And outrage, joe biden only wanted to talk to them about guns. Today is the birth of birthday of mary j. Blige and Jim Hightower and on the 208th anniversary of the michigan territory ford announces theyre creating 2200 new jobs. So dont say we never give you any good news. This is viewpoint. [ music ] john good evening, im john fugelsang. Thanks for joining us. Even socalled wars of necessity must come to an end. While the u. S. War in afghanistan is far from over, the effort to wind the war down is picking up speed. President obama held the News Conference with afghan President Hamid karzai it followed two days of talks between karzai and Top Administration officials including secretary of state Hillary Clinton and secretary of defense leon panetta. President obama reported that american troops would continue to fight along side afghans until 2014 when the war would be over. But it would about to change. Obama let me say it as plainly as i can. Starting this spring our troops will have a different mission. Training advising, assisting Afghan Forces. It will be an historic moment. And another step towards full afghan sovereignty, something that i know president karzai cares deeply about, as do the afghan people. John for his part, president karzai praised the agreement we reached with mr. Obama and highlighted peace talks that are supposed to provide a political solution to the conflict. We also agreed on the steps that should be taking in the peace process. We agreed on allowing the Taliban Office in qatar in doha where the taliban will engage in direct talks with the representatives of the afghan high council for peace where well be seeking the help of relevant regional countries including pakistan. Cenk and we all know how helpful pakistan has been in afghanistan. Now the president didnt say how Many American troops would actually be staying in afghanistan, either before 2014 when the war is supposed to end or as part of the residual force for untold years to come. Most americans seem to want them all out right now. According to a pew poll taken last october just over a third of American Adults think u. S. Troops should stay in afghanistan until the situation is stable while 60 would like the troops out as soon as pop as weather a decade of wars was worth the cost, president obama suggested that it was. At the end of this conflict we are going to be able to say that the sacrifices that were made by those men and women in uniform has brought about the goal that we sought. For more on the president s News Conference and americans future in afghanistan, lets go to two of my distinguished guests p. J. Callly, profession at George Washington university, and one Time Assistant for National Security affairs for president clinton and Steve Clemons is editor at large at the atlantic, and senior fellow and founder of the new America Foundation america Strategy Program and author of the washington note. Welcome. Its my view that the afghan war is like the reality show that has been on forever. Nobody watches it, nobody likes it, it worsts way too much and yet its renewed every year. Were you surprised . No, i wasnt. Both sides got something of meaning. For president karzai, he gets a return to sovereignty and a pledge that u. S. Force also leave afghan villages sooner rather than later. Thats important to the afghan people. The president got something important on the backside. Towards the end of the press conference all the pieces required to have a followon force are there. An arrangement on immunity of crops thattroops that commit to sovereignty and continue to support and train the of a Afghan Forces as the Afghan Forces take over responsibility they will carry the load whether theyre ready or not. John indeed, steve, is it your opinion that the Afghan Forces are ready to take on the extremists. Weve had a warm and fuzzy karzai and i think p. J. Described the president and his goals here accuratecally. But given what the realities are on the ground, which were much messier. It would be nice if the taliban do negotiate from qatar, and in part i think they will do that. Today you have a shift back to warlordism in certain parts of the county and you have contests for control in certain parts of the country. That didnt get discussed much. I think when karzai does leave hell go out and emphasize the return of sovereignty because he needs to demonstrate that hes getting rid of these americans to some degree. There isboth sides are getting something they want. But the reality is a much more messy one. John p. J. Steve makes a very good point. Is it inevitable there will be some return to warlordism ruling over afghanistan and is democracy something that can be imposed on another nation. You have to define democracy. Is it going to be jeffersonian democracy . Not at all. But could there be a more effective government . There could be. Theyre not there yet. While many leaders acknowledge that the goals going into afghanistan in 2001 have been achieved. Whatever we achieve will be short of the ideal. A lot will depend on what happens in this onagain, offagain dialogue among afghanistan, taliban and pakistan. That was one of the hidden messages that both leaders mentioned today. There is a reopening of a Taliban Office in doho qatar which means there is going to be a mechanism for afghanistan Pakistan Taliban and quote unquote relevant countries to carry on a conversation and see if the reconciliation process can work. John i think youre right, and that will be the point of contention for washington. President karzai talked about allowing a Taliban Office in qatar. Has there been progress towards peace talks with the taliban gentlemen . I think its been on and off. There have been in the private sector of americans and others have been promoting and trying to set up some track to communications. Its difficult because the taliban are not a neat and simplerun organized franchise where you have easy phone numbers to call. Its a competing set of groups, and sometimes its very difficult to know who youre speaking to. But i do believe the qatar track is one that is proven to be potentially more reliable. I myself have met what they call former taliban commanders in do ho. Its where they run through more than other places. Its a complex operation. When you talk to them, one of the interesting take away with the taliban is how frustrated they are with pakistan. We often present them in the American Press as being a tool of pakistan. But the taliban, at least the one ive spoken to, the former taliban, they dont see it that way. While an occasional ally, they frustrate the taliban as well. John in the eyes of Many Americans, the taliban is in inseparable from alqaeda. P. J. Do you think an alqaedafree taliban would ever be palatable to some elements of g. O. P. Or the Democratic Party as well . Youre inferring that well ultimately decide what the talibans relationship is with the afghan government. I think we should recognize that we have our preferences for how this government will shape itself Going Forward but i think were going to lose a lot of leverage as determining that outcome. But i think steve is absolutely right. When you have conversations with these folks, you just dont know, are they speaking for an entire movement . Are they speaking for a sliver of a moment . And pakistans role in this is going to be vitally important. You do have taliban who do talk to karzai, and ultimately you got to have taliban to have conversation with the karzai government. That has been a step that the taliban has resisted. John its a fascinateing debate and i know it will only get messier and more involved as the months lead up. Youll be joining me in the next segment because what you dont know about drone wars can hurt a lot of people every day. Thats coming up next. Honest. They can question whether im right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us. vo as marijuana gains social and legal acceptance, a new pioneer is emerging from the backwoods. Im basically like a farmer. Instead of corn, youve got dope. vo but what is legal and what is criminal . This is, no matter what you do, a violation of federal law. vo follow real farmers staking their claim on a new frontier. Lots of terrible things happen to people growing marijuana. This crop to me is my livelihood. I have everything invested in this. Only on current tv. John after over ten years american troops are beginning their draw dawn from afghanistan but no one seems to be talking about drawing down americas Drone Program, especially when the man who creates president obamas kill list john brennan is nominated to head the agency that controls the drones. With an Approval Rating close to 80 , most americans approve of obamas Drone Program. No troops are in harms way and there is rarely instances of civilian deaths. No civilians are ever killed in drone strikes. In a loophole, this administration counts all militaryage males in a strike zone as combatants unless there is explicit intelligent posthumously showing them innocent. Of the estimated 2,562 to 30,325 People Killed in drone strikes since 2004 anywhere between 474 and 818 were civilians including 176 children. Thats just in pakistan. That does not even attack into account strikes in yemen and somalia where there have been five reported drone strikes in the last month alone. Its really no wonder that some experienced military officials question the effectiveness of the Drone Program. Retired general Stanley Mcchrystal is the architect of the insurgency in afghanistan and said that drone strikes may be creating more terrorists than they kill. The resentment created by american use of unmanned strikes is much greater than the average american appreciates. Theyre hit on the visceral level even by people who have never seen one or seen the effects of one. Joining me now is robert naman. President of truth out. Thank you for your time tonight. Good to be with you. John its great to have you. Considering that bush policies outrage progressives so much we havent seen progress progressives push back just yet. Is this a case of sticking to your own side or will they reform the Drone Program in the c. I. A. . First overwhelming there will are a small number of people who are following the issues. You say at a that 80 80 of americans support the program but 80 of americans have no idea what actually is going on. This program is still officially classified. The Administration Officials have rarely spoken about it in public. When they have theyve made two central claims, that the program is narrowly targeted on top level terror officials, and civilians casualty has been extremely rare. Those claims are actually false according to independent reporting. What the 80 of the public is supporting is a program that doesnt exist. They dont know anything about the program that does exist. This is key Going Forward. Will the Program Becomes more transparent. Whether control willen transferred from the c. I. A. To the military, which many think including Human Rights Watch think would help make the program more transparent so people can have a public discussion about what the United States government is doing. I think what happens in brennans confirmation hearing the opposition to brennan is people think he will be confirmed. Secondly what decision will happen in brennans confirmation hearing. Until now there has been no public discussion when petraeus was nominated and confirmed. It was reported that he would be questioned about the drone strike. Then there was no discussion because it happened behind closed doors or the discussion was interrupted by concern that it was getting into classified territory. The president can term what is classified. The president can determine if there is going to be discuss. If what we hear is true, that brennan wants to lead us away from c. I. A. Control and lead us in the direction of transparency the confirmation hearing would be an excellent time to show us that, ask questions about the policy and an excellent time for brennan to answer those questions. John if brennan it antipointed head of the c. I. A. Will that slow drone attacks or is that regardless of who has got the job. Brennan has been nominated. I think that question is off the table. One of obamas policy Going Forward is a question. We have reports saying that it will be institutionalized. And we have another report that theyll try to limit the roles of the c. I. A. There are reports that drone strikes in pakistan will be decreased and now there are reports that theyre increased. It has not been determined. Clearly there are different factions in the administration. Some of very criticallal some want you to double down, and were not having the public discussion that we should be having because the program is classified. The first step to a different policy is to declassifying the overall policy and allowing there to be public discussion and debate, including u. S. Officials and answering questions on the record about the pressure. John robert naman. Policy director and president of truth out. Thank you for allowing us to have the die lag about the situation. Thank you for coming on the program. Thank you. John thank you. John for more, lets bring back p. J. Crawly, and senior fellow steve clemos. Thank you so much for staying with me. You heard what robert namon said and what mr. Mcchrystal said. Its keeping troops out of harms way and its clearly here to say. Does general mcchrystal say say what is true, that its creating for terrorists . In a book looking at what was the truth then, america as a globally sprawling hegemonic force in the world that has become numb about the costs and consequences of its various engagements r and it was argued that there would be a price paid for that at some point. I think general mcchrystal is absolutely right. In the eyes of the world today because we dont have a legal infrastructure in my view that supports the use of drones in a new and different kind of war were fighting gray wars against people and institutions that are not states. And in my view we need to codify that. I dont think the drones are going away, a a codification and a new global deal around them can go a long way in at least trying to solve some of these tension points, not all of them, but certainly we know two things. The deployment of drones has disrupted a lot of serious potential highlevel terrorism, and despite what the department of defense says, a lot of innocent people have been killed. There has been a very good database with the research that has been done. A bit like joe kennedy this is jfks father ted kenneds father who made a lot of money in the market by manipulating the markets Insider Trading and then he was made chairman of fcc later by roosevelt to clean it up. I think john brennan is the same guy. He understands the extraordinary rendition, enhanceed interrogation, drones and part of his job despite keeping his country safe with the c. I. A. Is developing the infrastructure that gets us out of the subjective deployment of these drones that is problematic in the United States. John after listening to robert namo talk about how 80 of the americans who support the Drone Program dont understand the full ramifications of what the drones are doing. Im not sure that the american dont know. They know a variety of actions that weve taken since 2001 has kept them safe, and they want the current strategy to condition. Another number that is important, 74 . 74 of pakistanis believe the United States is an enemy and the drones, because theyre not talked about by the United States or by the pakistani government overtly are a great source of that tension. I certainly certainly endorse the idea that we have to be transparent Going Forward. The two issues were talking about, afghanistan and drones, they do converge at the end of 2014. At the end of 2014 well end the war in afghanistan having already ended the war in iraq, but the challenge of fighting terrorists will continue. And this is where i think steves point about making sure that we have a solid Legal Foundation is vitally important. Right now we have something called the amuf. The authorization of the use of military force to attack and defend the United States against those who were directly or indirectly responsible for 911. With the end of the afghan war in 2014, when you start to talk about extremist that is do exist and threaten us and yemen and somalia potentially the country like nigeria or in mali we get further and further away from 911. I think there has to be a strong debate within congress. John brennan can be a real significant figure here. So the American People know after 2014 what are we going to continue to do to keep the country safe, and they want to be assured that the strategy is creating fewer terrorists and more terrorists and we have a solid Legal Foundation of steps were going to take. John if brennan is sincere moving the Drone Program