Or parts of institutions to challenge ourselves to be more rigorous in identifying the outcomes that we value and beginning to build up a body of work, measures of those outcomes that we can talk about over time. I think the holy grail in all of this is to be able to develop longitudinal systems of data about outcomes and tracking changes in individuals lives over time. And at the state level, there are several states well along in this project. I wish we were further along in the federal government. And i think theres an opportunity for not only institutions, but companies to develop tracking systems that would help institutions measure the process of the folks who participate. So you have, as i think many in the room know, some of your own scars in outcomes measurement. As i read in the the New York Times, you and i, we didnt talk about this at the time but u read in the the New York Times when you took your job president obama had in mind a College Ratings system pretty clearly in his head that he wanted you to do. You showed up and he said ted, i need you to do this for me. And you said i expect mr. President , im going to try. And then how many trips did it take to the white house to kind of talk him off of that to ultimately what you were able to accomplish . Well, so like all things, this was definitely a team sport and it was an evolution and a learning for a lot of people across government as we looked to build out a ratings system. And in the end i think that we all made the right decision to do a better thing. And we chose to enhance our College Score cord with new data and information on that score card that had been previously unavailable, including a data match between our data and inside federal student aid and inside the governments enrollment numbers and ipads to co combine that with irs information to give the first reliable portrait of income outcomes for graduates both at their three years out and at ten years out, which we hope give users a sense of trajectory. We want to improve on that by moving from the institutional level to the Program Level and well keep at it. What we essentially decided in the nugget of our decision was that rather than tell people what the government thought about institution xy and z which was the president s idea . Which was the original idea. This is why hes in politics and im not. Rather than tell people what the government thought, we would create a flexible tool where students, parents, families could ask the questions they wanted, that they valued and so students can now search by average income, they can search by the diversity of the student body, search by the size and shape of the institution, they can search by completion rate, they can search by net tuition, by Family Income which is another important advance to be able to ask the question, not just is this college expensive and look at the Sticker Price, but whats this College Going to cost for a family in my circumstance. And thats turned out to be rev la toir for many families as they compare the Sticker Price of wellendowed private institutions against struggling public institutions, for example. So long version, try to make it a little shorter, is that we believe the tool that we have put up is a tool that is flexible, that responds more to the expressed needs of students and their families, is a helping tool to counselors and others who are working on increasing College Going among first generation and lowincome students. And the other thing we did, which is probably longer term better benefit, is that we made the determination in the spirit of the president s directive that we be a very transparent administration. That we made all of the Data Available. So not only are the Data Available on spreadsheets but we created open apis. And as we speak, there are developers and entrepreneurs who are making use of the data we have provided to create tools for students and families and counselors. And we think that thats probably the long term best benefit right. Of that work especially as we continue to improve the data. And if youre an education president or zar and you had a compliant congress and all of the other federal agencies you could command, what other data would you get . To make the most perfect data system there. Private sector, public sector, critical. What other data sets would you like to see in there other time, if you could . We would love to see Social Security administration data. Weve bedwun to make crosswalks between data in the department of defense and the va with our federal student aid databases. The aim of that crosswalk is to make it possible for us theres a legislated student loan discount rate that active Duty Service Members can earn. And now rather than applying for that, were able to just draw across their Service Records and make the adjustment automatically. But we also want to be able to make those data about for example, Service Members experience, using department of defense gi bill money. We want to make that available as well. On the Social Security side, we announced last week that we had done a similar match with Social Security to identify americans who are totally and permanently disabled who still have student loans. And we found that there are about 385,000 americans who are totally and permanently disabled who have student loans. Theyre eligible to have those loans relieved. So even if we arent putting the data out, were working with our colleague agencies to create much, much better make government work much better. One more, josh, is the department of labor, is that whether its at the end of a credential program, a certificate program, an associates program, a bachelors program, a ph. D. Law degree, md, all of the Higher Education is preparing people for the world of work. I think if we were to have open access to all of that information we would be able to have a much clearer sense of the pathways that students actually take through their careers and where Higher Education in particular and an investment in Higher Education has a disproportionate positive impact in peoples trajectories. So now that were done walking out on a topic, lets go to a political third rail topic. Can we stay on the no. I could talk about hhs and the relationship of health outcome. Im going to grab the third rail. Well see how this goes. This is a me and you thing. I regulate capital for a living. Are we in an adversarial relationship . Where is our relationship . How are we doing in. I think were good. Are we okay . Maybe what im really asking is, you know, during the Obama Administration there was obviously a controversy if you were a higher ed investor and i can imagine any number of investors and managers and others fairly hard done by education, by the department of educations policies during this period. I heard secretary duncan talking in new york saying frankly if we could have done more, i wish we would have done more. He was completely unapologetic. If you want to aes relationship, pick the hardest topic. What do you say to folks who wonder what you did there and why you did it, and what should the lessons be to folks on my side of the relationship coming out of that . Yep. Couple of things. So secretary duncan says, and i have said on the record, secretary king as well, that we really are agnostic about organizational form, what we care about. Capital structure. You dont care. Dont care. What we care about are outcomes. Show me institutions that are working for students and im going to stand up and clap. Show me institutions that are screwing students over and im going to do everything in my power to change that. And i think that thats the situation that we found ourselves in. And hopefully we have sent powerful market signals to our colleagues across the higher ed sector that outcomes matter and that well all hold each other accountable for that. I think at an even deeper level, josh, its not antagonistic because, as u said a while ago, education is a long term play. Its a long term play from a policy point of view and in an investment point of view. In the end there is such a thing as gravity. And that gravity is all around student outcome. And working on improving Student Outcomes is good Investment Strategy and working on good Student Outcomes is a great regulatory strategy. So i think in the end they come together. I think what joins us along the journey is focus on data, transparency and information that feeds the how are you doing on the outcome side. I think that its quite important for us to have good information. Its quite important for investors to have good information about how understand cushions are doing. So my hope is that hour joint interest in improving and insuring high quality Student Outcomes for lowincome minority students will be best served by making more data more available more of the time so that we can, from our various vantage points, be making the right decisions to support the institutions that are doing the right thing. Theyre going to prosper. So having draped that third rail and not gotten entirely electrocuted, let me move to maybe another. Accreditation. Now were really out of time. Does it need to be no. We have four minutes and 32 seconds. Can we talk about accreditation . Can we do that . Yeah, sure. Does it need to be fixed . Is it broken. No. Did i go through those fast enough . So i will put my cards on the table. I am a former acreditor. I served for the western association of colleges and universities for i think six years. Ive seen accreditation from the point of view of the accreditor and ive certainly seen it from the point of view of the institutions being accredited and now we have a chance to lock at accreditation from the National Policy level. Im going to sound like a broken record and weve said this for the last several months. We need to focus accreditors more on Student Outcomes. For too long the process of accreditation has been measuring proxies for outcomes, whether those are the number of tenured faculty. In the old days when i was an accreditor it was counting library books. So your advice to them is the same as your advice to us. Expect us you can make us do what you want but them you cant entirely. Cant entirely. Ive learn a lot in my time in washington. The department of education authorizes, recognizes accreditors. Its not just the big name. Its the small beauty schools, cosmetology. We recognize the organizations that do that in collaboration with a committee that stands between us and the acreditors that is made up from nominees from the house, the senate and the executive branch. And so while ultimately we can make determinations we need to work through that process. That group meets twice a year, has quite a full docket. Weve got a docket coming up in june that will be interesting. But weve literally sent a message to the accrediting community about getting focused on Student Outcomes, on identifying for their portfolio of institutions, what they regard as minimal outcome standards and then Holding Institutions accountable to those standards over time. That will be one of the pieces of incomplete business that well leave. But we certainly hope to have work with some accreditors and convinced them to be more serious about that. Moving on to another topic, a big one, and in a concise way, student debt costs, et cetera, big complicated political challenging, free college, et cetera, its all in the air. Give us a couple bullets. Sure. Im going to do free and then im going to go to where we are now. So a lot of conversation about free college in the campaign. To be clear, free is good only if the quality you get is good. We always need to talk about quality when we talk about costs and debt. So costs are going up. The costs are going up most in public institutions. And thats driven in large part by pretty radical state disinvestment in Higher Education that began with the Great Depression when states needed to make very tough policy choices. But as the economy as come back, state investment continues to lag. What that does is it puts higher pressure on tuition costs and because of the increasing diversity of our College Going population, it is in fact forcing higher tuition payments on families who can least afford it. That moves into the debt. So how do you fill the gap. You borrow money. The good news is that for the majority of students who finish their degree, they leave with manageable debt, averages around 30,000 and are able to repay that. There are students who have problems, we need to work hard with them to address their student debt challenges. But mostly we need to go back to this issue of completion, get through, put them in a position to pay off their debt. And in our last couple of seconds, whats next for ted . This administration will come to an end . Can we ask . So first of all, there are 275 days left. I saw that on your iphone. I do have the app. 275 days left and weve got a lot to accomplish. So im basically youre on it. You and i both married women who are far smarter than we. We did. So im waiting for any instructions. Your orders . Yes. Excellent. I want to thank you again for your Public Service. Its been a pleasure. Thanks. [ applause ] well we have more president ial debates tonight on American History tv here on cspan 3. Beginning at 8 00 p. M. Eastern the first debate of the 2000 general election between Texas Governor george w. Bush and Vice President al gore. Then well show you the town hall debate from the 2000 president ial election. And later a 1996 debate between president clinton and the republican nominee, former senator bob dole. For campaign 2016, cspan continues on the road to the white house. We need serious leadership. This is not a reality tv show. Its as real as it gets. We will make America Great again. Ahead, live coverage of the president ial and Vice President ial debates on cspan, the skrrks span radio app and cspan. Org. Monday september 26 is the first president ial debate lye from the university in hempstead new york. And then on tuesday october 4th, Vice President ial candidates debate at Longwood University in farmville, virginia. And on sunday october 9th, Washington University in st. Louis hosts the second president ial debate. Leading up to the third and final debate taking place at the university of nevada, las vegas on october 19th. Live coverage of the president ial and Vice President ial debates on cspan. Listen live on the free cspan radio app or listen on demand at cspan. Org. Sunday night on q a there was an average, imagine, of one racial lynching a week in the south. And it was a brilliant psychological device to hold down a race. Because if you were black, youre afraid that this could happen to you. The author talks about his literary career, including his latest book the lynching, about the trial following the 1981 killing of 19yearold Michael Donald by the kkk in mobile, alabama. Michael is a teenager. Hes trained to become a bricklayer. Hes the youngest of seven children. Hes home with his mother in their house and his aunt asked him to go out and get a pack of cigarettes. Goes out, this old buick pulls up behind him, tiger noelles pulls out his pistol and orders him into the back seat of the car. He knows whats going to happen when he gets in the back seat of that car. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. Up next a conversation on the pros and cons of internet advertising from the annual Techcrunch Technology and innovation conference in brooklyn, new york. This is about 40 minutes. All right. Were going to do a little bit more audience participation before we started the interview. How many of you have downloaded and use an ad blocker. 40 of the room. Mostly the front part. It seems like people at least are expieosed to the technology. Im a journalist. I get paid mostly through advertising and wonder events like this. If ad block plus takes off, obviously it has taken off. If it continues to grow, am i going to be out of a job . No. I think what is potentially hurting is a Business Model that doesnt hurt and apps that clearly dont provide any value to the consumer is to me a failed Business Model, which is i think is the reason why this needs to evolve. And the interesting thing is that almost all of the people that install an ad blocker dont hate ads, theyre annoyed by the really intrusive ones. Thats why we started a program called acceptable ads, which basically means were helping publishers to show alternative less intrusive ads, specifically targeted at people who have opted out of traditional online ads. And what we found out is that fewer but better ads provide much better value. Were creating a winwin situation in which the user gets a much better experience at the same time publishers can make more money while still honoring user choice. Lets talk about the Acceptable Ads Program. Just to make sure i understood you, there are publishers now who make more money with acceptable ads than they were with the traditional banner ads before . Its important to realize there are a different segment of users, the regular users th