the details of those activities at all. Sen. Sen. Trible is moving beyond that. And talk about the investment of the funds per credit purposes. The testimony reveals mr. Secord investedveals they each sums. Did inform you that they invested 150,000 in time american arms . North i do not think i heard about it until the same started. Sen. Trible so the answer is no . North no. Sen. Trible feels a testified that another 100,0