Online. The old order is history the world is reorganizing itself and the medias role these keep shifting powers the topic in focus at the Global Media Forum twenty nineteen the laboratory for the digital age. Who are we following whom do we trust to debate and shape the future at the doj a valid Global Media Forum twenty nine t. The place made for minds. This week conflict zone is at the annual security conference in munich i meet plenty of recriminations and bad blood between europe and washington my guest here is jim risch chairman of the powerful Senate ForeignRelations Committee how damaging is this transatlantic divide and how committed is the Trumpet Ministration to nato. Jim risch welcome to conflict zone thank you very much like to be here all the latest polls show the french germans the british now regard the us as a greater danger to their interests than china which you regard as your prime danger how much blame do you think washington should take for that. Well. Sometimes events drive us in a direction that we shouldnt be driven. We. We dont feel the same way about our european friends or were more like kerry you know there are a lot of recriminations these days particularly over iran. In more regard to the round deal that europe continues to abide by sure the one that you get out of well we didnt walk out of it the president had states at that time barack obama entered
into that agreement. Over the objection of a lot of us it did not have the things in it that it needed to have and it was very weak it did indeed address one issue but i viewed the iran. Deal as a deal to try to discipline the bad boy in the classroom that was doing five bad things they addressed one of them but theyre trying to take one didnt they dressed one of them a big one they had dressed one of them but. The when when you have to deal with American Families whose kids have been killed by devices that were made in iran we consider that a big deal and i can guarantee you the families who have to deal with that loss consider that a very big deal and iran thumb their nose at us at you at the world and say were
going to kill you were going to consider that u. S. Senate or europe doesnt see it that way the fact is that as a signatory to the Nonproliferation Treaty Iran has pledged not to develop Nuclear Weapons ever full stop whats wrong with that well theres nothing wrong with that if they would clean up their act on Everything Else and would have agreed to the deal wasnt about Everything Else it was about this you know you can argue and they do that it wasnt a perfect deal and that it could have included other aspects in it but the deal itself pledges and they recommitted to this in the deal they suddenly j. C. B. Away never ever to produce he knew what i mean why they wont stop their terrorist activities and why they wont abide by the u. N. Resolutions those are things that those of us who disagreed with the agreement wanted in the agreement and if they werent willing to do that then we should have kept the pressure up on them ive i appreciate we have a disagreement there but nonetheless we feel very very strongly that iran was we had the opportunity to rain iran up in all the things that they were doing but
that was indeed a missed opportunity and we believe i hope you can do it i wish you all the best in the world that you can do it you respect your views of israeli view intelligence and military analysts on the suspect. Among the Intelligence Committee and i i have to respectfully decline to comment intelligence information im not going to have but their views on the iran Deal Commie Guillen for instance from the head of the Domestic Intelligence service the shin bet he said two years after the deal. Came into force while the majority of my colleagues in the Israeli Military and intelligence communities supported the deal once it was reached many of those who have major reservations now acknowledge it has a positive impact on israels security must be fully maintained well thats up to them were a sovereign nation and we are strong our lives with them were very strong allies with them well we consider the nurses of the danger than you are if there is
a danger but. I hope youre not suggesting that we have to agree. On everything because we will not agree on everything and i can tell you again we feel very strongly the iran issue and the fact that iran has got to behave itself and if it doesnt its going to continue to be under the pressure that the United States is going to bring from the sanctions that we are going to maintain in place and i hope yours is either going to cause a great a rift with europe because i dont think so. Youre on your or your a tone here is much different than what i get from the. And i meet every day. With ambassadors from europe and and they acknowledge that we have a disagreement in this regard but theyre not nearly as hostile as the questions that youre asking here today really i mean fairly federica more clearly for instance the e. U. Foreign policy chief said last year we cannot accept as europeans that others even our closest allies and friends to term and decide with whom we can do business with or trade she was talking about your assumptions well course telling you that your sways again as much as she can tell us to back up or were not going to. Marini also said it seems that screaming shouting insulting and bullying systematically destroying and dismantling everything thats already in place is the mood of our times this impulse to destroy is not the thing thats anywhere good its not solving any of our problems im with you i dont Think Yelling and screaming gets a say anywhere but on the other hand i think we have to have reasonable dialogue we consider ourselves strong allies of the europeans we want to remain that way but we have disagreements such as the the refusal to. Your refusal to abide by the agreements you made to. As far as nato is concerned thats
a disagreement that we have but is that going to. Is that going to dissolve nato of course not we view nato as the Strongest Military alliance that has ever ever been entered into in the world we want to maintain that alliance but again you talk about us now keeping our green went on iran there are members of the nato organization that arent keeping their agreements but lets lets talk lets talk a bit about that lets talk about that because at the Nato Summit In Brussels last summer mr trump claimed that for twenty seventeen the amount of money that other nato countries were spending on defense was going down and down very substantially that was what he said thats its Quote Simply Wasnt True was it i wasnt there so i dont know and i guess im not as they were wasnt sure because in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen nato europe and canada increase their Defense Spending by up to one
point eight three percent twenty fifteen three zero one four you agree with me though that they were keeping the commitments and only seventeen of the members were keeping the commitments we do agree with me on that the commitment was to get it up to two percent by twenty twenty four that was the commitment will know about twenty twenty four yet and it wasnt hard it was commitment to not try and attract it well i dont think you made when i was trying to try to get there and mr trump also made another the erroneous statement at the summit he said everyone has agreed to substantially up their commitment theyre going to up at the levels theyve never thought of before it was a troop. Its older president mark wrote to say theres a communique it informs the goal of two percent by Two Thousand And Twenty Four thats thats all thats all it is you know i came here to do an interview with you and i want to do an interview but i dont want to debate i dont do these in
washington d. C. And im not going to do it here but if you want to interview me ill be happy to do it im not going to debate with you well im asking you and your reaction to that because you said that my reaction you are of europe havent lived up to its commit it has not and are you trying to tell me that europe has lived up to its commitments under nato is that what youre trying to tell me because believe me there is no belief for that on anybodys part that some of the european nations are not living up to their commitments and indeed look ive done this for ten years ive come over here and tried to talk to nato countries into living up to their agreements they patted us on the head and said all well were on track to try to do this or try to do that i said i. Really give President Trump a lot of credit because indeed since hes been in office and since he has underscored this there are countries that are making much better efforts to live up
to their agreements and we look where allies here you and i are arguing like were on opposite sides need it was a is an alliance that we all belong thats a Great Alliance and the that we want to continue its in your best interests its in our best interest and argument can be made its even more in your interest because youre closer to the issue than we are and the the i. M. F. Is another issue that that we think that you have a great great stake in chancellor Angela Merkel said last year that there were good reasons to continue fighting for the transatlantic relationship but we have she added we cant count on it and the more. Well im sorry she feels like that we dont feel like that. You say that but a Bipartisan Group of lawmakers introduced a bill to prevent mr trump from withdrawing from nato without can grow congresss approval the press i dont believe the president s going to withdraw from nato be
a i have no reason to believe that hes going to withdraw from nato but this deal is a preemptive strike is it to prevent him from doing so obviously some people very political very political obviously very people in congress believe some people do believe seriously so theres a Five Hundred Thirty eight theres Five Hundred Thirty five members of congress and theres a belief for about everything in that Five Hundred Thirty five members ability but i dont look im chairman of the for the Relations Committee and im here to tell you we are committed to nato were going to continue to be committed to nato there is no feeling in the United States of america that we want to withdraw from nato just the opposite really and you can give that commitment sitting right here that mr trump the white house im not going to commit on behalf of mr trump youll need to talk but thats all about me not to give you a commitment i can give you. Now see that sentence again thats what matters at the end of the day no it does not trump now well it does not i always have difficulty
when im talking about the structure of our government with my european friends we are the first branch of government when the United States was founded the Founding Fathers wisely put together three branches of government coequal branches of government except that the first branch of government holds the Purse Strings and passes the laws the Second Branch of government mr trump cant pass any laws by the way im a friend of his he and i get along relatively well we have disagreements just like hes never talked to you about dumping nato he has never said to me that. He would dont need to lets talk about the us attitude to human rights because that as much as anything else appears to have changed with this administration the Munich Security Report that accompanies this this conference that you are here to attend the qs is the administration of displaying an irritating enthusiasm for strongman across the globe would you say that was for no. Im living in a post human rights world. No look were just like
our friends the europeans the germans all all our friends in europe we feel strongly about human rights its in our soul and its in our heart its in your soul and in your heart now do we always exist agree exactly of course not but human rights is always going to be at the top of the list of those of us who are part of Western Civilization is just the what he had the as you say that Rex Tillerson trumps first Secretary Of State Spelt out that there from messy said too often promoting our values as an obstacle to advancing of interest well you know that were its early human rights were not were not doing very well here why dont you ask me about how i feel on these issues instead of thrown at me quotes from other people i dont want to do this i really dont want to debate and i dont want to be here reacting to what other folks said ask me about human rights asked me about nato but asked me about it and how the United StatesForeign Relationscommittee of the United States senate feels about it and then they are going to and you and i are going to get along really well but you see why these comments well yeah but there is a gate here in europe and i could use the doubts about which direction the u. S. Is going to and im really sorry that we didnt have a good clear understanding more we started this i always do when i do this in d. C. I really want to do a good interview with you i want to tell you where i stand where the United StatesSenate Stands where our committee stands but youre asking me to defend all kinds of statements by other people and look at im just not there you need somebody else to to debate on this issue im not going to debate with you an issue but i really want to give you an interview on all the issues youve got on your paper about where i am where the United States senate is and where my committee is theres talk then about the attitude to saudi arabia of to the murder of jamal khashoggi. And the clear reluctance of the trumpet in the station to hold the saudi
crown prince. Look i just want to get lets talk about where i am lets lets talk about where i am satisfied let me that now youre satisfied let me tell you what the view of the United States senate and what our committee is on this the the murder was a despicable event it was something that the People Living in the twenty First Century cant tolerate its not the way human being should treat each other and as a result of that the United States has sanctioned seventeen people the been identified with it its an Ongoing Investigation of the crown prince response here its an Ongoing Investigation right now we on the. United states. Senate committee on Foreign Relations have just entered into negotiations further negotiations with the Intelligence Agencies to get the to get more information on
that look theres theres theres nobody i hope youre not thinking that theres somebody who that is soft on this the thinks that this is all right this is not all right the saudi arabia is a strong ally as are saying that but we heard the president say maybe he did it maybe didnt there. Look im not going to defend the president here you know if you wanted to interview him i can line up probably with some people who can see who you can do an interview on and you can crossexamine them all day long statements that the president has made tweeting and otherwise and youll have a long long interview and fine and that will be great asked me what were doing and how we look at this you should have. The Compromise Response of lindsays a really really good friend of mine. And i have had family and i have Hasnt Confidential Conversations on that there between he and i he is he is a he that. State senator and he wont tell me whether you agree with him or not and
what the fact that he says there are a zero chance that the killing of that without the princes not that well look he did you then ask him the evidence he had there are and i have said i knew it was so i have a very different yeah i went to a cia briefing well im on the Intelligence Committee lindsey is and i have looked at every scrap of evidence there is on that and unfortunately because of my position on Intelligence Committee i cant sit here and reiterate that for you and in that regard i cant comment on that but i can comment on the seventeen people that we have found to be responsible and that we have sanctioned lets talk about north korea since mr trump is soon to hold a summit with conjunction you suggested that he hasnt will see the president hasnt received enough credit for his efforts absolutely said the president singlehandedly back to some way from the cliff he has no credit for that yes he should you could argue the Single Handedly took you to the cliff edge didnt you know now that foreign fury i think of the world has ev