And this has been alluded to a little bit weather today too, theres been some discussion about what are the goals attached. One of the things i think that separates us here, which makes it kind of hard is that there are folks who look at this as an exercise to raise revenue, its something the president wants to do, a lot of us believe the best way to get revenue is through greater growth. And that tax reform the goal of tax reform ought to be how do we generate Economic Growth in the economy. Which addresses a lot of those income disparity issues that were mentioned earlier as well. Speak a little bit about growth as an objective, and how you think that plays into the deliberations that should occur here. Growth, obviously, everybody wants growth. But i remember russell long, who is chairman of this committee for 16, 17 years. And one meeting going, ive been here for 30 years. Three times we have put the investment tax credit in in tax reform. Three times weve taken it out in tax reform. Now, you tell me when its reformed and when does it help to work the economy. I think a lot of us dont know exactly what works. I do know there are all kinds of industries that want things who say this will work, but i dont think were necessarily smart enough to know. Youve talked a lot about growth tell me your views on that . I think you can have growth and equity. I think growth you get in part through the lower rates. But also in part from clearing out the code of all of this underbrush that prevents the economy from growing, because it subsidizes one segment as opposed to another. I think that if youre going to deal with the equity question i think the way to do that is with the earned income tax credit i think the president s proposal on second earner credit is pretty interesting. You can do things in the code that are structural, that are not special interest, that will allow you to deal with equity at the same time, youre lowering the overall rate. And to me thats the key. Thank you mr. Chairman, senator bradley, youre a credit to basketball players everywhere. Its a big compliment from you, senator. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you both for being here today with us providing us insight. I will tell you that sitting here is a relatively new senator. Your insight has been invaluable to all of us and just for point of reference, this is treasury two, and this is treasury one. During the years that you guy ss have found the will to agree on these proposals. How do we find a Common Ground when finding a series of partners toward real tax reform appears to be missing and the seriousness of the presentations and the proposals number one. And the second part of that is when we heard from both our chairman senator hatch and senator thune just talked about revenue neutral position. When you start the conversation as well, talking about achieving several hundred billion dollars more of revenue versus a position of neutrality. How do we bridge that gap. I dont think bill and i can tell you how to bridge that gap. If the positions are irrevocable, revenue, no revenue cannot be bridged opinion. I agree. If you can bridge that, then spend some time doing Something Else i think however, that the question is, can you put together a small group of people on this committee that have sufficient clout within the committee as bob said earlier, that you can actually spend the time to come up with something, that was pretty good . I mean you know, more taxes. You have to figure out which taxes, the tradeoffs that i offered with the consumption tax versus cutting the Social Security and employment taxes. Thats not something were going to decide thats something you have to decide. And as i said earlier, all i know is being in that room with 7 people and youre making votes and doing things, and affecting this part of the economy, its a lot of fun. If you are just coming in and having your two sides make your statements i cant be too much fun. Cant be too much fun is correct. Looking for other things to do with our time. I thought about playing basketball but im too short. Good news is, senator hatch on the other hand has taken a fairly inventive and creative approach to making sure we find some Common Groundworking across the aisle and looking for sweet spots. Hes put together some working groups, i think may be beneficial goingforward. One of the areas i have great passion and interest is the entrepreneur for the last 15 years. Why simplification for the tax code benefits all . You said that tax loopholes are ways for politicians to spend money without going through the appropriations process. The more opportunities that politicians have to spend money without going through the appropriations process, the more complicated and difficult the tax code comes. When i started my business, i didnt think about loopholes. I thought about creating jobs and making a profit changing the lives of family members and employees. I would love to hear you chat just a little bit about the notion of simplification, either of you gentlemen talked about the simplification. And the natural outcome to find money, in its best place through the private sector. You know, when i was speaking about this every day for 40 years. I went on the David Letterman show thats when he was late late. And i took out a card and said, you ought to be able to do your income tax on this card. Now, thats not quite true but we do know the vast number of americans have income from wages, interest or dividends. Guess who has all that information other than the individuals . The irs the irs for the bulk of americans do the return based on that send it to the people, they can sign it or say no i want another accountant to do it that would be a dramatic simplification. In 1986 i had the younger person on the joint Tax Committee who was gone i cant remember who it was now, give me a ballpark estimate. Not spend time what you could do with a flat tax, which is certainly simple. And he said at that time, it took him a few days. You get a flat tax 11 raising the same amount of money were raising, that meant a widow would pay 1100 in taxes. So i said, what about if you exempt all families for 430,000. Exempt them . Came back a couple days he says, 19 . But its slightly tilts toward the rich. And i was curious about slightly, he said, you realize that when youre going to get rid of every deduction that mankind conceivably has, youre mainly talking about people with the rich, not the poor. Sally who works at the mill who fills out a 1040 ez is not adversely affected. He said, but i think if 19 would be the norm you could keep the same progress, and do it around 17 on the low end, 20 middle and around 23 on the top. This was the top of the head thought. Its worth running if you want to see what you could do, and then senator you have got a simple tax. How much did you earn . Youre in the 20 tax bracket, you dont need any deductions, thats simple. Thats interesting. Thank you. Thank you senator. Senator white, by the way, weve had over 30 hearings on this over the last four years. Before you i want to tell one quick story about bill its cute. Signing ceremony is going to be on a wednesday. Bill is in portland at a noontime luncheon and fundraiser for a democratic candidate for governor youre going to catch the plane back for the signing ceremony. My Campaign Manager is a tough woman. Youre up for an election this year, you wont get back. Bill was going, well, portland is socked in, you cant get a plane out in the afternoon, you call seattle can i get a plane out to seattle . No. A charter plane . Nothings flying out. So and i was having a press conference the next day at 7 30, and the president was going to call me after he finished signing. We have a press Conference Tomorrow morning if youd like to come. He said knowing to get out, early the next morning he calls my hotel and says where is that press conference. And he comes and the president talks to me, and i said the local Network Affiliates are there, and the president talks to me, and i chat a bit. Bill bradleys here, you know how valuable he was for us on this, and i wonder if you could say a few words to him. The things that irritate me. He makes National Television from appearing on the local affiliate in portland and i dont get covered nationwide. The morell vant point is, it was because of my respect for bob pacwood that i decided to join him in the middle of my campaign. I think thats probably not happened a lot. Oh, that was well done. I have a lot of respect for both of you, youve been both great senators, and youve both done a lot for this country. And were very proud senator widen has im going to be brief, and thank you both for that simplicity. Discussion. I thought for a long time that this insanely complicated tax code plays right into the hands of the special interests and the lobbyists. And its going to be even more challenging today than it was in 86. We would be talking about guchy gulch, there were these wonderful descriptions about the lobbyists who would wait in line outside the weighs and means room for a phone booth. Well, today a lobbyist is going to sit in the back of the room and set in motion a tweet that is in effect probably going to go to millions. Maybe theyre going to be able to tweet to millions directly from the back of the room. Simplicity is hugely important. I think theres some contenders for how to do it. Senator bradley mentioned with respect to the information that the irs in effect has in giving the citizen an option of in effect having the irs mail something, it would be an option. The postcard concept in effect, you can almost put a tax return on the back of a w2. And that is something worth exploring. Im also interested in looking well be following up with two of you on the idea that if you tripled the standard deduction. And a number of senators of both Political Parties are interested in a significant increase in the standard deduction, you dont have so many people itemize. Thats another possibility. But just know were going to follow up with you on the simplicity. I want to wrap up with one last question. And that is is there one thing you regret about what happened in 86 . And you would council us in terms of what to do for the future . In other words, you know, its always easy to kind of think about whats possible today in the abstract. You two went through it. Anything you regret and you would like us to change . I know that one thing i regret about 86 and i was just a junior congressperson, is senator bradleys right when he says no Current Congress can permanently bind a future congress from unraveling it, but you could make it really hard. I mean, you can put people through multiple votes and the like, i can think of some things, you two went through it anything you regret . One thing that you would tell us to be careful about . I regret the odious deal i had to make, it was totally unjustified, no other business got, but i needed their votes on the floor. What theyen watted didnt cost very much money. And the iras were 24 billion. Do i wish i didnt have to put that in . Youre right thats one of the decisions you make on the spur of the moment. I made it the night we were doing the final markup. I didnt bounce it off my group of six because i knew they would vote against it. I would rather just put it in mad rather than have them think i double crossed them. Even in this world of great equality among senators, among the group of seven that senator pacwood talked about there was still the chairmans prerogative, and i think thats what that was nobody questioned that, because ive been through the whole process. Do i regret anything . I regret the bill lasted a short period of time. It was a humbling experience. Sand castles at the edge of the ocean, and only a commitment from members of this committee and from president s, succeeding president s, president clinton had a totally different idea of taxes. He would like to spend through the tax code, and, therefore, that helped unravel the differential Capital Gains came back we no longer treated capital and labor the same, which is what we did, the rate went up to 39, there were infin at numbers of hiding places for little provisions. My favorite being the one that says, if you rent your house for two weeks you pay no tax on that income. There was once a senator from georgia on this committee who had a lot of friends who had the masters golf tournament, big houses around the masters golf tournament, these things happen, right . But you i dont regret that that was before my time. You do have to find some way i regret it didnt last. Thats what i say. Mr. Chairman . Thank you. You have one of your top staffers who are based on at least one i know, who was switching at the time. Do you care to introduce . Bill deefen ndiefenderfer stand up. He was the chief of staff at the time i often said that bill wasnt our bill, it was my bill he was critical in this and especially critical in dealing with the administration and dick durbin, would not have passed but for him. I agree with that. Still legendary. I want to thank both of you, this means a lot to me personally, ive admired you for a long time. As legislators as people who really care for people and who both are extremely intelligent. So this has meant a lot to me, and i appreciate it, and with that, well recess until further notice. Thank you. Coming up live on cspan at 6 30 eastern a conversation on human rights with sarah seawall, the state departments undersecretary for human rights, shell discuss the work being done by the atrocities board which was created in 2012 too respond to and prevent again side and other Human Rights Violations around the worlds. Its hosted by the council on foreign relations. Tonight on American History tv programs on the 50th anniversary of the selma march. At 8 00 p. M. Selma 50th anniversary Anniversary Commemoration ceremony, with president obama and one of the participants in that march congressman john lewis. At 9 10 p. M. Abc news footage of march 25th 1965 Voting Rights rally in montgomery alabama. After that, president johnsons address to congress on Voting Rights, then the selma 50th anniversary service. All of this am coulding up tonight on cspan 3. In february, two House Foreign Affairs subcommittees held a joint where we aring on syrias humanitarian crisis. They heard from state department and usa idea officials about how its tracked so it ends up in the right hands. With all due apologies to the members who are not here yet, im going to start because pretty soon well be going back into the session, and be voting. Thank you very much, and i know that the members will be coming right quit and when they come here i will recognize their them for their Opening Statements. So the joint subcommittees will come to order. After recognizing myself chairman smith Ranking Members deutsch and bass as soon as they come for five minutes each. I will recognize any members for one minute. We will hear from our witnesses, and without objection, the witnesses prepared statements will be made a part of the record, and members may have five days in which to insert statements and questions for the record subject to the length limitation and remarks. Our thoughts and prayers are with Kayla Mueller in this most trying of times, she was taken hostage while doing humanitarian work in syria, which is the subject of our hearing, helping those who are in such dire need of her health, and all of america mourns her loss and the familys loss. The terrorists have proven time and again that they have no respect for human rights that is why we must redouble our efforts to defeat this scurge. Kaylas legacy will be the work she had done to alleviate the suffering to a countless many in syria and the world. Its important that our government will continue to respond to this humanitarian crisis, but also that we will make the respect for human rights across the globe a priority and not just an after thought. And with that, the chair now recognizes herself for five minutes. Next month will mark the fourth anniversary since the starts of the syrian conflict there are no signs that the crisis will abate any time soon. Assad has demonstrated no remorse, and indeed his intransigents has only hardened as he maintains his grasp on power, and the enclaves of syria, thanks to the support from iran and the United Statess unwillingness to engage isil and assad in a comprehensive strategy. They have managed to rest control of other large areas of syria, and they too have no intention of giving up the territory they have claimed since president obama announced strikes against syria last september, isil has gained more territory, and that leaves little territory for those syrians who wish to flee the fighting and violence. It isnt just limited to syria and iraq. Jordan and other neighboring countries have been forced to bear the brunt of a massive influx of refugees fleeing the fighting, and thats tested the limits of their already strained capabilities. Last congress, the Ranking Member ted deutsch and i con vined four hearings on the humanitarian situation in syria. We were pleased to join with congressman smith and basss subcommittee, in an effort to shine a light on this aspect of the conflict that gets ignored. When we held our first subcommittee hearing on the situation. In syria. 80,000 syrians had been killed and 1. 5 Million People had been displaced. Less than two years later those numbers have swelled over 200,000 have been killed 3 million have fled, and now more than half of syrias population is in dire need of humanitarian assistance. The u. S. Has been the largest provider of humanitarian assistance in response to the crisis, providing much needed aid to syria, iraq jordan and other countries. We spent over 3 billion since the start of the conflict and the president s budget request released last week, is seeking an additional 1. 6 billion to address the humanitarian needs in syria and in iraq. While some of this goes directly to the neighboring countries that host refugees and directly to the ngos, the vast majority of our funding for syria support multilateral initiatives through the United Nations. I worry some of these systems would provide that goes to the u. N. And it