want them to succeed. but if they don't have strength and leverage behind that force, they fail. and what i don't see right now is any strength on leverage to the tough rhetoric is great, but if you don't have the action and the backing of the united states military and our nato allies behind it, it doesn't mean anything. >> sandra: i will end where we started. you said you believe that russian invasion of ukraine is likely, sir. with what sort of force should that be met? and do you believe our allies are completely on board? >> well, i don't think we will have any troops on the ground in ukraine. but we do have a presence with nato and our nato allied countries. that's the problem. what force will be used to meet a russian invasion? that is why we need the deterrents right now and not after an invasion happens. the reason why i'm concerned about the timing is because of the timeline in the plans