Elements in terms of being involved with foreign fighters. I do not. Who in the state does any of that . Obviously fsa is part of counterisis if thats our strategy, would obviously have to be involved in the foreign fighter and they would be on the front line of why are these people being recruited. Where does that connection happen. If youre the foreign fighter gi my task, my responsibility is the things i have been asked to do are to pursue a diplomatic strategy with our foreign partners, our Foreign Countries on foreign fighters. I do not engage directly with the syrian opposition. Ambassador rubenstein is our envoy for that. Certainly others in the state department are dealing with this issue, others in the pentagon in terms of the military, intelligence agencies. Why is it that isis is attracting foreign fighters versus foreign fighters coming to fsa, you know, al nusra front. Is it the jihadism . What is it . That you have seen. I think its partly the discussion i was having earlier. It is the perception that they are successful. Right. Its the perception that joining them is a way of trying to combat assad. In some cases the way they have marketed, if thats the right word, themselves as being a place where you can come and you can be involved in this adventure, and that is one of the perceptions. It is their declaration of a caliphate which has attracted people who misunderstand exactly what isil is doing and what this means. So these are some of the factors that have caused isil to be attract foreign fighters. I agree with you. I think thats right. I think success brings success. I have seen some of the isis propaganda and its powerful. It looks like if youre a young person, if youre in your teens and youre looking for something fun to do, they make it look fun, right . Come here and do whatever you want to do, be with a bunch of guys that are out pushing this idea of jihadism and the caliphate, and you can see that. And i think my concern, and youre not the guy to talk to about this evidently, but my concern is, you know, the message weve been sending for years about the Free Syrian Army is quite the opposite. These are the people that we actually want to be emboldened. These are the people we want to be part of a postassad syria. Instead the message we send, and we have a lot of members of congress that question that basically say theyre no different than isis which is actually offensive if you have met any of these folks. Youre going to have allegiances switch, but the other thing is if youre somebody looking to overthrow assad, what is attracting you to the fsa. Theres no nofly zone over their territories as of yet. Theres been a lot of talk that the United States is helping to train and equip but you really havent seen it. Now the discussion is in our newfound strategy that we may train a few thousand fighters over the next year. That would not attract anybody. I agree with you on that, and i hope im not going to go past my time, but i hope this administration really wrestles with the issue of syria and understands youre not going to defeat isis until you take care of the syria problem. It is the incubator of the problem. So with that, thank you for your testimony and ill yield back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. Grayson, for five minutes. Thank you. Mr. Warrick, is joining isis is crime under u. S. Law . Certainly giving Material Support to isis is a violation of federal statutes, yes. Is that true of both u. S. Citizens and nonu. S. Citizens . Well, i mean, the question of whether a foreign citizen violates foreign law no, u. S. Law. Oh, u. S. Law . We have been known to prosecute foreign nationals who are in the United States for violation of Material Support statutes, yes. All right. So lets be specific about this. Lets talk for instance about the 26 irish residents or residents of ireland who apparently have joined isis. What would happen if one of them traveled to the United States . Well, im not going to get into exact hypotheticals. I do want to say, however, that where somebody has been identified as a foreign fighter fighting for isil in syria and its possible to watch list such a person, theyre going to be in all likelihood on a nofly list or another list of the u. S. Government that will attract a great deal of attention before they are allowed to get on an airplane to the United States. Tell us regarding the nofly list, what would that mean . Theyd never be able to come to the United States, right . Well, they wouldnt be able to fly here. The nofly list obviously doesnt apply to other modes of transportation. However, i can tell you there are equivalent measures in place so somebody on the nofly list is almost certainly not going to be allowed entry into the United States if they come by cruise ship or if they fly to canada, for example, which they may not be able to do if theyre noflied for us, and they were to try, lets say, to come across the u. S. canadian border. What are the names of those lists . Im sorry . What are the names of the lists youre referring to, not nofly list but the no cross the border list . These are all systems managed by the Terror Screening Center which is an arm of the fbi but includes participation by dhs and others. Dhs, however, has the authority to make admission decisions when someone presents him or herself at a border or at an airport, and so we have the authority to refuse someone entry to the United States if theyre deemed inadmissible. There are specific grounds in the immigration and nationality act that allow us to say someone that is reasonably suspected to be a terrorist or to have given Material Support to terrorist groups, that that person can be denied entry into the United States, and i can assure you, congressman, we exercise that authority when its appropriate for us to do so. So regardless of whether in a country that requires a visa or not for nationals of that country and the United States, theyre simply not going to be let in, right . If they meet the standard of the immigration and nationality act, were going to comply with the law i assure you. By not letting them in, right . There are a host of footnotes and exceptions im not going to go into in open session but essentially, no, were not going to do that. Lets talk about the u. S. Citizens with u. S. Passports, reputed to be 130 of them. What do we know about them . You should ask that question of the fbi but when they give numbers, which i would describe only as greater than 100, the numbers that you see on this chart are private groups estimates. So the fbi is the better source for actual statistics. In those cases what were talking about are identities where the name of the person is known and certain other information that allows us to be reasonably precise as to who it is. We at least have in mind when a decision, for instance, on someone being on a nofly list is made. Or, for instance, when they come back. When they come back, if theyre identified as a foreign fighter for isis according to what you said earlier, they have committed a crime and they can be arrested upon entry, correct . Thats correct. And, in fact, that has happened, correct . Yes, it has. All right. And then what happens after that . Theyre put in prison, right . First of all, when theyre referred to the fbi for further investigation and prosecution, that actually is outside of dhs purview and into the fbis purview. If you want to start tracking people from that point forward, i would refer you to the fbi. And then to the department of justice. But youre familiar with the procedures, right . Im familiar with the procedures, yes. And you work with the fbi to get that done, right . Yes, we work very closely with the fbi and our partners in the intelligence community. Hearing all that i guess we can sleep a little more soundly now, right . Well, sir, yes, you can. However, as we always tell everyone, prunes and vil lens s vigilance is something thats the responsibility of all of us. I yield back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Perry. Thank you for your time. Ambassador, a few months ago taxpayers were asked to spend a couple hundred Million Dollars or several hundred Million Dollars for the training and i guess some equipping of fsa fighters. Can you give me and us any update on were quickly approaching the time when that proviso was to expire. Whats our investment gleaned us at this point . Again, thats an area, and there was a previous line of questioning in the same direction. I am not the person who deals with the Free Syrian Army or the syrian opposition. Thats really beyond my responsibilities and my mandate at the state department. All right. Thats unfortunate. Its very frustrating for us. You come here. We have questions that we have to respond to our constituents, and either you dont have or wont give the answers, and so we just walk away with nothing. So its very frustrating. I mean, you have no indication whatsoever. Like youre not even aware youre aware the program is happening and thats your complete knowledge of it, like mine . Again, i am not an authoritative spokesperson what do you know . Do you know anything . Congressman, i have testified here for the better part of two hours about what i am trying to do, leading an effort to deal with foreign fighters, about our engagement with our partners, about the different approaches were taking with those partners. Again, im not responsible for our overall syria policy or our relations with the syrian opposition. My understanding is that you have a hearing scheduled in the reasonably near future with someone who will be able to address those issues but if there are specific questions you want addressed, im confident that we will find someone at the state department who can provide you listen, i can appreciate that, youve got a long record of service and thank you very much for that, but you must understand when you come to these things as a representative of the department of state, you should have a modicum of information regarding many subjects, specifically the one that were talking about. As a member of congress when i go out to a town hall meeting, i cant say, look, im not on appropriations. Its not my responsibility. Ill see you later. My constituents dont accept that and with all due respect, i dont feel like your answer is acceptable at this time. But with that having been said, if you could give me the unclassified version of a longterm unclassified of a longterm strategy regarding a peaceful transition in syria. Look, we got a couple minutes here, but do the best you can. Give me the high points. I mean, syria doesnt like us turkey doesnt like assad so theyre not helping us with isis. We dont like assad or isis but weve picked isis as the more problematic one of the two at this time, but paint some picture of where were going because we just spent 500 million for Free Syrian Army fighters which you can provide no answers on and the American People are supposed to continue to support the administration in some policy. Im asking what the heck it is. Congressman, i was asked to come up and testify and the subject was isis and the threat from foreign fighters. That is what i have tried to do to the best of my ability. I was not asked to be a witness on our broader syria policy or to be prepared to discuss the future of syria. I have said that the essentials of our policy are to try to have a political settlement inside syria that enables the people of syria to have a democratic future without assad, that enables them to be free from terrorist threats, from terrorist organizations as well. I really feel that if you want to delve more deeply into our syria policy, then someone who can be an authoritative spokesman on our policy on syria should be asked to come and testify. I appreciate that. Those are great platitudes that all americans can agree with and probably all people around the world can agree with. Let me ask you this then. The Khorasan Group. Are you familiar . Can i ask questions about that . I am familiar with the Khorasan Group. Some of the questions may involved classified answers but id be happy to try to answer your questions, sir. They are described as seasoned al qaeda operatives in syria. Would you agree with that . Yes, i would. So when al qaeda seasoned al qaeda operatives. So when the president told us a couple years ago that and i dont remember the exact verbiage but it was something similar to al qaeda is decimated and on the run. Would that comport with the success of the Khorasan Group in syria or would that be con ter vening . What i would say is that my understanding of what the president meant was al qaeda as an organization had been severely damaged. That did not mean that al qaeda and all the individual elements of al qaeda had been defeated. We see al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, and this group of fighters who have gone to syria coming in some respects from pakistan and afghanistan from core al qaeda have tried to create space to operate in syrian territory. So could i say it was a little true and maybe a little deceptive . Or untrue . Whatever you want to call it. It wasnt completely factual. I dont share your views, congressman. I appreciate that. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Chair recognizes the gentleman from illinois, mr. Snyder. Thank you, mr. Chair, and again i want to thank the witnesses for joining us today to specifically talk about the threat of foreign fighters going into syria visavis isis. Looking at the numbers that were presented to us and the source or location of where many of the fiders are coming from, of the 16,000, roughly 5,000 are coming from north africa as mentioned earlier. About another 2,500 from europe, 40 of those from france. And then from the gulf states you have another 4,000 roughly. So my general question, and ill ask a couple questions and leave you to answer. My general question is are there any Common Threads attracting these fighters from these different regions . Are there specific Regional Trends that draw those fighters and how do we deal with that . Those are my general questions. Ambassador, you mentioned peter kn newman who released a study in the spring and identified a muss lick clai muslim cleric with a large following. Not necessarily sending people to fight but preaching in a way that inspires those folks to fight. What are we doing specifically about folks like that, not just in the United States but globally with specific concern of people preaching from the United States . With that ill leave it to the witnesses. Just to address briefly your question about Regional Trends. There are differences. I think the one common theme is the attraction of foreign fighters to the conflict in syria. The idea that sunni muslims are being attacked and need to be defended. This is a fairly common theme throughout the conversations i have had with our foreign partners. As to the reasons, the primary reason that foreign fighters are attracted to the conflict, but there are variations on this theme. In the western balkans i have had conversations with officials there who have pointed to the fact that the foreign fighters from their country are coming from the poorest areas and that their foreign fighters from those countries are being told if you go to syrian, you will get paid, you will have a vob, you will have status. The ideological element is less important. Partners in eastsoutheast asia motivation seems to be to get training and skills to be brought back to the home country to be potentially used in terrorist activities in the home country. Not so much an ideological motivation. There are regional variations and individual variations. The most important motivation is the conflict in syria. The idea we need to defend our muslim brothers, our sunni muslim brothers in syria. If i can, the large number coming from france, almost 1,000 fighters from france, are those residents or citizens of france who have connections to tunisia or morocco or libya or are they disconnected . Many of them are from north africa originally, but many of them are second or third generation. These are not necessarily first generation immigrants. And that raises another kind of regional variation. Certainly the problem of the inability of some of our European Partners to integrate their immigrant populations into their societies has left a degree of alienation that has made some of these people susceptible to the kind of propaganda that isil is putting out. Theres also another element here, sir, which i think cant be totally neglected. I believe, and its hard to come up with specific evidence of this, that there are some foreign fighters who are simply attracted to the violence that is taking place. There was a mention of a man alleged to have committed the killings at the Jewish Museum in brussels. He has a very deep criminal background. I think theres an element in some of the attraction of foreign fighters. It is this attraction to violence itself. And in the last minute as far as some of the preachers, the study put out by mr. Neuman and two others said specifically identified two preachers globally who were having a disproportionate influence on promoting fighters going into syria. I dont know whether my colleague wants to address that. The state department doesnt do activities inside the United States of this nature. Mr. Warrick. Im not the right person to answer that question. So im not going to obviously address the specifics of any individual case, but i do want to make the point that in all the work that we do in community outreach, working with federal, state, and local law enforcement, were very mindful of the distinction between those who are exercising their free speech rights and those who are to the contrary urging people to carry out acts of violence. The former is a protected constitutional right and the latter is a crime. And we distinguish in all that we do carefully between those two characteristics. So im not going to assess the statements of any individual religious leaders from the table here today other than just to a