And cuts take affect, White House Press secretary repeated everything including entitlement programs would be part of the talkings. Talks. Meanwhile, many are turning their back on the pledge to Grover Norquist. Times changed significantly and i care more about this country than i do about a 20yearold pledge. I agree, a pledge signed 20 years ago is for that congress. Im willing to generate revenue. Its fair to ask my party to put revenue on the table were build historic averages. It does appear that Speaker Boehner is open to talk about revenue entitlement reform. Eliot jay carney said the white house welcomed those comments and Grover Norquist tried to make light of them. Some of them have engaged in impure thoughts. They have not actually voted for a tax increase. Eliot norquist drawing the red line of any revenue even if new funds came from closing loopholes and limiting deductions. If you do that, youve just killed tax reform for a generation. Why . How do you get the rates down if you dont have the deductions in credits. What obama is hoping to do is raise taxes spend the money, kill tax reform for individual. Eliot meanwhile, some democrats would rather see the country jump off the fiscal cliff than agree to cuts in Social Security or other social programs. Telling nbc news the cliff was more like a gentle slope and there would be plenty of Time Next Year to mitigate its affects if the deal could not be made. This is not an oneday event. Thechy does not go into the tank on january 1st or january 2nd 37 all of the tax changes would be for next years taxes. Not this years taxes. You dont see that immediate impact. Eliot im joining joined by Bernie Sanders. Welcome. Thank you. Eliot do you think the hold has been broken. It does appear that is the case. After the election after poll after poll after poll some republicans are catching on to the idea that you cant get out of the deficit crisis just by cutting, cutting cutting and we all will have to raise taxes. Eliot of all the permutations that youve heard of the ideas being floated around, is there any deal that is likely to be agreed upon that you can vote for at this point ifin time. To be very honest, eliot i get a little bit nervous. I get nervous that instead of bringing back the old clinton era tax rates for the wealthyiest people 39. 6, there may an way to wiggle out of that, i get nervous when i hear the president and others continue to talk about quote unquote entitlement reform, which im afraid is just another word for cuts in medicare and medicaid, and maybe even Social Security. You know, in the first two negotiations in 2010 and 2011, the congress cut 900 billion in programs for working people. The wealthy did not contribute one nickel toward deficit reduction. I think now is the time where the democrats and the president have got to stand firm and say excuse me, the middle class is hurting in this terrible recession. The number of people who are in poverty is at an alltime high. We are not going to balance the budget on the backs of the most vulnerable and wealthy and large corporations are going to have to start paying their fair share of taxes. Eliot senator, not only do i agree with you i love to hear you state it with the clarity you always do. There is still unbelievable ambiguity with what the republicans are willing to do. There are basically three ideas floating around. One you can you would cap the amount any one person could make in deductions. Close loopholes and three raise marginal rates. The third i gather is what you think we should do. I have not heard any republican is in favor of the latter. I think its kind of mushy and revenue is a big word. You can have reaction near ways of raising revenue. To my point the president cannot and must not yield on the most important point that we go back to the tax rates of the clinton era. Thats where the money is, and thats where we got to go. Eliot you are exactly right. As you say revenue is a big elastic word, and simply agreeing to raise revenue does not mean it will be done that is progressive or in a way that is fair. Did warren buffets oped, did that have an impact within republican circles . Well, warren buffet is not a great favorite of the republicans, but i hope they catch his point. What is he saying . Hes saying im a multi billionaire. Ive never heard of any investor rejecting a good way to make money. A good investment just because of taxes. But heres the other point eliot and its at the heart and soul of what were discussing. The middle class in this country is disappearing. Do you really balance the budget by going after people who are already seeing a significant decline in their standard of living or do you ask the people on top as buffet reminds us, who are doing phenomenally well and their effective tax rate, take mitt romney, is extremely low. He says this is a nobrainer. Eliot he said its at 19. 5 and that is simply, he said its unfair and it has led to the maldirection of income and wasnt. He said do something about it. Thats why he should be what is really grotesque, you may have seen on some of the network tv, people like Lloyd Blankfein the head of goldman sachs. You have wall treat millionaires who in many ways caused this recession and with all the suffering taking place theyre going on television saying, you know weve got to cut Social Security medicare, and medicaid. Thats totally obscene. Eliot you are correct senator. I want to switch gears. One of the reasons why its been so hard, particularly in the senate to getting things accomplished is the filibuster. We have this brief open window to get filibuster reform. Where are we . Will you have the magic 51 votes and will reid be able to use get the 51 votes to get the reform. Youre quite right people are angry. Theyre hurting and congress is not responding. One of the reasons why congress is not responding is we have republicans playing an extraordinary role in terms of obstructionism. Filibuster an filibuster. I think you have folks who are working really hard on this issue. Senators americaly udal and others. If were going to do the peoples business we cant get bogged down in filibusters and we need real reform there. Eliot as always it is a great joy to have vermonts independent senator Bernie Sanders on the show. Thank you for joining us. Thank you eliot. Eliot for more on impure thoughts and what it could mean, im joined by ken vogel. Ken, thanks for joining us. Great to be with you eliot. Eliot how does Grover Norquist put down this rebellion in his own party . What muscles does he flex . What power does he have . What he has is money, and he has a lot for it. His organization spent 16 million more than they had ever spent on expressed at very casscy, the ads that explicitly say vote for or against someone in the case of the 2012 election though, he was exclusively saying vote against democrats and vote for republicans. So whether he is willing to use this money now, he has the revenue stream to go after republicans who support vote orish or just express support tax increases of any sort and it puts him in a tough spot. While he has for years had this purist crusader on this issue he has increasingly become part of the republican establishment to the point his group got 4 million from crossroads gps that karl rove backs secret money nonprofit that has become the shadow g. O. P. Is groverer norquist willing to risk his place within this emerging shadow of g. O. P. And revenue stream to go after republicans, thats a good question. Eliot and the question whether or not all those Issue Advocacy ads with a lot of money behind them from effective. I think there were a fair number of Senior Republicans who said we have to raise revenues but questioning the orthodoxy of a rigid system may be the way to go. They would think no longer. Isnt there this fundamental fork in the road for many of the Senior Republicans . You would think so, but looking back to 2010 after the the 2010 election when republicans really thought they had the mandate in the same way frankly that democrats appear to have the mandate now on fiscal issues specifically where the tea party was successful. Tea Party Candidates were successful in arguing that the Obama Administration has engaged in this reckless runaway spending with its democratic allies in congress and they were successful in taking back the house. Then one year later with the debt ceiling negotiations they seem to have overplayed their hand and really engage in this brink manship to what were seeing come to fruition again with the fiscal cliff and we have seen some interpretation that the 2012 vote was a repudiation of that. Would they learn from that . And frankly will democrats overplay their hand thinking they have this mandate to force republicans into voting for tax increases and not engage in any entitlement reform. Its shaping up to almost a mirror image of the debt ceiling eliot every winner in the election wants to interpret the tendency to overplay one hand is enormous. I hate to overplay warren buffet as a voice but he is the most successful investor. When he said revenue should be 18. 5, and that 3 is where the deficits are coming from, raise revenue, thats a potent argument from someone who isnt just an academic or someone who is a liberal by traditional standard. Does that shake the confidence of Grover Norquist or the republican leaders, do you think . I think the sentiment and the facts that lead into that conclusion. I dont think that hes the best merges to get through to republicans on this issue. While hes not a liberal by traditional standards he is considered an obama backer and he is an obama backer and contributor, i dont think he is the one to deliver that message. But i do think there are other prominent Business Leaders who are not with regarded who could be coming to this point. This is part of what were seeing now with the behindthescenes talks between the white house and Business Leaders. As youre talking about warren buffet and the stuff he lloyd out i think back of the oped i did with david koch at the Republican National convention in tampa where he said he might be open to raising rates in order to balance the budget. And he might be open to military spending cuts. He actually said he was open. He wanted there to be military spending cuts. When you have someone like that who is not only influential in the republican, and the funding the Koch Brothers steer funding to the Grover Norquist group. When he comes to that conclusion as well as the senators and representatives who are saying they would consider tax increase, i think you could be seeing a change. However, there is this question of how much of this is just posturing for negotiations and posturing to appear reasonable and appear to have listened to what democrats think is the mandate, the voice of the voters. Eliot i remember that interview you did with the Koch Brothers, it was nays fascinating. I thought, aha there is light at the end of the tunnel, but here is Grover Norquist with what the republicans are for and the ambiguity may be seeing change. Ken vogel for politico, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. Eliot is egyptian president morsi for democracy. Thats ahead. Was not prepared. I just asked myself, am i doing all that i can, am i doing the best that i can for her . My whole family was so thrilled and so excited. It was just the start of a wonderful journey. I feel lucky every single day that i have my parents, i have my grandparents and that alea has grandparents and greatgrandparents. Sometimes theyll joke around and theyll say, hows our baby, hows our baby . And shes almost like this collective family baby. The fact that all of these generations can live together happily and get to know each other and learn from each other is really incredible. My mom was diagnosed with type1 diabetes when she was 15. When she was first diagnosed they didnt even have any blood sugar monitor. People really didnt know what the future would hold for her but now, today, there are so many Resources Available to her. She has all these technological devices to help her stay healthy. Its sunny out. It is sunny out. Since alea was born, i almost feel more responsible for making the world a better place. We all have the ability to make it better for ourselves and for our children. Brought to you by roche, the maker of the new accuchek nano blood glucose meter. [ female announcer ] what would you call an ordinary breakfast pastry thats been wrapped in a flaky crust stuffed with a gooey center toasted up all golden brown then given a delicious design . A toaster strudel. Pillsbury toaster strudel. So delicious. So fun. [ female announcer ] go from zero to pizza in just 60 seconds with totinos pizza rolls and grab a bite of snackdefying, satisfying. Because pizza. Never. Misses. Its on. Lets roll. Talk about process reform can be boring, but sometimes process matters. Which brings us to our number of the day. 51. This is the simple majority of votes that should be required to pass bills in the senate. It will also be for very brief window in january the number of votes needed to change senate rules about the filibuster so that 51 senators can, in fact, get something done. If the rule isnt changed before that window closes, senators in the minority will be able to filibuster every bill as well as any effort to change the filibuster. Meaning the democrats will need 60 votes for reform, not 51. Will harry reid and the democratic majority of 55 senators seize the moment . Messages out of the senate seem mixed. Only two areas of reform are being talked about widely. First, ending filibusters that prevent debate from even starting. Second actually requiring senators to go out on the floor and filibuster, not just threaten to. But thats not enough. Something more fundamental is needed. While the filibuster should be eliminated all together at a minimum the number of votes needed to end one should be dropped to 55. And certain types of votes such as nominations by the president should be blocked from vulnerability to the filibuster. If republicans dont like it, they only have them to blame. They are the ones who abused the filibuster and brought governance to a grinding halt. Last wednesday egyptian president Mohammed Morsi was praised for his statesmanlike and pragmatic role in brokering a ceasefire between israel and hamas. But on the domestic front it was viewed by many as a power grab as morsi faced accusations that he was trying to turn himself into the new mubarak. President morsi assumed total legislative power. In a fumble decree last week morsi unilaterally declared that the decisions he made would not be subject to appeal in any court or oversight by any authority, granting him nearly dictataldictate really power today after meeting with the judge the Supreme Judicial Court morsi agreed to narrow the scope of his decree. Joining me now is Aaron David Miller former middle eastern adviser for democratic and republican administrations. Thank you for joining us. A pleasure. Eliot so was this a power grab or was it smart to keep the courts from derailing the egyptian move to democracy. I think it was both. Morsi clearly faced challenges. Many of these judges are mubarak holdovers, determined to create common balance. Any judiciary would in a democracy, to ascribe to the my way or the highway approach. Morsi was testing to see what in fact, he could get away with. The up shot of course is that in this dysfunctional political system you have a kind of democratic antidemocratic ticktock which is going to at least for the moment compromise legitimate institutions of governance and create tremendous suspicion on the part of seculars, the liberals and the military that morsi does in fact have a much longer and for authoritarian agenda. Eliot the timing, the moment that morsi is getting praised internationally. Theyre saying hes pragmatic and reasonable. Then he responds by this decree. It expects to me that he was not expecting the domestic push back. He thought he had a window internationally, but then he had a push back where he least expected it, which is in the street. There is no question about that. The difference between a clever and wiseman. A clever man knows how to get himself out of a difficult situation. A wise man knows how not to put himself there in to begin with. I think that morsi having locked up 4. 5 billion loan from the imf that he had an opportunity to test and create some cover for this move, but clearly the reactions in the street, the reactions from his own minister of justice suggests that there is going to be push back. I think in the end the real problem here i dont think its an authoritarian brotherhood as much as a dysfunction political system. We cant look at this in a framebyframe exercise. Only 22 countries in the world have maintained their democratic character continuously. This Democracy Club is an elite club, and time is the ultimate arbitor not only of good wines and the like but if a good country can maintain its democratic character. Its a long movie were watching. Eliot and a tenuous moment where morsi is trying to bridge the gap between mubarak and institutions and as you said a few moments ago the judiciary is a mubarak holdover and hes Getting Along Better with the United States than his own support structure. Hes borrowing a page from the mubarak book. Can morsi play the role of totalitarian if he supports american and israeli issues on other matters the fight against terror, try to isolate iran, these are issues that mubarak cooperated well with the west, and we bargained in terms of this cooperation we gave mubarak a pass, more or less, actually more on the issue of human rights and gun control. Morsi cannot play the same game as mubarak but on this narrow issue he saw an window here to make his move as justification and cover. Eliot what happens next in the ceasefire . Am i right . Hamas has now empowered and the voices in israel that dont want p