Society hosted this discussion. It is about an hour and a half. I want to welcome you all to the California Historical society. We are deeply honored for our dear partners and friends. The San Francisco public library, you cannot ask for better friends. This is part of the one city, one book extravaganza. It allows us to present this incredible panel today. A special thanks to jim jones junior, who had hoped to be with us today. He was unable to participate due to health reasons. The California Historical society is honored to hold the peoples temple collection. It was chosen as the repository in 1983. We have worked with many survivors and many historians and students who want to learn about what happened in jonestown. We are proud to be the largest repository of these materials. The digitization of super eight films. A broader collection of materials. We invite you all to research it. All of our panelists have taken advantage of this collection. Preserving fbi files, photographs and other items. We invite you back to our library over my right shoulder. It is the portal to our remarkable collections. Jamie henderson has laid out a number of pieces from the collection. Some of the letters that david used to write his book. You can hold history in your hands. I will introduce my colleagues. Get the conversation going. We can take questions later. We are deeply honored that cspan is here. You will have found little pencils and blank cards so you can ask questions. Feel free to jot one down. Part of our team will come and collect the cards. We can answer a lot of questions in good time. John cobb. He is one of the few surviving members of the peoples temple. He was born into the temple. His family was part of that first pioneering effort who moved out from indianapolis to Redwood Valley in california. He was a member until the groups tragic and in 1978. He was in georgetown with the Basketball Team. He lost 10 members of his family in jonestown. He is currently writing a book about his story. We are all wishing him well. To his left, marshall kilduff. He walked over from the chronicle building on fifth admission. He has a long career of writing mostly for the chronicle but also a very powerful piece that was not accepted by the chronicle. He has given voice to politics and government, development, city affairs. As a native of San Francisco, he went to palo alto. He can integrate depth of narrative. He coauthored suicide cult, history of peoples temple and jim jones. Mr. Talbot, author of the book. As the generations fade those who actively remember being here in that november of 1978. Season of the witch is the book. By david talbot. Is being read widely this week. He was the founder and editorinchief of salon. Com. He figured out the web long before anybody else. Are you wearing your glasses . I have sensitive eyes. He has lovely eyes. He created a whole new way to consume knowledge. After leaving salon, he increased his reputation as a historian. We are welcoming in him into the fraternity of historians. He just finished a book on the kennedy brothers. He has worked at mother jones and rights for the new yorker, rolling stone, and many other publications. Eugene smith. He had just turned 21 years old prior to november 1978. He wrote, jonestown was the force that sealed me and dictated my immediate future at that time. My only responsibility was to survive. There was no place to hide or disappear. Smith lost his mother, his wife and his infant son that day. He has spent the rest of his life dedicated to remembering and persevering. He must bring us knowledge from the depths of his heart in his memory. He turned to writing. His recent articles include one for the jonestown report. He is also an work on a book. Please join me in welcoming them. [applause] i will ask david first to provide a brief historical context. Share with us the time, as you so beautifully show us, after the summer of love and the rise of the counterculture. It helps us understand the rise of peoples temple and the reverend jones. Talbot my new book is about the dark history of the cia. The context for peoples temple is that you really have to look at what was going on in the city already. The social disruption and the redevelopment the tour at the heart of black San Francisco. That was the seed in the garden for jim jones two establishes political roots in this town. He couldnt have done that if the fillmore had not been hollowed out by the San Francisco redevelopment agency. It tore out the heart and soul of what was once known as the harlem of the west. A vibrant middle class black community. My own son, joe talbot, is making a movie to continue that legacy. To this day, you have a defining a declining africanamerican population. It has been robbed of its portable power. Political power. When jim jones came here from Redwood Valley, he was moving into a political vacuum. He became such a powerful force because he was a master of manipulating people. Finding out what politicians weaknesses were. What his turn ons were at exploiting them. He delivered bodies and votes. 1975 was a key turning point. George moscone a narrowly won due to voter fraud. San francisco has to analyze what it did to the Africanamerican Community to allow that redevelopment or negro removal as James Baldwin called it. I am often reminded of that wonderful James Baldwin quote that American History is more beautiful and more terrible than anything written about it. The horrors of urban renewal. Targeting the japaneseamericans. Also the africanamerican communities. They had moved into some areas that had been held by japanese. An incredible cycle of displacement. In comes a man with great charisma and charm and power. I like to ask john and eugene to share some firsthand experiences. John my experience is unique in that there are probably two or three other people that were born into peoples temple who are still living. All of the things that ive read have been factual things. What has been missed was the daytoday occurrence of peoples temple lives. Several people made that temple function. It would have functioned perfectly without jones. Toward the end he was just incapable of doing anything. How do people live . Why were the people there . It was not a mindless cult. Many people i know who are still alive today are very successful. We were able to integrate back into society. Because we were not that much different at all. A lot of people say was involved politically. That was the driving force. I look at the same things happening today. The things that people are looking for today, education, health care, housing, being able to put food on the table. Once you became a member of the peoples temple, you did not have to worry about that anymore. Everyone wanted to make the world a better place. But those basic needs were provided for you. At some cost, yes. I have talked to a person that i knew whose family was part of peoples temple for about 20 years. I saw her a couple of years ago. She said, johnny boy, i wish there was Something Like peoples temple today. Kids today need that structure and purpose. There were a lot of terrible things that happened. But the reason why people were there was the functionality. It has really been missed. What has driven me to write is that the people who are no longer with us, their story has never been told. They died and were labeled as people who were casualties. Some of the people didnt want to be there. I will expose a lot of that in my book. Had they have the choice to leave, they would have. But there was so much more that was missed to that whole story. The craziness of jim jones has been repeated endlessly. I feel that where we are in our people are our time, ready to hear what else happened there. What are the facts . That is what has driven me to write. I was born there. I had a different understanding of it. I saw it for what it really was behind the scenes. A lot of people came in and saw jim jones as a prophet, a world healer, whatever, i dont know, god. I never saw him as that. A lot of the things that he perpetrated that he could do, i knew from day one that he wasnt doing those. Thats not why my family was there. My mother wanted a better life for her kids. My father eventually followed us. There were other reasons for it. Basically, that is my story. It would be a lot different from what is out there so far. I would love to come back to some of those stories about the daytoday life in peoples temple. We believe that we were all created equal. Eugene i came into the temple when i was 15. In detroit we were part of Aretha Franklins fathers church. We have been catholic, we had been baptists, we had been nondenominational. Every six months, it was a new religion. I revolted around 12 or 13 and i said im done with this. She had heard about jim jones. I went to hear him speak at irwin junior high in fresno. I didnt really come back and i was 18. I didnt really come back until i was 18. Then i moved into a commune in San Francisco. I stayed behind stage initially. For me the temple was a candy store in the sense that there were no limits on what i could do. There was no limit to happiness. No end to my learning. In seventh grade i was already reading at a 12th grade level. So coming into the peoples temple at 18, them having a printing press, having a woodshop. Having a construction crew. It all seemed normal. What made it seem so normal is that you can see this county at a meeting or willie brown would have a meeting or jane fonda. Something about this has to be real. So you assumed. What happens after a period of time is that jim jones became background noise. What you felt responsible for were the other people there. The other people there were your family. People stay because they didnt want to leave their family there alone. They didnt want them to be abused or possibly hurt. Or interrogated because you left. Some people stayed out of guilt, some people stayed out of responsibility. Some people stayed out of love for other human beings that they had no blood relationship with what they felt entitled to protect them and be at their call, so to speak. We never called old people old people. We called them seniors. They were the repository of knowledge. When an elder person spoke, you are expected to listen. If they needed assistance, you are expected to assist. They passed on their knowledge to us. And we passed our knowledge to the younger ones. Jonestown was a little bit different. Getting there was an adventure. Being there was an adventure. A lot of times, you were working. N adrenaline there was a certain urgency to it. You are being awakened out of a dead sleep and running to the pavilion. Were they under attack . Were they going to take the children . Were they going to bomb us off the map as if it never happened. Even if you knew that, there was a certain fright. Night, we were going through all these potholes. These potholes which is huge. You could not see the jungle. It was only 20 yards on each side of you. You only see what was in front of you. You could hear the pavilion miles away. People yelling and screaming. It was very close to venezuela. It was a disputed area between venezuela and guyana. By having a rigell a religious community there, it justified guyana seizing that particular property. Jumping off the trailer and going to the pavilion. Same people you had not seen for years or seen people you thought had left but hadnt, seeing my wife who was just weeks away from delivering a baby i not see my mother in over two years getting there and acclimating was easy. Staying there was difficult. Marshall, you started work in 1976. A reporter for the chronicle. Investigating the peoples temple church. Wanting to write about it for the chronicle but not accepted. How close the chronicle editorial leadership was to jim jones. Publishing his article. Marshall if you are trying to get me fired, you are doing a very good job. [laughter] a quick note of contrast between these idyllic and full enclosed life in the church and the way it looked to uri or at least to a reporter was nothing like that. Hostile, verys enclosed, didnt want to deal with the world except on its own strict and structured terms. It went everywhere on its own. About thelks totally homegrown or unopened organization. It was especially true if you worry were a reporter. Can i look your temple . Can i meet your people . Very difficult to be a historian. Very circumscribed and bounded world. The chronicle, the churchs they flattered the hell out of my boss. A new guy on the job would want to know that and be accepted. When i went to the church, they sat me in the front row right next to my boss. It was very clear that the temple was in charge of the deal and dont worry about it. The aspects of the church that were very troubling. Your life was really not your own. They broke up families. Your money got turned over. If you are a woman, you are at a special disadvantage, to put it delicately. It was not always as idealistic as you may hear. As this came out, the church ran away. They went to guiana because their time was up in San Francisco. The politicians so what they wanted and they took what they wanted. Then when the whole thing fell apart, you cant blame me. David gets into this big time in the book. It is a whole other side of the story. This forgetfulness and choosing what you want to remember. That is one of the worst parts about this experienced. There is no memorial in San Francisco to this thing. When the bodies were brought back, those that were not claimed are now in a corner of the oakland cemetery. What could be more distant, kind of disembodied, pulled away from the story than that . A lot of political figures are still hard at it. There are a lot of names that have gone through this story. In my mind, they have not accounted for it, to put it politely. The story continues to have fingers into the present. San francisco is in a lot of mble a lot of tumult right now. The dollar signs are bigger. Could Something Like this happen again . Could someday show up with an answer . Claims of future good things. Taken at face value but never examined. That is where i look for this story. The peoples temple itself, it is now u. S. Post office. It was a big, federal kind of story. The only congressman ever killed in the line of duty was leo ryan and jonestown. This stuff is still buzzing around in many different forms. That is my story. Thank you all for that description. We will continue our conversation up here a little bit more and then take questions. I am struck by this remarkable confluence of issues like slavery and poverty coming out of the powerful, tumultuous time of 1948 to 1978. Two years in california time is about 20 years somewhere else. The social changes that all of you lived through. Its manifest here on the tip of his peninsula. Why someone like harvey milk or george moscone. Coming from a very progressive tradition. And milks fighting tooth and nail, for a role in the governance in the city. All of this took place at the same time culminating in an opening for someone like jones to move in. What i am loving up the conversation so far. Is about the yearning for community from dislocated people. Eugene, i was struck by what you said. It was a candy store. You had a library, a pending press, food. I think some of those basic needs, and, john, in terms of what you said, wouldnt it a nice if kids growing up in the mission or really anywhere in the bay area didnt have to worry about those things . So in terms of how the peoples temple encompasses all those stories, the very personal as well as the very political is at the heart of what we are trying to present to people today. John, id like to come back to you in terms of the missing stories. They made their own Community Within those spaces, whether it was here or up in the redwoods or down and down in guyana. John a week in Redwood Valley. I am probably 13 years old. I saw jim jones, i didnt see him as a father. I just saw him as a man. We were a family. Two of my sons married to his daughters. I saw him behind the scenes a lot of times. I wasnt apprehensive about him. I talked to him on a daily basis. I was acclimated to it to where it was my lifestyle. A good friend of mine lives in atlanta. He grew up watching us. He joined the temple when he was 12 years old. He was a foster kid who came to Redwood Valley. He said, john, a lot of people for you guys were treated special. You guys were held in such a high regard. We were talking about our schedule. Monday morning started off very strictly. Go to school, door things as a regular student. I was a threestar sports star. I had practice after school. Come back on do more work and monday. Probably hang out with jimmy. Tuesdays, same thing. Go to the church. Study. See the teachers or whoever was there. We were very well educated. On wednesday night we had meetings. We had temple meetings that lasted, oh, god, late. After school on thursday. Thursday night games. Friday we would play games. Games, we were not supposed to go to these games all the times, but our parents made sure we had that experience. Get on the bus in Redwood Valley and come to San Francisco. Have a meeting friday night in San Francisco. After the meeting friday night in San Francisco get back on the , bus go to los angeles. Saturday morning, we all get off the bus. Play some basketball. Get something to eat. Services saturday, all Night Saturday with our friends in l. A. Get back on that bus and get back to Redwood Valley. About 3 00 in the morning on monday morning. That was our life. That is all i knew. It was normal to me. It served me well as a got older. Very disciplined but was also fun. You would not being beaten to do it. You doing it with hundreds of people your own age. They were your friends. So everything that you did was fun. It was fun to go to San Francisco and los angeles. See all these places. It is what we did. At the same time, it kept us out of trouble. We saw a different lifestyle. Some people thought we were being programmed and eat down at the same time. Not one on one per se. He had his indoctrination and meetings and whatnot. Im su