support of the population pretty fact quite the opposite breadth to hold virtually anything that's of the going to run into big problems. paul: the standard russian military doctrine is this compartment of cities but if you need to turn them enter rubble. they did in chechnya. they seem to be doing it and mariupol for their threatening to it i assume and kyiv. if that happens, they can, can't they dominate these cities? >> here is the problem they did this in sierra and cities like aleppo. but the maneuver element were actually not russian forces they were syrian unions they were militias that were recruited by the iranians from iraq, afghanistan palestinian territory and other places. and chechnya that was inside russia they could take high casualties. the russians have lost somewhere between five -- 6000 soldiers so