broad question of john and then for katie and steve. john, you found a great deal of post-millennial religious reference in the writings of unionists and pre-millennial religious references in the writing of confederates, and i was wondering about the relative prevalence and frequency of religious references on the two sides, if there's any difference, or if these images are equally evident for unionists and confederates, and i also wondered about women and men, if there is any sort of difference in their propensity to make such references. the question that dovetails out of that has to do with religion in the lives of your two subjects, who we heard a little bit about early in his martyrdom, but religion and his piety.u of let's start with john. john: thank you for that. by the 1850's and 1860's, middle-class women are assumed to be more moral and religious on either side of the mason-dixon line, so one would anticipate and certainly find in these diaries that women refer to god and prayer rather more than men, particularly west point graduates, etc. and there is a great deal of resignation toward the vicissitudes of childbirth, etc. "if i survive this is in god's hands,", let alone war. what is missing in this paper are the northern democrats. if it is useful to think in a slightly less rushed way -- i should mention that i am a california yankee and speak like a micromachines salesman accordingly. post mills are very optimistic about changing the world. they are either pessimistic or realistic. for example, what is missing here is george mcclellan. northern evangelicals concerned with the status quo. mcclellan at the same time as jackson is fighting to liberate his valley, is lecturing president lincoln on fighting a just and christian war with limited means, limited aid. this this paper was very much focused on pre-mill civilians and postma occupiers. >> thanks very much. kathryn: as many of you may know, early was not particularly religious, but religion was certainly an important cultural context of this time, and i think he perceived the fact that he was out of step with the prevailing culture in this way. i think most famous story of early going to church was during the shenandoah valley campaign, . he went with some of his staff. this account was published in a newspaper that one of early's friends in canada brought to his attention. early learned about the fact that this had been printed in the newspaper when he was in canada, so in that sad state we were talking about. so he is reading this article with his friend, and it's giving these anecdotes about him going to church. he went to church with staff officers, and the preacher is giving this fiery sermon. you know, what will you do when the end times come? what will you do? he kept repeating the question . early said to one of his staff offices, i'd conscript every damned one of them. i hope i can say that on c-span. >> you said it. it's out there. kathryn: i've said it could it is printed in the paper. someone asked if he actually said this, and he said unfortunately he did, but why did the guy have to go and say it to the newspaper? he was not a very religious man, and at the time, as he explained to his friend, he was very concerned about having enough troops in the valley. that was a real concern and problem he was contending with, but he was embarrassed when popular attention was called to that aspect. stephen: this is a great thread /. i had not thought about all the way through. i can get through this and not use bad words for c-span. it is relevant, you'll see. religion comes up in the chapter on the valley campaign in taylor 's memoir. always in contrast with jackson. there's an anecdote that taylor's louisiana brigade, louisiana tigers who were some of the best fighters jackson had in the valley, are sort of carousing and whistling and singing, and taylor records that jackson said, thoughtless fellows for such work. taylor is very proud that these catholics from louisiana turned out to be so ferocious in battle. in the course of one battle narrative, taylor records that he starts cussing at his soldiers to get them to go, and then he records jackson tune to him and saying to taylor, i fear you are a very wicked fellow. this comes up -- it's quite clear that taylor plays this up to call attention to the contrast between jackson's scottish presbyterianism and his own much more worldly cosmopolitan catholic connection with these louisiana soldiers . there is also a very moving moment where somebody has died -- i believe it is taylor's own quartermaster, and taylor says, i did the best i could to recite the burial service from memory. quite clearly, he has, i'm guessing, anglican affiliations, but they are not part of the narrative structure at all of his memoir. >> thank you so much. we are eager to hear from you. we have microphones for those who have questions. this is being recorded for tv. did you want to get us started? >> i kind of had two questions. we had a speaker last week who was speaking about the winchester gun and the repeating rifle, and she made a statement that the repeating rifle was not used in the civil war. it was only years afterward against the native americans. the other question was that last week, we had a civil war roundtable. the person working to start the memorial to the national park -- it is a brand-new national park -- and he described how early's men walked barefoot up to where the union troops were sleeping. no canteens, nothing coul nothing. then, when they won that battle, they did go on a rampage, but it was because they had no shoes, no water, because nothing was allowed to make any noise because they attacked the union forces in their beds at 4:00 in the morning. when he was trying to get them to defend themselves later in the day, they were trying to eat and to clothe themselves. >> thank you. some questions about early's army and technology. kathryn: repeaters were used in the civil war. there was a variety of different models. i don't think they played a significant role, so perhaps that's what she was getting at. they became more significant in the postwar era, in the indian campaigns, but speaking to early's troops, indeed, they were severely deprived, so i had mentioned early's strategy when he had invaded the north. beyond retaliation, because there was a real vengeance streak running through him, but beyond retaliation, he was also ordering that these northern towns deliver goods to districts because his troops were suffering from serious ones. halt occurredl with the surprise attack in the ma men had been asked to leave anything that would rattle so they would not wake the sleeping federals. they achieved this wonderful success in their initial surprise, but indeed, when they saw some of the material they were lacking, they didn't cause -- they did's the plunder and take some of that. in some humanitarian sense, it is difficult to fall them for that. this is where the controversy arrives. the soldier are quoted in my talk really captures the feeling in a sustained way, which is whose fault is it when the troops are not being well supplied for? certainly, there's larger issues at work, and if you are not going to stop to plunder in battle, the tension will be released somewhere else, so they saw goods they needed and took those goods. and they cannot be reformed. and they could not be gotten back into line at the time. john: i think with the author might've been alluding to is that the winchester rifle specifically was not used during the civil war years as opposed to the spencer and henry rifles. elizabeth: i might note that her book addresses the theme of how soldiers on both sides cope with deprivation, exposure, hunger, and so on, and devised as she puts his self-care regimens to do so. if you like to learn more about that, i recommend that book. other questions from the audience? a microphone is coming your way. >> my question is for dr. matsui, / . some of the stories referred to religious rights, and i'm curious if a large number of reference in the confederate military press -- you detail a number of references and personal letters, but i'm curious if they also occurred in 1863 and 1864 in the larger public style. john: certainly. i think you might be in some ways pre-favoring the lost cause narrative. certainly in 1963, in 1863, 1864, 1865 in the valley, there is a sense of resignation. many valley residents were prounion or conditional yunis. unionists. there's a sense of holding on until some sort of deus ex machina, god delivers a miracle, a second jackson, which early might have been hoping to be, etc. again, the sense of holding on and that creeping dread of is not a matter of god is testing our faith but rather god is judging. elizabeth: thank you. yes, sir. >> kind of piggybacking on that, towards the end of the war within the valley itself, is it known from research, was there any specific religious sect that was maybe giving up more or earlier than another one? was it just a combining of the war going to end? john: that's an excellent question. i will take it for now. you just gave me and i saw avenue for research. -- and next avenue for research. the fairest thing i think i can say off the top of my head would be to divide the free will versus calvinistic. i would look at the presbyterian and the baptist as being calvinistic in that sense as opposed to, i don't know, methodists and episcopalians, emphasizeing human agency. i will certainly be looking in archives for that. elizabeth: that is a great question. other questions? >> when you talk about jubal early's ransom campaign in the northern states, were there any southern or strong southern loyalties in states like maryland, and how did this ransom campaign affect their loyalties? john: that's an interesting question. there were marylanders who had pro-confederate sympathies. one of the interesting things is that after they had shelled washington and were withdrawing, there was -- i am blanking on which town it was, but there was a town in maryland they went to. i cannot think of the name of this? i need some more coffee. in any case, they were marylanders within early's ranks that refused to bring the town and instead argued for some negotiation and coming down on the price of the ransom. i guess what i'm saying is there were feelings on both sides. certainly, marylanders were not happy, but some did have sympathies with the confederates. the same was true when it came to confederate marylanders who were fully dedicated to the confederate cause. even they had to draw a line and say they did not want to participate in burning maryland. elizabeth: thank you. other questions? veryofessor matsui, in a brief passage, you talk about the intermixing of the union soldiers occupying -- i believe it was winchester, and their dalliance with some of the negro women. did any of this continue, or were there interracial marriages, or was it just a quickie for the time? john: the could can't to is i don't know. i think one element is the issue of keeping occupation forces in winchester, which remained occupied for much of the rest of the war. part of the problem are my sources tend to taper off in 1863, 1864, particularly in winchester, so i cannot reliably name sources. partially because one family flees, runs the two lexington where they think they will be safe. certainly worth looking into further. elizabeth: one might observe that interracial the nature of those interactions would look very different from the eyes of the various groups that you have in your frame. what might look like a dalliance in the eyes of a disapproving confederate might be experienced as coercion on the part of an enslaved woman and multiply out infinitely the perspectives that represented, andces o that's why the sort of cross-referencing of sources is so important. that's why we feel cross-referencing is essential. >> you referenced hunters leaving lexington. had he taken lynchburg, was his plan to come here? rhetoricalat was comment that if they saw the two great seats of iniquity, but you're right -- the goal was lynchburg, not charlottesville. that was just a rhetorical term. i some had he taken lynchburg, his goal would have been to join grant in front of petersburg. john: but if sheridan does not replace him, then he is coming right through here, right down west main street in march. who knows? you may have. elizabeth: other questions? people areone many thinking. i'm curious about a theme that was mentioned. we have at the table a great deal of collective knowledge about civil war memoirs as a genre. you mentioned nostalgia as a feature. i'm curious about where taylor's memoir falls on the nostalgia spectrum. or whereven to it evidence and post factor accounts of war in the valley? a great question and i think katie's point is one to keep in mind, which is this wave of memoir writing goes from one what to the next. 1886 to lawrence chamberlain's passing of the army in 1915. world war i has begun, so this is a phenomenon in military history. i would say that taylor definitely falls more toward the nostalgia and then early does, but taylor's postwar experience is very interesting. -- first thing he does there's the surrender at appomattox and then johnson in north carolina, and then finally taylor surrendering to can be in alabama. the first thing that taylor does, and this is not in self interest, because he puts himself in danger is he immediately goes during that summer to washington and seeks audience with thaddeus stevens, charles sumner, ulysses s. grant, to try to win the release of jefferson davis. he gets into that campaign very early, and he then becomes quite outspoken about the bitter aspects of reconstruction. that that said, your kind of -- you are kind of getting a mixed cocktail with him at the end, which is some real bile about reconstruction, but also, these harkening back to phases of southern life now passed away. his final paragraph -- i don't need to tell any of the students in the audience, always read that final paragraph if you don't read the rest of the book. his final paragraph is lyrical evocation of something he names tradition that is streaming down to us like light from the stars. it is just absolutely dazzling, but it is kind of -- you could sort of say the apotheosis of the world lost, not just the cause lost, but all culture. he is very much about that. elizabeth: nostalgia for early? i will say something briefly just to corroborate that i want to take that in a different direction. certainly, early was vehemently opposed to reconstruction. i think there is a strain of nostalgia in that, but one of the things i wanted to call our attention to is the word nostalgia had a different meaning to contemporaries at the time. nostalgia was a medical diagnosis of mental health at the time. it was believed and diagnosed frequently, at least in the union medical records, which we have much more in abundance at this point. doctors would diagnose soldiers with nostalgia, which was fatal homesickness. this is a very random response, so when you ask this question, and maybe think about for these memoirs, writing their memoirs as a way to process and move on in return to being productive citizens. early is rehabilitating himself in a personal way, for himself. that is what that means. elizabeth: yeah, that is a very helpful way to think about nostalgia. stephen: that is what the word means. home ache. elizabeth: other questions? >> thank you. valley civilians in the -- is there any record of the civilians in the valley postwar in this time of lost causes and nostalgia? did they have any unique reactions because of their unique culture to the postwar reconstruction, unique from the rest of the south? kathryn: well, i mean, one thing i would say to that as i do believe that the ladies memorial association in the shenandoah valley -- and i'm sure dr. jane could speak more to this than i can, but i think they were among the first and the most kind of zealous to begin to reenter the confederate dead. i mention this briefly, because this comes from her research that with federal efforts to build a national military cemetery, these beautifully orderly places for bodies, but confederate bodies were being neglected, and women memorial associations took it upon themselves to have these bodies dug up, brought to their own military cemeteries, and properly mourned and celebrated. i think that role of ladies memorial associations was absolutely fundamental to confederate ex interpretation of history that really ran through the whole postwar period. john: i think aside from winchester, it would be interesting to look at lexington. both lee and jackson are very in lexington, so how early does lexington become a mecca for the lost cause? my own personal story is the first weekend i moved to lexington, was walking through and a car pulls up to me, and the window rolls down and i hear a southern drawl asking me where lee chapel is. again, the question is how early does that start? stephen: i have no statistics to back this up, but i would say that civil war memory in the valley is much like civil war memory along the path of sherman's march in that sheridan is still reviled and still invoked and still named as sherman is still invoked and reviled. i just spent this week in jackson, mississippi there also. i'm not sure that's quantifiable, but as you move through the landscape of the united states now and where you are likely to hear references to the war and what kind of references they are likely to be, sheridan in the valley is still live wire, especially for older people. >> in terms of that and in terms of the beloved, is it really true that jubal had framed on the wall the dismissal letter from robert e lee and what does that mean? kathryn: action don't know. knows.r if gary it was an appendix in his memoir. his friends, like charles button, who i mentioned, published it in the newspapers. it certainly was widely known, and early treasured it. what does that mean? i think that is exactly what you would guess. to early, this was probably one of the most significant pieces of paper that he had ever received. because while others had for sake of him and did not believe in his abilities anymore, his intelligence, lee still did, and he made it clear that he was removing him with reluctance. i i think early treasured that. i think they established that relationship. elizabeth: other questions? in the middle there, jack, as well. >> my question is mostly for professor cushman. you talked about there's a lot romanticization of southern culture. is this something that comes back in retrospect? stephen: during the war, it is not yet past tense. through the valley campaign, he is feeling elated. he did suffer from rheumatism, quite badly, and he was stricken during the seven days, but i think you can start to feel the tone change. the place that he loved more than anywhere on earth was the is that taylor loved more anywhere than earth was louisiana. after he distinguishes himself in the shenandoah valley campaign and gets through some of the peninsula campaign, although he is sick, he is sent to command louisiana. louisiana is only good for. -- is only beautiful. there are long paragraphs about the garden of eden and a paradise, so forth, and i think you can feel in a section of that book how painful it is for him because now the war is on his turf in a way that it was not in virginia. he knows the people in louisiana to whom things are happening. also, under banks, nathaniel banks that we have heard in the shenandoah is that he then figures in louisiana. the other thing to say about taylor, he is an interesting guy , and that he is very worldly. he is the son of zachary taylor, the son of the president. he goes to yale, goes up north, so he is always kind of carrying the flag for the louisiana, for his home, in lots of different parts of the country, so i think there is a kind of built in -- not nostalgia but certainly home boosting going on in much of his career. elizabeth: sir, you had a question? >> i actually have two questions. as the federal authorities occupied the valley, where there any instances of the federal authorities taking objection to what may have been preached on sunday in different churches, and was there any directive there? my second question is -- as early engaged in his war of words with whomever, did he ever come face-to-face with any of those adversaries, and if he did, what happened? elizabeth: john, why don't you take the first question? two waysan think of to think about that. first of all, in terms of prayers for the president, i think it was a pretty widespread protestant tendency to pray for the president sunday morning. the question is -- which president are you praying for when you are occupied? there were some preachers who try to defiantly pray for jefferson davis. they were either arrested or the were closed so services cannot be held. when william tell returns from the war, resumes his duties in lexington, trust to omit or something the prayers for the president, union soldiers temporarily still occupying lexington, intervened like, "you will pray for president johnson." elizabeth: thank you. katie, do you want to take the early part of the question? recall ai cannot face-to-face meeting right now, right off the top of my head, but what does come to mind was that during the famous newspaper duel with sheridan, this was while early was still in mexico, and he was so wounded by -- that sheridan was calling him names knowing -- this is what early said -- "knowing that i and in exile in mexico and cannot confront him face-to-face to talk this out like proper gentleman." i'm sure many of you know early several timesuels in his life. with various figures, the war of words almost did escalate into blows at various times. elizabeth: did you want to ask a follow-up question? anyone else? if there is no one else in the queue, you have a second chance to go. >> my second to last question is for dr. cushman. you mentioned one of taylor's purposes in writing a memoir was for it to be used as a sort of military practical book. i know some memoirs -- and thinking of specifically mccarthy's memoir, which was used by richmond public schools for almost 20 years as a textbook. i'm wondering if they've the specifically in louisiana or broadly throughout the south, was this used in military academies and secondary schools? stephen: good question. the answer is no. taylor is described as being a brilliant conversationalist, a good dinner party guest, a bit arrogant, and know it all, and i don't think he inspired a lot of love around a lot of people. and and i don't think that, say, west point or a military academy in the south or anything would've had to resort to what he had to say. but it is interesting, that instructional voice is the one he chose to identify with, even though, as i try to show so many times, he departs from it and is doing things that are not about instruction at all. so, no, it was never practically picked up. elizabeth: thank you very much. i think we will conclude the question-and-answer there. we are going to break and then reconvene. we hope you will be back after lunch. for those of you who do not frequent come to ground, the building behind this one has all kinds of eating options, so we look forward to seeing you all in about an hour at 1:00 for the second half of our day. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] interested in american history tv? visit our website at c-span.org/history. schedule,ew our tv preview upcoming programs, watch archival films and more. american history tv at c-span.org/history. this weekend on real america, 1979 united nations film, the palestinian people do have rights. it offers perspective on events in the middle east between 1947 and 19 48. here's a previous. ew. ♪ > >> by the summer 1948, half the populace of palestine have led. had issued unra. the agency's mandate to provide registered refugees with food rations, health care, basic education, enlisting the collaboration of host nations . -- andto be an financed still is financed by voluntary conservations. what work got underway, an estimated 500 thousand people were getting help. the figure had increased to 1,000,007 or 60,000 palestinians register to receive care. 1.7 6 million palestinians register to receive care. in 1948, the a similar had result that the refugees who wish to live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practical date or be duly compensated. this is the reaffirmed by the united nations every year ever since come about these resolutions fail to be blind because repatriation was not permitted by israel. most of our population is a poor population and those who have to live in camps have to live in misery and squalor and poverty. it really is intolerable. latetheless, since the the life of the cam dweller has been improved not only by the social, medical, and educational services provided in the camps, but in the first time of their lives, they have a chance by struggling politically and militarily and intellectually that they are beginning to move out of the camps. they are no longer simply forgotten people left to rot there indefinitely. ♪ beirut to lebanon. in a still recent past, a prosperous metropolis. the city devastated by an intractable civil war. affluent people live in comfort here. not the palestinians though. there are an estimated 400,000 of them in lebanon. they are crowded in areas that did not live up to our usual concept of a refugee camp. in urban ghettos that seem to get worse and worse as the years combined. this is where the family lives. refugees from 1948, they had resettled on the west bank. the 67 war brought them first to jordan. the 70's, they were forced to move to lebanon. the older boy's themselves on being fighters already. the girl still go to one of the schools for palestinian children that has been maintained and run since 1950. [bell ringing] >> watch the entire film on real america, sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern. this is american history tv only on c-span3. >> on lectures in history, hills dale professor paul marino teaches 1950's culture. he talked about how society change due to the baby boom and the emergence of teen culture. he also charts how social norms change from the victorian error to the progressive area and to the 1950's. this class is about an hour and 10 minutes. prof. moreno: today we will start the third part of this course, the introduction of this section in "the mac and heritage reader" says there are three heritagee american reader" says there are three salient developments that characterize the united states after world war ii. the continuation of the new deal's concentration of power of the social and economic life, the continuation of american