New orleans. Well explore the u. S. S. Tang submarine experience. And well take your question for historians joining us from new orleans throughout the day. World war ii 70 years later live from the National WorldWar Ii Museum beginning here at 11 00 a. M. Eastern here on cspan 3. This monday, on cspans new series landmark cases, but 1830 the Mississippi River around new orleans had become a breeding ground for cholera and yellow fever, partly due to slaughter houses in the area dumping their byproducts in the river. The other houses took them to court. Follow the slaughter house cases of 1873. Were joined by paul clement and michael ross, author of the book justice of shattered dreams, to help tell the history of this time period in the south, the personal stories of the butchers, as well as the attorneys and Supreme Court justices involved in this decision. Be sure to join the conversation as we take your calls, tweets, and Facebook Comments using the hash tag landmark cases. Live monday. For background on each case while you watch, order your copy of the landmark cases companion book. It is available for 8. 95 plus shipping on cspan. Org. American history tv was live from the camp sumter civil war military prison in andersonville, georgia, for a ceremony commemorating p. O. W. S who died there. Our guest eric leonard, the former andersonville chief of interpretation and Leslie Gordon, university of akron history professor. This program is about three hours. Good afternoon. Youre watching American History tv on cspan and you are looking at a historic image of camp sumter, also known as the andersonville prison. Now we take you live to the Andersonville NationalHistoric Site and cemetery in andersonville, georgia, for the next three hours taking your phone calls and watching a commemorative funeral for the 13,000 prisoners of war who died here. Joining us is eric leonard. Hes the former chief of interpretation at the andersonvil andersonvil andersonville Historic Site. We are also opening up our phone lines so that you can join in on the conversation. If to give us a call and ask questions, 2027487900 in the eastern time zones. If you want to send us a tweet, do so cspanhistory. Thank you for joining us this afternoon. Its my pleasure to be here. Lets start with what is andersonville for someone who does not know. Where does it fall . Its important to start with this idea that military prisons and prisoners of war are not part often are let out of the mainstream telling of the war because quite frankly theres no winners in this story. This isnt a battlefield. Its something entirely different. Valor and honor take different forms here. In the standard telling of the war, theres an acknowledgment, yes, there are prisons, prisoners of war, and then you move right back on to the battles. Often theres in addressing this story, theres an acknowledgment of it and then no detail and then you move on. Andersonville has a name brand recognition, a notorious nature the public often dont necessarily know any of the details beyond the name and something unusual took place there. So lets start with the ba c basi basics. When was it built . What was its purpose . In the fall of 1863 as the Exchange System of the previous two years falls apart due to the presence of black soldiers in the field and the question over how to treat black soldiers, the confederacy is faced with a problem. Theyve been consolidating their prisoners holding them primarily in the richmond area and 10,000 prisoners in Richard Richmond has a drag effect on that community. If youre in the Confederate Army or the government, those resources should go to the government to fight the war. If youre a civilian, youre thinking to yourself my family is hungry. Why am i having trouble getting food . Then prisoners in Richmond Richmond is one of the primary military targets in the war. Theres a lot of fighting around the city. Having Union Soldiers in richmond makes that target everyone more attractive, and so the solution was to move the prisoners away. In november of 1863 theres this idea that southwest georgia is a very safe, very insulated place. Its far, far from the fighting. Its serviced by the Railroad System of the south and this is an agricultural bread basket. Food should be readily available. Officers come here, locate a site in that expedition to find a site in some of the same modern concepts. We consider this idea of not in my backyard. The orders to locate a prison, specify an area thats essentially 100 miles north and south between fort valley, georgia, and albany, georgia. Those are fairly big communities. Youll notice the prison didnt end up particularly near them. The county seat of Sumter County america sits seven miles south of where were at, and thats a fairly well established community. Theres 20 People Living at the andersonville station, the train stop here. Those people dont have political power, and theres willing landowners, who are absolutely ready to make the two of them make the deal. On paper, theyre supposed to receive a rent of each about 50 a year from the federal government for leasing their property to build this massive facility. Its envisioned as a prison, 16acre square, that is designed for a capacity of 6,000 to 10,000 prisoners. Thats the number of prisoners already being held in richmond, enlisted prisoners, privates, corporals, sergeants. The intent is to move them from richmond to here. Construction begins in early 1864. By the end of february, prisoners are en route and then arriving here and the prison comes into being. 6,000 to 10,000 prisoners was the original intent. How many prisoners eventually ended up there . At its height, the one time capacity in the middle of august 1864 theres over 32,000 u. S. Soldiers being held inside the prison. By that time, the original stockade had had a tenacre expansion. Thats built in the month of june and opened on the first of july. And so mr. Leonard, could you follow up if you have that many people in such a confined space, whats living like there . Give us a sense of the conditions and eventually what ends up to the prisoners there. This is a forested part of south georgia, so to construct the prison, slave labor is used to clear cut the forest. The pine logs are rough hewn. The interior of the prison, the first prisoners that arrived describe it as a place where construction debris is clearly evident everywhere. There are stumps. There are branchs. Its a very disturbed place. There is no shelter. Prisoners improvise shelter out of the debris that is present. One of the routines of the prison operation is a wood gathering details are allowed out daily. When youre gathering that wood, youre looking for two purposes. Obviously one was firewood for cooking, but larger pieces of wood, castoff debris, thats shelter building material. Dont forget folks watching at home, if you want to contribute to the conversation and ask questions about the conditions at andersonville prison, how the prisoners were treated, now is the chance to do so to talk with our guest eric leonard. If you live in the mountain and pacific time zones, 2027488901. Go ahead and make those calls. If you want to tweet at us, you can do so cspanhistory. Lets pretend im a prisoner coming to the prison. Whats my day like . How am i processed into there and what happens to me after that . In the 14 months of the prisons operation, the answer to that question changes dramatical dramatically. For those initial prisoners who arrive in late february of 1864 it seems strange when you know what comes later. They see andersonville as an improvement. Its better than libby prison or bell isle at richmond. Its an improvement. The weather in south georgia seems nicer. Theyve got a change of venue. Theyre kind of excited about that opportunity. As prisoners arrive, every prisoner that arrives here and leaves here does so on a train. The train is integral to this story, and when youre offloaded at the train station, the train itself, the train tracks, the train station are almost a half a mile to the west of the main prison compound, the stockade. And so theres a march, what some prisoners refer to as 800 paces to hell later on. Then outside of the gates closer to the main compound youre counted out. Youre assigned into detachments and squads because roll call is a critical part of the daily experience of the prison. Roll call is how the confederate command determines how many prisoners they have and what their disposition is. So theyre counting the number of prisoners in the hospital, the number of prisoners inside the stockade, theyre making daily lists of the number of prisoners who arrive, number of prisoners who transfer out, the number of prisoners who die, and they separate that out from the number of prisoners who die in the hospital and the number of prisoners who die inside the compound itself. As far as being in the general population with so many people, we can talk a little bit more at length about this later on, but give us a sense of health conditions. Were there clean facilities . Give us a sense of what living like was on that front. One way to start with that is the hospital. In 14 months, there was a hospital. Its in three different locations. Then theres sort of a fourth adjunct to that. For the prisoners, theres a separate prison facility for the prison staff. That was a compound frame with twostory structures. Where the prison hospital starts is inside the compound itself. Theres a sequestered area with tents and separate toilet facilities. And by may the confederate command has realized thats not a good idea. Its not working very well, so they move the prison hospital outside of the stockade itself downstream of the prison. That is a compound thats fenced and has again tents as hospital wards. Their perception is that moving it out of the prison compound and next to the stream will be a healthier space. Its important to note that the stream that theyve moved it next to is the stream that flows through the hospital the prison compound itself. Again, as originally built, 16acre square, the creek, what we call Prison Branch or Stockade Branch today, enters the middle of the west side of the compound, flows through the wall. The creek is literally the single most geographic feature of the prison because it is the plumbing. The intention is prisoners will collect clean Drinking Water at that west side of the prison. In the middle section of the prison, perhaps theyll bathe, clean themselves in the flow of the creek. And on the downstream side the creek is channelled into a structure that is a toilet. The intention of all of this is the flow of the creek will flush the toilet. The success of that is designed on an understanding in the 1860 of germs an bacteria, which is to say no understanding of that at all. What they dont know when they do this is theyve create ed th perfect breeding ground for disdi dysente dysentery. We have calls. Go ahead. Caller yes, sir. My question is why does andersonville have such a Bad Reputation nationally in the overview of the civil war prisons in regards to elmira, which had a very severe death rate . Just 4 or 5 less than andersonville, yet there was plenty of supplies available from the north with railroads that would supply the prisoners, yet andersonville gets such a Bad Reputation. Its really easy to answer. Andersonville is the deadliest place on american soil. 13,000 american soldiers die here in 14 months. That is a death toll that cannot be compared to any other place. Percentages are a trap. Theyve been used to create a sense of false equivalency. 3,000 men perish in a year at elmira. That is a grievous loss. Its hard to defend. Theres a complex of serious reasons why that occurs. In a single month, the month of august 1864 in andersonville, 6300 people die. Survivors spend the rest of their lives coming to terms with what happens to them, what happens to their friends. Families who lose their loved ones here struggle with what was it for. While 13,000 men die here, nearly 30,000 live. Thats probably the bigger number. The survivors of this experience after the war comes to an end, they really struggle with what did it mean. How does it fit into the larger victory . Its not a traditional battlefield. Theres not this sense of valor for your suffering. In fact, prisoners of war until considered to be cowards, to be failures as soldiers. In that survivors guilt is really something Union Soldiers struggle with immediately after the wars end. Our next call, connie raleigh, north carolina. Good afternoon. Caller yes. Mr. Leonard, i have a question. I recently watched the ken burns documentary on the civil war. And they stated in that document that the superintendent or the warden of andersonville was convicted of war crimes and he was hanged. Id like to know what his name was. Can you verify that for me, please . Thats absolutely true. This is captain henry wurts. Hes assigned here in march of 1864. He serves the command structure of the prison is in many respects dysfunctional by design. When you explore it, it makes no sense. Theres a colonel that commanded the entire military complex here, because this is a really big place with at times thousands of confederate sold r soldiers here or moving through. You have supply depots at the train station and then the massive infrastructure to run the prison. You have a colonel in charge of that. Underneath him, you have a series of departments that are essentially all overseen by captains. A Quarter Master for the nonflood suppliesupplies. A commissary for food. Theres a chief surgeon who oversees the hospital operation. Then you have this captain. His job is to oversee the operation of the prison. Separate from that, the guard forces that are here through most of the prisons operation are georgia reserves. A kind of form of militia. These are not combat ready troops. These are teenagers. These are old men who have little to no training, little to no discipline. Then they were assigned on duty as guards at the stockade, captain wurts has authority over them. Wurts is often absolutely frustrated with the quality of his guards. They have no discipline. They dont follow orders. He complains about them constantly. His hands are tied with that command structure. Hes dependent on the Quarter Master for supplies, the commissary for food. So that roll call theyre doing every day, once they have the roll call, they forward the number of prisoners to the commissary and the commissary officer has to provide the food into the prison. Food was delivered once a day. Henry wurts is still on station, still here the first week of may in 1865 as the prison is essential lly blown to the wind. There are no prisoners. The guard staff is gone. The colonel fled to florida the week before. Henry wurts is still here. That leads to his arrest on may 7th, 1865. He is transported eventually first to macon on to chattanooga and then finally washington, d. C. After his arrest and during that transport period, his escort at one point in chattanooga turned him over to the guard house, the federal guard house in chattanooga. That was a mistake. When the captain, who is escorting him, comes back, henry wurts has been beaten. Hes been recognized by the men who were once in his care. During his transport to washington, d. C. , they end up shaving the beard off of his face so hes less recognizable because 30,000 men lived through this. They recognize him immediately. Theyre the ones in trying to figure out who to blame theres a larger command structure at andersonville, but prisoners dont see that. They see henry wurts every day, and they tell stories of the dutch captain, one of his many nicknames. Hes tried at a military t tribunal in washington, d. C. From august 1865 until october. Hes put to death november 10th, 1865. Hes often described as the only confederate soldier to be put to death or tried for war crimes. Thats not true. Hes absolutely, positively the most famous. By the time of his execution, hes the third confederate captain to be tried and executed for war crimes in 1865. Mr. Leonard, we are asking people to give comments and questions on facebook. Claire larson writes in this morning on facebook saying there was a movie called andersonville and asking you if it was an accurate portrayal of the Legal Proceedings that followed the war and if it accurately conveyed the true nature of the internment. Reporter theres two films about us. Tnt did a 1996 mini series about the prison that focuses on prison life and dramatizes a fairly early infamous moment in the prisons operation. The camp raiding and the prosecution and execution of a group of prisoners known as the raiders. Separately, there was a stage play in 1970 that was turned into a pbs film starting William Shatner called the andersonville trial. That was a dramatization of henry wurts. It drilled down to something its a 14month story and they drill down to something that is over and done one month before the worst moments of the prisons history. Its a very dramatic story. The story of the raiders ultimately has a very nice, neat, narrative arc. A beginning, a middle finally their execution by fellow prisoners at the permission of not simply the Prison Authority but the Confederate Army all the way to richmond has okayed that. Thats got a nice beginning, middle, and an end. The prison of war experience, the day in and day out of it nobody wants to watch it. Youre hungry. Youre dirty. You have to go to the bathroom. Theres a lot of just sitting around and waiting on a fate that is very uncertain. And so the tnt film, the background detail is stunning. Its absolutely when i watch that, thats what i key into because it is a very accurate portrayal in the background of how people were trying to live here, struggling to survive. Youre watching American History tv on cspan 3. We are learning about the andersonville prison and its role in the civil war. Our guest is eric leonard. You can call in and ask him questions. Number is going to be on your screen. You can tweet us and fac