Show. Cinema great Christopher Nolan who did inception and the dark knight trilogy and Arnold Schwarzenegger who was not a cinema great but shows us what happens when you cheat on a kennedy. This is viewpoint. John good evening, friends, im john fuglesang. Welcome once again to viewpoint here on current tv. The first major wikileaks case by captivated the world has come to an end, sort of. Army private Bradley Manning set off a firestorm when the trove of secret documents he released to wikileaks went public. He was acquitted of the most serious charge in the military courtmartial, aiding the enemy. But the private is not out of the woods. Manning was convicted of 20 of the remaining 21 charges including six counts of espionage, five theft charges and other military violations. He will likely be in prison for decades so what will be the Ripple Effect of this verdict . Well, lets ask people smarter than me. Faiza patel and chase is author of the passion of Bradley Manning and contributor to the nation. Pleasure to have you both back here on viewpoint. Lets dig in. Faiza, what was your reaction to todays verdict . I was pleased to see that he was acquitted of the aiding the enemy charge because that would have been truly a travesty of justice. That charge should be about somebody whos actually trying to aid the enemy as opposed to somebody who puts information out into the public fear and might incidentally be of interest to the enemy. I was pleased to see that that charge was dismissed by the judge. On the other charges, those are charges which dont actually require much more than Bradley Manning had already admitted to. So that was, i guess, less surprising that that happened. The other charge i think is really significant is the charge about the video in afghanistan and the fact that he was actually acquitted of that one particular piece of the charges against him. John for those who dont know, this is a video that shows a reporter being killed by an apache helicopter. No, it is not that video. It is a different video. John im sorry. There was a second video which related to the killing of some civilians in islam stand and the reason it is important is because the government tried really hard to show that Bradley Manning had released that video at an early point in time and that would have demonstrated that he was cahoots with wikileaks, in coming together to release these documents. Very important piece of the governments case that fell apart in this verdict. John chase, any surprises for you . Were you as surprised as i was that the aiding the enemy charge was thrown out . You know, i hate to come on all nate silver on you here but frankly, it is pretty much exactly what i would have predicted. The aiding enemy was wildly farfetched and even in military court where ot things can happen, i did not think it was going to stick. I cant say im delighted by it because the espionage act charges are very severe. This was the first es es peenage where it has been argued film on the merits and it hasnt crumpled pretrial or turned into a trial. John espionage for whom . It doesnt seem relevant in this case. This is an antiquited statute from world war i. It was nerve intended as an englishstyle official secrets act. That was wonderful man, Richard Nixon who repurposed the act as a weapon against daniel ellsberg, white whale, his nemesis and that case crumpled in the end because of the criminality and illegality of the nixon administrations pursuit of ellsberg. John fay is faiza, what do you think happens for manning . I think there are a lot of steps before prisons for decades. He will have his sentencing hearing which starts tomorrow. The government has a list of witnesses, most of whom has declined to reveal their identities and Bradley Manning put on witnesses that demonstrate he had good motive and all of that would be considered by the judge in deciding how much time he actually gets. So thats one step. After that, there are several appeals that are available to manning as long as he has a sentence of over six months which seems highly likely. A dishonorable discharge from the military, then it gets an automatic review by the convening authority. After that, there is an appeal to a specific Appellate Court and then he can also take it up to the Supreme Court. So there is a long way to go before this case is finally finished. John i would like to read you both a tweet that someone sent to my twitter page. I would like to share. Ken struck wrote. I hear you, ken. Chase, what do you think . Im going to bitch, ken. John please, bitch away. Its true that privates who buck the system are likely to get scapegoated. I think in case, Bradley Manning is being scapegoated for the entire iraq war. We never prosecuted the architects of the war. Certainly the c. I. A. Or their lawyers but finally, we found a fall guy, the elijah cook jr. Role if youre into really old, obscure movies like i am. And theyve got him. I dont think it is a good thing though. Military discipline is important but it should not be the supreme value in any free country. John i think we can all agree though, ive had a hard time understanding why it is so hard for people to chew gum and walk mentally on this issue. What he did was a violation of the law and he deserves to do time for it, at the same time, he revealed crimes the perpetrators of which arent going to see any time. Thats the outrage. Am i mistaken, faiza . Thats right. Our laws dont deal with that conflict. The idea that you know, you can do a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. So we have very heavy penalties for all of the disclosures. Thats why the guy is facing 100 plus years in jail. John, im not going to walk or chew gum on this one. I think he does not deserve to do a day more time than hes already done and i think anyone who knows u. S. History will admit that there is a time and a place for civil disobedience against the law, to break the law. I dont think that gay couples that went on a hot date 50 years ago somehow got away with something and are bad people because they broke the law. Im not even going to get started about our history of racism, legally codified in this country. So i think what he did was a great public service. Just like ellsberg, he deserves to be a free man. John im glad you brought up the time already served. He spent a huge amount of time in solitary confinement which many sane people say is torture. Should mannings treatment, subsequent convictions today be seen as a warning to any future whistleblowers or journalists . Absolutely. I think thats the point, isnt it . When the government goes after somebody in such an aggressive way. So aggressively. I think the message theyre sending is dont try to do this. But i do think the fact that the judge did dismiss the aiding the enemy charge is an important piece because if she had upheld that charge, that would have meant that any media outlet that published leaked information would be equally guilty of aiding the enemy. That is one small Silver Lining in this. John chase, how would you distinguish private mannings case from mr. Snowdens case . Really flip sides of the same coin. Two 20 something young men who have been doing the nuts and bolts work of National Security. Either eyebrowed, deployed in iraq, in the military or doing National Security work, surveilling peoples emails and conversations. It is critical that we listen to the real message that were getting from these young people because what theyre saying has not been heavily processed by legal departments, by spin doctors, its the raw truth of what is actually going on in the name of National Security, a lot of its not pretty. I think we need to start stop chanting the words 911 like its some magic charm that can justify anything no matter how foolish. Quit the hysterics and come back to our senses by listening to the brave, young people. John i think right now, presumably Edward Snowden is sitting in a moscow airport, Orange Julius week after week after, there is probably no one looking at the case more keenly than he. Hes used the treatment of private manning as a major force for his arguments for asylum. What effect, faiza, do you think todays convictions will have on the snowden case . I dont think it is going to give snowden any comfort because i think manning is still facing a very large amount of time. I think, you know, one piece of it will become more clear once the judge issues her sentence. That will also tell us how the military judge is viewing what manning did and how shes actually taking account of his motive. Thats important. But i dont think the verdict in this case will make snowden leave moscow airport and come home. John i think it will take a lot more than that. In this case, chase, does it seem to you like its time now that we have a movement for real reform and a real set of standards for how whistleblowers and leakers are to be treated . Yeah, it is high time for that conversation. And i think the snowden affair has been terrific for Bradley Manning and his longterm prospects because it has forced a reconsideration inside both patients which are bitterly split on these issues to rethink the fundamentals on whats the greater risk. Is it extreme levels of secrecy and surveillance or is it somehow not enough . John should government officials who blow the whistle on their government employers be protected by the First Amendment . And what government would ever allow that . Is that feasible to see . I think what is infeasible is whistleblower reform. We do have laws that deal with regular whistleblowers. If you come across unsafe conditions on your worksite. You can report that. Youre protected when you do that because your employer cant fire you. When it comes to National Security, however, we have a very different regime which is much less protective of National Security whistleblowers, particularly people in the military are not covered, people in National Security functions, most of them are not covered either. So that clearly needs to be reformed. I think more broadly, you know, the laws under which manning has been charged, the espionage act provisions carry really heavy sentences and the government can just pile them on one after another, based on basically the same conduct. We have to think about how those kinds of might be mitigated by the intent of the person more specifically. John do you feel that todays rulings helped harden the line between whistle blowing and espionage . Is it going to be harder to accuse a whistleblower of espionage in the future because of what weve a seen today. I think you have to be careful of accuse a whistleblower of espionage. It has a bunch of provisions. Theyre not all espionage. When you think of espionage, you think of Something Like treason, deliberately giving information john the falcon and the snowman selling secrets to the russians for money and hes out now. He escaped from federal prison. Hes out. Bradley manning may wind up doing more time than he did and he was a spy. The closest to espionage with which he was charged was aiding the enemy. Thats the one he was acquitted on. So the other provisions while theyre part of the espionage act and we can talk about whether thats appropriate, are really more about disclosure of classified information or theft in one form other another. John chase, where do you think this is going to take us as a country . I think it is taking us to distopian secrecy. What Bradley Manning released is not 1 of the documents released last year. Yet there is panic about opening the floodgates. Bradley manning did not opponent floodgates. It is just a trickle of Important Information of which weve been starved. I think that national cluelessness has been a very bad strategy in Foreign Affairs and military affairs for the united states. Weve shed great deal of blood and burned up a great deal of money. Not to mention inflicting incredible misery because we were clueless, because we made poorlyinformed decisions. Thats why i think Bradley Mannings leaks are a gift to the world and above all, to the united states. John i thank you both for your expertise on this issue. Faiza patel is codirector of the liberty and National Security program for the Brennan Center for justice. Chase madar is author of the passion of Bradley Manning and a contributor to the nation. Well eagerly look forward to what happens in the sentencing tomorrow. Yes, we will. John thank you. Stick around because big things are happening in washington. Im just kidding. Of course. They do less than the human appendix but stick around. Cenk off air alright in 15 minutes were going to do the young turks i think the number 1 thing than viewers like about the young turks is that were honest. They know that im not bsing them for some hidden agenda, actually supporting one party or the other. When the democrats are wrong, they know im going to be the first one to call them out. Cenk on air whats unacceptable is how washington continues to screw the middle class over. Cenk off air i dont want the middle class taking the brunt of the spending cuts and all the different programs that wind up hurting the middle class. Cenk on air you got to go to the local level, the state level and we have to fight hard to make sure they cant buy our politics anymore. Cenk off air and they can question if im right about that. But i think the audience gets that, i actually mean it. Cenk on air 3 trillion dollars in spending cuts narrator uniquely progressive and always topical, the Worlds Largest online news show is on current tv. Cenk off air and i think the audience abilities is trying to look out for us. Only on current tv john today was a big day in american history, a day many middle class americans have been waiting for since the president took office. Real progress on the jobs front or was it just another speech. Well, maybe not. In what has been dubbed the grand bargain, president obama laid down his plan. Obama so, again, heres the bottom line. Im willing to work with republicans on reforming our Corporate Tax code as long as we use the money from transitioning to a tax system for a significant investment in creating middle class jobs. Thats the deal. [ applause ] john republicans are already scoffing. Is there anything for them to bite at . Will the president get any real reform accomplished before his term ends . And before the 2014 midterms. Here to answer this and many other important questions, were thrilled to be joined by the one and only congressman adam b. Schiff representing the 2k8th Congressional District of the great state of california. What a pleasure to have you with us on viewpoint. It is great to be with you. John what do we think . A great speech leading nowhere or do you think this time there might be actual potential for some for the sake of the country, i hope it leads to somewhere. There are a lot of people still hurting as you know out there. For most americans, the economy has been and continues to be the top issue, the top concern that americans have for their families and their future. Im glad the president is out there and thinking creatively and trying to engage the other side. Trying to make progress. I hope it is reciprocated. The early signs though are not encouraging. Republicans even without learning details of the president s proposal are already trying to shut it down and it has unfortunately become the nature of the opposition here that is very he will reflexive. Anything the president is for has to be, by definition, a bad idea. We have to get beyond that dynamic. The American People are counting on it. It is excruciatingly frustrating for those of us in congress who came here to get things done, to see the economy trying to recover, taking steps toward recovery but yet the Congress Remains the biggest obstacle. John indeed. Many americans, as you know in the same community were shocked in 2011 that this president could pitch a jobs plan that was 60 tax cuts and still have the republicans kill it on the floor of the house. He has pitched Corporate Tax changes before but will tax reform be a motivator to get republicans to Work Together with democrats and maybe even help some of their constituents . Do you think this is the carrot weve been waiting for . I hope so. There are two factions in the g. O. P. That have been at war with each other. You have the faction that wants Corporate Tax reform to kind of mainstream pro business republicans in the republican conference and then you have the Tea Party Republican base which is very large in the house and their primary concern, if not only concern is really with attacking deficit and debt, defunding the government. So the part of the president s bargain which would apply to the savings we get from this tax reform to investments in infrastructure, investments in education rather than simply this austerity plan of using everything to pay down deficit and debt is going to run into trouble with those tea party members. So it will require leadership from the g. O. P. Which we havent seen really in the house. The speaker unfortunately has had to be at the beck and call of a lot of the Tea Party Activists but on this issue, as on immigration, as on a whole variety of issues, you could have a very Bipartisan Coalition of the mainstream members of the g. O. P. Conference and with democrats but it would probably be a minority g. O. P. Vote. John i think youre right,